Integrated amp + DAC + room correction all-in-one for Nola Boxer 1 + REL R328 sub
Dear forum,
I’m looking to upgrade my integrated amp + external DAC source to an all-in-one integrated amp + DAC + room correction box. Budget to $2500, may stretch to $2800 if super-compelling.
I currently use a Creek 5350se integrated amp, with external DAC input from a Yamaha RX-V773 AVR (TI/Burr-Brown PCM1681 DAC chip on whatever circuit Yamaha cooked up).
Loudspeakers are Nola Boxer 1 on Dynaudio Stand 4, and REL R328 sub connected by Neutrix cable to main L/R binding posts on amp. Loongg runs of ProWire speaker and Neutrix cables through crawlspace to loudspeakers / sub.
Music = classical + opera, electronic, new & old rock, alternative, trap, house
Room is 18’ x 12’ x 13’h average ceiling height (2808 cu feet), hardwood floors, random furniture objects. Speakers 6’ apart, REL sub in corner to right of right speaker, listening position 8’ from center of speaker axis.
Requirements (but will flex if compelling):
one box, no separates: amp + DAC and ideally + room correction
ethernet-in on DAC circuit <= can be talked out of this if sensible alternatives
’classic’ & useful front-plate design <= no NuPrime IDA-16
simple, solid, non-stupid remote <= again, no NuPrime. Rogue doesn’t get hi marks here either
known affinity with Nola Boxer 1 a huge plus
Here are units I’m researching in DESC order of coveting-ness:
Hegel H190 <= yes $4K USD srp, will stretch to $2800 to buy used
Parasound HINT6 Halo <= ESS Sabre32 Reference ES9018K2M DAC, new product, no reviews/track-record. No ethernet-in either. Will stretch to $2800 for used ... and probly have to wait a long time for that.
Creek Evolution 100A <= no ethernet-in. Eventual poor reliability experience with my existing Creek 5350se, which used a lo-quality ALPS input switch, which is failing
Micromega M-100 <= will stretch to $2800 for used. No ethernet-in afaict.
Rogue Cronus Magnum II <= reviews suggest cheap-feeling remote. No ethernet-in.
Yamaha A-S801 <= ’budget’ solution at $900 USD, ESS Sabre ES9010K2M DAC circuit. Needs Yamaha wireless connector for ethernet-in. May not have room correction?
All helpful feedback appreciated including units I haven’t considered. Relatedly, I’m wondering how much I’d give up if I went the ’budget’ route (Yamaha A-S801).
Sorry to revive an older thread but I'm hoping folks subscribed to this discussion may have some insight...
I currently have a Hegel HD30 DAC, H30 amp, and Revel Concerta 2 F36 (the speakers may seem like the weak link, but they sound far superior to my ears compared to many other speakers I've had that cost multiples/thousands more... so I'm "dabbling" in Revel's entry level before deciding to move up the stack). Cables are various Ansuz (C2) and I'm using power conditioning. Digital front end is an Aurender 100 (USB-out only).
Here's my frustration... the system sounds incredibly high-resolution and nuanced, but yet lacks an organic musicality or "soul" that stops just shy of becoming emotionally involving. I suspect most of this signature is related to the digital front-end/DAC.
So I've been looking for a musical sounding DAC for some time but have been reluctant to buy blind... and also frustratingly most well-regarded DACs omit volume control which would necessitate the $$ purchase of a pre-amp (and additional pair of balanced cables).
So I'm theorizing... the Micromega M100 gives me several options... one of which is likely to improve sound quality along the lines I'm hoping for (more organic/musical/lush): A) use it as a pre-amp; B) use it as a DAC/Pre-amp; C) use it as a DAC/Pre-amp/amp. You get the ideal... basically it would allow me to see what changes in my system might move the needle of the sonic signature I'm after (DAC, Pre-amp, and even amp).
My goal is to get a dedicated streamer server like a Sony HAP 1zes or maybe an Auralic Altair with a hard drive. Seems like it would be easier to use. The Sony and Auralic have wifi
Thanks both. I've got good power from a Purepower 1050 and an Audience Powerchord I may use on it (if it will fit). Got Isoacoustics. I'll read up on Jriver. What I had read previously was that it wasn't very user friendly. My goal at the end of this is something my wife will want to use as well.
I am using an extender with one ethernet port to hook up the m 100 it doesn't have wifi. My wifi router is kinda old and I need to get a new one with ac ability but so far it works running jriver using gizmo as the app control. It isn't the best sound the cdp is a lot better. My computer is old as well and it doesn't run jriver that great it can freeze it up. With fairly new computer and a good ac router and extender it should work pretty good. I don't use a sub. Looks like the amp has a limit of 400 I think you control the crossover at the sub you can't set it higher than 400 is what I think that means. The android app for the m100 really sucks don't know about the iOS app. If you got the MARS correction it works really well at least in my sub optimal room. Took me two tries to get it right still might tweak a bit more, you need to run it each time you move the speakers around so try to get as good a sound as possible first.
Since this is turning into a Micromega M100/150 thread, I've got a couple questions as I'm contemplating setting up the M100 when it arrives. Let me know if I should start a Micromega M-One thread to make life easier.
For hooking up a subwoofer: They state the sub out has a 400 Hz low pass filter. Most subs seem to only be adjustable up to 160 Hz or so. Is there a gap there or don't I understand the low pass filter? I'll probably hook up the sub (Adire Audio Rava) at speaker output and fun my speakers full range to avoid this. But if there is an advantage to the sub out, I'd like to understand. Also, the online manual really doesn't go into network connections. The M100 doesn't have WiFi, correct? So it needs to be done by ethernet? My router is quite a ways away from the rig. Can I get a WiFi extender and run ethernet from that to the M100? Will I get better sound with a Mac Mini through USB? That will be kind of a pain because my library is on my main desktop and keeping the libraries synced may be difficult. Sorry for the basic questions, but I can at least spend the time waiting for arrival making sure I have the correct auxiliary components and cables. Thanks
benb: I haven't measured the front-to-back distance between the M-100's spiked feet - but with total case depth including rear overhang at ~ 13.78" (350mm), it will fit fine on a 15"d shelf. My M-100 sits on a bamboo 'butcher block' cutting board w/ dimensions 17"w x 13"d x 1.5"h.
... the overhang in the back is not user friendly
djones51: overhang is indeed unfriendly for monkeying with interconnects - but after initial hook-ups how often does one monkey with them?
I skipped the Isopods and used the aforementioned cutting board for 'isolation and damping'. You can find them at Ikea or on Amazon starting at around $20. Until I see measurements from credible experiments, and objective end-user feedback (even if it's about their 'subjective' experience), I'm wary of accessory and interconnect mumbo-jumbo.
I just bought a micromega m100 with mars. I haven't set it up yet only did all the updates it seemed easier doing those in my office next to the computer. I needed something with room correction, my listening room is now my living room since moving to a patio home. Looks like it might a bit of a pain to hook everything up the overhang in the back is not user friendly using some sort of isopods or something to raise it as audiotroy suggested looks advisable.The depth including the overhang on mine is 13 3/4 inches. Not sure if that would matter on a 15 inch shelf.
@usery - I'm jumping on the M100 bandwagon. One minor aspect I'm having no luck with is - will the feet fit on a 15" deep shelf? Simple question but very important for me to know :) Thanks for any help.
Yamaha and the more commercial sellers make good products, but their [sic] are better products out there at that price point, eg. Micromega.
wrt 'that price point', the Yamaha A-S810 is a sub-$1K amp. If you're finding the Micromega M-100 on sale at even remotely close to that price, well, don't wait.
I've always been interested in the MicroMega line, and many of their amps have been on sale the last year.
A reputable audio shop in San Francisco has been showcasing Micromega the last few years.
Glad the OP reached out to a new brand. Yamaha and the more commercial sellers make good products, but their are better products out there at that price point, eg. Micromega.
@audiotroy thanks for all the info and suggestions, and Thank You for supporting the thread and giving suggestions to the OP. Wish they would have bought the Micromega from y'all so that the members could support the vendors, since the vendors support Agon. happy listening everybody
benb - then your requirements were like mine when I first started shopping. I already had the sub piece solved (REL R-328 connected by Neutrik to L/R mains output). From advice on this thread I deferred room correction until later (and for my money Micromega’s optional MARS is overpriced). I took a chance on the M-100 and for me it's a winner, sonic performance being the most-important attribute. Network streaming, phono and all the rest are there too. Regrettably the Android control app is abysmally unstable - an actual embarrassment, if I were on that Micromega team.
No, I’m actually looking for two channel (plus sub), but it seems that the receivers that can do network streaming plus phono plus room correction mostly end up in the AV world.
Before I settled on the M-100 I too was looking 'downmarket', at the Yamaha A-S801 - though by design that unit is mostly committed to 2-channel stereo rather than the 'AV' of the Marantz nr1609. If AV is the feature set you're looking for, then the M-100 or A-S801 may not be the right fit.
Usery that is one reason we would have loved you getting the unit from us you would have gotten the guidance on how to setup the piece and we would have loved to earn your business.
You are using the Micromega the wrong way, Ditch the Chromcast.
Get a copy of Jriver and you can stream your library or streaming music directly to the M100, It works like a charm and the sound quality is great.
You can do full upconversion or DSD directly through Jriver and send the data stream via the etherne connection directly to the Micromega.
Also use a set of four Isoacoustics Pods for $20 each under all four sides, aside from sounding better it enables you to gain access to the cabling much easier.
Also please retire the belden the Wireworld Starlight is a huge improvement.
Also after a 100 hours the sound quality will be far better. and the Cullen cables are okay you can do way better.
We are so delighted that you are loving the M100 we have been championing the Micromega M100 and in our shop it is extremely hard to beat the combination of musicality, bass drive and impact and feature set for the price.
@usery Please don't resist the urge 'towards hyperbole.' It's tradition 'round these hallways. 😊
Your excitement was genuinely felt. That's great!!!
At some point, I recommend adding something like the Sonore microRendu (or equivalent USB in) or a device that allows you to go I2S direct or Ethernet direct (all with optimization for audio).
Keep us posted as you get to know your unit better. It's a terrific option for many, that doesn't get the airplay it deserves.
From an older thread... I meant to reply here. Apologies for double posting:
It’s worth mentioning that a Micromega rep (in Portland, OR) confirmed that the phono stage remains completely analog. There is no digital conversion.
Another post in this thread mentioned something about the number of inputs. Seems like a lot of folks are overlooking the XLR inputs. These are analog — so even without balanced cables, a XLR-male-to-RCA-female adapter gives a second analog input. In a home audition, there was no discernible difference in sound from the RCA analog input (same RCA cables coming from an Oppo 203). And if you have the 205 you have the option to go fully balanced (sadly, I do not). That plus a phono stage makes three analog inputs. Optical input for a BluRay player, USB input for a computer, and an Ethernet cable for any over the air play and network devices seems like a whole heck of a lot of options to me.
I believe the Micromega app has internet radio stations from all over the world and the same Micromega rep also confirmed Tidal is coming to the app within the next few weeks.
I spent a good amount of time with a demo unit and would be happy to answer any more questions!
@usery thank you! I hadn’t seen that one yet but I’ve been slowly making my way through all posted info... which seemingly is increasing. Incidentally, I posted a response on another thread that may be more appropriate here. I’ll copy and repost below.
For those interested
here's a preliminary report for my Micromega M-100.
These are initial impressions right after setup, with < 90
minutes of listening time. Thanks again to all for the insight
& comments.
Config:
Micromega M-100 (replaced factory power cable w/
slightly-better 14awg NEMA 'green-dot' hospital-grade pc. Cullen Cable Crossover Series pc ordered)
Nola Boxers v1 speakers on Dynaudio Stand 4's, via Straightwire Pro-12 spkr cables to M-100
REL R-328 subwoofer, via Neutrik cable to M-100 L/R binding posts
Denon DCD-815 cdp (redbook only) <= maybe upgrade, maybe not (rip all to flac, use UPnP over ethernet)
Audioquest Sydney rca interconnect (Denon cdp to M-100)
Google Chromecast Audio via cheap 3.5mm-to-toslink cable to M-100 optical in <= todo: upgrade toslink cable, power supply
Foobar2000 foo_upnp server/render for .flac to over ethernet
Belden MM07-BNTEC6 CAT6f patch cable from LAN hub to M-100 ethernet in <= token snake-oil interconnect
Listening log:
CD (redbook):
Pink Floyd - The Wall, Columbia UDCD 2-537
Crosby, Stills, Nash, Young - Déjà Vu, Atlantic SD19118-2
Beethoven - Violin Sonatas Op.12 No.s 1-3,
Naxos 8.550284
.flac (16/44.1 redbook to .flac via foobar2000 rip)
The Field - Looping State of Mind Remixe, Kompakt KOM 263
Chromecast Audio:
various - Spotify @ 320kbps
Physical:
1. Excellent, elegant appearance and build quality: case,
rear panel, front panel display. Rear of case design not the
friendliest / pragmatic-est (overhang constrains available
space for handling interconnects)
2. Remote exudes material quality but ergonomics and
usability are challenged: awkward one-hand operation due to
size, shape, weight & button layout. Maybe I just need to
practice.
3. Micromega M-One app for Android extremely unstable -
crashes frequently during operation. That's too bad: can't
reliably control the amp from beyond range of physical remote
(see #2). Haven't sent feedback to Micromega yet.
Sound quality:
In short: pretty f'ing good. No, really f'ing good.
Would not have believed it were I not hearing it myself.
Audiotroy was right. From entirely different galaxy than
Creek 5350SE. Not a fan of hyperbole - but what I'm hearing
puts me at risk of that. Or gushing overwrought, affected
descriptions of the gross and subtle effects of the amp. So I'll
stop with the narrative.
Interim verdict: so far, unmitigated victory for my
requirements. All-in-one that does it all, most importantly
kicking ass on sonic quality.
Absolutely interested too. I'm considering downsizing from separates. McIntosh C47 preamp plus Harman Kardon Citation II tube amp. I've been an audiophile for maybe 30 years, just considering simplification - if the sound is right! Thanks.
Hey Usery, Let us know how you like the M100, use a set of Isoacoustic footers and a good power cord and you will be loving the sound it is so musical.
Wish you would have contacted us about the piece we are very knowelgable about the M100 as we were one of the first displaying dealers for the product.
Good luck and burn it in well.
You can use Roon to control it via the airplay tab on Roon.
Thanks to all who piped up with suggestions/guidance. After more research, reflection and attachment I've pulled the trigger on a Micromega M-100 (w/o room correction - that was an additional ~$900 USD).
If anyone's interested I'll report back once the M-100 is settled in and hummin' (figuratively).
The Micromega is our favorite integrated amp for the price and this is among a staple of the Naim products, the Anthem STR, the NAD M32, and a few others. The Naim Nova is one step up but we are comparing a $4.5k integrated vs a $7,500.00 one as we only have the the entry level M100 on display.
The M 100 sounds lush in the midrange, and soundstages superbly, the amp is very involving, and the bass is deep and punchy.
The Micromega just sounds musical in a way that few integrated amplifiers for the price can do. The Class A/B amplifier is a marvel of compact design, the fans are compact industrial grade fans that are used for long duty cycles cooling computers,they are very quiet and quite effective at lowering the unit’s temparate, couple that with an aluminium chassis which acts as a giant heat sink this video shows you the brilliant packinag job that the Micromega engineers did to accomplish this form factor: https://youtu.be/rbYNri1Wetk
Here is a review of the bigger brother the M150 which you can see the reviewer adored ,the M150 adds 50 watts of juice a beefier power supply and includes the room correction kit.
I know some people here are loving the Lyndorf products, however, we are not so enamoured with Class D amplification, except for a few standouts, naimly the Nuprime gear, and I am sure the Lyngdorf sounds clean and effortless but does it offer the same musicality?
The Micromega offers one incredible feature set:
: 1: Native High resolution PCM up to 768k plus Quad Rate DSD 2: Analog inputs 3: Phono stage 4: Headphone playback 5: Class A/B amplifier 6: Slim form factor 7: Plenty of digital and analog inputs 8: Ethernet jack 9: Appple Airplay 10: Blue tooth 11: Room Correction 12: Software upgradable 13: Roon playback via airplay 14: Internet radio and control app, 15: Subwoofer output
When you add all of these factors the Micromega product is pretty unique.
I i recently bought a Lyngdorf 3400 to replace a Mark Levinson amp and preamp and high end DAC. Couldn’t be happier. The Room Correction is awesome, plenty of power for PSB Imagine T3s. Pretty amazing product.
...my advice is to save up for the right-for-you and 'long lasting' solution... ... 3X your budget (given the current offerings). Further, since a LAN input is a requirement...the upside of waiting is (in the future) more options to choose from.
david_ten, thank you for more insightful feedback. Indeed, you've talked me into waiting and saving up for the right all-in-one in this lifetime.
And for the next lifetime? Hoping not to be so attached to objects ; )
@audiotroy i too am very interested in the Micromega and have few, if any reservations, including longevity (as mentioned above), but also the fact that there is class a/b amplification (heat?) in such a small package. i understand there's a fan inside? how does this work? is it always on? does it turn on only when needed? i imagine the amp must get very warm... does the fan affect sound quality?
a couple of other questions (that i can't seem to find answers to online):
-do all input analog signals (RCA/Phono) get converted to digital and then reconverted back to analog? if yes, i'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on pros/cons of this.
-what's the amp's capability of max current? for example, the HALO is 45 amps/ch!!
-how is the phono stage? would it be appropriate for a 2-3k turntable?
-i've seen on other forums that the m100 carries a 10-year warranty but have been unable to verify this on the manufacturer website -- can you confirm/deny?
-lastly, you mention the m100 just "got a rave review." can you post a link or send a PM? thanks!!
it goes without saying but i'll say it anyway: it's invaluable to have someone on these forums with access and insight to a very sophisticated product. one that will undoubtedly pave the way for more compact and sleep all-in-one packages! thanks in advance for taking the time to read my questions and, if you are so inclined, for responding for the benefit of all interested.
I'd like to get this phase of my audiophile OCD over with in one shot, and not mosh about it any further in this lifetime.
Thanks for your direct response. Since you would like to be one-and-done, my advice is to save up for the right-for-you and 'long lasting' solution.
Given your current budget, you will be leaving too much off the table (my opinion).
My target for what you are trying to accomplish, would be 3X your budget (given the current offerings). Further, since a LAN input is a requirement...the upside of waiting is (in the future) more options to choose from.
If you need to make a decision now (at or just above your budget) I'd forego Room Correction and Ethernet In for an integrated with DAC option/module.
OP I too was initially concerned on what I termed low power rating of the 2170, after all I was moving from a BAT VK-600SE which was 300w x2 at 8 ohm! I need not have worried at all although the only speakers I have driven have all been fairly benign loads, electrostatics maybe a little more challenging. 95db room level volume is VERY easily achieved...lol
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