Innuos owners. Chime in

I am an AQ guy.

So, AQ Diamond for USB.

AQ Storm Series for Power cords.

Very happy with the results.

B

@carlsbad2

I am going along with @antigrunge2 :-

"Innuos is deliberately designed with a low power, low noise CPU. Roon however puts heavy demands on the CPU through DSP and other features, so it fundamentally follows a different design philosophy. Hence the better sound from Sense on Innuos equipment."

If you don’t hear a difference, it doesn’t mean there is no difference. To each his own, as always. 

@antigrunge2 : yes of course. I compare it all the time. And yes, you are right. Majority of albums & times Sense sounds better than Roon, but not shockingly so. To my ears. I use Sense when I really want to focus. But most of the time, Roon. Due to unparalleled user experience, as well as library management & navigation. I have put a lot work with Roon and my music library over the past 5+ years since I purchased the Roon lifetime subscription. But yes, I am aware 

@jon2020 

I agree with your thought that "maybe it is just you".  There is a lot of room for personal prefernce in this hobby.  I respect your choice.

I find no difference in the sound as both of them have the primary function of telling the streamer which song to play.

So I'm not sure why you feel the need to proselytize so much for Sense.

Jerry

@thyname 

In your setup it should be easy to compare Sense to Roon. You might find that Sense sounds materially better.

My Innuos ZENith MK3 acts as both my Roon Core and as Roon Endpoint (streamer to DAC via USB) and works great with no issues. For more than two years now. With a fairly sizable music library in its SSD (about 1.4 TB). However, I don’t do DSP on Roon. So here is that 

@carlsbad2

Thanks for the reassurance but maybe it’s just me as I really do like the Sense interface. So less is just more in terms of fewer circuits and cables.

Cheers!

@jon2020 roon works great with innuos.  Roon has forever said the CORE needs to be on a stanalone component.  The guy in your thread has it installed onboard the streamer and is having problems.  During the time that he was complaining about I had ROCK installed on a Standalone NUC and had no problems on my Innuos Zenith Mk3.

Jerry

Many thanks

@antigrunge2

The current version of the Sense app allows you to clear your queue cache without going through service personnel.

Clearing the queue cache is like clearing the cache of your computer or phone. It regularly frees up memory hogged by older tracks in the queue.

As your current playlist gobbles up RAM, removing old tracks from RAM to get new tracks ready for playing improves SQ.

Hope this helps. :)

@jon2020 

Care to elaborate on benefits of queue cache clearing? It is per Innuos reserved for service personnel and I don’t understand why it would improve SQ

Roon vs Innuos Sense app :-

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/having-problems-with-roon-with-innuos-zenith/169710

Roon does not seem to synergise with Innuos. 

@antigrunge2

Innuos is deliberately designed with a low power, low noise CPU.

Hence the better sound from Sense on Innuos equipment.

+1.

The Sense app has 2 great features that also optimise SQ - Offline mode and Queue cache clearing.

Innuos is deliberately designed with a low power, low noise CPU. Roon however puts heavy demands on the CPU through DSP and other features, so it fundamentally follows a different design philosophy. Hence the better sound from Sense on Innuos equipment.

@carlsbad 

I have read that SQ is optimal with the Sense app instead of with Roon. If you have compared both on SQ alone, you will know if SQ is really any different. Roon interface is of course a big plus that may negate any subtle SQ differences.

Low current so any good power cord is adequate.  Good internet is key.  I use a silver plated internet cable (lots available).  

I don't use their ap, I use roon.

Looking at adding a phonenix external clock and perhaps a phoenix switch, both of which I hear good things about. 

Jerry

@jred

Just wondering how you are coming along with your Zen Mk 3. I am enjoying mine very much with a Shunyata digital power cord and Shunyata usb cable. And the Sense app is just wonderful with all functions at your fingertips. Cheers!

Enjoy the music. Jon.

Is there any site/forum that has the best, most active Innuos discussion? Like talking about issues, updates, etc?

hopefully not Facebook as I don’t use or have a FB account (purposely)

I’ve been reading about the Innuos Phoenix USB component lately. The results seem to be all over the map with some reporting a noticeable improvement while others didn’t notice much of a difference. Obviously a lot depends on the rest of the chain. One person reported that adding the Phoenix to his Zenith MK3 closed the gap considerably between the Zenith and Statement. According to him, Statement was still superior but the Phoenix goes a long way in improving an already excellent streamer/server. On the other hand, one youtube reviewer (13th Note Hifi Reviews) didn't find it impressive.

At first, the price seemed rather steep for what it is but after I started to factor in the alternative -- switches (like Etherregen), LPS, reclocker (with its own LPS), power cords, connectors, etc., the Phoenix suddenly does not look so bad. Plus it’s all packaged in a nice tidy single box that will aesthetically match my Zenith MK3.

I would appreciate it if someone who has tried the Zenith + Phoenix combo can chime in. Also, I completely understand that the Phoenix is not a transformative, magical product in the sense that it will turn a frog into a prince. It will improve upon an already great baseline. But still I’d love to hear from folks with first hand experience.

@thyname Agreed. To live in the moment. Though I do not want to be penny wise dollar foolish. Purchasing, Then to resell later to Zenith status could potentially transpire. In attempt I’m trying to future proof the system. Yes. There will always be the next best thing especially in the digital realm.

Pass xa-25... I don’t see that moving anytime soon. Unless I can audition a 30.8 for a week straight with no financial consequence.

The Herron linestage has held its ground, Yes. I’d love to get the 360. Though its still doing a excellent job.

Digital front end as we all know is the equivalent of driving a new car off the lot.

To continue. Here is an interesting example of how we all might have wasted time and money. Tried a carbon usb. Thought it was ok. Though lacking. Went for a Twl usb cord. Not the best match. Though better.. Before both USB cords purchased Curious was on my list. Though at that time. One would rarely see a used in the wilds. Finally obtained a used curious and I’m content. Standard audiophile nervosa of questioning a first / second tier product to another. I’d rather just make one purchase and be done with it.

I’ve noticed many on this thread started with a mini or a zen, and went up the chain. Yes. You learn alot from plug and play. Though at the same time. Why potentially avoid the inevitable.

For myself there has to be a balance of obtaining equipment. Though at the same time balancing that with building a physical library. I usually purchase two albums a week ( cd/vinyl/lossless ) to keep things fresh.
It is not just owning the equipment. We all know this, but listening to old and new music to appreciate what we have in conjunction with our library. I am about 3,000 deep with vinyl, and approximately 2000 in cds..Just like the rest of the folk here

Sometimes I wish my Mom never introduced me to Coltrane when I was 5 years old. I would have been happy with insipid top 40 music. Played lossy on a soundbar.... ha! Yes. We all can be snobs. I’m simply transparent regarding that factor.

I am myself guilty of impatience @jred , but I think you are a little ahead of yourself as you have yet to receive your ZEN. Just take your time, enjoy what you (will) have, then proceed with upgrades down the road if so inclined, curious, and if budget allows. The ZEN will undoubtedly be a very substantial upgrade as a server / streamer compared to a general purpose computer. You are doing everything possible to prepare for it, including getting the cables and peripherals, thinking about wiring, and so forth. Sometimes we just have to learn to be happy, even for just a while, and enjoy what we have, without thinking too much for what can be better, woulda shouldas

I'm hoping the sound will be better with the Zen mk3. The MacBook pro is a little dry on the highs. Though all other aspects of SQ are really good!

I have a Zenith MK2 sitting on Ingress Engineering roller blocks.  I'm using it with a 0.6m Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 USB cable into a Matrix X-SPDIF 2 and a 0.7m i2s cable into my PS Audio DSD DAC.

I've been using Roon for a number of years; I think Sense SQ is much better in every respect.  I'm disappointed with the Sense to Tidal integration because few of my personal playlist were ported over, and some of the Tidal playlists don't show up correctly.  On the other hand, all of my Qobuz playlists were ported over.  

For critical listening in my basement music room, I use Sense.  I run Roon core from a mac-mini for whole house and backyard stereo, and when I want to listed to one of my Tidal playlists in my music room.  

Sense integration issues aside, I'm quite happy with my Zenith setup.

I am using a Frey 2 power cord and a Tyr 2 usb with a Zen 3 and Line Magnetic DAC.

The sound is good but not as good as my analog system

@thyname ... good information. I noticed Esoteric, and T&A as your system. The statement would obviously be a good match.

Thread is getting a bit long so I’ll mention again.

Pass Labs xa-25

Herron line stage VTSP-3A RO-3

Schitt Yggdrasil

The Zen mk3.. not Zenith will be replacing my MacBook pro as server/ripper.. Considering the listed components will the Zen be a good match, or perhaps cross over to a Zenith. Without the Phoenix. My budget allows me to go so far. Zenith might be a squeeze of a purchase.

J

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/zavfino

@jred Zavfino cables are truly outstanding cables at a very affordable price. There is very popular thread in here on Zavfino. I have owned many cables over the years, from almost all most popular brands in existence. I know exactly what I say. Of course for my ears only.

The first time around with MK3 series at launch, I briefly had the Zen MK3. It had a defect, so I swapped to Zenith MK3 with my dealer. Then several months later, I upgraded to the Statement. The Statement is obviously very good, but IMO the Zenith was plenty good, and the sweet spot in the lineup. I also had the Phoenix USB for a brief period before the Statement upgrade. Good stuff. And the support from Nuno at Innuos is outstanding 

@thyname - interesting cables. Thank you for the mention.  What was your prior innuos?

After 3 hours of respected recordings, and poor recordings as used for reference. The shunyata was pulled... it might be great for a sprout... Though it does not bring any improved dynamics in my apartment. 
 

I know all settles within 24 hours though the veiled highs were frustrating  I wanted to turn off the system. Switched the Synergistic Research 12 AWG Foundation power cord. Immediate difference.  The cables are broken in already. I don't think I would have heard much difference within the next 20 hours...

Back to the main topic at hand. My router is about a good 17 feet from my system. I could build a mesh network. Though I don't like repeaters near my living room nor bedroom for a multitude of reasons. 
 

I'll have to neatly run the cat 6E in the kitchen through the wall into my living room. What we do for the pursuit,,,,,,

I guess it was more feasible to attain the Zenith then to add the Phoenix?

J

I am getting a Zenith MK3 next week. This is my second foray with Innuos. I did it again this time intrigued by the new Sense app, and the reported improvements it brings to the SQ vs. Roon. Will see.

I plan to use a Zavfino Prima MK2 power cord for it, and Zavfino Majestic USB cable. Already at hand. My Ethernet switch is Ediscreation Silent Extreme

I just received from the cable company library system

Shunyata Research Digital V14 Venom powercord

Synergistic Research 12 AWG Foundation powercord

Since the Zen has not arrived yet, I’ll be testing these on my DAC,, I’ll note some impressions after a couple of dsys..

@chorus - thanks you for the kind words. What Streamer are you considering at the 8k mark?

@antigrunge2 the Nordost Brahma locks quite impressive. I saw one used for around 500.00 

At this point of time the Shunyata is within the chain. After an hour it reached room temperature. Opened up a little bit.. though it’s beyond dark. Very recessed as I had suspected. Though I’ll give it 24 hours with reference tracks. I’ll try best to keep an open mind...

J

What is phenomenal?  The cables or the Zen mkIII?

I have the Zen MK III and love it.

I use the AudioQuest Diamond and the $400 GR-Research power cable.  It's phenomenal for the price and you can return it if you don't like it.

Jred,

How do you make the 3 in mk3 show up 1/2 way dropped from the line?

Thanks

I am glad I did not overspend on my Streamer as there is already one out I would love to own. At $8k I will wait for a resale though.

Jred,

Your system sounds great. I use the INT25.

One more issue to mention: I strongly suggest you run your InnuOS server’s output at <94%. The server has very high output voltage and at 100% puts most amplifiers' inputs into overdrive resulting in an unneccessarily edgy and brittle SQ, particularly on more recent recordings.

For what it's worth I have had superb customer support from Innous overseas and their domestic dealer.

Sorry to say this, but to my knowledge, there is no Bluetooth and you can only communicate via Ethernet (and indirect via WLAN). And of course USB data stream. So your tablet can communicate via WLAN and your server has to have some Ethernet connection which has to be connected to the WLAN.

There is an offline mode for the server, which seems to only block communication from the server to external sources on the Internet. So you can play without Internet connection, but you should know the IP address in your network and this network has to be active.

And the biggest disappointment might be, that you cannot just play music from the Innuos server to your iPad. It is supposed to have one defined player (your DAC) via USB. There is an option to access from sources like iPad, TV or whatever via UPnP .... sorry, am not a specialist for this.

Usually, you will connect to your NAS (network attached storage = file service) like this (UPnP) for playing music.

Hope somebody else can tell you more. I just use with my DAC ...

Good luck. Don’t be disappointed, if it works in a different way, than you expected, but it is definitely an excellent device for what it was intended for by the designer.

Congrats with the Statement!  I think most would be quite content with a Zenith. I would like to preface that I'm completely new to servers/streamers... I do know that when you are importing music. To obtain the artwork, and other data you must connect the Zen to the lan.Ethernet. Rj45.  Though what I'm most curious about. Once all is imported, playlist set. Can I use my tablet to interact with the Zen to listen to specific tracks.. withouth being connected to the internet?  Like I had mentioned. I very rarely use any streaming services at home. 
 

If not connected to the internet. Does the tablet connect via Bluetooth to select music that's already installed.  I could care less at the moment if tidal  is not connected. I'm hoping to have basic connectivity between tablet and server. Without having a cat 6 being constantly utilized just to select imported / ripped music. 
 

J 

I jumped from Zenith MK3 to Statement. A reasonable step in between should be the Phoenix, but considering more cables and extra outlets and just lucky money on hand, I followed my dealers advice :) The jump is very large .... not only the price!!!

Ran it with Roon until Innuos started with the 2.0 software. Roon definitely wins in connection to other music via text and links, creating an extension of your musical knowledge and enjoyment. Innuos is ok for connections to all sources (internal disk, Qobuz, Tidal, Internet Radio) and has a good generic search machine. But I would have stuck with Roon, if the sound quality of the Innuos software was not so much better ... using internal hardware features, which Roon ignores. Am still afraid, that the Innuos software will get to be a similar disaster like the Melco was. So far, they are somewhat excused due to the éarly stage. But their service responses were not existing for me and I still have problems :(

And yes, it the Innuos server will get better over a few weeks burn-in, which is much easier with 24/7 than amps or speakers :) ENJOY !!!

I am using Tellurium Q Ultra Silver USB and LessLoss powercable and LessLoss device feet "Bindbreakers"

@chorus

only 2,849! Insert sarcasm. That tends to be the median price these days.

I think I will be the minority where I will not be streaming on this unit. Strictly rips and lossless files.

Current system....
Pass Labs xa-25

Herron line stage VTSP-3A RO-3

Schitt Yggdrasil - would like to obtain a Briscati M3

Aci Saphire XL stand mount speakers. I had the Special 40’s. I thought they sounded like a warm marshmallow. Too much speaker resonance. Lack of proper bracing and too light in weight. The speakers that I use are over 14 years old. If not more and are over 22 pounds each. A very inert / solid speaker.

Quite a modest system. Though proud to have acquired what I utilize so far.

The Zen Mark 3 will be replacing a MacBook Pro.

I have owned the model you are buying since 1/21.

Paid $2,200 new for mine. How much are they now?

Tips above are good.

I use a Shunyata USB connector. $150?

Main issue for you is using a hardwired CAT 6-8 line.

Or better is fiber optical.

No WiFi.

I bought the Uptone Audio Etheregen $600 and it improved SQ

Nicely. Hot little sucker though. I expect it to burn out in a year or 2.

Break in should be 100-200 hours.

What is your DAC/Speakers/etc?

Lots of great info here! I’ll start stock first. Provide good isolation and a good PC. Then next step might be a used phoenix. I hardly stream. Though something to keep in mind. Thank you!

I think after anything after the carbon series is quite good. Congrats ! 
 

Dealer lended Audioquest's Vodka and Diamond ethernet cables. Shocking but Diamond's better sound quality was easy to hear. Melco audio switch and Innuos USB reclocker both improved sound quality too, but in my ecosystem, the Melco switch improved sound quality more. 

I have a Zen Mini Mk3 with LPSU, using Transparent High Performance Ethernet, Power Cord, and USB cables along with isolation from HRS. The Innuos Sense App works well and sounds great.

Ok. Yes. That is in the App Store. The abbreviation used threw me off. Thanks much,,, 

has anyone changed the fuse. The store is recommending it. I'm like.... no...

Also AFAIK, Sense is in fact Innuos’ in house app provided free of charge.

Did you search for 'Innuos Sense'? I can easily find it this way. 

I just found out from the sales team whom is selling the unit states about two weeks 24/7 for full break in. I’ll just put a playlist on repeat.

What I find hard to fathom.. it’s 2021 and jitter has not been eliminated yet? I’ll be running the Zen into a Yggdrasil. Both units have an isolated/dedicated USB port. From what I understand digital music was never meant to be played via usb. The intended standard was Spdif. Supposedly in order for the Yggdrasil - for best sound quality. Aes / Usb / Spdif .. that order leaves me beffudled by the engineers at Schitt. As a counterpoint. If both units have an isolated / specialized usb input, Then why have recloclers? The phoenix makes a bit of sense with the LPS. Though I feel for the price it should have offered 3 outputs. Aes, Spdif, and Usb. I2S as a special bonus. Ha! Oh wait I2S will come with the phoenix 2.........

For the life of me I fail to find the sense app for iOS. May someone provide a link please. How does sense rival the Innuos in house app?

Thanks again,

J