@ctsooner ,
How much of a difference is there
between the
non-CT Treo's and your CT Quatro's?
Bob
How much of a difference is there
between the
non-CT Treo's and your CT Quatro's?
Bob
Initial impressions of my new Vandersteen Quatro's in Audi Havana Black
I will post pics when I get more time on them. I had them delivered and set up by Johnny Rutan of Audio Connections. He moved them out to the corners of the room and close up against the back wall. I love the look as does my wife. I also LOVE the HUGE soundstage these things can now throw. NO SUCK OUT either. I was shocked at that aspect. I was scared to death when he started them in the corner of the room. I have a very difficult room for bass as it's an open floor plan. I lose a lot of bass on the right channel as it's by a stair case. I'm putting up a temp wall by the railing. I am using a screen right now, but I need treatment of some sort still.
That said, it only has about 30 hours or so and it's already starting to sweeten up. I'm hearing so many things that I haven't heard in the room before. I'm hearing bass passages that hasn't been there before. On one passage of a Bela Fleck song, the room just moved. The thing is that I've heard so many of these songs on Wilson's and Magico's and B&W"s and Focals, Paradigms, Legacy's and so many other speakers, but the tonality of the Vandersteen bass is just special. It's so accurate. What so many don't know is that the way he designed the bass amp, you still have the same sound as YOUR main amp. Not sure how he does it, but he does. You don't hear the difference.
I think that the reason some don't get the Vandersteen's at first listen is because it's not like other speakers. We aren't used to hearing a speaker that isn't 'hifi' sounding. Its very organic. To me, it's like analog vs digital. Both can sound GREAT, but digital is still digital and that's why vinyl and reel to reel are still going strong after all of these years. Kind of reminds me of a plasma TV vs the LCD TV's when I went to purchase mine. I was originally taken by the brightest TV's in the showroom, but I keep going back and watching all the Plasma's in the darker room that Magnolia was showing them in. I wanted the Pioneer, but could only afford the Panasonic's. I have two of them and love them. People actually ask me why their TV doesn't look as good. I first ask if they had it calibrated professionally. The answer is always no and then tell them it's a plasma.
Set up isn't fun for me, so Johnny does it for me. I'm digging my new set up and will write more later, but i am Jonesing to go up to the loft to listen some more. I'm really loving the organic sounds of my system right now. All genres too which is just awesome. Not taking any digs at others systems, just loving mine. We all hear differently and I get that.
That said, it only has about 30 hours or so and it's already starting to sweeten up. I'm hearing so many things that I haven't heard in the room before. I'm hearing bass passages that hasn't been there before. On one passage of a Bela Fleck song, the room just moved. The thing is that I've heard so many of these songs on Wilson's and Magico's and B&W"s and Focals, Paradigms, Legacy's and so many other speakers, but the tonality of the Vandersteen bass is just special. It's so accurate. What so many don't know is that the way he designed the bass amp, you still have the same sound as YOUR main amp. Not sure how he does it, but he does. You don't hear the difference.
I think that the reason some don't get the Vandersteen's at first listen is because it's not like other speakers. We aren't used to hearing a speaker that isn't 'hifi' sounding. Its very organic. To me, it's like analog vs digital. Both can sound GREAT, but digital is still digital and that's why vinyl and reel to reel are still going strong after all of these years. Kind of reminds me of a plasma TV vs the LCD TV's when I went to purchase mine. I was originally taken by the brightest TV's in the showroom, but I keep going back and watching all the Plasma's in the darker room that Magnolia was showing them in. I wanted the Pioneer, but could only afford the Panasonic's. I have two of them and love them. People actually ask me why their TV doesn't look as good. I first ask if they had it calibrated professionally. The answer is always no and then tell them it's a plasma.
Set up isn't fun for me, so Johnny does it for me. I'm digging my new set up and will write more later, but i am Jonesing to go up to the loft to listen some more. I'm really loving the organic sounds of my system right now. All genres too which is just awesome. Not taking any digs at others systems, just loving mine. We all hear differently and I get that.
140 responses Add your response
Bob, for 7k more or so, it's a huge difference. By upgrading to the built in subs, you get a much much more dynamic system with huge depth and it frees up my amp so it only has to handle 100hz on up. It's a killer speaker AND it makes the amp better. I personally love an active system if implemented properly. Doesn't mean that all active systems are great as some I've heard are still too bright for my ears or when done in the digital domain, it masks the sound a bit and throws it off. This is why I personally don't like speakers like Persona and some others that are using DSP. I have personally never heard any DSP sound as good as without. Bottom line is that it's smoother and more natural. Those Treo's you have are outstanding. The tweeter difference is big, but in an incremental way not a night and day per say. |
To be fair Treo are like 3x the best model 2 but the basic Vandersteen design tenets are alive and consistent thru the line: first order filters for time / phase accuracy minimum baffle easy load - no bizarre phase angle or impedence drivers are highly pistonic no ringing in the audible range of the driver / filter time aligned cabinet resonance well controlled gets better as you go up the line |
@gdnrbob, he probably was using a typical receiver of the day (2CH, maybe 60wpc max, power supply the size of a pack of cigarettes, if that). I was using real power on my Vandersteen 4's (100 wpc tube amp on mids + treble inputs) & a 200 wpc SS amp on the input for the subs. It got really loud & dynamic, for sure. Still, I never managed to make those speakers sound 2-dimensional, hard, bright, brittle, "accurate," or any of those code-words for unmusical. They always breathed and made music sound quite real. My technician friend was no doubt used to systems that rattled his privates (boom, boom) and razored his ears off. The 4's could shake the walls, but neither the 2C's nor the 4's were going to become treble cannons. |
Dentdog, placement of the Vandersteen semi actives are very very easy. That's why I needed the Quatro. The bass has that eq and it allows you to set them up where they sound best and then you dial in the bass. It takes a little time, but it's fairly easy (with two people it's quicker) and sounds GREAT. Huge difference in a difficult room like mine. |
@gdnrbob, Just to build to @ctsooner's response, upgrading from the Treo to the Quatro CT's is more than just a "speaker upgrade". It's really a system upgrade. Sure, it *is* a better speaker, but you're also now 1) bi-amping your speakers, 2) inserting a pair of powered subs into your room, and 3) EQ'ing those subs to match your listening environment. Most audiophiles upgrade their speakers because they want better sounding speakers - and are willing to pay big bucks for that betterment alone. But with the Quatro CTs, you're also making your amps sound better AND your room sound better. When you take all things into consideration, the price difference between the Treos and the Quatro CTs is easily justifyable. |
Thanks nrenter, tomic and Ctsooner. My question regarding the upgrade to Quatro's should have included my use of the Vandy 2w's with ct's Treo's. Though I don't have the 'q' factor, I am getting much of the bass that the Quatro would provide- just not as much ability to configure the bass to my room. I doubt I will be upgrading for a while ( or at least until ctsooner sells me his Quatro's, ;) ). My current configuration gives me all that I want. Bob |
CT iF I move to a crappy thin wall condo you can juice yourself into mine.... all this talk talk has me thinking the Apogees need to go and put a set of Quattro Wood in the gun room... You can imagine the VERY long pause when I told RV about hauling them out of storage for background music in my hunting and fishing room.... he grumbled a bit and said well you should have just bought a pair of thirty year old Dynaco A-25 i always do listen to him, so I did... they are crap - out in the garage as third string... |
@gndrbob, I agree that RV has a great ear but others do so as well. I have been a 15 year Alon/Nola customer and have been perfectly happy. I have recently purchased a pair of Genesis 500 speakers and all 3 highlight that particular designers attributes and each sound different but in no way less musical. The Genesis with the servo bass, titanium mid-range drivers and ribbon tweeters is hard to top in that regard, the Alon/Nola with the AlNiCo magnet drivers is an absolute delight on the ears. The Quartos compete on the same level but with the added benefit of the bass equalization. I listen to each for hours on end and feel no less connected to the music. The Quatros do present a certain organic wholeness but so do the Alons but in a different manner. I listened to Vandersteens for quite a few years and always came away wanting to buy but never pursued the option until recently with the purchase of the Quotros and I couldn't be happier. I'm running the Quotros with 30 watts of class A power and they sound great, the Alons are powered by a Mac MC 275 and the Genesis get a bridged Rotel HT amp at the time. I may move the 500's in place of the Alons, they may not work in a vinyl system due to the servo woofers but I'm willing to give it a shot. |
Thanks ct, I have never used a Class A amp, so I really shouldn't remark on power, but I feel, despite the powered bass, the Quatro's could use a bit more power than 30wpc. I have to say that the Atma's really provide me with the most clarified sound I have ever heard.- Hence, my rec to use the Mac. Bob |
@ctsooner - Trust me, 30 watts of Pass Labs Alpha 3 current is plenty! It will shake the room at elevated volume with no problem and my ears give out way before the amp does. @gndrbob - Never heard of Alon or Nola? I find that hard to believe as they have had a prominent position in the high end audio market for more than 25 years... |
Musicman - how cool that we get to enjoy a bunch of musical gear!! i think with the powered bass and low pass filter the need to really big power might be somewhat overstated.... having it is good. I ran the 7's in my medium size room and at moderate volume levels ( which is most of my critical listening ) with an ARC 75 SE. 30 Watts of Pass power is different ! When my Ayre died and I was considering an upgrade to twenty I flirted seriously with picking up the 60 watt Psss monoblocks.. i do like Ike the idea of trying the MC275, just make sure you adjust the filter dip switches for the amp AND experiment with which output tap sounds best ! I ran my model 5a for many months with a 1961 MC240 in a massive room - glorious midrange...before I got the Ayre... |
Tom, I don't know many who ever tax that amp. lol...even the engineer of another super amp (don't have permission to use his name, but their mono's double into like 1 ohm) was telling me that it's got as much headroom as any of the super amps costing a ton more. Well engineered gear should work like that. |
Bella Fleck Dire Straits Private Investigator and Telegraph Road are well recorded tracks and I love the songs. It shows off how fast the mid range driver is. That's the actual foundation of that fast upper and mid bass that we love in a 'fast' speaker. So many don't realize that the mid is so important to set up everything else. That's why it's even more critical than the tweeters, but so many other companies just sell us on their tweeter or their metal or plastic cabinets etc... To me, this is why I love the Vandersteen line as it's like a point source and the cohesion is there that it missing on so many of the other major players/names to MY EARS. Not putting others down as some folks loved the others. It's all good as long as we are happy. We do need to talk about favorite recordings and the emotions they bring us. That's why I think so many audiophiles care a bit more about components than the music. Since getting the Quatro's I am now listening to a lot of high res, well recorded orchestral music I never would have listened to. It was on my server when I purchased it and was used in demonstrations for Empirical Audio at their shows (if you ever heard their rooms, you probably have heard my personally server, lol). I think it's because I now know what it's like to have a true full range speakers. I know the 5 and 7 take that to a bigger and deeper level and it's just so important when listening. |
CT check out just about anything 2L put out - the massed choral works are to die for as a coherancy and detail test. Oh death will destroy you and Himmelrand is amazing many available as free teaser downloads and in a massive variety of formats for same recording...this helps to evaluate different high rez formats, resulutions including MQA YES !!!!!! Heavy Fuel, I had that cranked up early in the day...something like low 40's on the ARC.... |
@gdnrbob, 35 years out of the hobby would certainly explain it. Here is the link to their website: http://www.nolaspeakers.com/ or you can type in Nola Loudspeakers into Google and there should be a link for images. Do the same for Alon Loudspeakers. Alon/Nola is the same company with Alon coming first and then about 12 years later Accent Speaker Technology, Ltd. with the Nola brand due to changes in investors and a restructuring of the company. |
I posted the following on another forum (in a conversation about the Quatros). For those who primarily hang out on the 'gon, I'll repost here: Another tip (before you finalize your impressions)...this is particularly relevant given the integrated subs in the Quatros... |
Funny you posted this as I have done the same type of thing. I always go through and know what's going to vibrate and I try to move it around. Lot's of good listening lately. I need to post thoughts when I have a chance. I've been getting lost in my listening and not posting as much. That's a great thing, lol. I do need to upgrade cables finally. I can hear the differences as I"ve put different ones in and out of the system. I really really need to get a new Audioquest USB Diamond cable. Nothing less will be as warm and detailed. I also think I may be wanting to move from the Niagara balanced interconnect up to a Wild Blue Yonder if I can afford it. I think the differences will be very very noticeable. Time to start saving as I can't afford to do that now. I surely don't NEED to, I WANT to, because these are THAT revealing. Crazy as I didn't expect this to be THAT big an upgrade from the Treo, but it really is. The Treo was exceptional and for the price, to my ears, is as good a value buy as you can get under 15k, but going up to the Quatro's, it's another league I"m playing in now. I never expected to get this type of sound in my home due to cost, but if I was doing it all over again, I'd go with Quatro's and build a system around them. You can start with good, but not the top components and you will max those out. Then you can upgrade one by one as you can afford it and it's like getting an even better and better system. That's why a great speaker should do for you. Back to listening . |
@ctsooner Are the speakers still in the same room that I saw when I bought the Treo's? If so, you mentioned that they are now closer to the walls. Correct? What about the staircase? Do they block that or are they out from the walls enough to not be an issue. Regarding the Ayre, you said it was configured to allow your not using the Vandy crossovers. How did they do that? Bob |
Bob, same room. Yes, they are close to the corners and I'm building a portable wall for the staircase that's next to it. I will be making that soon, but I have a temp deal there now. I'm sure that it's not the best sound wise, but once I get the perm solution in there, it will be fine. I'm going to probably use the green glue to bond two 3/4" drywall pieces together and dress it up with nice wood surrounding the edges. As long as I can do it and not have it vibrate I can make it work. I'm liking the larger soundstage we like that it's not way in the room. Ayre installed the crossover in the AX5/20 for me Bob. No outside box or pigtails. I can have them take it out when I go to sell it or sell it with the Quatro's if I ever upgrade. |
Rosewood is stunning also, as my 5a were CT - my first hit is free crack addict creating Audioquest dealer in Atlanta loaned me a set of WEL top of the line balanced from ARC pre to Ayre power amp when I had the 5a i sent them back.... the detail was stunning but I thought they overemphasized pick and finger noise at the expense of musicality - having said that ignoring the $ on certain material they were crazy good... like how can I send my dude $100 a month under the table so to speak.. good |
Love all the woods. I build furniture for fun and have worked with many cool figured woods. If I had done the wood Quatro’s, I would have asked Richard’s veneer guy if I could just send him a flinch of the wood that I wanted. I have a great veneer guy (the one he uses is as good as it gets btw) so I could have chosen the most figured, quilted type. I also thought about asking if the could do a carbon fiber look for the Quatro’s. I wonder if folks would want to have painted cabinets and show off a bit of the carbon fiber that the 7’s are made of? I do love the fact that for an uncharge, you can chose any auto paint on the market. I know a dealer who’s next 7’s will be in Ferrari Red with a matching amp. Very cool if you ask me, but I love the Havana Black. Interesting on the WEL as I spoke with someone yesterday who said he may send me a pair to see if I like it or not. I need a new USB cable first and foremost. I LOVE the Diamond. I do wish I had the TotalDac cable to try out with the Diamond though. That would be an interesting listen. I’ve heard the TotalDac cable in the past and LOVED it. So far, those have been my two favorite cables. I was told the WEL cables will be the most revealing you can get, but with gobs of warmth. Interesting that they weren't for you. Maybe the Wild or WBY would be best. |
Thanks for the kind words on my woodworking Bob. As you know I only took it up about 6 years ago. Just fun stuff. I'm waiting on cables, but MUST get an AQ Diamond USB as soon as possibly as I am not getting the most out of my server. Not even close. As for too much of a good thing, not with the Quatro/Ayre system I have going Bob. The more I get, the better it's sounding. |
Yes, Bob. We can and do. It's just the nature of the hobby that keeps you on "the lookout" so to speak. I may audition 10 different components over a span of time and buy only one, or many times, none. It's saying to myself "what If I did this?" This to me, is what makes this hobby exciting. Even after 45 years of this hobby I never get bored with it. With each little improvement, no matter how small, if it is audible and good, it keeps me listening to the music longer and longer. To me, that's what it's all about.... |