Incredible Audiophile Imaging -- at a Concert!
I was just at a music festival in the mountains near the border of Portugal and Spain. One of the shows was the duo of Maria João (vocalist -- either an acquired tasted or too weird, depending on your preferences) and Mário Laginha (an excellent pianist). The concert was outdoors in the ruins of the ancient Roman city of Ammaia. The sound system consisted of two line arrays, nothing more. But it was incredibly well mic'ed. A pic with the techs setting up is attached. We were seated very close to the sound boards.
About two songs into the concert, I realized that Laginha's piano was mic'ed so that an image of the keyboard, in incredible detail, was mapped from the left line array to the right. Closing my eyes, I could "see" this entire 70 foot wide keyboard image, to a level of detail that any musician who knows keys and scales could easily reconstruct exactly what Laginha was playing. It was absolutely amazing! I had never heard sound with that level of clarity, detail, and imaging in a concert before. The purpose-built San Francisco Jazz Center probably comes close in my experience, but a somewhat distant second place to this simple line array system.
I'm sure this effect was helped by there being no walls or ceiling to create any reflections. And I'm sure being right next to the sound engineers contributed. Did the altitude or cold temperatures matter? Regardless, it made Laginha's playing that much more enjoyable. It was such a treat compared to concerts held at stadium venues, or even large clubs, where the sound often sucks.
I read up on line arrays at https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/line-arrays-explained to get a better appreciation.
Wondering if any other 'goners have experienced something like this at a concert. If so, what was the venue? What do you think contributed to the stellar imaging?
@ghdprentice +1000!
I’ve attended rock concerts in theaters with fancy new DSP systems and the sound was unlistenable. Especially when the systems get overdriven. I heard Tedeschi Trucks band at the Warner theater where I literally couldn’t tell the sound of a slide guitar from any other instrument. Hard, huge amount of high frequency distortion. The Warner Theater is very proud of their new system, especially in db level matching over the entire theater. In truth it’s awful. |
Good friend of mine runs a sound reinforcement business and occasionally engineers in the studio. Introduced me to the audiophile world via Dynaco and Linn LP12 setup at his parents home way back in the dayl. Anyway he went into sound reinforcement so all his audio investments went into pro audio equipment, and this not cheap stuff, we're talking custom builds, multi tens of thousands dollar equipment. I've never heard amplified/sound reinforcement concert sound done better, he doesn't overdrive his equipment trying to get maximum volume, actually hear things like timbre and tonality with various instruments. He does virtually all genres, jazz and blues guys especially like him, does a lot of reggae down in the Caribbean, occasionally rock. Back in the day, we were big concert goers, never understood why the sound quality had to be so bad, overly loud, distorted sound seems to be required protocol at live concerts to this day. Most live music has never been my reference for sound quality, smaller venue, minimal amplification, or the way my friend does it only way to go.
As for sound extending outside speakers, this doesn't create an exaggerated size center image in any audio system I've assembled. Yes, there may be sound ques that go beyond the speakers but center image maintains a reasonable size. Devoid those ques, image outlines would be too tightly drawn, real life images blend into surrounding space, this how you want home stereo to sound. |
@ghdprentice Thanks for that post, which really made me think. One thing irritating to me is the concept of audio engineers deciding for me what I want to hear. It's one thing to be sitting in your home with different parts of the keyboard spread across your room and wondering how the thing was miked as opposed to a live venue and be finding the natural sound of a performance not just enlarged, but rather "enhanced" by sonic manipulation. Obviously someone else decided for me what I wanted to hear. With a recording it is, admittedly, something different, although I prefer a simpler two-mike or similar technique. I do like to imagine an actual group playing in front of me, but that's a pretty rare deal nowadays and you just have to ignore what's going on otherwise and focus on the music. Having that happen when the artists are actually playing right in front of you is something else: you're not listening to them, you're listening to the speakers. |
Was the piano a real instrument, or an electronic keyboard? If it was a real instrument, most likely the vibrating strings inside it were arranged in a fairly complex pattern, with the low note strings running diagonally under the midrange strings. In other words, the acoustic, unamplified instrument does not arrange for low notes to be on the left Was it a concert grand piano, or an upright? If a concert grand, was the soundboard (lid) closed, open or removed completely? Was there just one microphone for the piano, or two, or a whole array? Most likely the sound engineers electronically panned the piano sound based on frequency. Incredible sound. Unbelievable sound. Indeed, but I for one prefer believable sound |
For years, I worked along side the electric unions that set up sound for a ton of shows. Most of the time, the act sent people to check out the venues and then plan out every inch of cable and every watt. The Rolling Stones put up a really elaborate show in many sports domes and it was amazing how most of them really sounded great! It’s a science! |
