JOhnny has given the real info in this thread. String, what do you mean 'real'? Guys, he's raised his prices a bit as need and then he's come out with his carbon technology speakers and used that to raise prices, but he's giving incredible value for the raise. That said, he's STILL selling the Treo's with the awesome ceramic tweeter for those who can't afford the Treo CT's...the 2 and 3 sigs both got new drivers/crossovers from the trickle down deal. I've been hearing a lot of speakers lately and NONE come close to the Vandy's for the prices. Great value, but great sounding. |
Call Richard....he loves to talk and will surely give you the real info. |
Well played Knghifi. When I see what Richard has done and how he's priced things along the years I'm amazed. He knew the upscale market was growing and his ownership of the lower priced market wasn't going to let him live, so he shifted upscale. Now he has done an awesome job in that market. From the Treo CT on up, he has speakers that will compete and beat most for less money. It's hard not to at least like his 'sound' as it's natural. What's harder for some is to realize that even with his 'sound' being musical, it's still as, if not more detailed. It's a relaxed setting, unless the music has bite to it and you'll get that. What he lacks is that high end distortion called fatigue. His speakers are just planer fast because of the mid he builds. He's been able to do trickle down all the way to at least the 2's (I don't follow the 1's, but they have to have some of this trickle down). The newer 2's sound nothing like the 2's of the past. Personally, I'd sell off any of the 2's if I had them and get new ones as they are THAT freaking good right now. They don't embarrass themselves with top end Ayre gear. You can run them with high end electronics and you will hear the differences. It's almost hard to justify spending more than 2500k for a speaker (for 90% who can't). PSB and Paradigm are very polite speakers and nice for their cost. The B&W's in this range are ok, but not my cup of tea. There are smaller venders with speakers in this range, but I've yet to hear anything that can do all the 2 can do for the cost. I even checked out many of the used speakers today to see what you can get for the cost of a new pair of 2's and I'd rather have a new set that haven't been hammered, have a warrantee from a company who will be around and from a dealer who will come over and set them up for you so they sound their best. That's just me and my opinion. I"ve been to most of the stores in the country as I travel a lot and this is a passion of mine. next time in at Audio Connection in NJ, I"ll listen to the 1's with Rotel and NAD on them to see what my thoughts are, but I do have a buddy who has an older pair that he runs with NAD and swears by it. There is something missing when you cut the bass out like most monitors do to cut costs for a price point. I like that Richard gives you fuller sound so you don't feel like you are lacking things while listening , which most audiophiles do, lol. it's in our blood isn't it? |
Wow, that's interesting since shipping alone has gone up a lot with the gas surcharges since 09 and I know that factors into things this large too. |
02-13-15: Jafant
Guys-
we must be careful about these companies that continue to "raise" prices. They are covering their asses from the previous year and hide under so-called parts, labor...etc umbrella. This is no excuse, the cost of hifi gear has never been higher. Even the cheap stuff is high (read: over-priced). Buyer Beware. Happy Listening! Why do companies need an EXCUSE to jack up prices. If we're talking about private companies, they exist to make $$. It's econ 101, supply, demand and price. They will charge what the market will bear. |
Greetings Jafant
Hope this helps cover your concern.
Vandersteen 1CI 2009 1100
Vandersteen 1CI 2015 1249
Best JohnnyR |
Vandersteen 1CI Starting at $1,249 /pair |
Just curious... What is msrp for current Candy 1? $1200? |
Jafant, IRT Richard, he's been in the business as long as nearly anyone left. He's known for bringing some of the best bargains to the history of audio. Most of his increases are minimal for the less expensive speakers. HE's learned what trade offs people are willing to accept. Is he allowed to make money? I think that each time he's raised prices, he's upgraded the speakers or come out with a new model, i.e. the CT line. He's small scale and has to recoup the R&D costs too. Don't you really need to look at a speaker and ask.....what's the best one in your price range? If that's not a Vandy, then buy elsewhere but if it's a Vandy, then pull the trigger and love your music. JMHO |
Thanks Johnny R for the clarification. Problem is that I think inside the box. :(
As you know by now, I am a believer in speaker time coherence and the basic design objective of Vandy speakers. However, as we previously discussed, many rigs are plagued by crummy rooms. I sadly admit that my basement/sound room rings the Crummy Bell.
Fortunately, the DEQX PreMATE "tamed" the worst aspects of my room and brought a measure of time coherency to my speakers: better but not perfect.
Regards,
Bruce |
Thanks Johnny for clearing that up. I've listened to so many speakers, systems, amps, servers, DACS, cables....well, you all get the pic. Since I decided to sell off all my old stuff and start anew, I've learned so much. I too love what Richard does with his speakers, but I've heard plenty of others out there that sound pretty awesome in their own right. I don't get too crazy about just one way to do things. I'll ask and I want to know and learn, but in the end, I also just listen to music. What is making my emotions stir when I turn a rig on? We can use buzz words and try and explain things, but what works well together and what sounds the best for the money is most important to 80% of the real folks. There will always be 20% who buy flavor of the month, a new everything (used) every year or two and are never happy, or they spend as much money as they can on 'TOP REVIEWED' products (that some reviewer gets for free or dirt cheap) that cost 6 figures plus so they can show off.
There are a few lines of speakers that I could be VERY happy with for a long time. I purchased the Treo's and love them. I could have gone a few other routes, but didn't as Johnny helped me pic out a full system that sounded right with the speakers and then came to my house to set them up properly. There is something to be said about service and about making sure ones products sound their best. That's what you get with Vandy dealers and Richards choses them for that reason. Trust is a huge deal. I've yet to hear anyone listen to Vandys (any of the new line) set up properly, not at least like them a lot. Some folks will still go for a speaker with more high end 'sizzle', but they can't fault the Vandy's ability to convey the music the way it's supposed to. It's not just the phase and time issues, it's the speed of his mid driver that makes it sound like a panel at times.
We are all sensitive to specific things in listening. Is it taught? I think most of it really is, but thats ok as there are plenty of choices out there in all price ranges that will give you what you think about the most, but if you were to just sit and listen without looking at the system, a Vandy speaker with Ayre gear or even NAD gear with some good AQ cables will sound awfully tempting as long as you feed it good music. |
""all drivers responding at the same time, in one direction. While I get the nice ambient effect that might be achieved by a rear firing driver, seems like firing drivers in different directions might affect time coherence.""
Hey Bruce the 10 and 8 driver are in phase shooting in the same direction as each other. >()()>
Could it be you weren't thinking outside of the box?
Best JohnnyR |
Johnny R ... if the new Vandies release bass out the back, how do they maintain time coherence?
I thought time coherency is the hallmark feature of Vandies ... all drivers responding at the same time, in one direction. While I get the nice ambient effect that might be achieved by a rear firing driver, seems like firing drivers in different directions might affect time coherence.
I'm so enamored with the importance of time coherence now, I just dropped a boodle on a DEQX PreMATE to improve the time coherency of my speakers.
Just askin'
Bruce |
Thanks Johnny. You really have all the Vandy's set up properly. it's appreciated by all of us who shop at your store. Too many who have shops don't set stuff up properly for some reason. I was blown away by how clean and detailed the Vandy line is now. Totally different from what I felt it used to be years ago. I'm LOVING my Treo's. |
Guys-
we must be careful about these companies that continue to "raise" prices. They are covering their asses from the previous year and hide under so-called parts, labor...etc umbrella. This is no excuse, the cost of hifi gear has never been higher. Even the cheap stuff is high (read: over-priced). Buyer Beware. Happy Listening! |
One neat design feature on the 2sig2s are that they release the lower bass out the back through the ten in woofer
and mid bass in the front out of an eight, this allows a nice firm even handed in room bass response.
Since bass is the foundation to the music Vandersteen followed up with another set of excellent drivers and is now using the Patented open back reflection free 4 1/2 inch mid and tweeter from the Vandersteen 5As
This pushes this speaker from great value to great period.
JohnnyR
PS
if you wanted to read about the driver its pretty cool
Reflection free driver
http://www.patents.com/us-5073948.html |
Their lower end models have always been great value |
Materials, labour, overhead ... You name it .... It all goes up eventually even in a low inflationary economy. You should expect it.
I would only be worried if the prices started to go down. Putting aside any thoughts of downward price changes with an erosion of quality (this is quality kit ) from the typical cheap POS Chi-fi race-to-the bottom-price race,
That is when deflation hits and catastrophic economic fallout commences. Discretionery spending in deflationary times nosedives. High discretionery items like audio equipment sales cratering triggering the demise of the suppliers will be high on the early casualty list as their sales quickly start to circle the drain. |
He's been doing some big upgrades in both over the last year or so I believe. Newer trickle down drivers that really make them sound better. |
COGS - cost of goods going up in every industry that I am aware of... |
every biz has to somehow raise prices to justify and match necessary profits. for that they must show improvement to the previous model. weather or not there is actual performance improvement, the price must rise to keep model in business. rising prices also due to the demand more than the factor of improvement have any degree of magnitude. every business owner including richard vandersteen have personal interest in increased price and therefore will find sufficient vocabulary to convince regardless of improvement.
statistically in most of cases the improvement is very slight compared to the increased price. |
I'd love to know what kind of business that uses significantly researched and proven intelectual property , quality materials, domestic labor all housed in North America where operating expenses do not go up annually. |
You might want to call Vandersteen and ask Richard. Could be costly upgrades or materials at the wholesale level have increased or his overhead including labor is higher or he simply wants to make a greater profit or a combination of all the above. |
