Ikeda 9 Cartridge Squeaking
I think I'm correct in remembering Expert Stylus used to service Decca cartridges, but only by sending them on to John Wright. Perhaps that's what they did with the Ikeda too. BTW, back all the way to the OP: I have heard Decca cartridges make noises on slightly warped records, as they have very little clearance and occasionally the rear of the cartridge body can touch against a warped disk. |
Since I started this thread I eventually moved the Ikeda over to a Dynavector DV505 arm that is on a Scheu turntable I have. The cartridge performed well, and had no tracking issues at all, with a balanced sound and low noise floor. However, since I am not the original owner of the cartridge, I had no idea of the hours on it or the condition of the diamond. I figured it would be a good idea to get it serviced and have a known starting point. There are very few places that will service this cartridge. However Expert Stylus has confirmed that they have experience with it. So a week ago I sent it off to Expert along with an Ortofon MC2000. This morning I got confirmation from the company that my package has been received, and to expect the results of the inspection in about a week. At least from this juncture things seem to be going well. Good communication, and no issues with shipping from the US to the UK. |
meanwhile, if Audio Technica, or Grado called an elliptical 'special ellipse', hmmmm Joseph Grado made his best with so called Twin Tip. Ikeda made his LOMC for Fidelity-Research with Refined Contact type tip. Special Elliptical is probably Hyper Elliptical. But what is Special Oval ? :)) I'm lost in translation (from Japanese). |
@elliott I am astounded by the counter intuitive relationship of ’delicate sounding MC world’ needing heavy tracking force of 2-2.5g. "Special Oval" for Ikeda REX and latest Ikeda Supremo Supremo tracking force is 1.5 to 1.75g REX recommended tracking force is 1.5g My Ikeda 9c III has Special Elliptical diamond and tracking force is 2g. |
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Nandric, these particles sits quite tight on magnet, I so they are magnetic ones. Cartridge works like magnetic filter of dust or debris. As Ikeda magnets sits even closer to dust (surface) it filters more material. It can be seen in electromagnetic cartridge you can remove them just by blowing so they are not sticky like glue or electrostatic by their nature. |
It is odd that only those lps revealed the problem, but, happy days are here again More contact surface of advanced stylus shape, combined with lighter tracking force is the least wear to both lp and stylus, correct? I am astounded by the counter intuitive relationship of 'delicate sounding MC world' needing heavy tracking force of 2-2.5g. What shape is the tip of this stylus? |
bukanona, ''debris the Achilles heel of Ikeda''. Those who know who Achilles was are called ''classical educated kind'' (grin). I call those ''black particles'' and try to estimate the use duration of the cart in question. All magnets in MC kinds are pretty near to the record surface. They all attract particles. By ''Expert stylus'' the first job they do by carts is cleaning this, uh, ''debris''. There is of course just one Achilles but his ''heels'' are everywhere between the stylus and bellow the stylus to see. Except by my Magic Diamond. Because of this ''pottingmaterial'' which function was assumed to be preventing espionage of its ''internals''. Conspiracy ''theories'' every where. All those particles are black so my assumption (aka ''theory'') is that those are caused by chaksters ''preffered'' sharp shapes styli which plough our beloved LP's. So instead of cleaning we need some ''restoring'' method to cure our LP's. |
@neonknight Can we get a concensous of which version this is? The cartridge in the photo is the Ikeda Kiwami. As I said above I own one. I have given you the information required Recommended tracking - 2.0 - 2.5g Compliance 6cm *100(-6)/dyne As far as I can see I am the only participant in this thread that actually owns the cartridge you speak of. I purchased mine brand new - I have all the original paperwork and manual. I have actually had several of the Ikeda 9** ( 80’s cantileverless version ) and set them on many arms. I have previously set up the Well Tempered combo ( with 2 cantileverless Ikeda's on it ) for a customer and set up the Audiomods tonearm on my Platine Verdier that I sold off a couple of years ago. Neither of these arms is up to the job, even adding mass to the Audiomods wont do it, despite the Audiomods being a bit of a giant killer for the money. As I have already told you the Kiwami is much more difficult to set up than the other Ikedas mentioned in this thread, it is a brute of a cartridge. If you want to chase down rabbit holes by taking advice from folk who dont even own the cartridge in question ( many of the statements on this thread are not only guesses, they are wrong ) - then I’m out. |
Nearly all IKEDA cartridge on this page, except new with cantilevers |
Dear @neonknight : "
squeak or rubbing sound in the groove.." I own Ikeda 9 and what you are experienced is due to VTF set up where does not matters what your info about is you must set up a little higher and that problem will disappears, don't distress with. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
@neonknight, your picture looks the same as the one generally referred to as Kiwami. Earlier discussions have suggested that the gold body Rex and Kiwami were identical and one of them was for export purposes. But if the correct tracking force of Kiwami is between 2.0 and 2.5 gram, than it must be different to Rex (1.5 gram per manual). However, this brings to mind a similar situation with the Sato Musen Zen Diamond cartridge. There were two technically and cosmetically identical versions, perhaps also for export purposes. One has the word ’Zen’ and the other a Japanese character on the same spot. The only difference is the recommended tracking force...... I know this is highly speculative and probably too far fetched, but could there have been some East/West difference in playback practice that might explain this distinction? |
Ikeda 9 cantileverless tracks 90 um. At least EM and CV, personal experience. The biggest problem is debris especially magnetic which clogs suspension magnetic gap etc. First one which I have got had good diamond but suspension was so clogged that one channel was muddy and tracking was bad. Use clean records. To remove that debris without damaging coils is impossible for the user. This is Achilles heel of Ikeda catileverless. |
Can we get a concensous of which version this is? The one in this image is the cartridge I have. Are we talking an original series 9 or the Kawami? https://conchan1.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/mi-last.jpeg |
Like the others, I suggest add mass to the WTR tonearm or get a higher effective mass replacement. I recently ( this week) experienced an epiphany with my similarly low compliance Koetsu Urushi. I’ve owned it for about 10 years, used it in a few different medium mass tonearms, was never blown away by its SQ. Last week, in a last ditch effort to make it sing, I mounted it on my FR 64S on a Victor TT101 turntable. Using an 18g Ortofon headshell. Holy cow! I never would have believed the Urushi could ever live up to its expectations. But now it does indeed. Also, I am familiar with the WTR tonearm in a negative sense of the term. |
I think that 9REX and Supremo are the latest in the cantileverless series. My (forum) brother Don bought Supremo with integrated headshell and posted to ''Expert stylus'' in UK. As Decca owner he knew that Decca uses styli produced by ''Expert stylus''. So he got new stylus for about 200 GBP. Before buying any in Japan we wanted to be sure that someone in the West was able to retip them. I have never seen Kiwami so can't say anything about this one. Our assumption was that 9REX and Supremo are ''identical'' qua ''generator'' . Their VTF are 1.5 g which is the lowest among Ikeda's cantileverless kinds. I am very happy with my REX. |
@neonknight I own an Ikeda Kiwami, purchased new in the 90's. The correct tracking force for the Kiwami as per the manual ( which I have ) is 2.0 - 2.5g Compliance is 6 x 10*-6 cm/dyne. I have succesfully run it in a Naim Aro with effective mass 14g, but the best arm that I use it with is the heavier mass Fidelity Research FR64S. ( Mr Ikeda does not recommend unipivots for these cartridges. ) The Ikeda cartridges are very sensitive to antiskate because the hoop flexes in the lateral plane, so you need to pay careful attention, I set the antiskate by ear. You need an arm that you can set precisely the correct antiskate level for the individual cartridge. I have set up an Ikeda 9EM on a Well Tempered many years ago, but that cartridge was much more forgiving than the Kiwami. I dont think the Well Tempered arm is stable enough for the Kiwami in my view. |
@neonknight I use the gold coloured 9 Rex, which apparently is identical to your Kiwami. The spec sheet recommends 1.5 gram VTF, but it is by nature a very low compliance design. So it needs a high mass tonearm, just as chakster suggests. I tried it in several arms, but it sounds best in FR64s. The Ikeda arms will be a perfect match too, but I have no first hand experience with these. |
Cartridge identification on these is always difficult. Mine is the gold colored body with the kanji character on the right hand side and Ikeda 9 printed across the bottom. I have always had wondered if this is just the standard 9 or if this is the Kawami version. The general conclusion here on Audigon is that it is the Kiwami, so I run it at 1,5 grams. @chakster That is a line of thinking I have considered myself; the reason it is on the WT table is the previous owner had this pairing. The WTR arm may be better suited to the ZYX 4D or Ortofon A90 I have, and I may move one onto that table. I no longer have any high mass arms, the heaviest I have is the Audiomods Series Six with heavy cartridge plate, and that one isnt close to hitting 35 grams. I do know that Jeff Spalls makes a custom cartridge plate for people who want to run Denon DL 103 cartridges, so that should get me into higher mass territory. My only other arm is a SME V, so that one will not fit the bill either. |
I think the problem is your light mass tonearm (with golf ball suspended in silicone fluid for damping) that you’re using with low compliance cartridge. Even if the arm is longer than this WTR (10g) i think the mass is still not enough for Ikeda cartridge that require about 35g mass for optimal performance. Try Ikeda on heavy tonearm to make sure. |
The nomenclature by many carts is confusing. AT being the champion.. By Ikeda's 9 series is this, alas, also the case.. Because you mentioned Decca I assume that your sample is the so called ''cantileverless kind''. Their problem is not geometry but tracking (ability). You will need an test record with tracking/ ability test. The best what you can hope for is 50 micron ''pure''. This ability is connected with VTF while , depending from which one you own, can vary from 1,5g till 3 g. |
