Thanks Al-
That is what I came away with reading the data sheet as well. 650 cu ft/hr of natural guess used when running at full tilt, or a large part thereof every time I listen to music probably is not the most economical, and the data sheet figures concerned me as perhaps risking the addition of noise and RFI into the line... |
Slipknot, I have no specific knowledge that is relevant to your question. But looking at the datasheet for what may be the model you purchased, I note this statement: Superior harmonics and sine wave form produce less than 5% Total Harmonic Distortion for utility quality power. This allows confident operation of sensitive electronic equipment and micro-chip based appliances, such as variable speed HVAC systems. That doesn't strike me as particularly reassuring. Also, in addition to harmonic distortion I would have concerns about how free of electrical noise and RFI the Generac's output is, neither of those things being specified. I would also wonder about how economical doing what you propose would be. In any event, congratulations on the generator. Regards, -- Al |
I am reopening this thread as I just took delivery of a 17Kw/200amp Generac with auto transfer switch that will be run on natural gas. Before I install it, I am wondering about the possibility of routing the lines to my room to the Generac, thereby using it to run the system all the time as well as backup during power outages. wouldn't wiring 4 20A lines to run on natural gas work to keep the system off the grid and guarantee a clean source of electricity? |
we seem short on humor at Audiogon these days...Teasing is good thing among friends and people with similar interest, it keeps the "serious" things in perspective. Roger that, Albert. It's my life's work (inserting some levity into a pack of raving audio-lunatics), but I ask you, who better than a roller skate-shod, speedo-clad, bourbon-swilling swampthang to do it! |
My unit is hooked up to natural gas line and its nit as loud as one would think. Its a 37hp motor I think and with the sound insulation its as loud as a average small lawn tractor, a bit quieter I think.
After living through the Aug 13 2003 massive power failure it seems easy to assume that a identical or worse event could happen with our overloaded antiquated grid.
I must admit its a shameful but great feeling seeing everyone in darkness while you sit in comfort lol but the neighbors know in event of need the are welcome here. We are in country so not even water can be had during a power loss.
Generac units look nice, take up no more space then a average AC unit and while $5000 isnt cheap the first time you need it feels really good! |
My neighbor put one of these in during the Y2K paranoia. It's a large, very robust looking unit, sitting on a concrete slab, powered by an underground propane tank. If I remember correctly, it was something like $25K - $30K at the time.
It comes on like clockwork every time the power goes out on our street(seems to happened more in the past 2 years), and it's the first thing I listen for (despite the distance between our homes, it's easy to hear) when my lights go out to know whether it's just me or the whole neighborhood. From what I can tell, it comes on immediately. I mean, so quickly, that I'm not even sure one would have to reset their digital clocks.
Interestingly enough, he passed on almost two years ago (VERY unique and interesting guy, who founded the Philadelphia Folk Festival, and owned a bar called The Main Point which often featured such unknowns as Bruce Springsteen and Billy Joel and made both staples here in the Philadelphia area well before they reached national acclaim), and the subject came up when his widow and I were talking about a month ago. She considers it a colossal waste; a needless and worthless extravagance, and disagreed with my opinion that it was a nice thing to have. Even he was laughing at himself on January 2, 2000. However, after reading some of the thoughts in this thread, more than ever, I think it would be a decent buy. |
Thanks for chiming in Slipknot and Chadnliz. Chad has a nice setup. That functionality used to cost closer to $10K. I stayed with an 8 kW portable generator that runs on gas. It has electric start (you do need this!) and feeds a 10-circuit manual trans-switch. We don't have the stove, A/C, and washer/dryer in the circuits but the well and pretty much everything else is. Things are pretty "rural" around here so any propane use takes the large tank in the yard. Our neighbor has one for their gas appliances. We do use heating oil so I suppose that could be used as a source, but then you would be working against yourself in the winter when most of our outages occur. But if you're going for the Full Monty generac putting in a tank shouldn't be that big of a deal.
I can even listen to my stereo on the generator. YOu can hear it running in the background when the music is quiet but it definitely sounds great, better than the power company sounds. :-) |
I have a Generac 17k model and they are amazing. Fully automatic operation, kicks on within 15 seconds and waits a few minutes to monitor voltage srability before auto shut off. It has digital screen to monitor all functions and service issues, runs at your selected time 15min weekly to lube, charge battery and check for any potential issues. I have my entire home on it aswell as 220 line for my barn. I even had electric stove and dryer plus normal activity on it before with no hicup. If you have everything on you may see it brown down but I mean a big load. You can have an entire home normal power on with zero hassle.
Factor $5k for unit and install then enjoy, money very well spent! |
That makes sense, there would not be the issue of stale gasoline or Diesel.
Natural gas would be great for generator, I've never seen gas shut off unless they were working on our hot water heater.
I don't suppose it would be cheaper to generate your own power with gas as opposed to buying from the utility. |
Albert-
If Dan_ed doesn't mind, A Generac unit runs either on propane or natural gas, and the transfer switch senses load or lack thereof, and adjusts accordingly. I am looking at a 20Kwh unit myself. |
Dan_ed, What is the source for power? Diesel?
How do you keep fuel from going stale or is it natural gas powered? |
One word folks. Generac. :-) My neighbors thought I was crazy when I installed a transfer switch and generator 10 years ago at a cost of around $3000. Now, almost every house has one. It doesn't solve everything but at least I can shower with hot water, keep food cold, and watch 150 channels on DirecTv. Here in New Hampshire it pays for itself quickly. |
Yes, electricity is back tonight! No phone service though and Internet is down so still no squeezebox music. Contents of frig gone. ... Sweetest sound tonight -a/c and the clunking of the ice maker.
I knew there was a reason speedos scared me! |
Well,after 68 hours my electricity is back on.I was fortunate that no damage occurred.
Others weren't as lucky.
Trelja,Great Ventnor sprinkler story.Probably one of my old neighbors. |
Swamp,
I had forgotten about that. Thanks for posting it again, we seem short on humor at Audiogon these days.
There was a time when several of us had foolish posts like that, all going on at the same time. Teasing is good thing among friends and people with similar interest, it keeps the "serious" things in perspective. |
Hey Dan- Glad you're OK, but don't shoot the messenger. Take that up w Noble100!! Everything would be perfect here is my m-in-law wasn't coming tonight to stay til her power comes back (maybe a week!!!!!!!!!) |
Well, thanks for that! A mental image I didn't need! :-) Glad you came through ok, Swampwalker. Haven't heard from Doug and Paul. We did get some water blowing in the entrance door that faces east, but no real damage. We're still on the generator, though, since about 10:30 Sunday. That's a good $40 per day in gas, but I'll take that over the flooding in Vermont any time.
I think that winter storm we got year before last was much worse in our area. But nothing like Andrew was down in Fla. ;-) |
Hi Albert- I'm just egging on my good but delusional friend Noble100, who has been spreading vicious lies, to wit: Everyone knows Swampwalker down here in the bayou. He's famous round these parts for taking his boat to the favorite local dive bar here called the "Pink Alligator" which is built on stilts with a pier since it's only accessible by boat. He always orders the same thing: a bucket of crawfish and a bottle of Wild Turkey. He always comes in wearing the same thing, too: nothing but a speedo and his rollerblades. Once he gets his order, he skates around the bar, with the whiskey bottle in one hand and the bucket in the other, telling all who'll listen how bad the jukebox sounds, periodically yelling "I can't take any more of this,I'm an #@%& Audiophile damnit!!". And the evening always ends the same way after polishing off his bottle of Wild Turkey and bucket of crawfish: he drunkenly skates around the pier looking for his boat (for giggles we always drive his boat back to his house when he's about halfway through his bottle,he just lives about a mile away in a former hunting blind up in a big old tree). After he gives up looking for his boat and emphatically refuses offers of rides home, he petulantly slings his rollerblades over his shoulder and stumbles home through the swamp. The above is repeated atleast 3 or 4 times a month year round but he wears tights under his speedo during colder times like now. In fact, he was in the bar last night in his winter attire. But he drank more than his usual bottle and lost control of his bladder. People were calling him Swamppants and Swampwetter. Poor guy, I hope he's OK.
Okay, Swampwalker, what do I win for 'guessing' the truth behind your screen name and giving the readers a little insight into your life down here in What's That Smell, Louisianna? Funny thing, the patrons of the Pink Alligator didn't name him, the locals gave him that name because that's usually the only tine they see him, trudging through the swamp with his roller blades and wearing only a speedo. They also don't mind the loud music filling the swamp at night because it sounds so good, although they do wonder how he managed to get all that fine gear and electricity to that blind. He is becoming legendary down here since he often has to unavoidably fight alligators and monster sized catfish on his way home. If we patrons had named him, he'd probably be called the Swampstumbler or Swampthing. If our old friend/atty Kelly (Cornfedboy) was still around, I'd turn him loose in court and sue the S.O.B back to the stone age for defamation. EVERYONE knows I only drink Maker's Mark ;~) |
Thats how they role in da swamp, Iiii eeeEeeeeeEEE! LOL |
And the speedo was ready for its annual washing after the summer ;~) Now all is well, power back and the speedo dried off, so I am GOOD TO GO! There must be a web site where those words are cherished but I don't think Audiogon is it :^). |
...annual washing? Eew...
It was rather wet and rainy here in Albany. My rain gauge read 6.4", and the local NWS office recorded a peak wind gust of 59 MPH. Everything stayed in one piece, the power stayed on, and the sump pump ran. Now if the Mohawk and Hudson rivers will spare Schenectady and Troy (and no dams burst), the entire area will breathe a collective sigh of relief. |
Did you feel like a Swampwalker? LOL, more like a Swampswimmer. Trying to repair and re-route a downspout draining about 1000 s.f. of steeply pitched roof during a torrential downpour in the dark, dressed only in my speedo (that disturbing image is for you, Noble100) was a bit of a challenge but if it was easy, everyone could do it. And the speedo was ready for its annual washing after the summer ;~) Now all is well, power back and the speedo dried off, so I am GOOD TO GO! |
Right now, the National Weather Service and The Weather Channel are discussing which one will get to move to a new domain name, ourbestguess(.com/.gov) |
A gallon or so of water in the basement last night but I found the problem & fixed it so we are all set here. Did you feel like a Swampwalker? |
Power came back here in W. Hartford @ about 8 after 10 hrs down. A gallon or so of water in the basement last night but I found the problem & fixed it so we are all set here. |
Trelja-
Sprinklers? Good one!! I did mean Frank's Shell. Thursday people acting like that was the only gas around. Dude - drive 10 miles "offshore" and there were no lines.
I think the quake was wilder than the storm turned about to be. We did get 7+ inches of rain, not sure about Seal Isle yet. I was in the 2nd floor living room when it started shaking. The dog freaked out, we went outside (along with everyone else).
Exciting week none-the-less. Earthquake, people getting arrested on the beach, 4 really sketchy people doing the dine-and-dash at the Red Sky Cafe, and topped off with a hurricane.
Cape May County is still closed up though. Glad everybody is OK |
Trejela,
Priceless regarding the sprinklers. Truth is stranger than fiction, and funnier too. Glad to see everything's ok in your neck of the woods. |
Glad you left safely on Thursday, Joe. My sister's family also left then, as the town ordered everyone out by midnight. Hopefully, you didn't have any excitement in Cinnaminson.
Frank Pittaluga's Shell station? As a kid I used to call him Frank "Spit a luga". The Ocean View Wawa you also mentioned - if you called it "offshore" as we do, it would sound bass ackwards to anyone not from these parts, as they would (rightly) assume offshore means out in the ocean.
So far, this has been more or less a complete non-event here. I'm thankful to not have lost power. It rained OK in the early evening, but that seemed to be the height of things. 5.5" of rain in Philadelphia over the course of many hours. Not sure what part of town that number comes from, but I can't believe I got that here. We got over 4" last weekend, and 2" several times in the week or so prior to that - all of them in very order. This was not a bad storm at all. I WAS scared last Thursday night, the lightning was hellacious. In this, the wettest August here on record, most of the storms I've seen over the past two weeks made this look like a pretty nice day.
Thankfully, the overall damage at the shore is minimal, if anything. Looking forward to tomorrow, and starting what should be an absolutely beautiful week there.
FUNNY story, I was just watching the local (Philadelphia) news, and they obviously have a lot of their team down the shore. The beachfront house the 6 ABC reporter was standing in front of in Goldeneraguy's hometown of Ventnor had its lawn's sprinkler system come on about 10 minutes ago. You can't make this stuff up!!!
Here's hoping you fellows north of us don't see anything of note, either... |
Currently getting hammered here in Bristol Connecticut, mostly by heavy rains. Wind not so bad so far. 200 plus thousand out of power. So, far no water in my house and audio gear is unplugged and placed off the floor.
I think another 6 > 10 hours and we'll be through the worst of it. Mother nature is truely impressive at times. |
Audiowoman- good to hear. Very quiet here in NE, very weird just waiting. |
Things beginning to calm now. No power so no tunes. Wild winds today here outside Richmond. A few fatalities reported. |
This storm is not something to worry much about. But the world ecosystems are in turbulance with elements of dissarray. See what we'll get in the future. I am thinking about buying land in North-Western Territories, Canada. You are welcome there to ride things out. Just bring the tents and rifles. We'll go do hunting.
Good luck to all. The wind and rain here are getting stronger. Idiot or not, I'll go take a walk and patrol the neighbourhood. |
In general I would prefer a hurricane over a tornado unless its a very strong hurricane, that can be like a 6hr tornado. This stirm isnt nearly as bad as predicted or feared but the last thing Obama wants is to be compared to Bush even if the two events are night and day. |
But for shear, destructive power. I'd take sitting through Irene than the Joplin tornado anytime. Roger that, Dan_ed. Biggest difference, besides the intensity is the randomness and differential time frame under which they unfold. In most cases, aside from those random "fickle finger of fate" events, you have adequate warning these days to get to safety from a hurricane. W a tornado, you may get enough warning to put your head between your legs and kiss your a$$ goodbye. The eye is supposed to track just west of West Hartford, CT, where I live but as was noted, the has storm tracked a little inland through NC and did not get another shot of energy from the warm ocean. Given the unusually warm water temps in the Atlantic this year, I believe, that this will result in a serious PITA inland w lots of property damage (mostly on the shore) but not a killer like a Cat 3 or 4 storm tracking over NYC or the tornadoes this spring. A lot will depend on whether the exact timing; storm surge on top of normal high tides in Western LIS, East River and NY Harbor could be trouble; 6 hrs later at low tide, just a minor inconvenience. Good luck w your beach house, Joe. Looks like ours on Nantucket will be fine. |
I am talking about those who think its cool or a badge of honor to ride out a storm. I hope nobody is injured but there are idiots we all know this. |
Joe (Trelja) -
We were smart and left Sea Isle on Thursday night. you should have seen the gas line at the Shell on Central. The Wawa on the other side of the causeway was bad too. We had filled up the tank on Wed., sealed up the house and had no traffic getting back to Cinnaminson, where we have spent the last 2 days nailing down and brining in everything that might blow around. glad that you and your family stayed back here. My neighbor's brother and father are riding it out in Cape May. |
In the whole grand scheme of things, no one can control the weather nor the majority of what it'll destroy.
The most important thing is how everyone acts in response to it. Hopefully the powers that be will handle everything promptly, efficiently, and most importantly correctly. The most important thing is that people don't act like animals during the aftermath. There are a lot of very good people in NYC and the surrounding areas, even in the "worst parts." Hopefully the few miscreants don't take the worst case scenario as an excuse to act like animals. |
Thanks to all for your thoughts and prayers.
Corazon , I'm in Levittown.
Hopefully after Irene passes we can laugh about it |
Thanks all for the well wishes! Hang in there buds, you know we're going to make it. Sunrise on the beach http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBODVcsaPP0A look at the bay (Intracoastal Waterway), separated from the ocean by the two hundred or so yards of the island http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo0zYjxZ7-E And, a sunset on the wetlands side of the bay http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZqk4aVmQMw&feature=relatedGet a taste of how wonderful the experience of the beach is for a child http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACVJiIn4QdM&NR=1&feature=fvwp and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZFS-jehn2AAmen, Kbarkamian! Idiots?!? Yeah, we probably are, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLJSYklnQ40But, I will make you this promise. You know when you can routinely get 20K people, 5K of which were willing to dive into the frigid Atlantic Ocean, on an otherwise desolate barrier island on a Saturday in the middle of February, when we're as pasty white as we ever get, we are going to pick up whatever pieces needed to put things back together |
The track is truly the worst case scenario forecasters have warned about. Fortunately, Irene was not able to strengthen as it moved up the coast toward N.C. If this was even a cat 3, on the path it is slowly moving on, things would me much, much worse and we might be left talking about the east coast's Katrina.
But for shear, destructive power. I'd take sitting through Irene than the Joplin tornado anytime. |
Our country has been through a lot in the last few years, I kept hoping for a break, that Irene would blow out into the ocean and do no harm.
I watched the news and weather a lot today. I can only say my heart is with the folks and property in harms way and hope it's not as bad as it looks on TV. |
Very well said Kbarkamian.
Best,
Dave |
Not everyone who'll decide to ride it out is an idiot. Some simply have no where to really evacuate to. There are shelters, but they' have their own set of issues. Did you hear about what happened at a lot of shelters in New Orleans?
I live in Stamford, CT. 2 blocks away from the ocean. Luckily our families are all in Albany, NY. We just got there, as we have a 9 month old daughter and aren't taking any chances. If we didn't have family far enough away from the worst parts, I'm not sure what we'd do to be honest.
Not everyone has this option. I'm pretty optimistic that it'll be more annoying than utterly destructive. Living without electricity for a few days can be dealt with. Hopefully people won't lose their homes, or worse, their lives. |
Echoing the thoughts of others in wishing everyone well.
If you can leave the area as suggested, better safe than sorry. Remember the last big ones of this past decade.
I have family and friends on the island about 2 miles from the south shore. They're battening the hatches and some are going upstate.
Trelja, Goldeneraguy
I too recall '62. Remember watching a tree across the street being torn from the ground. When the eye arrived we went out and played in the flooded streets, one foot to eighteen inches rushing down the road to the creeks and on to the bay. Then the other side arrived, time to retreat.
Goldeneraguy
Where about on the island? Suffolk, North Babylon here.
As well our prayers for the safety and well being of all in the path.
Best,
Dave |
Hope everyone is safe, if idiots stay to ride it out then perhaps the herd will be properly thinned.
Not to wish harm but some idiots have more bravado than brains and the warnings have been clear and early. |
Trelja,I recall the one in 62.I was living in Ventnor City
my brother was brought home in a row boat.Disaster up and down the coast line.Good luck with your property.I'm bracing for Irene here on Long Island |
I was on my way "down the shore" as we call the NJ beaches here in Philadelphia tonight or tomorrow for about 10 days. With the mandatory evacuation of the island where I have a vacation home to by midnight last (Thursday) night, it looks like the earliest I can hope to go is Monday morning. That is, if I still have a house down there.
The last big one was 1962, when half the homes on the island were destroyed. As my father loves to say, factoring in the one before that was 1944, we're way past due.
Our prayers go out to the folks who are going to try to hang in there - keep safe. |
I'm getting plenty of company this weekend from Long Island.
I sure hope they like jazz! |
A stereo system may be the last thing to worry about under the circumstances. |
Good luck to all on the East Coast. |
