How Science Got Sound Wrong

Yes, beveling the outer edge of the CD to make the disc perfectly round is a good idea since it reduces the CD flutter and vibration. The disc still needs to be stiffened, I have a solution but it’s secret, it’s the Mystery Tweak.

I think it is a Mystery Freak.

Geoffkait I have to say to me you come off like someone with way to much time on their hands and enough knowledge and buzz word coherence to be dangerously misleading to people actually looking for answers. atdavid has you pegged correctly.
  atdavid I have a question unrelated to this thread but maybe you would know. I am looking for speaker box constructing software that would include the ability to model in deflectors to stop standing wave problems. Do you have any ideas?

Malman, do I look like I care what you think? 🙄 Your post is not only a drive-by shooting but it’s a hijacking. You can’t even stay on topic. And stop stalking me.

"Malman, do I look like I care what you think? 🙄 Your post is not only a drive-by shooting but it’s a hijacking. You can’t even stay on topic. And stop stalking me. "

Well evidently the answer to do you care is yes and like clockwork the guy with 18,000+ comments shows up.
The amusing thing about stuff you say can best be illustrated like this. You accuse me of being a thread hijacker but two comments above say
" Yes, beveling the outer edge of the CD to make the disc perfectly round is a good idea since it reduces the CD flutter and vibration. The disc still needs to be stiffened, I have a solution but it’s secret, it’s the Mystery Tweak. "
++ to atdavid for his correct summation of your contributions. Oh and please quit stalking me if you have nothing worthwhile to say.

For a drive-by shooting, his aim was incredibly accurate.

What are you, The Two Stooges? Why, I oughta clunk your heads together! 🤪 😜

What happened to Curly?

" For a drive-by shooting, his aim was incredibly accurate. "
  Well it is a big slow moving target to hit so there is that to consider too.

OK, want to hear a joke? What do you get when you cross a mentally slow learner with a community that abandons him and treats him like trash? You get what you deserve! An angry pseudo-skeptic. 😡

GK,
It is nice to see you finally admit you are an angry pseudo-skeptic.

Did you think of that all by yourself? Maybe you should consider getting someone to write your jokes for you as yours are not too good. Comedy is subjective. Maybe you should get someone to debate for you, too, now that I think about it. See, that’s funny! 😛

True, but it is always "spinning" so that does increase the level of difficulty.

mahlman126 posts11-26-2019 1:25p
  Well it is a big slow moving target to hit so there is that to consider too.

Half a wit is better than no wit at all. Congrats, atdavid! 🤗

" True, but it is always "spinning" so that does increase the level of difficulty. "
I see 5 threads started and 18,520 comments so we know he can’t be a serious inquiring mind about audio. I went to see what he was selling and lo and behold I see "Brilliant Pebbles" in the list."Blue Meanies" too and I think you will enjoy his for sale list. Not exactly what I would expect from a pedigreed engineer and self anointed master of all things audio.

I wanted to have a look at his system and still hunting for that.  OK just did a search under"geoffkait" in "Virtual Systems" for his system and he does not have one there he cares to share or talk about. I wonder why?

Just as I suspected all along, malman is a virtual pinhead. 

So GK what are you running for your personal system and where can we go to see pictures of it?

What would that prove, Junior? You think these hands have been soaking in Ivory Liquid?

So you don't have anything to show eh?

I’ll show you mine if you show me yours. 

I went to see what he was selling and lo and behold I see "Brilliant Pebbles" in the list."Blue Meanies" too and I think you will enjoy his for sale list.

This is, kind of, unfair.

Everybody, at least almost everybody, picks on geoffkait’s wares for being, ummm, slightly questionable. He is the joke of audiogon never taken seriously.

At the same time, you have companies that have products with similarly bizarre claims and they do not get that much bad attention as geoffkait’s. They actually have supporters while geoffkait is fighting alone.

He may have a bit abrasive way of communicating and may not be a sweet-talker as some of the other voodoo artists are, but his products are no more outrageous and laughable.

I am not, in any way, trying to imply that geoffkait should be taken seriously.

" I’ll show you mine if you show me yours. "

Look for Mahlman under Virtual Systems and I am there.
  " This is, kind of, unfair.

Everybody, at least almost everybody, picks on geoffkait’s wares for being, ummm, slightly questionable. He is the joke of audiogon never taken seriously.

At the same time, you have companies that have products with similarly bizarre claims and they do not get that much bad attention as geoffkait’s. They actually have supporters while geoffkait is fighting alone.

He may have a bit abrasive way of communicating and may not be a sweet-talker as some of the other voodoo artists are, but his products are no more outrageous and laughable.

I am not, in any way, trying to imply that geoffkait should be taken seriously."
  He is not the only one I laugh at here as there are more preposterous dumb things offered through Audiogon than the mind can comprehend. It was a bit surprising though to see GK selling these kinds of things and in my mind is a serious strike against his credibility in anything audio. Beeswax fuses and Blackout Paint are two of my favorites for theater of the audio absurd. Cable cookers is another. I had no idea he was involved in selling that kind of nonsense until I looked today.

  In a way I do admire the entrepreneurial spirit that offers these things to people that buy them and I believe it was PT Barnum that said there was a sucker born every minute. If people insist on throwing their money away someone needs to collect it.
 

I may be the only one around who has never visited that famous geoffkait’s website, but I thought that Cable Cooker was someone else’s. I actually visited that website.

Overall, it seems that geoffkait gets the most laughs for silly products while others’ are at times discussed with some seriousness and fierce defense of them. geoffkait at least stays relatively low-key with his advertisements. Others go full attack on anyone not bowing.

That is not to say he is correct, etc., but he is no worse than many.

Another post hijacked. Why is this allowed. I thought the OP had an important point but this has descended into immaturity pure and simple.

I apologize for my part.

At the same time, it seemed like it was all said and done and almost everyone moved on.

Another post hijacked. Why is this allowed. I thought the OP had an important point but this has descended into immaturity pure and simple.

What? Here? On Audiogon?? Say it ain't so!
Why would anyone even think such a thing?
What is wrong with audiophiles!?!

I apologize for glubson, too. 

malman
Everybody, at least almost everybody, picks on geoffkait’s wares for being, ummm, slightly questionable. He is the joke of audiogon never taken seriously.

>>>>Be that as it may I am no. 1 in sales and feedback. Have been for a great many years here. Guess I get to have the last laugh, cowboy. When I was in school I told people I was going to be a comedian one day and they all laughed at me. Well, noone’s laughing now! As for looking at your virtual system I’ve think I’ve seen enough. But thanks, anyway.

" I may be the only one around who has never visited that famous geoffkait’s website, but I thought that Cable Cooker was someone else’s. I actually visited that website.

Overall, it seems that geoffkait gets the most laughs for silly products while others’ are at times discussed with some seriousness and fierce defense of them. geoffkait at least stays relatively low-key with his advertisements. Others go full attack on anyone not bowing.

That is not to say he is correct, etc., but he is no worse than many.

No the cable cooker is not GK’s I was lumping silly things together. I don't think the beeswax fuses or Blackout Paint is his either.
" >>>>Be that as it may I am no. 1 in sales and feedback. Have been for a great many years here. Guess I get to have the last laugh, cowboy. When I was in school I told people I was going to be a comedian one day and they all laughed at me. Well, noone’s laughing now! As for looking at your virtual system I’ve think I’ve seen enough. But thanks, anyway. "
I have no idea of your sales volume but you fill an niche with willing seller willing buyer products that no one was forced to buy. I am in awe of the chutzpah you have for doing this and I have to imagine the many hours of laughter accompanied R&D as you pondered how to part fools from their money. It kind of puts your regular commentaries in perspective and while I am not going to take you as serious I am going to be quietly amused and a tip of the hat to you for being an entrepreneur. Comedy as you say is the bonus.

Malman, I’m not trying to set the world on fire, just start a flame in a few hearts. I can always use another stalker, though. It’s all good. Welcome aboard, cowboy! 

You aren't the only one selling things. I machine tweeter lenses called MAHL tweeter lenses as replacements for two of Klipsch's tweeters. I just never pushed them here because this is not a very big Klipsch site.Look up MAHL on ebay to see.

I never said I was the only one selling things. What I said was I’m the most successful one selling things on this site. Good luck with your little lens project. 

 I’m the most successful one selling things on this site.

Is Teleportation Tweak considered a "thing" or it is some other state of non-being?

You aren’t the only one selling things. I machine tweeter lenses called MAHL tweeter lenses as replacements for two of Klipsch’s tweeters. I just never pushed them here because this is not a very big Klipsch site.Look up MAHL on ebay to see.

Looked it up, pretty neat stuff. Trying to get a better impedance match on the air vs the throat and dome?

machining the throat/horn is a bit of a bear, I’ll wager. that’s some painful bit of CNC work, probably with some notable finishing work. (I bought a 5 axis CNC set up a while back)

I’m the most successful one selling things on this site.

Is Teleportation Tweak considered a "thing" or it is some other state of non-being?

The problem for the naysayers is that the science and the physics has always supported what he is doing and what he is saying. It has no method of disproving him -- rather the opposite, in fact.

Such things tend to make ’the monkey in man’ quite uncomfortable, so they use the fact argument of prior thinking projected into everything.

For if Geoff is correct, then a lot of what the linear and ego mind operates on and works hard to exist comfortably within (safe in the tree with a banana) will disappear ....and one is left.... more than a little bit groundless.

" Looked it up, pretty neat stuff. Trying to get a better impedance match on the air vs the throat and dome?

machining the throat/horn is a bit of a bear, I’ll wager. that’s some painful bit of CNC work, probably with some notable finishing work. (I bought a 5 axis CNC set up a while back)"
It is a migration from the older tweeters used by Klipsch in many Heritage speakers to a modern tractix curve inside the lens cavity. Also meant to allow for mounting more than one type of driver if you choose to experiment. The best drivers so far keeping costs contained to reasonable levels have been the B&C DE10 and DE120.

Don’t know how to answer your impedence match comment but this was tested with TrueRTA and REW to curve much better than existing Klipsch Vintage tweeters and so far measures very well against anything else offered to fit as an OEM replacement for K-77 and K-76,79,792etc too.
Machining is a breeze just using HSM and a ,007 step over with a .5" .09" corner round bull nose end mill. Stickout is 1.625 inches flute length so plenty of reach to cut it all. Modeled in Solid Edge and cut on a Haas VF4. There is no hand finishing required inside the cavity. I do buff the top with scotchbrite as I think it looks better that way.

Learning how to model this kind of part was the big problem.

Well, any finishing/programming issues would obviously show up in the metal more than the wood and I don’t really see any, so it appears to be a nice combination of quality hardware and well reasoned programming. To my relatively untrained eye, that is. (you edited to offer the buffing comment)

I mean, that Haas hardware... is enough to get an enthusiast all wiggly inside like a happy puppy.

Enough of the side discussion, I guess.... and back to whacking each together with nail riddled 2x4's of poorly thought out hack attacks.

" (you edited to offer the buffing comment) "
  Ended up having to buff the top only because the engraving left a bit of roughness to the edges for one and I like the satin look it gives as a contrast to the shiny cavity.

Arguably rarely right. The naysayer is almost always wrong. Sometimes they are right, and they end up with a Nobel prize, not selling a "Teleportation Tweak" to gullible customers.

teo_audio1,258 posts11-27-2019 9:10am

I’m the most successful one selling things on this site.

Is Teleportation Tweak considered a "thing" or it is some other state of non-being?

The problem for the naysayers is that the science and the physics has always supported what he is doing and what he is saying. It has no method of disproving him -- rather the opposite, in fact.

glupson

I’m the most successful one selling things on this site.

Is Teleportation Tweak considered a "thing" or it is some other state of non-being?

>>>>That’s a commendable question. Personally I’m not sure what it should be considered. But I know it’s both the lightest audiophile tweak AND the only audiophile tweak that doesn’t involve shipping or costs thereof. It also cannot be reversed, unlike phone calls. Yet, it is guaranteed. You don’t see that kind of customer support too much, I’m afraid.

Audiophile tweaks are like pudding. The proof is in the eating. No technical arguments or explanations are required. And if one is desired I have the definitive explanation of how the Teleportation Tweak works on my web site.

atdavid
Arguably rarely right. The naysayer is almost always wrong. Sometimes they are right, and they end up with a Nobel prize, not selling a "Teleportation Tweak" to gullible customers.

“If I could explain it to the average Joe Blow they wouldn’t have given me the Nobel prize.”

“People would generally be much better off in their lives if they believed in too much rather than too little.” - PT Barnum (gee, that quote seems tailor made for Mr. Smarty Pants 👖)

Sometimes doubting is only a misplaced, or disguised faith... And true doubting really implicate a dedication to truth that is incompatible with any prosaic discourse (except poetry ) be it a theological one or even with some science discourse...

Question: how is it that some scientific discourse, for example darwinism, is kilometers away, parsecs away perhaps, from scientific thinking process ?


I apologize for my rant, because it is perhaps all over my head... :)

Similar to the family dinner table, it is probably best to leave religion and politics out of this discussion.

mahgister804 posts11-27-2019 11:04amQuestion: how is it that some scientific discourse, for example darwinism, is kilometers away, parsecs away perhaps, from scientific thinking process ?

I think you are right for your remark about my post....My bad.... My best to you...

We didn’t understand. Thanks for correcting us. 😬 It won’t happen again. Scout’s honor. ✌️

The problem for the naysayers is that the science and the physics has always supported what he is doing and what he is saying. It has no method of disproving him -- rather the opposite, in fact.

Such things tend to make ’the monkey in man’ quite uncomfortable, so they use the fact argument of prior thinking projected into everything.

For if Geoff is correct, then a lot of what the linear and ego mind operates on and works hard to exist comfortably within (safe in the tree with a banana) will disappear ....and one is left.... more than a little bit groundless.

No matter what the texts say and what the leading edge of the science and physics says (as some think they’ve got it figured out), it is still turtles all the way down.

In essence, we all live in a forest, in a box..and if the forest is full enough, complex enough, etc (for the given individual)...then we can’t see the walls of the box and then we don’t understand that there is even a box.

The vast majority of humans live like this, this thing where their consciousness is like a s**tstain running down the side of an animal. It is unavoidable unless one isolates themselves from it (the world and interactions of any kind), like a buhddist or zen monk, and spends the decades it takes to clear ones self up..

The linear mind as attached to someone trained out of textbooks (rote dogmatic impression and regurgitation) and told to use that text as a dogmatic bible and thrust it at all out there they see and encounter..as a filter and hammer...this person might not be (and probably isn’t) wired to understand that their forest IS actually in a box.

As.. it is in a box.

A box on the back of a turtle, and well, we can’t see through the mist (turtle) to see if it ends or of there is another turtle below that, or a million more turtles - or what.

Go to any university and ask any professor of physics if they think what I say is true or not. They may take exception with how I’m presenting it or wording it, but..conceptually, re the idea of reality itself...they will agree.

This basic point in human psychological positioning and understanding is the very raison d’être of engineering vs physics/science, as wholly separate vocations and mindset ---from one another. Eg, Queens university here in Kingston, categorically refuses to conflate engineering with physics, for that very core and important reason. It’s embedded in the names of the courses, the naming of the fields of endeavor, the buildings, the paper work, in everything. It is subtle, but 100% there. Just like it is in all other facilities dedicated to higher education.

You exist as a self created and self maintained load line of data points, hanging in a unfathomable mist, connected to nothing discernible.

That’s all we’ve got.

Engineering is when we utilize the data points on that misty ended loadline...among themselves as a representation and fabrication of a forest and forest products -- within the box. And that job, or endeavor as a fundamental, has pointedly.. no use for theory and is centered around facts, as the load line is one of facts.

But the full nature of the loadine as seen by science, is one of all theory, as.... with no anchor point, it can’t be anything else. The science and physics....recognizes and attempts to deal with the box and the turtle, or tries to deal with the misty obscured ends of the loadline.

You can look at one of a thousand different expressions of it and find exactly the same.

Few look, though. as the nature of it is to become ungrounded and then ostracized at a minimum, so the animal carrier of the self...shies from it.

I don’t do this too often but I’m going to reveal something about the Teleportation Tweak. Introduction to How the Teleportation Tweak Works (the whole story can finally be told),

“Now, there’s been a lot of speculation that the Teleportation Tweak involves sending subliminal messages over the phone - which actually isn’t a bad idea lol ..."you are getting sleepy and your system sounds just like a really really big system...Magicos and Continuum Caliburn and the really big DarTZeels..." or sending frequency sweep audio signals or low frequency demagnetizing fade signals over the phone, akin to the demag tracks of the XLO Test CD. But those aren’t what I do, not even close and a little too mundane, anyway. Fact is, when I do the Teleportation Tweak for a customer his system doesn’t have to ON at the time, nor does he even have to be in the house! Hel-looo! So, here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to give away some of the "tricks" involved with the Teleportation Tweak. Watch this space. I will be running around doing a bunch of things today and the next few days and will be filling in the blanks on the fly.”

Teo,

You knowledge of modern engineering especially research w.r.t engineering is rather "limited". Using Queen’s as an example of the rest of the world is rather "limited". Many universities specifically have Engineering Physics disciplines in fact (my undergrad). Research at the bleeding edge of things w.r.t. engineering disciplines, whether semiconductors, AI and information theory, even materials, etc. are not anything like basic mechanical engineering, civil engineering, and even electrical engineering, and your attempts to paint all engineering as such only shows lack of experience on your part. There is a big difference between day to day implementation engineering, engineering R&D, and pure research in engineering fields.

I actually talk to professors at universities fairly often. I also talk to engineering professors often. It not rare at all for cross-disciplinary research either as the lines between the two disciplines often blur except when you get into theoretical physics, which very few, even at the university level are involved in (most experimental physics is very engineering like by the way).

And no, they would not take exception with "how" you say it, they just would not agree. You are conflating all engineering with simple implementation engineering which is absolutely not true, and you are conflating all physics (and science) as one of pure theoretical research, which again is very much not true.

Go to any university and ask any professor of physics if they think what I say is true or not. They may take exception with how I’m presenting it or wording it, but..conceptually, re the idea of reality itself...they will agree.

But the full nature of the loadine as seen by science, is one of all theory, as.... with no anchor point, it can’t be anything else. The science and physics....recognizes and attempts to deal with the box and the turtle, or tries to deal with the misty obscured ends of the loadline.

At Virginia my Aerospace Engineering program like any school included mucho physics, theoretical physics, statistical thermodynamics, mucho math, chemistry, theoretical propulsion, fluid dynamics (physics), statics and dynamics (uh, physics), nuclear engineering (physics), indeterminate structures, and many other courses.