How much money for your next interconnect cable???
I believe there were time people just looked at you and shout " you are crazy" when they heard how much money you have to paid for your interconnect cables. Even more so if they found out how much money we reselled them on audiogon after a short period of time (same thing happen to our audio component). And it will freak them out if they know again how much money for your next purchases. I know we just laugh and ignored their disbelieve. Anyways, do you plant to buy your new interconnect cables? If so, what is your budget and how do you gain your wife or significant patner acceptance!??!?!!!
Please include brands, models and why do you think this/these cable/s will improve your system.
My system include: Krell KRC-3, Krell kav-1500, krell FPB-200, CJ DR-1, CJ premier-11, Bench Mark DAC-1, Classe SSP-60, Sony DVD 9000ES, VPI scout Sig, Theil 3.6, Triangle Tratos Luna, Definitive Tech Ref, PS power plant-600, Shunyata Hydra 4, Monster HTS-5000s, Kimber Hero cables, Nordost Heimdall, Nordost Blue haven, Tranparent Ultra XL cables, Mit Shotgun cables, PS audio-Extream power cords.
All the cables are system dependent, this is the whole story,if you do not like x cable s performance in your system (comparing to y cable 20 or 2000$)keep it and in future with another preamp or power amp,speaker cd player you will be surprised x cable would perform better than y cable in your new setup Everybody must try many cables before to buy in his setup cheap or expensive
A Statement product wheather it be a component or cable is still part of the chain that one listens to. I would gladly do a blind test and feel that that maybe the proof is in the pudding. I think that cables are one of the least understood aspects of high end audio! As to the tastes and expenses that one is willing to subject ones self too. Is totally dependant upon ones mood and linings of ones pocket.State of the ART is just that, a view of ones audioworld. Cheers Dennis
Cmk - Thanks for the reply. I'll check into "Slinkylinks" (Sorry for the delay replying...lost track of this thread and didn't know I'd gotten a response.) GH
Leica_man: if some manufacturer shows up with a $10,000 (or more) ultra high end SOTA space age etc. superconductor, there would always be someone who buys it (even if it would have a pricetag of $20,000). In short: there is no budget limit with regard to audio (if you have the cash), so Audionuts' question is in fact irrelevant.
Rja, I very much appreciate the cordial response. Almost makes me want to shell out a grand and trip out into aural Shangrila! Now if anyone wants to comp me on those magic cables, I promise to give them a good listen. Until then, I'll have to make do with my new on-sale-for-$9 Monsters, which I heard someone call, and this hurts so so badly, the Bose of cables. Cheers.
I respect Stewie's opinion and understand where he's coming from because there IS a huge amount of BS out there. But I believe there are cables that sound better than others. And as Audionuts points out they may not be the most expensive.
After years of experimentation (including much more expensive cables) I'm currently using Gabriel Gold Revelation ICs and bi-wire speaker cables with great satisfaction. These were purchased right here on Audiogon. No real advertising, no outrageous claims or hype just a very nice product. Quite refreshing!
First, ask yourself, Are you a believer? If not, then there is no need to start a conversation here. Second, it is hard to distinguishing between low and high-end cables in which a blind test was conducting in a short time period. You have to live with it for quite a while before you can say it is sound worst or better to you. To say there are no different between $20 and $1000 is untrue. As same as audio equipments, too. It may not be significantly different at first but give a $1000 cable sometimes. After a long period of getting use to its sound then you don't want to go back to those $20 low-ender again. It happents to me, my friends and a lot of people out there. that is how we are end up in this forum. Finally, I just want to clatify that it is not nessesary to be expensive to sound good. There are a good number of affordable cables on the market now. But the point is are you satisfy with what you have now?
That's a fair question, RJA. But you can probably guess that I don't look for blind tests for everything, largely b/c, and I think you'll agree w me here, the differences b/t, say, a $200 set of grannygrade speakers from Walmart and 14k set of Watt Puppies are obvious and palpable. Differences b/t amps and cd players are less obvious, though both differ quite a lot in build quality, I think you'll agree, even if they can sound the same. So before I plunked down 5k or even 2k for a cd player, I might very well want to know whether I could distinguish its sound from, say, a well made if lower priced Jolida or Rega, or for that matter, whether anyone could distinguish b/t them. But cables are especially suspect for the same reason that bottled water is suspect: 1)the claims made for both seem, on their face, fatuous, and 2)the potential for profit is extraordinary. So, the burden of proof ought to be on the manufacturers. If you say your water is purer, let the FDA check; if you say your water tastes different from tap water (we'll leave aside whether it tastes better), let's do a double blind test to see if people--believers and sceptics-- can distinguish a $12 bottle of water from a $3 bottle.
What I find curious about all of this is fact that Our Church of Good Cable :) could settle the matter once and for all with a double blind test. And if I were a manufacturer who actually believed that my cryogenically treated, organically mined cables that I sold for 2k a pair were sonically distinguishable (notice I didn't say "better," which is subjective) from a $30 pair, I'd sponsor such a test and publish the results. But from what I've been able to glean from the web, the double blind tests that do exist on power cords (not interconnects, I know) show that no such sonic distinction exists, much to the surprise of those who thought they were hearing a difference. You may know of the power cord test: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html
Whatever you may think of his wine advice, even Robert Parker's harshest critics recognize his ability to _distinguish_ between hundreds and perhaps thousands of wines. And even 2nd-tier critics can distinguish between hundreds of bottles. But I've been unable to find a single test showing anyone capable of distinguishing in a double blind test a single low-end cable from a single high-end cable. Can anyone point me to such a test? Since so much skepticism exists, one would think that such a test would have been run.
Thanks for your very reasonable post, Rja; I might just make a couple of points, if I might, and then sign off. First, I don't doubt for a moment that components sound different. My new VR4HSE (bought on Audiogon!) sound different from my Kef Reference 3s. The Mullard 4004s sound diffent from the GE 5751s, though that difference is less pronounced. Some may prefer the Kefs to the VRs, and some may prefer the Mullards to the GEs. One would have to be nuts to think that there is an objective opinion about which one is better. It would be like assuming that there's an objective fact of the matter about which color is "best." But the blind test is looking for something very different, and it leaves value judgments aside. The blind test is testing for one thing and one thing only: whether someone can distinguish b/t, in our hypothetical case, 2000k cables and $20 cables. If you can't distinguish the cables in a blind test, then your preference for one set of cables doesn't depend on sound. Imagine for example, that someone could not only distinguish b/t the $20 and $2000 cables, but preferred the way the $20 cables sounded. The test doesn't say: no, it's objectively true that the $2000 cables sound better, so you're nuts. It only says: you can hear a difference between the two. So, if the cable congregation can't distinguish, in a blind test, between high-end and low-end cables, it is objectively true that their preference for the high-ends is independent of sound.
This is not, by the way, a troll. I'd considered more expensive cables about a month ago, but couldn't find a single blind test that showed expensive cables making a detectable difference. If someone could point to such a test, I'd love to see it.
My point is that components, including cables, do indeed sound different. To me it's a given. Everyone is free to believe what they want to believe but why even engage in the conversation if one believes everything sounds the same? Now whether those differences sound "better" is pretty much subjective. And whether that difference is worth mega-bucks is a whole other aspect of the discussion. The "blind" test is touted by those who believe that objectivity is possible in all this craziness. I don't want to open that can of worms, AGAIN. I believe that there is a place for objectivity but at the end of the day most audio decisions are based on subjective opinion; you like the way something sounds or you don't. Having said all that, I agree with you Stewie that a certain amount of scepticism is a good thing especially when it comes to all the hype thrown around by manufacturers. I guess the old adage; "trust your ears" is the way to go.
Pitiable me--I thought this was a genuine question rather than an invitation to come down front and testify at the altar. But seriously, and w/o rancor: John's point is just right. If you expect to hear a difference, you'll hear a difference; if you don't, you won't. Put tap water in a bottle and sell it for $3.00 a quart, and hydrophiles will wax poetic about its superiority. My question is not whether your 1000k cables sound better to you when you know they're there; my question is whether you and the cable congregation :) can distinguish, in a BLIND test, between $20 cables and $2000 cables. If you can't, then you're paying $1980 for the privelege of being fooled, and that's your perogative. Honestly, I'm not in the least opposed to paying for even slight increases in sound quality; nor am I opposed to aesthetic considerations: well-made cables, like well-made amps, speakers, and the like, are things of beauty, and can enhance one's experience in the way that a freshly washed car seems to drive better. But if I found that those with even supersensitive ears and high expectations couldn't, in a blind test, distinguish between high-end and low-end cables, I'd get the least expensive well-made cables I could find. Would anyone do otherwise? Cheers, Stewie
Ghosthouse "Anyone using ICs from JPS Labs? Have a Superconductor FX between TT & Amp. Have 2 pair of Ultraconductors between CDP/Tube Buffer/Amp and would like to upgrade. The Super is better than the Ultra. I've got a very modest budget...so the $348 x 2 for new 0.5 M Superconductor Qs (Q has replaced the FX) is a stretch. I realize by comparison to some of the ICs owned by A'gon members this is a pitifully small amount - none the less any suggestions about bargain/hi value brands? Used is OK. Imaging, Soundstage (with & depth), Netrality and Transparency (help the speakers dissappear)are the things I'd be looking for (if I'm not re-stating the obvious). Thanks."
I moved from the FX to Slinkylinks and never looked back. They shouldn't be too expensive and so far I've not come across any cable, including most costly ones, which would entice me to change.
Dazzdax, I don't know about spending $10,000 on a single pair of interconnects but I do know a thing or two about vintage gear. In my component library I have a pair of Western Electrics 9 watt amps and a pair of Voice of the Theater horns acquired from my local theater when they "upgraded." I've also heard numerous systems based on vintage electronics, horns, and turntables. I agree those old systems were very musical but they did not then, nor do they now, possess anywhere near the resolution, nuance, or holographic sound staging of a modern system with carefully selected cables. Case in point when you upgrade old patch cords and 16-gauge lamp wire found in a vintage stereo, you upgrade overall performance, musicality, and enjoyment for that system.
Think about a vintage Ferrari or Austin Martin. Sure those were great cars, perhaps more inspired then many of todayÂ’s super cars, and driving such a car is a passionate experience. However, would you dare suggest these cars could not benefit from modern high performance radial tires? Sure modern high performance radials are more expensive compared to 1960Â’s bias plyÂ’s, but is that the point? Would modern tires not improve the lap times and overall handling of a vintage sports car and are these gains in performance worth the added expense? To me the analogy of vintage sports cars and their horrid bias ply tires vs. modern high performance radials fits this debate like a glove.
To spend US$10,000 for some interconnect cables will not guarantee a better sound than the less $$ (but still expensive) Wireworld Gold Eclipse. I think they cost US$800 in the used market. In the 1960's audiophiles didn't even know that using "audiophile grade" cables could "transform" the sound of their systems. Still these ancient systems (with the standard factory supplied zip cords) sounded very musical and sometimes did sound more musical than contemporary $$$ systems (for example Quad ESL 57). This is a fact and in some aspects it is quite sad that some audiophiles are still looking for the "audio nirvana", even when they are using US$10,000 cables.
Why would someone who maintains that all cables sound the same bother to participate in such forums? Seems like a huge waste of time. Sort of like an atheist going to church!
" FWIW, it's much less expensive if all cables sound the same to you. I do envy your condition."
I don't know, John. Is it envy or pity? Maybe a little of both for me. I appreciate being able to hear the differences in cabling because when I find that right combination for each component, where the sum becomes greater than the whole, and the sound is closer to that holy grail of "live and natural", it makes me very happy.
09-01-07: Stewie When I can find a blind test in which listeners can distinguish $20 cables from 2k cables, I'll consider spending more than $20.
If you do not preconceptionally expect to hear a difference........ you won't hear a difference.
If you cannot hear the difference between cables, either for the positive or the negative, then you probably won't hear a difference in cd players, amps, etc. either.
Some folks can hear a difference, to others Wal-Mart stock sounds just as good. There is not right or wrong answer.
FWIW, it's much less expensive if all cables sound the same to you. I do envy your condition.
i spoke to tom kenny of aural thrills. he explained that he is using a very low powered amp to drive the interconnect. it may still be on his web site.
he said it was very expensive and time consuming to produce this cable and it probably would not be a production item.
he told me that the cable could be constructed using any wire material but the benefit of the tube design is to "enhance" dimensionality. each wire material would affect the frequency response and spectral balance.
Anyone using ICs from JPS Labs? Have a Superconductor FX between TT & Amp. Have 2 pair of Ultraconductors between CDP/Tube Buffer/Amp and would like to upgrade. The Super is better than the Ultra. I've got a very modest budget...so the $348 x 2 for new 0.5 M Superconductor Qs (Q has replaced the FX) is a stretch. I realize by comparison to some of the ICs owned by A'gon members this is a pitifully small amount - none the less any suggestions about bargain/hi value brands? Used is OK. Imaging, Soundstage (with & depth), Netrality and Transparency (help the speakers dissappear)are the things I'd be looking for (if I'm not re-stating the obvious). Thanks. Hope this is somewhat in keeping w/Saxo's orginal reason for starting the thread.
Mrtennis, that is very interesting, way to the future. I was looking at the new MIT Oracle but I think I should stay put just for now. I would love to know more about it
Right now my threshold of pain/sanity is $400/m pair for Slinkylinks silver XLR. My other purchase was the RS Silver cable 2m which I got for about $200/pair.
How to convince the wife, I don't tell her, just say "Listen honey, it sounds better now". LOL.
today i became a ware of a cable innovation--an active tube cable. essentially, the cable intrfaces a black box which has a tube socket and takes a 12au7 tube. the box then luhgs into an outlet. the cable allows for vriation in tube and line cord. the designer of the cable may not go into production because of the cost and intricacies of design and production.
i intend to speak with the designer tioday or tomorrow. ihave not reveleaked the company name at this time.
it would be a shame if this cable were not commercially available. it represents a true innovation, regardless of the obvious considerations regarding accuracy and neutrality.
Decision made. 'Going for the most-est, from the candidates in my lineup that is: the venhaus pulsar IC with silver bullets. If I don't hear a difference/appealing sound I'll return them. So put me down for $440 or 7% of my system's value for the main source IC.
08-27-07: Audionuts Edo_musica, It is a great system you have. You could find some good basic cables and interconnects for $75-$100 but trust me, cable are vey importance. I know a lot of people would not go 100% for there cable but it is not a good idea. If you have more budget go for it.
Yeah this territory is new for me. Just today I am deciding on AudioArt v. Guerilla v. VH Audio ICs for the DAC. pricing for the 2 pair I need is $190 to $450. At the high end that is nearly 50% of the unit which to which they will be connected. Again, this is new territory for me.
I just bought a pair of Black Sand Violet. I should have them tomorrow. Has anybody had experience with these? And I aggree with the comment that power cables might affected the sound more than anything.
Edo_musica, It is a great system you have. You could find some good basic cables and interconnects for $75-$100 but trust me, cable are vey importance. I know a lot of people would not go 100% for there cable but it is not a good idea. If you have more budget go for it.
John, I agree with you, interconnect are vary so much from system to system. It is hard to say "y cable" is better than "x cable". we all have a bad habit and we don't like to stay put without upgrade or doing a little change in our system. And everytime we do so, cables and interconnect are very importance if thing were not going the right way, right? That is why we always on the quest for that "good links". I aslo totally agree with you that power cord would improve any system. I have tried a lot of different power cord and was kind of happy with PS audio extream power cord. Shunyata power cord are good, too.
Sugarbrie, I have a pair of the older 4/80 Siltechs and they are very special to me. The only interconnects I'll be adding to my system will be a used pair of Von Gaylord Chinchilla, but they are rare these days.
If so, what is your budget and how do you gain your wife or significant patner acceptance!??!?!!!
Audionuts
08-27-07
Yeah....er...about that. My wife has no idea what I buy. She doesn't ask for acceptance for the purchases she makes either. It's more like 'don't ask, don't tell' here.
Cables, I've been through more than my share. How much to spend and what to recommend? I'm afraid that there is no easy short cut here. Sure, everyone will chime in with their current favorite cables, but in my 30 years in the hobby, I've found cables vary so much from system to system, that there is no one right answer for all people. If it were only that simple....... The only way to find audio bliss is to listen with your ears in your system. So either try from a manufacturer with a money back guarantee, use The Cable Company's lending library, or buy used at a good price that won't hurt you on re-sale. No one can tell you how much to spend, or what will sound best to you. You simply have to do your own 'homework'.
FWIW, I'm now of the mindset that power cords affect the sound more than interconnects do. So my power cords eat up the lion's share of my cable/cord budget.
Audionuts, I am looking for a short RCA interconnect for my new DAC and am limiting the cost to $75-$100. That price point seems reasonable in my basic $6000 2.1 system (Denon/Tetra+ML sub/Monarchy). I think the level of your system warrants a higher price point/higher quality IC. too bad I can't do electronics or I would since DIY would likely cut costs by 90%!
Others who post should include the approximate overall value of their system (or specific components) in their response. >>>> as always ".... it's all relative!"
As soon as I get a decent commission check I'll be purchasing my second set of Ridge Street Audio Design's Poiema !!!. The first set is between pre and power amp, next set for CDP to pre. The cables are over $400 for 1/2 metre, but my search for cables ended once I tried the first set.
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