How much does a DAC do the more expensive it is?

In my case, being a professional studio musician, I'm extremely sensitive to the power of music, the sound of instruments, and in particular groove.  My DAC solution (M-Scaler/Dave) has both excellent clarity (where instruments sound more like they'd sound in the room than with lesser solutions) that I think the Dave is responsible for, and it grooves really well (I feel your my bobbing, my toe tapping, I get sucked into the music's rhythm better) that I think the M-Scaler's sorting of transients contributes to.  But these are only a guess as to why it's working well for me.  As in all things musical in both my amateur and professional life, it all boils down to "is the music moving me?"   In neither life can I accept that the music not move me.  So the expenditure was worth it to upgrade.

simao

Why does Tidal Master quality streaming through my Oppo/Schiit combo sound so much better than playing a CD through the same combo? I'm talking of identical releases of CD and streaming selection. 

They're not identical if the stream has been processed with MQA.

For me it depends on the system quality and room acoustics/ size. Up to a certain point a dac like the Denafrips Aries is all you’ll ever need. The differences could be subtle if we are talking of a simple system, but can be really palpable in a highly resolving one. 

A little update on my A/B comparison between a PS Audio DS DAC Mk1 ($6800) and an Ayre Codex ($1800 new?) w/ both being fed by an iFi Neo Stream (I²S to DSD and USB to Codex).  I was using Roon, as I always do and the Neo was using fiber from NUC into the fiber SC input...  Bottom line, they both had their strengths and weaknesses.  The DS DAC was definitely more refined (ie less congested in busier passages).  It's highs were a bit softened which I absolutely dislike (and I've known about this trait for quite some time).  The Codex exhibited better front to back imaging and better treble.  The bass was a tad boomier than the DS DAC which I also do not care for but it was very slight.  It still reaches down pretty damn low for such a little DAC.  That little extra bass energy just mucks up busy parts of a song just a tad, IMO.  Very slight but I hear it.  I honestly preferred the Codex though even due to it's short comings.  It could very well be that it synergized better with my other Ayre Gear even though it was a cheap DAC.

In this case the cost, is not worth the jump up to the DS DAC, IMO.  So I said screw them both and just ordered a new Ayre QX-5 Twenty 😂  Ayre just sings to me whereas PS Audio is a bit too laid-back/relaxed for my tastes.  If I want that, I'll throw on a record.  I love hearing ride cymbal ping/cymbal sizzle that take a while to decay.  This is realism to me since I play the drums.  The DS DAC muffles them it a bit and I don't care for that.  Sure it is more pleasing to the ears, but I crave accuracy even if it's more piercing (as cymbals should always be!). 

I have no doubt that the QX-5 will nail the bass perfectly (deep and even tauter than the PS Audio), retain the sweet highs, have even better front to back soundstage than either of the other two DACs and be more refined than the PS Audio.  And those traits are what a higher priced DAC should bring to the table.  But in all seriousness, I was looking for a QX-5 before ever doing this.  This little exercise merely motivated me to do it now :) 

You might consider swapping out the oppo for a transport such as Jay's or pro-ject first.  Seems to me it makes more sense to ensure you're extracting as much data from disc's as possible before moving to a more expensive DAC.  

@simao I have tested dozens of DACs ranging from the Khadas Tone 2 up to the dCS Rossini w/ Clock.  

All DACs are a trade off between detail, image size (height/width) and depth.  Almost all of these DACs offer some coloration or interpretation of how music is supposed to sound.  There is not a linear relationship from a pricing stand point but ultimately, generally the higher the price the less compromise between these three factors.  This holds in broad terms when you consider units in different price clusters but individual results will vary.  

You have to get into the details of each product in terms of comparisons

@verdantaudio Thanks for the explanation and the relationship between the three factors. That's something I'll keep in mind when/if I upgrade. 

@stuartk Agreed - but I also use the Oppo for streaming and I don't want to lose that. 80% streaming and 20% cd

All DACs are a trade off between detail, image size (height/width) and depth.

to these parameters being traded off i would add quality tone/truth of timbre, prat, and (non sonically) build quality/ergonomics/feature set

+1 @jjss49  - thanks for the well-put (multiple) contributions to this thread

audiom3

80 posts

03-06-2023 at 04:41pm 

A little update on my A/B comparison between a PS Audio DS DAC Mk1 ($6800) and an Ayre Codex ($1800 new?) w/ both being fed by an iFi Neo Stream (I²S to DSD and USB to Codex).  I was using Roon, as I always do and the Neo was using fiber from NUC into the fiber SC input...  Bottom line, they both had their strengths and weaknesses.  The DS DAC was definitely more refined (ie less congested in busier passages).  It's highs were a bit softened which I absolutely dislike (and I've known about this trait for quite some time).  The Codex exhibited better front to back imaging and better treble.  The bass was a tad boomier than the DS DAC which I also do not care for but it was very slight.  It still reaches down pretty damn low for such a little DAC.  That little extra bass energy just mucks up busy parts of a song just a tad, IMO.  Very slight but I hear it.  I honestly preferred the Codex though even due to it's short comings.  It could very well be that it synergized better with my other Ayre Gear even though it was a cheap DAC.

In this case the cost, is not worth the jump up to the DS DAC, IMO.  So I said screw them both and just ordered a new Ayre QX-5 Twenty 😂  Ayre just sings to me whereas PS Audio is a bit too laid-back/relaxed for my tastes.  If I want that, I'll throw on a record.  I love hearing ride cymbal ping/cymbal sizzle that take a while to decay.  This is realism to me since I play the drums.  The DS DAC muffles them it a bit and I don't care for that.  Sure it is more pleasing to the ears, but I crave accuracy even if it's more piercing (as cymbals should always be!). 

I have no doubt that the QX-5 will nail the bass perfectly (deep and even tauter than the PS Audio), retain the sweet highs, have even better front to back soundstage than either of the other two DACs and be more refined than the PS Audio.  And those traits are what a higher priced DAC should bring to the table.  But in all seriousness, I was looking for a QX-5 before ever doing this.  This little exercise merely motivated me to do it now :) 

I have owned a qx-5 twenty for 4 years.  We moved last year and while we were in the process, I sent my unit in for the USB update. The USB-2  update pushed my qx-5/20 to another level.  I assume if yours is new from the factory, the update will be include. If not, by all means have it updated once your DAC is broken in.

Its a no-brainer for the cost.     Good luck   Jerry.