I forgot to add, i have 1 each first reflection points absorbers 2’x4’ on each side wall and 2 other panels, same in rear. Room is 14x18x 9’6”H
How much acoustic room treatment
I purchased treatments from a magazine recommended source. I installed about half the panels as was recommended. Although the sound stage improved and echo decreased, i found the warmth of my tube amp decreased. Is there too much treatment in the room or do i now need to play with speaker placement to return that original sound?
the most significant change when installing the treatments were the stacked, 2 on each side total of 4, behind the speaker, in the corner behind speakers, bass absorbers each measuring approx. 2’ by 4’.
txs.
the most significant change when installing the treatments were the stacked, 2 on each side total of 4, behind the speaker, in the corner behind speakers, bass absorbers each measuring approx. 2’ by 4’.
txs.
15 responses Add your response
Mark, What you describe points to something else at work, if you take off too much high freqencies then the midrange would be more prominent and should sound warmer, if you are now finding the midrange is now too sterile you are not just damping the room you are sucking out way too much energy. All acoustic panels are not the same, we hate fiberglass based panels because they tend to do what you are talking about, You want a broad based panel which has both absorption as well as diffusion. First step is removing all the panels and adding them in slowley and trying them in different places and looking for a neutral tonal balance. Which panels did you purchase? Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
https://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/sound_silencer/sswall_panel.htm we use these panels to construct the sound proofing for Rev Runs Theater as seen in DIY Rev Runs Renovation. We also used these same panels in our theater. Bass traps ASC tube traps. The above panels material is both an absorber and a diffusor. You would want a quadratic or 3d absorber panel for the rear wall. PM us for more details if we can assit you. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
The least amount is best. Surrounding the area adjacent to the speakers with damping has not been beneficial in my experience. Read the thread by Michael Geen on tuning the room. I purchased a new summer home that has a large great room and setup some old B&W speakers that never sounded that great in my current winter house. The room is fairly lively, but man do those old speakers sound like they never did before. There are no room treatments. Returning to my winter home for a few days in which extensive room treatments are deployed I’ve decided the room is indeed too dead. I removed one tube trap and one 4x8x4 bass trap, added one 2x2 diffuser on the back wall where the big bass trap resided and sure enough the system sounds better. I would surmise that like most things, moderation is best. |
Hi Guys, thought I would jump in here since I am RoomTune. The reason I designed RoomTune and the whole MGA family of products is so you can become your own listening expert. Just like every recording is unique, every playback situation is as well. Some listeners’ places are super easy to tune and others seem like a nightmare for them changing with every new recording put on, driving the listener crazy. Acoustics isn’t really all that hard, you just have to learn the basics and get away from Audiophile formulas and sales pitches, or buying into a method because it worked for your friend, reviewer or acoustical company themselves. I’ve always worked from the premise that the goal is to restore the music’s performance back into the environment (after going through the audio chain) and then adjust it per your preferences. It’s also my goal to be able to play any recording in my collection to it’s fullest potential, and again to my liking. Like mentioned here, if you read back to my earlier days of tuning up your reviewers, you will see as much as I added to the rooms I have also taken away from them. Fact is every recording presents a new acoustical/mechanical presentation to your space and there’s no way around this. And why should there be? Part of the fun of being in the hobby at it’s higher level of performance is understanding the variables and how to Tune them into their best delivery. You might be a casual listener that has stopped at the plug & play level of listening, but to many folks this is a beginners level. I design easy to use products but also work my way up to the ultimate listening environment, which is the Tunable Room. The Tunable Room is a giant variably adjustable musical instrument that you sit inside of and adjust to any sound you wish. As cool as that is most listeners are never going to spring for that level of listening. Instead most have a living room, basement, remodeled garage or spare bedroom. Whatever the case is keep in mind that it is unique. This might surprise a lot of you, but a big part of my business has been removing other companies acoustical treatments as they (the listener) start all over again. The reason this happens is because HEA audiophiles tend to over do the hobby. It’s not your fault, just part of the over selling revolving door the hobby has created for you and then thrown you to the wolves. Here’s what I tell folks when they ask me to compare my stuff to others’ "what is your goal". My goal for you is to become the master (expert) over your own system and sound. If you think diffusing, trapping or dampening the sound in your room is the ticket, go down that path, and it will either workout for you or you might be emailing me if and when it doesn’t work out so well. Here’s the easiest way for you to decide your path with acoustical products, look at their name and see what makes the most sense to you. Dampeners dampen the sound, diffusers diffuse it, traps trap it.....and RoomTune is designed to Tune your room and system. I’m not really crazy about rooms that don’t sound natural to me. When I walk in a room I usually ask the demo person to turn off the music so I can hear what the room is sounding like. When I ask them to turn back on the music I can hear the music playing like the sound that I heard when the music was turned off. The system will always sound like the room unless the system needs tuned up as well. Learning how to tune your system to the room is as important as tuning the room to your ears. Once you do this a few thousand times :) you learn what in the audio chain is out of tune. Sometimes it may take you a while but once you hear an electronic component out of tune you recognize this sound separate from a room being out of tune. Here’s a trick you can do if you think your room is over treated. Most rooms tuned to a natural setting are about 3db up from the systems output. If you took your system outside where there are no walls and play it, you will have your true system output. Now take that system into your listening room and your sound will have increased 3db-6db. A typical good sounding room will end up around 3db of natural amplification. If you find that you had to turn down your volume half way when you got inside your on the right path. If you found that you kept the volume the same or even turned it up, your in trouble. When your room is in tune (or getting closer) you will almost always be turning your volume down because your system is working less and producing more. Did you also know, that if your room is in tune toe in means virtually nothing (excluding panels). If you have to play with toe in to get your stage or tonal balance better your system is struggling to interface with your space. The better your room is tuned the more your room is going to react naturally to sound. And, the more your system tunes to the environment the less you need it to work so hard to get things right. A simple system in a room tuned to it will give you a natural soundstage virtually anyplace you set your speakers left and right. The more out of tune your room is the more fussy toe in becomes. There’s all kinds of tricks and treats to finding out if your room is in tune or how your system is mating up with your room. Michael Green www.michaelgreenaudio.net |
Very useful discussion here, thanks to all for the interesting information. I will soon move house, and will need to start from scratch, in addition, as my room will not be a dedicated playback room, I realize that there will be some compromises to be made. In general, I don't use music as a first indicator of how a room sounds, as the problem is that we don't have the reference for that particular recording. I use the human voice of a family member as a kick-off. (after carpet, curtains and furniture are in place). Let them talk/read at the other end of the room, and see how it sounds. let the room interact, and see how you like it. Although this will only reveal a small part of the frequency spectrum and the acoustics of the room, I believe this is a good start. Later play music, and see how highs and lows behave. I have used some software to measure room response, but will use my ears to decide. I will hear things different anyway than others, as our ears differ. I'm using line source speakers, with separate woofer towers. Now I do calculate a starting position, also because the speakers are quite heavy, not easy to move around, however will let my ears decide on the final position. (In fact, a lot is published on the internet on how to calculate the speaker position, but you will be surprised how different the advises/methods are). This all confirms that your own judgement will be decisive. In general I like the "Michael Green approach", as this is rather simple, and "acoustically building" a room step by step. Never fill the room at once, as by doing so you may have overdone it, killing dynamics. Anyway, I not so much into sound dampening, unless you are in a really small room. Lots has been said about room acoustics, and more will still be said. It's quite complex, there's not a simple formula on how it should be made perfect, but that keeps it also interesting. |