How many People own Working Reel to Reel Decks?

Noobie question:

Can i use a Nagra IV to playback commercial reels? Tape project reels? Or is it the wrong "size".

Size matters dear Doktor and the NAGRA alas won't do.

The basic requirements for Tape Project tapes are 10.5 reel, 15ips, 2 track stereo with IEC EQ.

I bought a Pioneer RT-909 reel to reel brand new around 1980. It worked for about 6 years and died.

After about 12 years I got the urge to try to bring it back to life. I did some research and found a seller on eBay that sold special kits with the new belt, pinch rollers and the bearings that disappear when you take off the cover over the belt area. The seller claimed that this kit would fix most problems with this deck.

It was not easy for me as I typically am much better at demolition as opposed to repair. I am happy to tell you that the kit was exactly what was needed. About 3 months ago I managed to fully utilize the kit and have my 909 working perfectly again.

It is my pride and joy and I have recorded from many Cd's to it. I prefer the reel to reel playback sound over a CD any day.

The deck works so well that I can't tell any sound quality difference between the 3 3/4 ips speed and the 7 1/2. As you may know you end up with a lot of music with two sides of a 3600' tape at 3 3/4 ips.

Before the 909 I owned a Pioneer 1020H reel to reel. It was nice but I don't really think it was in the same league as the 909. The 1020H did however go through a lot of tape when used at 15 ips.

Hope you enjoy the Revox.

Look into the Tape Project. I have heard their moded decks and tapes. They are outstanding. There is little question that reel to reel is the best, but what a pain in the ass. I will never try them again.

Revox G36 for me

Charlie

Reel to Real tape decks in use:
Ampex AG-440/2-4 (15ips & 30ips, 1/2")
MCI (15ips & 30ips, 1/2")
Revox G36

I love analog

Hi!

I bought my first reel to reel in 1974 when I was 15. It was a Tanberg with built in amp and speakers.... Then in 1997 I bought a Tandberg 10XD with 10 inch reels. And sold it for a 3 head cassette player Nakamichi Dragon. Silly me. However, I bought 20 years later a second hand Revok B77 Mk2, which we use a lot. Especially at parties and social events, as no one dare to touch. It looks to scary :) Great sound, and we can tape songs from Spotify.

Cheeers, ToffenG, Norway

I own 4 Open Reel decks now, all are broought up to, or better than factory specs. but have owned several others in the past as well. Right now I have a 2 track Tandberg TD20A-SE, with all new Tandberg Heads installed...A Tandberg TD20A all heads replaced 1/4 track...an AKAI GX-747 DBX, fully restored, and a TEAC X-2000R DBX fully restored as well. All of my machines are Black as main color, and all in perfect working order. I enjoy making Tapes from my Vinyl Front end, to any of the machines Im in the mood to use at the time. The sound is phenominal, I love Open Reel decks, and always have. I also have a Nakamichi RX-505 cassette deck, completely restored, I have owned since new. Ray

Where do you buy reel to reel recordings?

I'm sure the question has been asked, but when I googled it I kept getting reel tapes (blank) for sale. Thanks, Jeff

Try Thetapeproject.com

The tape project site looks great. But, at $300 an album it would be difficult for me to obtain the quantity I'd like to have to make a meaningful start.

It looks like there are some tapes on Ebay.

Other suggestions?
Thanks, Jeff

Jeff,
I dont go the Tapeproject route, and I have 4 decks, and been into these machines for years. Its easiest to just buy what you like from ebay, or craigslist, etc...Also, if you have a nice turntable, you can make your own tapes, and listen to those. Another thing I had some fun doing was, a few other members in Audio Asylum and myself, each made a full 10 inch new metal reel of tape, with various kinds of music we liked, and mailed them to one-another. This way, each guy got to see how his deck sounded playing tapes well made from the other persons deck, and also got to hear different music than you might hear everyday on your own system. Everyone had a real nice machine, or machines, and we all used virgin tapes, and kept them completely analog, using turntables as our source of music. Some Mobile Fidelity LP's, other imported pressings, etc...we recorded at 7.5 ips, and used 1/4 track decks for the exchange. Ray

Hello,
What is Spotify?? I know Open Reels are great for recording much music on a tape, with great recording quality. Do you mean from Radio? I do that myself here, with use of audio timer, for late night recording on my TEAC X2000R or AKAI GX-747 DBX. Great machines, but my Tandbergs are still my favorites overall. Ray

Yesterday, I heard a highly modded technics 1500 with some of the TapeProject reel tapes (these are dubbed in real time directly from the master tapes). Very, very, impressive sound, but not enough, for me, to justify the expense (~$4000 for the deck and $300/per release of TapeProject issue) and logisitical hassles of going to reel-to-reel playback. YMMV.

Long ago I had several reel to reel machines and even have several live tapings of FSU jazz band recordings. They are a pain in the ass, but are clearly the best sound. I refuse to listen to any tapes now.

Tbg,

good to see you at RMAF, sorry we did not have time for much discussion.

for a guy who pursues the ultimate music reproduction performance without compromise; you have twice in this thread mentioned that RTR is the best sound but also a pain-in-the-ass. did some RTR guy kick sand in your face as a kid, or something?

of course; you have also sworne off vinyl too as being too much trouble.....and accepted the 'dark side' as your exclusive music source.

i'm just 'outing' you as an analog crumodgeon so you don't scare others into thinking RTR is a pain; it's not. mounting a tape is easy and actually less stressfull than cueing an Lp in most ways.

we do agree about the performance; RTR is second to nothing regarding music reproduction.

Hello,
I myself, and many friends I have made on Audio Asylum, Audio Karma, Tapeheads.net etc....all have fully calibrated up to spec units, that we use regularly, and make tapes for oneanother and mail to eachother, to listen to eachothers tapes. I also buy prerecorded tapes from years ago, that sound fantastic. I dont buy the overpriced Tapetrail tapes, but instead make my own, from my very high end turntable, thus keeping all of my recordings fully analog, and they sound as good as the source. A great way to back up your existing vinyl collection, and get hours of listening time. I highly recommend. I also know several Tape Technicians that specialize in restoring Reel to Reels, and have lots of NOS parts for the units, like Tandberg, TEAC, Pioneer, Revox, etc....Ray

hi Ray,

i think you and i agree on most things; particularly on our shared enjoyment of tape. i do have a different viewpoint on 2 things though.

I dont buy the overpriced Tapetrail tapes

i assume by 'Tapetrail' you mean The Tape Project

if you want 'fully licensed' 15ips 1/4" 1.5 generation master dubs, made from the 'original master tapes', dubed to a 1" working master and then dubbed on master recorders, then it will cost you. when someone offers anything remotely as good for less then you can say they are overpriced. i agree that they are not inexpensive.

instead make my own, from my very high end turntable, thus keeping all of my recordings fully analog, and they sound as good as the source.

even The Tape Project tapes are 1.5 generation; there is a difference between the 1" working master of the original and the 1/4" tape master dubs. and this is with all master recorder level decks using the original master tapes. using a 'good' tt as a source, then dubbing onto 'broadcast/prosumer level decks' will make good tapes, but not 'as good as the source' and certainly not close to what the Tape Project tapes sound like.

the original Lp will always be better than a tape of it.....the degree of accuracy of the tape will vary with every step in the chain. the tape dub of an Lp will introduce a certain 'tape' sound which is nice but will lose a degree of dynamic range from the recording process too. personally, i'll take the original Lp. in any case, the tape will sound different than the Lp....a bad thing to me.

i'm not trying to rain on your parade; but at the top of the analog performance food chain, whether vinyl or tape, there is varible performance based on the quality of everything. when you step up to the top level there are benefits. it's not for everyone. but for those who do participate in The Tape Project, the additional sonic performance is worth it.

i've compared every Tape Project tape to the best Lp pressing of that same performance on my Rockport tt. the Tape Project tapes pretty much smoke any Lp. a tape made from those Lps even on my Rockport would not be quite as good as the Lp, let alone as good as The Tape Project tape.

Hi Mike,

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean the source as being the master tape. I meant the source as being my vinyl front end, or any other source I am recording. Not only me, but just about all the fellow tapeheads I associate with, cannot tell the difference from tape and source when listening. All of our tape decks have been fully spec'd or better. I use a guy that was Tandberg USA Factory Service Tech. in NYC, and he does many Open Reel machines for very wealthy people like doctors and lawyers, all very wealthy audiophiles. Maybe with measuring equipment you could tell a difference, but with our own hearing, we cannot, our decks are just that good. Maybe your hearing is better than all of ours, thats very possible, but I can speak for many of us, all with same results. None of us are using decks that we just bought in working condition, all have been completely gone through with a fine tooth comb, to the best that they can perform, and biased to todays higher biased tapes. Thats what im referring to when I made my statement. Ray

I've compared every Tape Project tape to the best Lp pressing of that same performance on my Rockport tt. the Tape Project tapes pretty much smoke any Lp. A tape made from those LPs even on my Rockport would not be quite as good as the LP, let alone as good as The Tape Project tape.

Agree, I have two tape machines now, Technics 1520 and Studer A810 Mk2, both smoke any turntable ever made. The real problem is availability of software.

There are easily several hundred thousand great LPs but every tape title ever made on open reel would amount to perhaps a few hundred. To reach that total some would be the terrible 3.75 IPS commercial tapes from 1960s found used Flea Bay :^).

That being said, I will not give up on open reel tape, it's wonderful to have a reference source that's clearly several steps closer to perfection so I can "reset" my standards button when evaluating various turntables, arms and cartridges.

Ray,

trust me; i know that tapes made off tt's can sound very very good. i'm not being critical of them. but 'very, very good' is different than 'as good as the source' when that source is a top level tt.

as tt performance improves; making a tape that can equal it becomes more and more difficult. the refinement of cartridges and phono stage output circuts have become very very good. 70's solid state output circuts in RTR decks are crude in comparison.

the signal path is full of IC's and other 'crud' like any other 70's solid state hifi gear. when you tape the Lp the RTR input circut has an effect and then when it's replayed the output circut has an effect. you take the Lp output from a current high quality phono stage and then run it in and out of those circuts. then if you trade tapes the recording process again goes in and out of those circuts. every generation of tape has multiples of the loss of resolution and the noise floor increases.

which is why a tape of an Lp on a 70's prosumer deck can not equal the Lp. it's just phyiscs.

now; if you make the first copy on a 1" master recorder like The Tape Project does, then copy it on a set of custom configured Ampex master recorders there will still be a difference you can hear, but it will be very slight. but this set-up will be very expensive and require some real experts to make sure everything is just right. why would The Tape Project go to so much trouble to make the best possible dubs if it was easy. it's just not that easy.

no; i don't hear any better than the next guy.

it's only with digital that you can make perfect copies; but only because the life has already been sucked from the music during the A to D process......so who cares then?

i think that if someone enjoys making tapes of Lps, and likes the sound, then i say enjoy the tapes. if someone enjoys making digital copies of Lps and likes the sound, then i say enjoy the digital. OTOH if someone says either of these approaches make perfect copies, then i say that is wrong. i'm not critical of either approach, just of a miss-leading statement regarding them. i like to hear music in all formats, as close to the native source of the recording as possible.

Mike,

Im not going to get any further into a contest of what I cannot hear, which is a difference between my sources and my recordings, or that of those that I frequently talk with, of the same opinion. But I will say, Im not running any crud machines from the 1970's. Im using 2 deskc from the latter 1990's, and 2 decks from the middle 1980's, and of them, all 4 decks have been completely brought up to better than factory spec, by an expert in this field, of repair and restoration. A guy who I referred many people, and all have had nothing but the most positive to say about his work. I switch between source and tape, I also have DBX type 1, which on occasion I use, and I cannot hear a difference, which is all that is important to me. And to all others that are impressed when I allow them to hear these tapes. I like to agree with you on the fact that we both love reel to reel tapes, and Id rather not argue. My ears are my guide, and they hear just what Im telling you. Ray

It sounds to me like you two guys should make a tape and swap with each other, and let the chips fall where they may!!!

jsman

Im not really arguing with Mike. He is right. From a technical standpoint, the absolute original source, or master tape, will always be better than any generation copy of it. But if that is what your paying $300.00 a reel for, than you should expect that. What Im saying is, the copy that I make on any one of my machines, sounds just as good as the source Im using to my ears, and the ears of many of my fellow reelers. And thats all that is important to me. I am not measuring the results with sensitive test equipment, Im listening to it via my stereo, which is pretty top notch, luckily, since I put alot of it together before children were born. I could never do it now. So, I enjoy my perfect to my ears sound, and enjoy the expressions of fellow audiophiles when I play things for them, or make them recordings. None of us are using test equipment to evaluate any difference between my source material, and the tape of it that I made. Ray

Ok Ray,
I do understand what you are saying and agree for the most part; but I also agree with Mike as well. Now if your recordings come out sounding as good as the source to your ears, that's all that really matters. Now looking at it from the other side any copy can not possibly be as good as the original period. It may sound as good, but there will be a slight degradeing in sound. That will be easier to see with the proper equipment, than one would be able to hear with his/hers ears.

I have one...Studer A820, but may obtain another one for location recording. -Sam

Hi Sam,
I have an A810 and would be interested in an 820, about how much does one go for now?

Thanks,
Thata exactly what I was saying Jsman. Ray

Hey Jsman,

Sorry for the late response...just got back into town. I purchased my A820, with 1/2" and 1/4" capabilities, from a mastering studio in Burbank. Had both headstacks evaluated by Sprague Magnetics in Sylmar, CA...95% head life remaining...Charlie Bolois sorted the deck for me. I think I paid approximately $5700, total.

Regards,
Sam

Well thank For the threed I Have Crown 700 series deck which is in storage right now and I will get it back out in about a month and hook it up. I wonder what it sounds like now. I used the heck out of it for years and years. don't know how I got it here from the east coast, but it was still sounding great back then ( 1980 ) and as I said I just used the thing continuously until 1987 when successive moves lost it as it went into storage and now I look forward to getting it going again. So I will hear what it sounds like now.

In am interested in purchasing an AKIA GX635 in good working condition. I have a Revox A77 Mk III. The right channel is out and the 3 3/4 speed is not playing correctly. Any help out there?

Revox 77 mk2 1/2 track hi speed
two mics straight in relavatory
a few european master tapes in collection and stuff I do myself..
got the bug for Tape project and Acoustic Sounds tape subscription... but.....wow $$$$$$
also i have a nice Wadia A to D converter so with same performance, signal chain going to tape and digital  I know what good digital is...and is not....
if i dive off the end it would be modificatins to incorporate external Bottlehead electronics...