How many People own Working Reel to Reel Decks?

i've been getting into RTR since last summer.....when i subscribed to 'The Tape Project'.

so far i have a stock Technics RS-1500 and a refurbed Ampex ATR-102 in my room. I have also purchased a Studer A-820, which is being updated and 'gone thru' by a Studer expert.

regarding software; so far i have 5 of 'The Tape Project' 15ips 1/4" tapes, a few more 15ips 'master dubs' of questionable source; and about 150 various ebay 7 1/2ips commercial tapes of various qualities.

i think RTR decks are way cool......i cannot yet say exactly how good they can sound.....but i'm working on that.

Tbg,

good to see you at RMAF, sorry we did not have time for much discussion.

for a guy who pursues the ultimate music reproduction performance without compromise; you have twice in this thread mentioned that RTR is the best sound but also a pain-in-the-ass. did some RTR guy kick sand in your face as a kid, or something?

of course; you have also sworne off vinyl too as being too much trouble.....and accepted the 'dark side' as your exclusive music source.

i'm just 'outing' you as an analog crumodgeon so you don't scare others into thinking RTR is a pain; it's not. mounting a tape is easy and actually less stressfull than cueing an Lp in most ways.

we do agree about the performance; RTR is second to nothing regarding music reproduction.

hi Ray,

i think you and i agree on most things; particularly on our shared enjoyment of tape. i do have a different viewpoint on 2 things though.

I dont buy the overpriced Tapetrail tapes

i assume by 'Tapetrail' you mean The Tape Project

if you want 'fully licensed' 15ips 1/4" 1.5 generation master dubs, made from the 'original master tapes', dubed to a 1" working master and then dubbed on master recorders, then it will cost you. when someone offers anything remotely as good for less then you can say they are overpriced. i agree that they are not inexpensive.

instead make my own, from my very high end turntable, thus keeping all of my recordings fully analog, and they sound as good as the source.

even The Tape Project tapes are 1.5 generation; there is a difference between the 1" working master of the original and the 1/4" tape master dubs. and this is with all master recorder level decks using the original master tapes. using a 'good' tt as a source, then dubbing onto 'broadcast/prosumer level decks' will make good tapes, but not 'as good as the source' and certainly not close to what the Tape Project tapes sound like.

the original Lp will always be better than a tape of it.....the degree of accuracy of the tape will vary with every step in the chain. the tape dub of an Lp will introduce a certain 'tape' sound which is nice but will lose a degree of dynamic range from the recording process too. personally, i'll take the original Lp. in any case, the tape will sound different than the Lp....a bad thing to me.

i'm not trying to rain on your parade; but at the top of the analog performance food chain, whether vinyl or tape, there is varible performance based on the quality of everything. when you step up to the top level there are benefits. it's not for everyone. but for those who do participate in The Tape Project, the additional sonic performance is worth it.

i've compared every Tape Project tape to the best Lp pressing of that same performance on my Rockport tt. the Tape Project tapes pretty much smoke any Lp. a tape made from those Lps even on my Rockport would not be quite as good as the Lp, let alone as good as The Tape Project tape.

Ray,

trust me; i know that tapes made off tt's can sound very very good. i'm not being critical of them. but 'very, very good' is different than 'as good as the source' when that source is a top level tt.

as tt performance improves; making a tape that can equal it becomes more and more difficult. the refinement of cartridges and phono stage output circuts have become very very good. 70's solid state output circuts in RTR decks are crude in comparison.

the signal path is full of IC's and other 'crud' like any other 70's solid state hifi gear. when you tape the Lp the RTR input circut has an effect and then when it's replayed the output circut has an effect. you take the Lp output from a current high quality phono stage and then run it in and out of those circuts. then if you trade tapes the recording process again goes in and out of those circuts. every generation of tape has multiples of the loss of resolution and the noise floor increases.

which is why a tape of an Lp on a 70's prosumer deck can not equal the Lp. it's just phyiscs.

now; if you make the first copy on a 1" master recorder like The Tape Project does, then copy it on a set of custom configured Ampex master recorders there will still be a difference you can hear, but it will be very slight. but this set-up will be very expensive and require some real experts to make sure everything is just right. why would The Tape Project go to so much trouble to make the best possible dubs if it was easy. it's just not that easy.

no; i don't hear any better than the next guy.

it's only with digital that you can make perfect copies; but only because the life has already been sucked from the music during the A to D process......so who cares then?

i think that if someone enjoys making tapes of Lps, and likes the sound, then i say enjoy the tapes. if someone enjoys making digital copies of Lps and likes the sound, then i say enjoy the digital. OTOH if someone says either of these approaches make perfect copies, then i say that is wrong. i'm not critical of either approach, just of a miss-leading statement regarding them. i like to hear music in all formats, as close to the native source of the recording as possible.