Right now I'm listening to an Erato recording of Renaissance Music streaming via Qobuz and my Mytek BB. An older Primaluna integrated (new 6550 tubes) and a pair of cheap NOLA Boxers. No tweaks. Cables, etc. commensurate with the rest of the system. No room treatments but a good room with careful speaker placement. The soprano's sound is absolutely delicious. Yeah, I'm happy with what I got.
How good can it get, really? - my stereo sounds amazing!
I really love my stereo currently. I keep thinking I should be looking for the next piece to upgrade - phono stage, stereo subs, etc., but honestly not sure what to change or why I’d potentially spend more money to achieve a result that’s lesser or equal to my current sound quality. I sorta feel clueless as to how to proceed without screwing up what I have. I know it can get better but honestly I’m at a place when I just don’t know how it can. Hmmmmm.... not a bad problem I guess. Open to suggestions for sure. Thx.
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Like audiozenology states, furniture is no substitute for room treatments. FACT! Actually that kinda depends on how and why the furniture was built. Read, its quite easy to design and build sound room specific furniture, and decorating features, that serve a dual purpose, and produce an acoustically correct environment that doesn't scream man-cave ( or cost a mint ). |
No, they do not act as diffusers. Uhhh, they actually do, though maybe not ideally.....and they can also act as absorbers, though again, maybe not ideally. Doing a thorough acoustic inventory room is tricky business that often serves up surprising results. The square footage can add up quickly and can be your friend or your worst enemy. Its all about the frequencies attenuated or accentuated by those square feet and in what measure eh. |
Oh, geez, people will believe anything. CD jewel boxes, for example, are actually *resonators* and not in a good way. Look, the sound will be much improved taking all the things I listed out of the room, no matter what argument you can come up with that it won’t. If you haven’t done the experiment you really don’t know. 😬 |
jerrybj Geoff Base Camp may be the highest I ever need to get to. >>>>I know you can do it. As Bob Dylan says at the end of all his records, good luck to you! |
I’m in the same place you are. Ttook twenty years, but I can finally sit back and enjoy what I’ve built. Any further improvement would be minor. Which won’t stop me from trying different things, just that the days of heavy investment are over. Tinkering won’t set me back much. Some suggestions about what to try next, in your situation—- 1. A hospital grade wall outlet— furutech or wattgate. Get one before you even think about upgrading your power cords. They aren’t that expensive. If you can’t hear a difference, no point sinkng money money into pc’s. 2. Are your speakers perfectly positioned? Correct distance from back and sidewalls and perfectly angled and tilted? Experiment with that. Even half an inch can make a difference. 3. Vibration control devices, whether it’s platforms or shelves or footers. My system is loaded with them. Dozens of choices out there. Check out a few. |
Kudelka813 - yes! 1: Already done. I had some RF feedback issue and replaced the outlet with a hospital grade unit. All gone! 2: I could benefit from some slightly longer speaker cables. I’d like to play with placement a bit but my current cables are just long enough to accommodate their current position. 3: Vibration / isolation is critical! I could see myself playing around more in this regard to achieve better sound across the board. We are in the same page. I like it! |
Back at you, Paulgardner. 4. My speaker cables are lessloss c-Marc. I think highly of them. Check their website — they are quite unique.. Their footers (Bindbreakers) are also highly effective. 5. Whether room treatments would help depends on your room. (Duh ...). Books and carpets, books and carpets. Move the furniture around some. Everything else is voodoo, or can be mostly fixed by moving your speakers around. 6. The floor between your speakers and in front of you r components is very sensitive. Worth experimenting with it. I got a very clear improvement by placing a teak chest full of books in that location. Much improved sound staging. . 7. Try shutting down youR power bar or power conditioner when the system isn’t in use. Also, try spraying down the cabling with an anti static, which sort of makes my point. There is a lot of experimenting that can be done for little or no money.. . |
No point around here isn’t worth missing it seems...If your room doesn’t need treatment because its inherent acoustics are fine...not dead, but fine...it might even sound like a room, then don’t worry about it. If you live in a large tomato can or a raw concrete bunker you might need some treatment...in that case treat it. Moss...grow moss. I’ve worked in recording studios and mixed live shows for decades, and I prefer less dead rooms. Removing furniture and CD boxes and replacing everything with sound deadening "treatments" is simply silly, and if you experience a weirdo with cheap headphones without ear pads listening to a walkman in your room, that’s geoffkait...remove him...the sound will improve immediately. |
taras22 I agree that carefully selected furniture can help, but this is no substitute for good quality acoustic treatments. Most I build myself, but I did recently buy some of the best quality diffusors for a song and was very impressed. If you have the ability to DIY, then treatment doesnt cost much. |
audiozenology"Furniture is not a replacement for room treatment. It can even make things worse" This "information" is so wrong on so many levels, aspects, and issues that it is hard to know where to begin a good place would probably be that furniture is a kind of room treatment even if that is not the type that you like! Some people "like" the sort of sculpted "egg-cartons" and other "doo-dads" that often is used in official, commercial purpose designed "room treatment" but none of these "treatments" contain any magic, fairy dust, or voo-doo spells and there is nothing worse and I do mean nothing than an overdamped, overtreated, over analyzed room and that is very common when relying on these "professionally-approved" commercial products because the company’s often want to sell you just one more "corner trap" or special "diffusor" thingie so whether using these products or furniture you’re room can be "over-done." |
I understood the question of the OP as seeking quite significant improvements to the system. Obviously, I was wrong; when outlets and power cords become the primary objective, then one is merely tuning up the rig, not making great advancements. Adding a couple of subs would be a nice improvement. Make sure to get aftermarket power cords on the system, or else a lot of performance will be left on the table, even with the subs. I support outlets as improvements, so going that route will make a difference. But, let not the OP think he's really gotten close to the ultimate. No, in absolute terms there are dozens and dozens of rungs on the ladder of system improvement. Maximizing the set of components and speakers you have is a different situation. You can only take a defined set of gear so far, but if that is the goal, it is fun and can be very efficacious. Regarding the recommendation of those who said essentially, be content; it seems you were right, he does not wish to venture far from his current system. No shame or problem in that. I never promote foolishness and irresponsibility in pursuit of system improvement. I am a big proponent of contentment, as I give generously to Christian programs, budget monthly (just did so yesterday), and have allocated a consistent amount of funds over the years annually to achieve what I have over time. So, if the goal of the OP is to primarily hang where he is at, there is nothing wrong with that! Typically when I discuss the necessity of spending more, upgrading major parts of an audio system, it is within the context of the performance of the system, not associated with the individual's personal financial situation - unless they specify, which in this case he did not. Strictly in terms of performance of audio systems, though, I see many audiophiles ignorant of just how vast the performance spectrum is. I think I have answered that question thoroughly enough. Have fun with the upgrades! :) |
Even though your posts is more of your attempt to troll virtually every post I make, at least this time you attempted to make a post related to the content of what I said. I think anyone that understands anything about room treatment and acoustics knows that furniture is no substitute for room treatment unless you have found a way to:
However, I am sure you are an expert on acoustics and can share with us your expertise to solve the real acoustic problems, that audiophiles face with furniture. p.s. I know you love that leather chair, but the cloth one will reflect less high frequencies. clearthink1,031 posts12-31-2019 10:50amaudiozenology"Furniture is not a replacement for room treatment. It can even make things worse" |
audiozenology"I think anyone that understands anything about room treatment and acoustics knows that furniture is no substitute for room treatment" Furniture IS room treatment and you're insistence that it is not shows how again gaps in you're knowledge base is "big enough to drive a truck through." Perhaps you believe their is fairy dust in you're room treatment products that are shaped like egg-cartons? |
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audiozenology"I apologize to other members, but Clearthink has an obsession" Lets talk about audio and music and not engage insult, attacks, and angry remarks this thread is about speaker isolation. If you continue to attack, stalk, and harass me I will alert the moderators directly this is you’re final alert, warning, and caution. |
audiozenology" I have asked the moderators to deal with a member who has made 29 posts in the last 2 weeks ..." I do not need you’re permission, authorization or approval to post hear and it is not for you to limit, restrict, or discourage users from expressing opinions, sharing facts, or providing advise to the group or it’s members. |
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Like as was said, the hack is trying to do harm, while looking like he isn’t. Posts full of projected and suppositional logic, and so on. Nary a single useful functional post of any efficacy or forward motion for the forum or forum members has come from his quarter. Just attacks. The record of the hack's posts is clear and consistent. |
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teo_audio the hack is trying to do harm, while looking like he isn’t. Posts full of projected and suppositional logic, and so on.Yup. Some come here to talk about audio, others apparently have other goals and that includes disruption. What is so-ooo strange about the behavior is that as audiophiles, we already have plenty to disagree about! There’s no need to cultivate arguments that have nothing to do with audio or music. I have now drifted OT, which only adds to the problem. Eventually the mods will sort this out, as they have in the past. |
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With respect to the OP, all posts must stay on topic or they will be removed. Any posts accusing others of trolling or citing attacks will be removed as well and the User or Users that wrote them could face Temporary suspension from the forums and Audiogon. This statement pertains to all other threads as well. |
With respect to the OP, all posts must stay on topic or they will be removed. Any posts accusing others of trolling or citing attacks will be removed as well and the User or Users that wrote them could face Temporary suspension from the forums and Audiogon. This statement pertains to all other threads as well. |
Hahaha you guys got yelled at by mom. I love it! - so I added a second sub yesterday and I’m still on fence as to weather I like it or not. The stereo sub setup shares the the right and left signals vs. the single sub which was carrying the load of both signals making it seems tighter, punchier. Maybe I just need more time to play with the crossover settings, etc. |
geoffkait ... a relatively inexpensive way to boost system performance is to support all heavy furniture in the room on cones ...There are limits to what I'd do in the pursuit of fidelity, and this suggestion is an example. I want my listening room to be cozy and comfy. |
tomic601, you said, "One problem with subs is - there ain’t much music down there... listen to just them....." That seems like a strange comment coming from someone who uses Vandy 7's, which have low end response of 22Hz +/-2dB, or just under 20Hz +/- 3 dB. The speaker has built in subs. Vandy even calls them by the fancy term "Fusion Subwoofers". In fact, it's quite a complex subwoofer. An awful lot of subs reach down from about low 20's to mid teens. Pairing the OP's bookshelf speakers is an immanently sensible thing to do, although I recommended he would be far ahead by getting rid of the bookshelf speakers and getting some serious floor standers. |
Re resonators, Helmholtz resonators have to be of the correct size and dimension and in the correct location, otherwise they hurt the sound. Same with crystals, tiny bowl resonators, Mpingo disc, anything that resonates must be in the right location and be the right frequency to improve the sound. Empty beer bottles on the floor HURT the sound, not improve it. In the case of CD jewel boxes they are not the right frequency and there Hundreds of them. Hel-loo! Do the experiment, take them all out of the room. Report your findings. |
This thread seems to be segueing toward a discussion of room treatments. Okay ... fine with me. Furniture affects the sound. If you move your furniture, that affects the sound again. How is moving it not a method of room treatment? Step one: Place your speakers so you get the best sound out of them. It can take a while to get it right. Step two: optimize whatever else you can, given the room you have. Clearing it of CDs does help, so does moving bookcases and carpets around (it doesn’t have to be far), so does paying attention to the floor in front of your components and between your speakers. An empty floor is bad — Try putting something there. Really ... Try a few different things. (I settled on a teak chest.) And then re-think you speaker placement, because doing step two carefully should send you back to step one. Step three: isolation and vibration control. Try different products and approaches. I’ve got isoacoustics footers under my Ref 3a Taksims. I like them fine. Much improved bass and air. That has nothing to do with room treatment, but best to get this factor out of the way before taking up ... Step four: room treatments. Look for ones that help. Good luck with that. The best I’ve found have offered only incremental improvements and haven’t been worth it, relative to everything else I’ve done. IMHO looking for room treatments is chasing moonbeams. If your experience is different, happy for you. I’ve heard incremental changes at best, and changes aren’t usually improvements. Diffferrent is not often the same as improved. finally, Steep five: play Muddy Waters, Folk Singer all day. Because sooner or later your system’s real stumbling block in going to turn out to be the quality of the recordings you play through it. And that’s the best recorded album I know. (Second place: Laure Favre Kahn playing Reynaldo Hahn.) |