How does one get off the merry-go-round?

Clueless, touchy, touchy on vinyl's Achilles heel are we not? Look if you enjoy it, more power to you. I am just too neurotic to enjoy a system where the recording medium is damaged every time it's played. Call me nuts, I 'spose. Seems more incontrovertible that a vinyl record starts dying the minute it is played than believing that music signals bounce inside cables though. Geez, maybe I'm not so neurotic after all!

Yes, especially with a tonno e cipolla pizza!

Pbb, when I was in college and used my turn table as a pizza carousel my vinyle sounded that way too! The hell of it is those were good days and the music never sounded so good.

Sincerely, I remain

Ah... some semblance of sanity creeping in. Thank you Wehamilton. Thank you Trebleclef. No I don't see this as some great personal victory in an never ending, semi-sterile debate, but as some confirmation that music is the thing to be enjoyed. I remember someone's definition of "audiophile" as a person who upgrades his hardware until he can prove that all software is garbage. I made the point a long time back in this forum that a system should be seen as something able to reproduce a broad variety of the music a person actually wants to listen too. That one ends up with the ultimate system that is only of use with a handful of audiophile records may be the ultimate justice for those having a passion towards buying equipment and squinting to hear "differences" and "improvements", whether appreciable or "HUGE". Detlof, in keeping with the food analogy, my memory of vinyl is of solo instruments or quiet passages with the sound of bacon frying or, in the most extreme cases, popcorn popping. I can almost smell it... Which brings me to the subject of another comment I made not long ago: since music is actually air being moved in the room by some transducer, I have come to believe that the olfactory quality of that air has an effect on the perceived sound, sometimes creating "HUGE" differences. I am still in the process of assessing whether the effect is more noticeable on the equipment or the music. For now my work is limited to various run of the mill deodorizers from Wal-Mart. To ease into this endeavour, I am presently experimenting with pine scented plug-ins, sprays and solids in concert with Respighi's Pines of Rome. Other suggestions would be appreciated. Please stop short of single, double and triple blind and dead olfactory system testing for now. And to all my wine loving friends out there, I have found a way of fine tuning lesser wines by using Grand Cru Classé bottles, complete with labels. Quite astonishing, a California wine, fine tuned with a Château Pape Clément label, was more full-bodied, with a distinct woodsy quality and good blackberry and hackberry overtones. Just my contribution to a better world. Regards one and all.

Nice simile, Clueless, but I'd rather say through a thin layer of jelly-pudding, especially on big orchestral music.

rgstein: Its all been downhill since vinyle. Listening to a cd on good stuff is like looking at a vangogh through a screen door. A clean screen door though.

Sincerely, I remain

I have given up on hi-fi twice in my life:
1. I was played a demo system in which I heard distortion in the source of 9 out of 10 recordings. The 10th was clean, but I couldn't stand the music.

2. When I was no-the-air at a classical FM station, the sound we put out was terrible.

Therefore, if the source is normally sub-perfect, there's no point in spending tons of time and money on equipment superior to the "software." It is more satisfying to listen to real music on a system that "masks" the accuracy in favor of musicality.

Remember the sound of a Grundig console?

Unfortunately, that has to be my bottom line.

Richard

Sounds to me like people are getting their priorites back in line with what"s important, the music. Wehamilton, I salute your attitude. Mine is very similar. If you enjoy music for it's own sake it doesn't matter what you listen to it on per se. I find many great performances on the radio in my car, hardly an audiophile friendly environment. When I want to critically listen to something in my dedicated listening room, I listen to the state of the art system for me, considerably less than $25K, but I get much more than $25K in enjoyment out of it. Getting off of the merry go round made me realize we now have state of the art equiptment to listen to. It's great but music companies are producing mostly state of the art junk to play on it. I'd rather chase the music than the equiptment at this point. I may have changed from one merry go round to another but this one is a better ride. I enjoy audio but love the pursusit of music much more, (vinyl in particular).

I was kicked off the m-g-round. I had to sell the "dream system" before it was complete, and have remained calm since (only one power amp during the whole of 2001 -- but more than 500 pieces of music). On the other hand, I get to audition a plethora of equipment -- often @ home; this keeps investment down and the family financially happy, I suppose. It also allows me to contribute a few impressions here and there at A'gon -- which is fun and, hopefully, useful.

But, you know what? I miss the merry go round. Music & books are my daily food; equipment, my hobby -- and I enjoyed it! I didn't want to get off -- I mean, crazy systems like Detlof's (D, pls don't send the Swiss artillery yet) get me going... I wouldn't mind Kelly's Boulder either, A-Porter's pre, a pair of Osiris, and FM Acoustics' big pre with modified power supply.
For the time being, I'll have to content myself with listening to some of these items.

Something is always better than nothing... and, after all, I'm lucky to have what is now playing!

Enough banter, cheers everyone!

I recently downsized from tube separates to a solid state integrated amp and from large floor standing speakers to smaller bookshelf size speakers.
I did this for two reasons: 1. Lack of time to spend listening to this system other than for background music due to family and job commitments. Most of my "critical" listening is now done thru Grado RS-2 headphones in a 2nd system. 2. I needed smaller, better looking speakers that could work close to a wall, severely limiting my choices.
I do not have quite the same level of sound quality that I had before I started this, but the system I went to costs about 25% of what my previous stuff did new. Sound quality is about 80%. I have been able to maintain the sound quality by selecting stuff that works well together and using cables to fine tune. Component interface is a subject often overlooked by many.
I did recently purchase a used tubed dac, because I could not live w/o at least some semblance of tube sound in my system.

I recently jumped off the merry-go-round due to a business setback so the experience is fresh in my mind. I went from a new Class A system to Class B components played through some borrowed 15 year old speakers from a friend (I was happy to have anything).

It was a bit of a shock, but once I licked my wounds, I adjusted by shifting my focus from the equipment to the music. I no longer sit in the "sweet spot" and critique every note that is played and the inevitable shortcomings of the $25K worth of equipment that reproduced it. Rather, I now put on some music and go about my business as I move around the house. So while I'm not critically listening to the music, I am actually LISTENING to much more music and much less equipment.

This is not the standard audiophile approach (and it wasn't mine either), but it has changed my priorities. I've bought about 200 jazz discs, so now I actually have something to listen to, rather than a dozen or so discs that were hand selected because of the quality of the recording and their ability to show the strength or weakness of my system. So while I no longer sit and obsess over which part of my system is holding me back, I just play music and enjoy it.

I'm sure I'll upgrade again in the future, but I think this has been a good lesson for me. I didn't want or chose the cure, but it found me and now I've seen how much effort I spent pursuing equipment rather than enjoying music. Like wine lovers or any other passionate, perfectionist group of people, it's easy to lose focus and find yourself enjoying your hobby less. I now try to get my pleasure from the performance, and the emotional connection with the music. These are the things I was missing when I was listening to my equipment, and not my music.

But you know what's really sad- right now someone is probably reading this post and thinking "You can't build a Class A system for $25K, what is he talking about." I rest my case.

Yes, it does not look good. We're a bit behind here, as in everything, but there are the same signs here written on the wall. Mind you, the one, two high end stores are still making good business and HT is only beginning to hit the market now in a more serious fashion. The big record outlets have seen no vinyl for decades either. But I'm still hoping that the bug that bit us once is contageous.... Cheers, Detlof

Detlof; I do wish I were wrong. I live here in Washington DC. Of the four remaining audio stores in the area (there once were eight) they all consider themselves high end. You can get the best in electronics and turntables. Exactly NONE of them carry any vinyl. Besides the erroding of interest we are also self destructing. Tower Records has six area stores and occaisionally vinyl but not of any quality. Rarely a Classic Record reissue and then only at one outlet. The Wall Street Journal predicted last summer that they might go out of business by April if a lackluster Christmas season materialized and it did. Worst retail season in thirteen years. Used record stores have dwindled to about three or four from a high of ten three years ago. But, if you don't take this stuff too seriously,the merry go round produces a lovely ride! Again, I enjoy my music daily. Hope you do as well.

Never get on it in the first place. I did a lot of listening before i bought and then bought what i felt was a good well balanced system that smoked a few much more expensive system. I then faced the realities of the room the system was destine to live in and the limitations of what i could/would do to the room. I then looked at the low to mid-fi gear used to generate the music we so love to listen to (i've been a part time working musician going on 25 yrs now)and the fact that the room that it is played in has a huge effect on the sound on that end as well. Adding all that up i dressed my cables, put in dedicated power, concluded that given room and source limitations close counts and proceeded to buy more music. The music is what it is all about anyway, isn't it?

Not certain I was as hooked as some but an old friend pulled me off with an experience close to Detlofs. My tweaker friend sat me down to his system based on an old Dynaco 70 that he tweaked a little and speakers that he made for under $750 (scanspeak drivers). I think Vance Dickason claims you can make 10k speakers for under 1k. Well, if you know what you are doing, I think you can lower that to $750. He made a few comments about the caps he used on his tweeters and fired her up and well... it was embarrasing to think about the money I had in my system. I have since spent a little time with the old Dynacos and in my opinion, all marketing and modern "improvements" aside, they stand up to 90% of the stuff sold at at 10-20 times the price.

I do not think that this is in any way unique to audio. I used to race bicycles and had a fair amount of experience in a cycle shop. The bicycle companies are so pressed to differentiate themselves from one another, and convince you to but theirs, that they throw out a steady stream of BS that has little to do with anything. They actually avoid the obvious and simple which is proven and effective for the gimmick of the week. I had to leave the business because it was hard to present the industry line with a straight face. Granted, audio needs folks pushing the envelope to improve sound... but I do not see a lot of that going on. Lots of gloss and ego.. reading most "audiophile" mags is like looking at GQ or something.

Trebleclef, your points are hard to refute and in terms of sociological assessment probably more than correct. Looking at it that way, it is indeed a pessimistic picture. Here in Europe, people still flock to classical concerts and to opera, how much of that is social snobbery and how much true love of music is hard to say. Youngsters act much the way here too as you describe, but if you go to the local recordstores, they are ususally full of young people, but also here after the quick electronic fix, the demand for classical music has severely declined. However, I'm still hoping, that we are not a breed, that is dying out. Cheers , Detlof

Detlof: I don't mean to be pessimistic. My assesment comes from being associated with an audiophile company. I was at the Stereophile show in NY in 1996. Audio is more like a small club with rich members.Very select group.Manufactures have to impress reviewers to build demand.Reviewers are more impressd with themselves. Some reviewers have more fans than many artist. Add to the mix too many companies making software, decline in software quality,magazine distribution etc. The fact that music has been replaced by video games when it comes to young people with discretionary spending (video games are 50-70% higher than the average cd)and it all adds up to certain extinction. But, I enjoy buying music, (records mostly) and do so daily.I haven't had a significant change in my reference system in almost 12 years. Once I found the Quads and an adequate sub woofer system, significant changes are hard to make!! I did get a better listening chair.

Tubegroover, if your only regret is the cost, then actually you belong to the more lucky ones. If you can afford it, why not spend it. Life is too short, to castigate yourself, unless you are of fundamentalist disposition, where your rewards will be in heaven. Wether we're a bunch of compulsive neurotics or on a noble quest depends on your point of view. I personally think that Papa Freud was right, when he said, that the essentials of a healthy life were the ability to work and to ENJOY oneself. I'm probably a bit longer in this quest of ours than you are and my experience is - also after listening to many megabuck systems, costing several hundred thousand bucks - that there comes a time, when "improvements" happen only in very tiny steps, the cost of which is entirely out of proportion. Happy Listening! Detlof

Detlof Yes indeed and happy I am but I want to be happier :). The problem is the compulsive search for the best which is fortunately/unfortunately, depending on the view, the course I'm on. I have designs on one of those ultraexpensive products which will make my "arrival" a reality (does that ever really happen?). The final purchase, for now. I been saying this all along but with each improvement the envelope is pushed further. Ironically the improvements are the driving force to see how much better it can get. You're a shrink, you tell me. A drive for excellence/perfection or obsessive/compulsive behavior (the merry-go-round syndrome).

Truly it is about the music and I never knew reproduced audio could be realized to this extent. Just wonder how much better it can get, thats all. Only regret is the cost
:(

So far as those products you mention, they mirrow my own lust wish but a decade forward. The Threshold SA-1 monos and ARC D-250 Servo and M-100 monos were my introduction into hi-end back in the mid 80's. Even ended up purchasing a lowly Class AB Threshold amp but unfortunately it wasn't in the same league as the SA-1's. I went tubes and never looked back. Now it's OTL amps which to me are the best yet. Will it stop there? I sure hope at that point the reconciliation you speak of is realized!!

Tubegroover, isn't happyness the main thing? And the drive for perfection is a noble endevour, is it not? And if we do not make our loved ones unhappy or harm them with what we are doing, why shouldn't we? Mind you, and I've been at it for over 35 years, there comes a point, when you will reconcile yourself with the fact, that you will NEVER be able to simulate real, live music in all its wonderful entirety and that you can leave your system more or less as it is and just enjoy the music. What helps here, is the realisation, that really old gear, like the Threshold Stasis amps of the seventies, or the AR 79 tube amp, not to speak of the 120, that wonderful Quad 57 or the ML 25 watter, class A monos still hold their own, when compared to modern gear. There have been huge advances in loudspeakers, but comparing the old stuff to modern designs, I doubt a bit, if really essential breakthroughs in electronic designs have happened. Possibly my ears are just sentimental and I'm indeed using modern electronics, but I find the differences are not that huge to really be "blown away". What has changed though, is our perception of recorded music and our way to describe it. We have developed a vocabulary, that was not around fourty years ago and if we apply it to vintage gear, I at least have found, that it is not doing badly at all. Cheers! Detlof

Well Detlof, my experience is the opposite of yours, gone from music lover to audiophile, that is as of late. I'm spending too damn much money and time on this gear business but then again I am rediscovering the music I already have and am very happy, for the time being. How long does it last before the next tweek/big purchase? Seems to be getting shorter as the compulsion grows. This audiophile business is an addiction I'm afraid. And this site sure doesn't do anything to remedy it.

Trebleclef, we must be brothers in arms! The Quads are the centre of my system as well, I hunt after good music on Lp and CD, I'm having fun and in the course of the years, to borrow a phrase of Sean's, have turned from audiophile to music lover. Interesting your remark, that the hobby might die out with us. Here I am less pessimistic than you seem to be, because surely there will always be folks ,who love music and who will try to recreate it in their homes, like we do.

I got off the merry go round after attending a Stereophile show and met some of the circus clowns. Just because so and so uses this or that as a reference or purchased an item means nothing to me now! Most are over obsessed babies when you disagree with them. In ten years time there won't be a high end audio as the hobby does nothing to perpetuate new/younger people to participate. I have more than adequate
high end system (built around Quad ESL'S) but now concentrate on my real passion, record collecting, and, listening. And, having fun!!

you know what's worse.... when you do all this research, spend all this money only to realize you made a mistake. I have a Toshiba 57HX81 widescreen TV that is just too damn big for my room. It wouldn't be if I didn't have a nice sofa and chairs, not to mention a coffee table.

I've been searching for speakers for the past 4 months. Last night I almost said "freak it" for lack of better word I can't say on here. I thought I had found my speakers only to relaize that they're rear ported and require significant room to breathe, which my room has no more of.

Since you seem to be into guns. I guess I should also noted the Remington M700 synthectic .300 mag with McMillian stock, custom bedded, fluted barell, and Swavorwski scope. Also a 30mm, helmet sighted chain gun, but that really belongs to my employer.

Gunbunny, your post hits home with me. I own two custom made Tad Kohara pool cues. Two early 1980's custom Les De Asis Balisong knives. A Beretta 92 Border Marshall, a Springfield Armory 45, a Desert Eagle and a Benelli M1 Super 90. And I shoot LESS than you. But this audio bug is the absolute worst. This merry-go-round is making me dizzy.

True,true Greg, well it was through the Goldmund and also through the souped up Sony 777 and indeed, as you suggest, this experiment stopped me from pleasing my dealer!
Cheers,

Ahem, Detlof (polite cough), music thru a Goldmund Reference? They must have been on their absolutely best-mannered behaviour :^)!
Similarly, I pulled out a Symphonic Line pre, to test it against a mega$ offering. I can assure you it surpassed itself!

Morale: always allow existing players a second chance. It may be cheaper than recruiting someone from the marketplace!

I have an old Threshold Stasis amp from the mid seventies, which at that time set me back less than three thousand bucks new! I took it up from the basement and connected a pair of Quads to it through inexpensive wires and an old Krell KBL from the eighties. The combination sounded great, even to my spoilt and not quite inexperienced ears. Now if that is not food for thought......I'll leave it to you to draw your own conclusions..I've certainly drawn mine. It sure slowed down my merry go out and update!

I'm the type of person that HAS to have best I can find, usualy after exhaustive research, that I can possibly afford without hurting myself. It's a curse.

I could go on forever, but to give an example... I wanted to sell my Mongoose bike for a Redline when I was 12. I bought top-of-the-line Volkl snow skis at 16, and my first pistol was a Sig Sauer that I later sold for a Kimber .45 custom. I shoot it maybe twice a year.

I think the way to not get carried away with any hobby is to diversify your interst. It keeps you from focusing (obsessing) over any one thing. Take fitness for instance. There are people that are so into physical fitness that they make vacation decisions around what workout facilites are available.

Most audiophile's homes I've been to have had thier priorites way out of wack. This past weekend I went to a guy's house that had worse furniture than I had in college, the fence was falling down, an old 19" TV and a $50,000 sound system. Part of this were 2 huge Viva tube amps on stands right in the middle of the living room where a coffee table should be.

This year I'm buying a new CD player and speakers. I'm also going to Jamacia in the spring and sportfishing off Cape Hatteras, NC. No, I'm not buying any $10,000 speakers and $2500 CD player. I think the Soliloquy 5.3 and Cambridge D500SE will serve me fine, for now.

Sure is, Mark! Love your wry humour! but I'm sure you'll soon be back in there again. Time heals wounds and checkbooks!

I've found divorce to be efficacious.

Just let go.

I managed to stop for about ten years. I just reached a point where further upgrading would cost more than I could possibly afford at the time, and my system was working together well. So, I got off the bus, cancelled all of my magazine subscriptions and just used my system for listening to music. Then, about a year ago, several things happened...I got a Sony DVP-S9000ES for use as a DVD player. Hooked the analog outs to my main rig...CD has improved a bit over the past ten years. Then, I wanted to burn some LP's onto CD. Went into a used stereo store to find a reasonable used TT and phono preamp...listened to some speakers...and then it was too late...

Hello, my name is Hirsch and I am an audiophile.

I got off the 'go round for about 7 yrs. Back then I was starting a family and really couldn't afford the gear I really liked so I relied upon whatever local used gear I could pick up here and there. Where I live the pickin's were and still are very slim; I got what I could tweaked and enjoyed the music. After pouring through a 4 yr subscription to Stereophlie I really was deep into my cognitive deprivation, so I trashed 'em all and got out! Now I am back, but for only a spell, because my access to broadband internet access has brought the wider market place closer to me. The gear I coveted while brand new 7-10 years ago can now be had for fractions of what they went for then. I am like a kid in the candy store :-) My taste have always been modest, so products from the like's of Adcom, Audioquest, CAL, Magnepan and Kimber Kable will keep me happy and content for at least the next 10 yrs. I am off again, soon, and back to enjoying the music, love and life. You all take care and happy listening.

Don't read the magazines. It's a simple as that. Magazine reviews often grossly exagerate (or fabricate) the differences between audio components, making you believe that your 5 year old equipment is obsolete. It's nonsense. (Not that I blame them ... they have to pander to the equipment manufacturers since commercials pay their salaries). With the exception of digital source equipment I don't believe that audio equipment's price / performance ratio has changed at all in the last 20 years. My new Densen B100 sounds very good, but so does my 15 year old Cyrus2/PSX (driving 10 year old Spica Angelus speakers). Quality then is quality now, and if you write the cost off over 10-15 years you'll afford a much better rig than if you upgrade every 2 years.

Listener magazine calls it Hi Fi Hell...

The only way to come out is to forget the system & listen to the music. What types of music you listen to will determine what equipment level is necessary. If you're exclusively into classical and audiophile recordings, then you're SOL. You'll need top of the line stuff to be happy, if ever. If, for example, you're into chamber music and/or acoustic jazz, then some decent electrostatic setup will provide satisfaction. In my case, I listen to everything. This is the hardest system to rig, but it is also the easiest one to forget. That's my goal.

The above reason is exactly why I purchased a Technics 1200 turntable vs an 'audiophile' belt drive. I purposedly decided to stay at that level so as not to be trapped in Hi Fi Hell. I used to work at an Audio/Video store in my senior year in college. There was a $20,000.00 MacIntosh rig with a pair of B&W 801s. The only two rock groups that could be played there were Pink Floyd and Alan Parsons Project. Why would I want such a system? Now I bought a pair of JMlab Tantal 509s. Bingo! I can play classical, jazz, heavy metal, salsa, ANYTHING. The system is revealling enough that it gives me goose bumps on good recordings of good music, but is also tolerant of the rest.

Hope this serves you well.

Regards,

why get off? i have no where to go so i work on secondary systems and video. i love music. it is fun to buy ,sell, and trade. when i finished my main system it was kinda sad. so i put a little av system together in the living room,and a ht system in the hall.it took years of buying and selling to reach where i am. you guys no what i am talking about.

I had not really enjoyed music for quite a while. I spent around $2,500.00 in 1982 for components, which was a lot of money to me. This didn't include speakers, as I had my Rogers Soundlabs Studio Monitors. Somewhere along the way, I lost the need for good sound, as was actually listening to CD's on my computer. Then in April of 2001 I found out my best friend, who happened to be my dog had bone cancer. Sometimes out of the bad, some good can emerge. Being that we were homebound, I started looking at home theater stuff on the net. The more I searched, the more my old love of music came back. I settled on a Bryston SP1, 2 each 4BST's, a 3BST, ProAc Response 2.5's, One SC's, CC one, Sunfire True Sub Sig, California Audio Labs transport, and DAC's, Magnum Dynalab tuner, with AQ python IC's, AQ Caldera speaker cable, and a Toshiba 40H80 digital TV. I'm happy with my choices. I also ended up with some extras such as Totem Acoustic Model One Sig's, ditto center channel, Totem Mites, HSU Research sub, Onkyo A/V receiver, etcetera. I have a stereo setup also, Bryston BP25 preamp, Bryston 4B amp, ProAc Tablette 2000 Sig speakers, Target R4 stands, more AQ IC's and Cable, Rega Planet 200 CD player. That's a lot of traveling through electronics in 6 months. I guess that my point is that it was a distraction at a point in my life when I needed to be distracted. If your audio purchases are causing you consternation, it could help to look at what is going on in your life that you might feel the need to be distracted from. Audiophiles may not consider Bryston/ProAc worthy of their listening, but they sure work for me. I want to extend my appreciation to the members of Audiogon, as I would never have achieved my level of satisfaction without the class, and expertise exhibited every day on this site.

What the hell? Just when I was sure you were ALL crazy, some sanity breaks through. Glad to feel less lonely here.
Charlie

about 4 years ago i found myself happy with my system, top grade components, musical sound (tubes), and i found that tweaks and other things that were hyped in the mags (rags) did nothing to make my system sound better. so i cancelled my subscriptions to all of the magazines and concentrated my time and money on records, cd's etc. with the money saved i was able to assemble a large collection which i played regularily. then i bought a computer and i discovered this and other audiophile links. i also bought one issue of each magazine. guess what, nothing has changed! same reviews, same bs regarding whose equipment is best, biggest, etc. much of what i see on these sites can be helpful, if you are having problems, but comments re tweaks and equipment testimonials have to be taken with at least 2 grains of salt. the key to getting off the equipment merry-go-round is to become goal oriented re exactly what you are trying to do and when you reach that goal, listen to music.

Great post Pbb, if I may say so!

Until a driver in one of my speakers developed a small tear near the surround, I had not changed anything in my system for over ten years. This was partly due to career and family pressures, so I take no credit for it; it was not some sort of Pentecost. As I have mentioned before in this forum, I stopped reading the zany, wacky audio press all together around 1991 or 1992, taking peeks at the mags on the newsstand now and again only to convince myself that the insanity had, indeed, progressed beyond the critical stage. Because of the damaged driver, I decided to replace my speakers and only then started looking again and, with this newfangled web thing, found Audiogon. I admit that there is a fun factor involved in audio. However, at its outer limits (which I find are reached much more often and much more quickly now days!) the whole thing makes me cringe, seeing as though it has lost sight of what the whole process is about in the first place: the music. If I have developed one credo over the years, it would be something like this: buy the best system you can realistically afford, now and again if you really think that a major development has improved the reproduction of music, shop carefully and buy the component, bringing and keeping your system at a good level of competence, but through it all concentrate on the music, preferably by attending live events as much as possible. If you feel like buying hardware, make a quick calculation of how many recordings you could buy with that money or which live event coming up in some city within striking distance from your home you could attend. Read about music and musicians, not equipment. Remember that any change in a system, (whether real or brought about by the placebo effect) is almost invariably thought to be an improvement on first hearing. One thing that I did learn in coming back to the audio marketplace after being out of it for such a long time is, at least insofar as speakers are concerned, but I am sure this holds true for other components, that you get a lot more for your dollar these days and that spending double or triple (or even greater multiples for that matter!) will not double or triple your enjoyment. Don't feel you are missing out by not buying the most expensive component. I can attest that there are real value leaders out there. I replaced Thiel 3.5s with Paradigm Reference Studio 100s. I wanted Thiel CS 6s or Dynaudio Contour 3.3s. Thiels are not really available locally and with the current exchange rate would be exorbitant. I auditioned the Dynaudios and, although great speakers, could not justify spending 12Ks on them when the Canadian made Paradigms were a little over 2Ks. I heard Vandersteen 5s at 18Ks locally and was mightily impressed, inter alia, with the bass. I am thinking of adding a Paradigm subwoofer to approximate the experience, it may or may not work, I'll see. There's always two ways (well at least, but let's keep things simple here) to look at things: I could feel that I am missing out on the subtle differences the costlier speakers may provide or that I am getting the best deal out there. Actually, the choice is also yours. Remember, the ego thing can pave your way to the poor house. If all else fails, you can do like I did and at the ripe old age of 47 try to learn to play an instrument. I can honestly say that I have no discernable musical talent, but that, as a result of picking-up the guitar and literally plodding forward, I have improved my appreciation of music and musicians to a very great degree. When I listen to Django Reinhardt or Charlie Christian, I don't mind the thin sound of older recordings as much and am only beginning to understand what such men have meant to music. I could multiply the examples, but I don't wish to bore anyone. By the way, now I am hooked on collecting guitars, but that's another story...

Actually, I think here it would be friends of Bill J(ohnson).

Dekay... I got na fends on "de outside" and my pawole offiser only lets mi out once a weak. The Wardun does however let mi keep my Grado headfones on wheneber my cel mate starts a swear'in and a cuss'in.

Lorne: Are you a friend of Bill W's? My wife once attended a meeting of the Beverly Hills chapter in the 80's at which a young gentleman who once attempted to rob "The Saloon" in BH's while dressed up as a cowboy (think "Rhinestone Cowboy") and high on cocaine, got up to speak. Nobody took him seriously during the robbery attempt and he was arrested without mishap as he had no intention of firing the six-shooter (which was not even loaded).

Trelja, Leafs, and other “recovering audiophiles”:

Have you checked to see if your region has a local AA (Audiophiles Anonymous) chapter? Our group meets every week at the local Radio Shack where we listen to MP3, boom boxes, but mostly just talk about downgrading.

Many of us were normal folks, you know -- nice people – good job, loving family, close friends and decent power cords. With me, it started with interconnects. One, two, and then sometimes three a day! After a month or so, I just couldn’t start my day without de-oxidizing that Golden Cross one more time. It was real bad.

But I am happy to say I’m getting better now. I now only reach for that hidden box of Black Diamond Racing Cones when I just can’t get to sleep without a tweak.

At our chapter of AA, we follow a proven 10-step program.

1. The First Step is Admitting You DO have a Problem: I remember my first meeting -- real scary. I had to stand up before the entire group of recovering audiophiles and admit I had three preamps! And that sometimes I couldn’t face the day until I tried mixing tubes and solid state just one more time. Clearly, I needed help. So I embarked on the 9 other steps to recovery listed below:

2. Always Attend Your Local AA Meetings: Last meeting, there was this one guy who came wearing his Stax Lamdas and just couldn’t take them off. Another guy lashed out at other group members with a PowerSnake he had brought along when the group leader suggested that he try unfiltered AC for a week. Poor guy, we had to restrain him with #12 gauge speaker wire and forcefully remove the Bybee filters from his Maggies.

3. Gradual Downgrading – A Sure Way of Getting Off the Wagon: Start slowly. Try cutting your Nearfield Pipedreams in half, or removing the “Martin” from your ML’s so they just say “Logan”. That’s a start. But don’t be too rash -- I once put a Redbook CD in my Sony SACD player and was so hung over with digital grain that I missed the next two meetings.

4. Help Other AA’s Recover: Tell your fiends to resist those Revel Salons, say “no” to that pair of Merlins up for auction, and give the new 10 ft. Nordost Valhallas to their daughter to skip rope with. (Remember, to remove the spades, as kids prefer bananas)

5. Abstain and Stay Clean: Go to eBay and bid on anything Bose. After you’ve set up a surround sound system connected to a Circuit City source, invite your friends over for a “Bose party” Start by hooking the 901’s to your 1000-Watt Classe Omega. Slowly, slowly turn up the volume, and then remove your earplugs. It helps if you are standing next to glass or any other reflective surface so you can really catch those 2nd order harmonics. Did I mention itis beneficial to remove all carpeting and put mirrors on the ceiling?

6. Limit Exposure to Those who Would Corrupt Us: When visiting the CES in Las Vegas, stay in the hotel hosting MP3, visit the “worst of show”, car audio, and Bose (maybe the same as “worst of show”). See if you have the willpower to stay out of any good sounding rooms. Be strong: you can fight temptation!

Last show I spent an entire day inside the Kenwood Van -- the one with the 22” woofers. After that I couldn’t hear anything, so I was immune to the temptations of Levinson, Red Rose, Lamm and some of that strong sounding German stuff, Burnmester, I think it was called.

7. Avoid Relapses: If you must visit a friend with good equipment, bring your Jensen headphones and a hidden MP3 player. If you wear the in-ear design, no one will ever suspect you are “wearing a wire” and not really listening to the Accuphase that your host is hopelessly hooked on.

8. Counsel Your Fellow AA Members: Remind other recovering audiophiles that 2 channel is dead, SACD and 8-track sound about the same, with a slight edge in hiss to 8-track, and that it’s OK if your amp clips now and then.

9. Gradually recover: Crank up that subwoofer, move your system to an all glass room, go back those Chinese tubes. Hell, I even downsample my 24/96 CD to 16 bit by hooking up my DAC backwards. It really works – the graininess is back, soundstage folds up like a tent in a high wind, and my wife says I’m less spend less time fiddling with wires in the back.

10. Stop Temptation Before it Starts. Begin by visiting only the HT section of audiogon. Then abandon audiogon altogether. Stop all subscriptions to Absolute Sound, Stereophile, and especially those highly addictive British mags. Shop by reading the classified of local newspapers, set your browser to search “Realistic”, or buy your speakers from the famous white van man when he visits your local supermarket parking lot.

Congratulations! You’ve reached the Final Stage: You’re off the wagon; now stay off!

Get a job a Circuit City. If there’s no Circuit City, then a Best Buy will do. (Ask to work in the car stereo or portable audio section.) Trust the good advice of your fellow workers and learn from their knowledge. But remember, when you become Manager, you must immediately fire any staff member who tempts you by uttering the words “SACD”, “separates” or “tubes”. And be sure to train your co-workers to tell customers “the bigger the woofer the better”, and “you can’t hear anything above 10KHz”, so why bother, “just hook everything up to your PC”.

All in good fun --- however, the last sentence contains, believe it or not, actual quotes from Future Shop employees (Canada’s equivalent of Circuit City).

Have a great weekend --Lorne

G13!, great to see you again Joe! My take on this is that this hobby should have some sort of direction. It should have a destination. Once that destination is reached, there is not that much more future buying needed. Maybe a big step up as a result of having a lot more money than you did 5 or 10 years ago. Maybe a new player when a new format takes hold. A cable here, a cable there. Maybe a used piece of equipment for sentimental reasons. Something built or modified because it is both fun and educational. Not the kind of turnover that would make a fast food restaurant blush. The most important investment one can make is in themselves. More important than ANY piece of equipment one will EVER buy. First, get to know everything about your tastes, and what you want out of this hobby. What kind of music and sound you like, what kind of room you will listening in, and your budget. You will then be able to seek out and buy(after a thorough audition) the kind of equipment that will provide you with LASTING(!!!) enjoyment of your music. Ask yourself, what is the purpose of me being an audiophile? Is it to be music lover or a gear lover? That will probably answer more questions, and be the best fortune teller there is in this whole hobby. If you are a gear lover, and find the music secondary(we KNOW audio has WAYYYYYYY more of these people than admit to it), read this next sentence very carefully(read it again if needed). YOU WILL NEVER GET OFF THE MERRY-GO-ROUND!!! There it is. Straight, no chaser. Face facts. These people are always tweaking, modifying, upgrading, changing. Saying that they are getting more enjoyment out of their system today than ever before, but appearing as crazy as a loon. The only difference between them and a madman is that they are not mad.

Hey Drubin, you talking to me? I took a 7 year break, does that qualify? I was hardcore from the late 80's to the early 90's ( Krell, Coda, Audio Research, EAD, Proceed, etc.) I found myself so wrapped up in family, that I had no time to listen. I have 3 boys who like sports, I got started coaching and had no time for listening. I found the only thing that 'cured' me was downgrading. I mean nothing real drastic, Parasound and McCormack, nice stuff by many standards. I lived happily for 7 years with the same gear, imagine that. I didn't listen much, to be honest, once a month if I was lucky. As the boys got older and I got more time, early in 2001 I got back into it. I've been ecstatic! It's wonderful to be back! I'm back up to Proceed and Classe and such stuff, damn I feel like I can breath again. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the family time, but it's great to get back to a hobby that you REALLY enjoy. The music just moves me like never before. When you leave the field for 7 years, you'd be surprised how much technology can develop. Oh well, my advice would be, if you're burnt out,take a break. This great stuff will be here when you return. Enjoy the music.

Gthirteen, I'm not laughing at all. You definitely killed whatever buzz I had workin. Damn, that's hard, I only have two or three more upgrades to go before I get to the promised land. Now what?

g13: most excellent post. i don't envy your staring law school soon. i graduated law school (univ. of iowa) just over 32 years ago. it was the most unpleasant 3 years i ever lived. i might have been voluntarily committed were it not for my music and my friends in the art and writing community. rest assured, if you do well and start makin' the big bucks, you'll jump back on the merry-go-round with a whole fistful of tickets, reaching for all you're worth for the big brass ring. -kelly