08-18-15: Wolf_garcia …and my 5 decades as an audio geek has made me utterly over-qualified to opine about spiky things (sorry Robert, I don't borrow anything requiring me to disassemble my audio pile). Not. LOL. Robert called it. So, Squeezebox, Jolida JD502P, and Vienna Bach's and/or Wharedales and apparently Vibrapods, what are you working with? Vibrapods to Preludes After spiking speakers seemingly since first supporting stereo stuff self seriously, I've succumbed to a set of Vibrapods under Silverlines. It defies logic and makes me realize that maybe everything I know is wrong but damn, it works swimmingly. Sweeter mids, wider and more stable soundstage, etc. Go figure...who knew? Where am I? Wolf_garcia (Threads | Answers | This Thread) |
What about the Hornsby basketball session? To quote Art Dudley, "Remove all spiked feet from your playback system and sell them for scrap." And that quote is from somebody who likely didn't shoot hoops with Hornsby, so is he qualified to opine? Also Agear, don't forget my very expensive cable…it's all silver supposedly…just that alone should allow me to poke fun at strangely insecure (and utterly humorless) Fundamentalist Spike Theorists. |
Wolf_garcia. if Dudley said that my limited respect for him is much lower. The revelation for me was in trying Star Sound Audio Points under the Tripoint Troy Signature. There is something magic about the Audio Points.
The proof is always in the pudding. I just wish Star Sound made 3 inch Audio Point based on those under the Rhythms with 1/4 20 threads. I strongly suspect they would be better. |
I don't know what particular "spikes" Art was referencing. Over the years I've use a variety of spikes and cones. The brass Audio Points were in a different class of sound quality, just plain better. I believe that the quality of material, manufacturing and engineering is what distinguishes one product from another. They can't all be grouped together as if they are all the same. Charles, |
Wolf, you appear too insecure to have an adult conversation with Robert and follow through on that demo offer. I am confused...
Art Dudley needs to do some more careful listening....;) |
Wipser, after all the vitriol that your innocent little review generated, do you have any follow up impressions or thoughts? |
I usually find common ground with Art Dudley on a number of things, and I was really taken aback by his suggestion of removing spikes, especially since he didn't (in my opinion) give any clear supporting reasons for doing so. |
Well, I had my Lampizator dac on the floor for the past few weeks due to the room being a construction zone. I just popped it back on a SP101 stand a few days ago and was reminded how much impact these things have.... |
Great thread to read. I've been using Herbies products under my components which sit on an Adona rack while my monoblocks sit on a maple slab on the floor.
Anybody here try an Apprentice under their components on a non Star Sound rack? I've got some Apprentice platforms coming but it'll be a little while before I find out. I'm going try them under everything but was just curious if others have experience with Star Sound products in use with other racks/platforms. I read one guy on another forum say they don't play well with other products but he didn't expound on it. |
T_ramey, it may not help you much, but I used an SS Apprentice on a Accapella platform on a Stillpoints ESS rack with SP Grids under my Koda K-10. I fully realize that this represents a conflict between the philosophies of SPs and SST. Later when I got the SST Rhythm rack, the sound greatly improved.
The Rhythm is both more expensive and far superior to the Apprentice. |
T_ramey, I would talk to Robert. Typically, SS products are designed to be used solo.... |
Thanks guys for the replies.
When I get them in this week I give it a go and if I like what I hear I'll give Robert a call and see what other possibilities there are. My monoblocks will be on the floor with just the Apprentices underneath but I'll try my preamp that sits on the Adona rack as well and see. Here's what the star sound website says about the apprentices...
"These platforms are designed for use with Amplifiers, Loudspeakers, Sub-Woofers, Components, and Turntables, Electronic components resting atop any type of Racking or Wood Shelving and Out-board crossover networks, Televisions – in fact any type of equipment used in the music, video and recording science and entertainment industries." |
T_ramey, talk to Robert. I have heard him say otherwise.... |
T_ramey, I have used SS apprentice platforms raised up on ironwood blocks for a few reasons. 1, my floor is a tiny bit too soft due to a thin layer of cork under the wood. 2, I believe it raises parts out of the bass wave zone at the floor. 3. helps eliminate static electricity from the floor. As I understand the principals of Star Sound Stuff, they pass vibrational energy to earth ground, mechanical ground. the opposite of damping and defusing mechanical vibration. End result... much more inner detail that defines the soundstage, tonal energy, and realism. So... putting something between the platform and mechanical earth ground may be detrimental to the platforms function and thusly, the sound quality. Please let us know what you discover at your place? cheers Dave |
Received the Apprentice platforms and immediately put them under my pre/dac/source on my Adona rack and heard an instant improvement over the Herbie's. After a phone call in to Robert at Star Sound (great guy btw) I decided to take out the Adona rack and place them on the floor and got an even better improvement. Everything everybody has been saying is true...more natural relaxed sound but with better detail and insight into the music. Love these platforms!
Saving my pennies for a couple of Rhythm's for my speakers! |
|
T_ramey, congrats on the apprentice! and thank you for your descriptions. And Yes, Robert from Star Sound is a good guy to talk with. I love the apprentice too, was surprised but the level of improvement and bought 5. I also have 4 Rhythm platforms, which took a considerable time to afford. The Rhythms are at least 3 times better, and 3 times more expensive. I don't plan on stacking higher than 2 shelf rack but would like to have 3, two shelf Rhythm racks and 2 Rhythm Speaker stands ($12,000).
Does it bother anyone else the the word Rhythm has no vowels"'?"'' well half a vowel. ;-) Cheers D |
Dave give me two words with double u's as vowels. Skiing bothers me but I love to do it. |
Next up, give me a word with three double letters in a row. |
Ok guys, I received a pair of Rhythm RP1 platforms last week to put under my speakers and just as Robert said the stage got much bigger and much more defined. I was using a couple of Apprentice 103's before the Rhythms showed up and they were great but now everything is bigger more alive.
One thing that was also very noticeable was the bass. Bigger, deeper, and more articulate and makes me understand why guys have said that these platforms have great effect under subwoofers.
I know none of this is new to you guys who have lived with these Star Sound platforms but if you're reading this and wondering if they're worth it or not all I can say is YES! It's an excellent product that lives up to its claim. |
T ramey, Star Sound is a no nonsense high quality company. I'm glad the Rhythm platforms worked out so well in your system. |
Mapman, I have a Concord recording of the LA 4 outdoors. Of course, it has no ambience, but the dynamics are captured, presumably because a good recording engineer. With my much improved system, it actually sound like I am there at the recording.
I also have another outdoor recording in Brazil that is very confused sounding. I do know in this case that it was not done on a stage as was the above recording. I was involved in seeking to record an outdoor jazz band. I think it takes much time at that endeavor to become good at it. |
T_Ramey, I am glad you are enjoying the new platforms. SS stuff works. It has from the beginning. Audiophiles and competitors love to piss on SS, but at the end of the day, it works. Imagine if your entire room and/or walls was grounded in such a manner....:) |
Agear,
Unfortunately I can only imagine...but I did try to get an AudioCircle member to visit you and check out your room and report back to me but I'm not sure if he was interested. Goes by jtwrace and lives in the Charlotte area.
I have family in Knoxville, TN and would love to visit when I'm over there, I just don't know when that will be. I'm in AZ. As far as you know are you the only one that has had SS come out and create a Energy Room? |
T_Ramey, I know Jason. He lives a little north of me in Huntersville, NC. I am the forerunner, but I know they have a few more planned. Paradoxically, we are moving in the spring, so I will have to recycle the whole experiment. That's okay though. It was fun. Clement Perry from Stereotimes will be rolling through in early December to do a formal review, so I have to get my act together....:) |
I wish the reviewer was someone other than Clement Perry. I'd love to read a review of a starsound designed listening room but I have no faith in Mr. Perry's judgment or honesty. I have read too many reviews by him that are largely composed of self-praise and techno babble from the manufacturer's website. In addition to that, he often seems to be uncomfortably chummy with many of them. His writing style is long on hyperbole unsupported by facts, or even useful comparisons to other products. When he does mention a possible sonic shortcoming in a product, he usually backtracks on his comments and says it was his system, or maybe just his imagination, or in any case no big deal. I would say he's the opposite of a Martin Collums or Anthony Cordesman. |
Roxy, I don't share your concerns. Clement has been a fan of Dale Pitcher's stuff, and has never owned or reviewed it. He is also a fan of SS and Lampizator having owned neither. Besides, the room is a freight train, and is hard to miss irregardless of associated equipment. It sounds good with vintage Bestbuy grade stuff and Craigslist speakers.
Have is TVAD doing these days??? |
I use Taoc ASR II racks which are good value and well made modular racks using composite shelves, die cast aluminum frame & cast iron spacers. Are their better racks? Sure, though I just use my rack as an inert platform for my Stillpoints feet. I have a significant investment in Stillpoints & agree, proper isolation matters. The improvements I've heard are remarkable. |
Andrew, Have you discussed with Robert the differences between the Rhythm and Backstage as platforms for your speakers? I haven't spoken to Robert in some time but I know he's quite proud of the Backstage as a supreme product. Perhaps the Rhythm comes close for less money. I suspect both are terrific platforms. Charles, |
Great question Charles1dad, as far as aesthetics go I prefer the look of the Backstage and think it would be a better fit for my speakers vs the Rhythms. |
That's my concern...he's a fan of too many things. As far as Tvad is concerned, I have no idea, but I hope that he's well. |
Hi John (Roxy54), I've found Robert to be very candid about his product's hierarchy. I was very pleased with using their basic brass Audio Points. He said the Apprentice is a clear step upwards and he was right. I believe it simply becomes a matter of individual cost ceiling/budget restraint. Given Robert's track record, I suspect the Rhythm and Backstage are that good. I'm very happy with the Apprentice, so I don't lust after the higher tier platforms at this time. I don't doubt their quality. Charles, |
10-22-15: Charles1dad Andrew, Have you discussed with Robert the differences between the Rhythm and Backstage as platforms for your speakers? I haven't spoken to Robert in some time but I know he's quite proud of the Backstage as a supreme product. Perhaps the Rhythm comes close for less money. I suspect both are terrific platforms. Charles, I have not. I am sure there is a substantial improvement. I was really hoping to snag a prototype of the stage (all brass) but to no avail.... |
10-22-15: Roxy54 That's my concern...he's a fan of too many things. As far as Tvad is concerned, I have no idea, but I hope that he's well. If you have any experience with SS, then use your intuition and extrapolate to what a treated room would do. The reviewer is immaterial TBH.... Update your system page! I am a fan of TVAD, but I would prefer seeing your system.... |
John, Sorry about my response to you. I thought your comment" he's a fan of too many things" was in reference to Robert of Star Sound rather than C. Perry. My apology. |
Anybody here own the Backstage platforms? If so, where under do you have them placed? |
Charles, No problem at all. I was speaking about Clement. I have nothing but affection and respect for Robert. |
John, Audiogon has a new system building platform. Take a look at it, and we can help disarticulate you from TVAD....unless of course TVAD is an alter ego.... |