How an audio rack can enhance your amp/pre

Well I just discovered palm trees could be very beneficial to my system's sound, so why not Jerusalem almonds?

If we open up the SS rods, you will find marshmallows or something along those lines....

So as not to pick on SRA only, here is an inside shot of an original Stillpoint that I owned (and they do indeed work):

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy9/Heather_Gear/Attachment-1_zpsa4khby3x.jpeg

08-01-15: Bodhi
Cheers Agear, though I don't think any more or less wise than most folk here. I've been thinking of posting a thread about my experience with stillpoints, so I might post a separate thread in the tweaks section in the next day or two.

Feel free to share here. Others have in regards to competing products. You need a system page. That would provide more insight.....

Cheers Agear, though I don't think any more or less wise than most folk here. I've been thinking of posting a thread about my experience with stillpoints, so I might post a separate thread in the tweaks section in the next day or two.

08-01-15: Bodhi
@Theaudiotweak, The Big Bang vs Stillpoints = no contest. Putting the breaks on vibration is what they do. That's ALL they do! (sorry, Terminator moment). The bottom line: It may get hot in the kitchen, but these devices don't break a sweat. Come to think of it, Stillpoints offer great high end 'bang for the buck'!

Bodhisattva, can you detail your experiences with this subject? I thank you in advance for returning to this wheel of becoming and bestowing your wisdom upon us....

@Theaudiotweak, The Big Bang vs Stillpoints = no contest. Putting the breaks on vibration is what they do. That's ALL they do! (sorry, Terminator moment). The bottom line: It may get hot in the kitchen, but these devices don't break a sweat. Come to think of it, Stillpoints offer great high end 'bang for the buck'!

The source of all vibration started with the Big Bang and are still in motion. Lets hope they don't stop moving for awhile.Tom

During my last abduction by the reptiles, they downloaded some of their wisdom on vibration management. The universe is ultimately composed of vibrations, and it is more important to "tune" your system to said vibrations than to squelch them. Apparently, it is essential to address what they called "nano-ripples" represent the fine, outermost ring of that universal vibration. We do not currently have measurement tools sensitive enough to measure them, but they showed me a blueprint of how to address them in an audio stand. The closest analogy to this phenomena is Schumann resonance.

I will commence work on a proprietary set of stands that will become the new benchmark in audio. The reptiles do not claim patent rights, but simply asked me to acknowledge their collective wisdom and contribution to mankind.

Topten

Maybe you were referring to these 99 balloons.
Nena - 99 Luftballons - YouTube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CnDvtwYn6I

But you still have the issue of self generated noise that would need to be directed to ground and then there is always the fear of lightning. Tom

The only way to get the best sound is to attach balloons on
your gear and keep the system approximately 100 feet above the ground.
Don't listen music on a windy day, it may affect the sound
stage. For the better highs use more red balloons, for the bass red balloons.
Also, make sure that you have enough rope to bring the gear down.

Tbg, I'll start tweaking soon from six to five, five to four, etc. Also, I want to try relocating the CDP to a lower shelf, which SS suggests may improve performance.

Dgarretson, all that I can say is that I have never been successful with even four points. Were six better than five, etc.?

For the means of isolating components from very low frequencies of vibration, you know, the ones produced by ocean wave action on the shore, Earth crust motion, subways, traffic, wind, those vibrations with frequencies say between 0 Hz and 10 Hz there are precious few technologies to choose from. Let's take a look a the LIGO experiment for a second, the experiment to detect gravity waves,,gravity waves such as those left over from the Big Bang and that are notable by their extremely low amplitudes. Thus extreme measures are required to isolate the detection equipment from Earth borne vibration. So, what means of vibration isolation are required for such sensitivities, you ask? The real answer is complicated because there are now many stages of isolation in LIGO which is approaching 20 years old and just now getting ready to take data. But the primary means for the vertical stage is very high masses on special springs. Since very high isolation effectiveness is required even for say 5 Hz, as you can well imagine we're talking resonant frequencies approaching 0 Hz. Hel-looo!

Well said Robert.

I recently that Sound Anchor is teaming up with Stillpoints to create the ultimate speaker stand:

http://www.stillpoints.us/index.php/39-home-posts/125-coming-soon

IMO, SS already makes the ultimate speaker stand:

http://audiofederation.com/hifiing/2006/RMAF2006/report/500/part4/IMG_4185.jpg

Some of you may not know this, but Tom (Theaudiotweak) has patented a mechanically grounded endpin for the cello. The professional musicians who use it are giving him the thumbs up.

The SS technology is a flexible one. SRA or Stillpoints could not easily be used in that application or in walls like my sound room. JMHO.....:)

In the 90’s when wood furniture stands and shelves transcended into equipment racks designed to control vibration, the audio world began to form methods of understanding how additional materials will alter performance in sound reproduction and have become the gospel for treating vibration in audio. These learning curves, most of which were adopted from other scientific and practiced applications of vibration control were largely borrowed from other industries.

Every equipment racking company in audio has theories as to how their products perform. Not one of them including Star Sound has produced any type of third party testing. There is no standard methodology recognized for testing products for comparisons sake.

Every equipment rack at one point or another does some of the same things attempting to manage vibration. Some employ absorbents such as sand, lead, Sorbothane® or types of rubber and foams used as damping materials where some use various stones, acrylics, others use carbon polymers and woods that have various effects on performance but the vast majority of racking has ‘one’ material in common with each other and that is metals.

Star Sound products and designs employ metals only. A Sistrum single shelf is a speaker, amplifier, component platform. The rest of the industry uses multiple combinations of various other materials to achieve their product and performance but are left with a technical approach that cannot service all equipment profiles.

What some readers may be missing is steel and brass also damp energy as each metal and alloy has specific damping factors based on their chemical makeup (damping charts are easy to research). Steel and brass also provide diffusion and phase cancellation where energy is converted into heat so we are not much different than other product in the marketplace other than we employ a mechanical grounding device designed to vibrate in a sonic environment.

We are not focused on where vibration comes from or how much vibration is created or what types of vibration disrupt product operational efficiency that negatively affects components, speakers or listening environments sonic. Star Sound products become infused as part of the overall vibration formula – joined at the hip.

In answer to the questions listed below: Star Sound comments posted here are with regards to Live Vibe Technology™ is assumed that our technology is in place inside the equipment, below the equipment, adapted to musical instruments and/or building structural frameworks.

It is also assumed that all applications and statements are determined in a musical reproduction environment. Earthquakes, locomotives, 4 Hz frequencies, earth’s crust rotations, etc related to other sciences are beyond our studies and research criterion. Star Sound limits in house testing to audio/video equipment and the sound room relative to human hearing capability.

Question: “Hey, what happened to the vibration coming up from the floor? That's a much bigger problem than anything the component can dish out. And that what the rigid rack amplifies. Hel-looo!”

Answer: With our technology implied, energy formed from vibration coming from the air, flooring, walls, and ceilings, mechanical, electromechanical or acoustic means is not an issue. We approach managing vibration as a single concept versus categorically analyzing it coming from one location or one form or one direction at a time.

We experimented with springs many years ago and determined a soft float design establishes greater amplitudes of lateral motion causing changes in speed and decay. When applied in combination with steel shelving, additional materials were required to maximize the effort as the direct instrument chassis contact area was too linear. The formula became extremely complex and the sonic results varied due to various types of equipment’s chassis mass. Rather than build products specific to weight restraints or choosing various springs for each type of component, this highly functional concept was placed aside.

The Sistrum rod assemblies and Audio Points provided a much higher speed of energy flow with no weight restrictions.

Our reply to the latter portion of this question is how can one provide proof that a Sistrum Platform ‘amplifies’ vibration from the flooring or any other source for that matter? We understand where ‘rack chatter’ originates when using wood blocks and shelving as vibrating wood produces an audible range of frequencies hence the comparisons in the sound between MDF, maple and other exotics are discussed often on this forum but having a bit of trouble in hearing noise amplified by heavy dense steel.

Question: “The stand does have it's own resonant frequency, as absolutely everything does, so it's very likely, that it transfers that own residual (it cannot dissipate a 100% of it) resonant frequency back into the component, therefore adding that resonant frequency to the sound made by the component itself.”

Answer: Yes, every form of racking design no matter what materials and processes are employed will do this. In our opinion - based on physics, laws of motion, and gravity in combination with the phenomena known as Coulomb friction the geometry of the Sistrum design maintains the majority of resonance flow towards ground. Please review previous information with analogy on our response here, dated 7-18-15 (water flow and fire hydrant).

It is also the opinion of the company that the minute amount of energy ‘feeding back into the equipment’ will not affect the sonic merit of the equipment nor infuse a hardness in sonic or ‘metallic sound’ when placed atop a Platform. The resonant frequency of the Sistrum Platforms is well above and below human hearing while functioning in a listening environment. Naturally if you hold up a metal shelf and whack it with a hammer there is quite an audible frequency ring and that will vary depending on the material used to make up the hammerhead but that situation and self generated frequency does not relate to a listening room.

We would never argue that you did not experience total satisfaction from the Sistrum performance. I began my career with this company discussing systems with hundreds of listeners and audiophiles having attained tremendous amounts of knowledge over the years. I also learned through this experience there were other variables related to system synergy such as audio components, cables mix, power and distribution, mirrors, picture frames, bookcases, lamps, rugs, curtains, windows, speaker placements, rooms, etc., creating problems that were first realized in tandem with our products.

Star Sound averages two refunds per annum for dissatisfaction in performance. With sales well into the thousands of units, we remain highly motivated by public response and acceptance. We also fully and openly admit there are unknowns that exist within our understanding and that of our systems performance. In 1999 we were the first company providing a trial period with refunds for every product ever sold. To the best of our knowledge in 2015 Star Sound the first company paying for third party testing in order to evolve the science.

Over time we have improved greatly upon the technology and overall sonic performance as demonstrated with the newer Sistrum Apprentice and Rhythm Platforms compared to the fifteen year older original Platforms and would jump at the chance to possibly get our second generation products back into your system for an audition.

Thank you for a providing good questions and participating in this thread.

Robert Maicks
Star Sound Technologies, LLC

The K-01X presents a perfectly flat bottom surface, and the machined tolerances of the SS APs and coupling disks are obviously very tight in order to allow six points of contact without shims.

Dgarretson, I am in total agreement with what you say.

I just have to say that after trying to get four Audio Points in contact with the bottoms of my BMC Arcadia speaker and remembering that three points define a plane, I gave up on anything more than three.

How did you manage to get all six in contact? Four Ultra SSs or Fives, sound better than three, but one can raise or lower these individual units. Of course a screw other than a tight one is anathema for Star Sound.

Tbg, my experience accords with yours that Stillpoints can be sensitive to the surfaces on which they are placed-- notwithstanding that the stated feature of their "technology" is to dissipate vertical transmission horizontally though friction within the device. As case in point, there is more coherence from my Merlins VSMs with four Ultra 5s on a hardwood floor than on an oriental rug. Based on this experience they would seem both to couple and decouple. I don't doubt that either siting of the U5s is an improvement over the stock footers, but obviously as with all tweaks there is always tweaking involved...

I haven't tried a ESS rack, but I think of the standalone SP footers as tactical devices that can be used just about anywhere to some advantage, and shunted around a system with relative ease. Their leveling feature is nice in special situations like TT. The Star Sound stuff is more strategic and requires more space and housekeeping to plan and execute-- but IMO worth the effort. Now into my fourth day with the SS RP-5 rack. This has performed something close a miracle with the K-01X. I've initially mounted the CDP on six points, and will start to reposition those and withdraw a few over time.

I have made constrained layer amp stand platforms following a similar concept to what is shown in the SRA picture. With a relatively high mass, and edenSound Bearpaws screwed into the constrained layers (but not the frame), they were quite effective under my Class A Clayton amps.
Zoethecus z-slab platforms are also made with constrained layers of different materials although a bit different in design. They are better suited to source components and preamps, but also easy to make.
Don't get me started on what I find when I take apart cables...

I suspect the builder and designer of the SRA poducts would not have imagined someone actually cutting the expensive product in half, interesting findings to say the least.

07-30-15: Hdm

Some interesting reading on one of the SRA products here:

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=38482

Ouch. Well, it would be hard to cut the SS stands in half....

"Here are some examples. You decide:

1. SRA:

The primary damping material is a “very sensitive thermal reactive copolymer,” according to Tellekamp, who I suddenly imagined wearing a white lab coat. He didn’t scratch his chin and look sideways at me when he said it, but he could have. He went on, “This patented material has the ability to change darometer --- its hardness and softness --- very rapidly.”

I looked rapidly startled, and Kevin pounced. “Think of Jell-O as it moves from a liquid to a solid --- it’s the same idea.” He checked to see how I was taking it. Pretty well, actually. “The liquid state is only possible in an air-free environment. Air contains water, of course, which would act like a hardener and make our damping compounds appear --- and feel --- like foam.

I looked startled again, so Tellekamp went in for the kill: “Yup, we assemble our stands under a nitrogen blanket --- air free --- so all the stands are air free & airtight.”

Some interesting reading on one of the SRA products here:

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=38482

Nice examples Andrew. All three of those brands employ different approaches as you clearly point out. Each one certainly has their camp of strong/loyal advocates. At one time I came close to buying the SRA product(never heard it). It may have worked very well in my system(who knows?). I'm very happy with the Star Sound approach.

07-30-15: Maril555
Of course these companies have quite different designs. It is audibly evident.
That is what I was trying to convey in my original post.
Owners claim neutral sound of both designs, but in practice, they clearly "sound" different.

It gets really cloudy when you mix and match technologies....and this is where a lot of audiophules get lost in the forrest (with the only thing guiding them being a manufacturer's transcendent and vague mysticism). Just repeat the word "quantum" a few times like a mantra, and our eyes glaze over and out come the wallets.....:)

Here are some examples. You decide:

1. SRA:

The primary damping material is a “very sensitive thermal reactive copolymer,” according to Tellekamp, who I suddenly imagined wearing a white lab coat. He didn’t scratch his chin and look sideways at me when he said it, but he could have. He went on, “This patented material has the ability to change darometer --- its hardness and softness --- very rapidly.”

I looked rapidly startled, and Kevin pounced. “Think of Jell-O as it moves from a liquid to a solid --- it’s the same idea.” He checked to see how I was taking it. Pretty well, actually. “The liquid state is only possible in an air-free environment. Air contains water, of course, which would act like a hardener and make our damping compounds appear --- and feel --- like foam.

I looked startled again, so Tellekamp went in for the kill: “Yup, we assemble our stands under a nitrogen blanket --- air free --- so all the stands are air free & airtight.”

2. Stillpoints:

Stillpoints Technology
systems are about resonance
control and low mass, as mass means energy storage and that is anathema
to them.

and

The Ultra appears to have two parts: the main cylindrical structure and a loose-fitting “cap” on the end. It is actually composed of ten internal components that form an elaborate vibration-dissipation system. The internal structure includes tiny ceramic bearings that dissipate micro-vibrations. The Ultra is a two-way device, meaning that it dissipates vibration entering from either direction (from the floor or from the component resting on the Ultra). Moreover, there is no vertical path for vibration through the Ultra. This device is the highest implementation of Stillpoints’ technology, which is reflected in the price—$900 for a set of four. An aluminum version, identical in every way except for the metal, is $640 for a set of four. According to Stillpoints, stainless-steel more quickly dissipates vibrational energy.

3. SS:

ive-Vibe Technology™ is based on the science of resonance energy transfer via a high-speed calculated conductive pathway to earth's ground maintaining vibrations a state of constant motion and creating a more efficient result.

2. The technical term applied to the study of vibration in High End Audio is "Isolation" which is one of many methods of treating the ill effects of signal degradation caused from vibration.The category topic of Isolation fails to differentiate there are other or more favorable applications and terminologies dealing in vibration management.

Isolate - To prevent a circuit or device from interacting with another or with an outside stimulus.

If we isolate vibration in any instrument we restrict operational efficiency and functionality in performance.

Why invest in a costly component or loudspeaker if the intention is to smother its sonic capability?

It is our opinion that the Audio Community should change this miss represented category title and begin calling it Vibration Management. One can never totally isolate or control vibration but there are sciences that can 'Manage' it.

The information and white papers provided here is the backbone of our technology and success and yes we have confidence in a completely opposite approach to the long time beliefs, understandings and technical methodologies applied to vibration management in audio.

It's new...It's live...and yes it vibrates too. We would not have it any other way hence the name Live-Vibe Technology dictates our passion.

So, you decide which wild eyed mystic you want to follow....:)

Of course these companies have quite different designs. It is audibly evident.

That is what I was trying to convey in my original post.
Owners claim neutral sound of both designs, but in practice, they clearly "sound" different.

Dgarretson,

I have a very different experience with Stillpoints Ultra devices on different shelves. Initially, I had their ESS rack with acrylic shelves. While it sounded very good, I always thought that the acrylic ruined the ESS rack. Exemplar Audio came out with their XP-2 tube preamp that has Ultra SSs mounted so that they can be used directly into the "technology" bases mounted into the ESS rails. I first just put it on the ESS with the SSs on the screws holding the shelves on. Then I removed the acrylic shelf. I did not hear much difference. Later I got the Ultra Fives and thought that I would try them more toward the center of the component on the acrylic shelf. It was awful! I could not mount the Fives directly to the railes as the SSs were in the way and it was difficult to unmount them. Much later Stillpoints came out with Grids to replace the acrylic shelves. Wow what an improvement when I mounted the Fives on them under the XP-2!

To the degree that I understand the "tchnology," I don't understand this. Almost alll vertical motion is supposed to be converted into heat. How does the shelf affect the sound?

I have also found that Fives sound quite different on Mana stands and on the Synergistic Research Tranquility Base, then on the Grids. Recently I tried them on the Star Sound Tech. Rhythm rack. Of course these companies have quite different designs. It is audibly evident!

The mass on spring device is of course a low pass filter that increases effectiveness of isoaltion as frequency of vibration increases. So the idea that turntable vibrations (which are relatively high in frequency) will be transmitted from the top plate of the spring platform is probably not true. The mass on spring device is very effective by the time the frequency is say 20 Hz. This is why on my device (Geoffkait's spring platform) I incorporated dampers on the top plate to dissipate excess energy that could arise from either energy passing upwards to the top plate or from the component mounted on the top plate. Way back when I employed the Tekna Sonic dampers that work very well in this application, these days I make a different but similar device, a constrained layer damper for the top plate of iso stands, large transformers, the top of CD transports, etc.

I have a rough clone of Geofkait's Machina Dynamica soft spring platform under my L07D TT that I think addresses the dual problem of earth-borne and TT-propagated vibrations. Earth-borne vibrations are converted into very low frequency spring oscillations by means of soft springs under the heavy mass loading of a large sandbox, on which the unsuspended TT plinth rests. TT-propagated vibrations are handled by SP Ultra 5s underneath the Kenwood's unsuspended brass footers and motor bearing. One reported advantage of the Stillpoints is that their function doesn't depend much on the platform or rack on which they are sited. This marriage of disparate coupling and decoupling strategies seems to work.

While this or a similar approach works well for individual components, it's a stretch to apply it to a full rack of components. I'm three days into breaking in a Star Sound five-shelf Rhythm rack with an Esoteric digital stack and a two-chassis Atma tube preamp. What is this audio heresy, the notion of a rack breaking in?! Yes, the heavy mass-loaded Rhythm rack audibly forms itself over several days, perhaps similar to the strengthening of piston rods through the controlled stress applied during break-in of a racing engine. Star Sound would say that this forming process is the heavy loaded brass and steel structure organizing its pathways for vibration to ground.

I'm going to give it a few more days before full judgment. Initial impressions are of coherence, enhanced timbral nuance, neutral frequency balance, and(as contrasted with current Stillpoints Ultra SS models that formerly supported these components on a DIY cross-braced oak rack) a broadening of the LF skirt without sacrificing LF discipline and articulation. Above all, a satisfying release of dynamic energy throughout the room and sense of increased speed and transient attack. Although on the first day and early in the second day of forming the rack("forming" is perhaps a better term than "break-in") I heard a bit of what Maril referred to as over-emphasis of treble and upper midrange and leading-edges, this issue has resolved with time.

And btw for the Wolfman, sarcasm and humor have nothing in common. Look it up.

The cool thing about Earth crust motion is that the whole building is moved and flexed. Even the concrete slab. The Earth crust motion is similar to shaking out a carpet, that wave type action. Yeah, Baby!

07-29-15: Geoffkait
Hey, what happened to the vibration coming up from the floor? That's a much bigger problem than anything the component can dish out. And that what the rigid rack amplifies. Hel-looo!

Fair presupposition. The big boy SS racks also have tubes filled with a reactive mass (steel sand essentially) so there is a component of absorption and is not just a tuning fork.

My listening room is in the basement so cork on concrete not much motion in that ocean?

Hel-loo is right. The SS boys need to put the hookas down and answer some questions.

The directional nature is dictated (theoretically) by point and stand architecture.

Stillpoints appear to work via an amalgam of mechanisms and materials, including a single steel thread, aluminum, delrin, etc. Whether that amounts to more efficient energy transfer is another matter. Believe it or not, some people still like the old version better.

I'd be very surprised, if the process was uni-directional. Conceivably, the amount of vibration draining from the component is larger, than going back.
Obviously, significant portion of it gets dissipated somehow, but still... .
Reportedly, the original Stillpoints are quite a bit less effective, than Ultra SS, and especially Ultra 5s, so the audible results should be respectively different.
I do agree, that in some applications Ultra SS cam change the tonality, so universal results are not a guarantee (like anything else in audio).
I did introduce various Sistrum products gradually, but cannot claim, that I remember the sequence, nature and amount of changes by now. It was awhile ago.

Hey, what happened to the vibration coming up from the floor? That's a much bigger problem than anything the component can dish out. And that what the rigid rack amplifies. Hel-looo!

07-29-15: Maril555
If I do understand and remember the principle of the SS design correctly (as explained by Robert himself), that's how it works.
The stand rigidly couples to the component it's supporting, and transfer it's vibration into itself, sothe stand vibrates and then dissipates that energy.
Since the stand vibrates itself, and it surely does- Robert told me and I experienced that myself, you can actually feel it's vibrating as the speaker plays loud, bass- heavy passages. The stand does have it's own resonant frequency, as absolutely everything does, so it's very likely, thta it transfers that own residual (it cannot dissipate a 100% of it) resonant frequency back into the component, therefore adding that reonant frequency to the sound made by the component itself.
What I feel is, that a metal stand resonant frequency is audible, as the leading edge and upper midrange emphasis.
I belive, devices such as Stillpoints Ultra and SRA are more effective in dissipating larger portion of the equipment- generated vibrations into heat, or maybe their own resonant frequency is less intrusive and more sympathetic", than the Sistrum one.
Someone smart said something to the effect, that "all support systems sound, as they look-"metal sounds "metallic" and wood "soft", or something like that. I find that statement to be correct

The stands vibrate like tuning forks under speakers, subs and in walls (based on my experience). The question is whether that vibration is bi-direction or uni-direction and travels to "ground" as SS claims. I will let them chime in on that. Also, the resonant frequency of steel and brass of theoretically subsonic (Robert's claim).

As for Stillpoints vs SS, I did a direct comparison between the original Stillpoints and SS on my previous speakers. The SS apprentice stands had more speed, better focus, and more tonal correctness. The Stillpoints had an excellent sense of space and ambient detail but had a metallic hue in the midrange.....to my ears.

Robert, Tom....time to chime in.

07-29-15: Maril555
If I remember correctly, I had SP-101s under the speakers and power amps, and SP-3s under preamp, CDP
Maril555 (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

Did you do a step-wise approach going component by component (speakers first) to determine when things started going awry?

If I do understand and remember the principle of the SS design correctly (as explained by Robert himself), that's how it works.
The stand rigidly couples to the component it's supporting, and transfer it's vibration into itself, sothe stand vibrates and then dissipates that energy.
Since the stand vibrates itself, and it surely does- Robert told me and I experienced that myself, you can actually feel it's vibrating as the speaker plays loud, bass- heavy passages. The stand does have it's own resonant frequency, as absolutely everything does, so it's very likely, thta it transfers that own residual (it cannot dissipate a 100% of it) resonant frequency back into the component, therefore adding that reonant frequency to the sound made by the component itself.
What I feel is, that a metal stand resonant frequency is audible, as the leading edge and upper midrange emphasis.
I belive, devices such as Stillpoints Ultra and SRA are more effective in dissipating larger portion of the equipment- generated vibrations into heat, or maybe their own resonant frequency is less intrusive and more sympathetic", than the Sistrum one.
Someone smart said something to the effect, that "all support systems sound, as they look-"metal sounds "metallic" and wood "soft", or something like that. I find that statement to be correct

If I remember correctly, I had SP-101s under the speakers and power amps, and SP-3s under preamp, CDP

Maril, what stands did you use and when? SP4s, SP101s? SS products are ideally used on their own without any intervening construct. The products have evolved like everything else.

As for its "sonic signature," its a chicken and egg scenario to some degree. Is it the rack or the equipment? I find my 101s fairly "neutral." What changes mostly is speed, focus or coherency, and ambient data.

Again, if your system is bright or tipped up in character, then SS might not be the answer. For example, some speaker manufacturers rely on wood cabinet resonance for bass and tonality control, and a product that drains that vibration can cause the speaker to sound lean. That being said, I put a vintage pair of Pioneers I bought on Craigslist for $75 as a surrogate while I waited for my speakers to be completed. I put them on a set of "Apprentice stands" which are current generation and smoke the SP4s which I assume u used. I had a speaker designer over who said they sounded better than a lot of 10K speakers he has heard over the years. I have a SOTA system/room where everything change is glaring. Its not a soft, marshmallow sound from the 70s.....:)

Thats fair

Maril555,
I would have a hard time saying that any audio product is devoid of some level of sonic signature. I do understand and appreciate your experience and impressions. All I can say is is that in regards to my system and individual components the Starsound products have been a significant plus across the board, tonality has been improved in my opinion not hindered. The natural tonal richness and harmonic overtones were revealed in their complexity and beauty. I have little tolerance for added brightness, I do seek improved openness and transparency and this is what I have found with these products. Sometimes equally experienced listeners will simply have different
outcomes and sonic impressions in their respective systems. If I heard the same brightness that you described, I would have quickly gotten rid of these products.
Regards,
Charles,

Agear, Charles,
My rack is DIY with maple shelves, something like a Mapleshade.
I do use SRA Ohio stands under the Lamm amps and Tron Syren, that sits on the rack.
I'm getting SRA rack though.
As I mentioned previously, I've had my whole system on various SS stands at some point, so I have pretty good idea about the product.
So, let me ask you guys- do you really feel, that Sistrum stands are completely neutral and don't emphasize leading edge and don't accentuate some parts of the upper midrange/lower treble spectrum?
It clearly did so in my system.
It's not completely objectionable, and is noticable more on some recordings, and less on the others.
But it is there! And since I'm very sensitive to the issue, I've moved on to more 'benign" solutions.
Again, I can see somebody not to be affected that much, or to be willing to accept the compromise for whatever reason. And that is the whole different story.
What I'm having a problem with, is the fact, that people imply SS is devoid of any sonic signature.

Mitch2, if I find a product valuable for the realism of my system, I usually seek some explanation. With regards to vibrations one reads a number of explanations. One entails what is a variation of springs under the devise whether they are actual springs or like poll magnets. Then another focus is on grounding the component to something much heavier. Points are part of this as the foot pounds per square inch increases with a point. I don't think there is much scientifically to say that these are really different other than having different resonant frequencies. But every device under ones component affects its sound.

For years I found very modest benefits with different devices, but with the Stillpoints Ultras and the Star Sound Rhythms there are big differences. I have my preferencs, but clearly there are stark differences. Perhaps there is good science underlying these designs and perhaps they are beneficial to only one aspect of the sound. I don't think science can lead us to one technique that clearly satisfies everyone's tastes in what they hear.

Getting back to the OP's question, I would answer, "by staying out of the way."

IMO, the purposes of a rack are to provide a firm platform protecting equipment from external vibrations (I believe pointy footers under the rack help with this), to allow organization of components that facilitates short and unobstructed cable runs, to be sonically neutral with no ringing, self-noise or effect on system tonality and, in the best examples, to allow good ventilation around, above and beneath the components.

The Sound Anchors solid steel, sand-filled, rack and stands I use do an excellent job at all of the above. I use a Sound Anchors rack, amplifier stand, and custom made cradle bases for my speakers. All of these are anchored to a concrete floor using edenSound Bear Paws, which are massive, brass points. Several features of the Sound Anchors racks and stands include their heavy mass, the damping effect of the sand filling, adjustable bar supports which can be positioned directly beneath the footers/contact points of all sizes of components, ability to use after-market footers under components (e.g., Herbies, Stillpoints, etc.), the open air flow above, around and beneath components and the ability to customize widths, heights, and component opening sizes. They are made in the USA and are great people to do business with.

From what I see of the Star Sound platforms, they also seem to accomplish the above stated goals. I cannot comment on their effect (or not) on tonality. Being modular, they seem to be infinitely adjustable. I can see why people like them. I suspect the sonic differences between systems supported on a suspended wood floor and those supported on a concrete slab-on-grade are much greater than the sonic differences between Star Sound or Sound Anchors racks.

My only issue, alluded to in my original post, is the prevalent and excessive use of "scientific" explanations in this industry that create an illusion that only a certain product can provide the conditions necessary for great sound. The cable industry is the worst at promoting this (e.g., your cables will not sound good without using OCC wire, or silver wire, or dielectric-biasing, or a network box, or, or, or...). Audiophiles are such a tweaky, detailed group we seem to eat that stuff up and sometimes lose the forest for the trees. Maybe that is why I find Wolf's posts hilarious, because he doesn't take this stuff too seriously and finds humor in being irreverent to the BS attached to the industry.

Well said Charles.

Maril, what stands did you use and did they sit in your rack or the ground?

Maril555,
I don't doubt your listening impressions via Star Sound products, you heard what you heard in your system. I'm unaware of any product regardless of review/reputation that has achieved 100% consensus/agreement, never happens. Too many system and listener variables to contend with.

There was a thread on this site in the past where Still Points and Star Sound were compared. Although the majority who tried both preferred SS, some preferred SP, THIS MAKES SENSE TO ME. I haven't experienced the tonal problems you encountered, different ears,room,componrnts etc.The best one can do is try a product for themselves and listen to it in their system. Outcomes will vary as expected.
Charles,

07-28-15: Maril555
I didn't want to participate in this thread, but anyhow...
I used to have numerous Sistrum platforms in my system.
Under the speakers, amps, preamp., etc.
After reading glowing accounts of Sistrum owners here, I'm somewhat surprised nobody noticed how much they affect tonality of the system.
I can report from my own experience, and with absolute certainty, that Sistrum platforms do change an overall tonality of the component, they are under. Make it sounds brighter, probably emphasizing upper midrange, lower treble.
They are NOT neutral by any stretch of imagination.
This is not to say, they don't make positive contribution, and the change of tonality may be complimentary in some systems context.
But come on!!! This is a huge qualifier, all potential owners should be aware of.
Going back and reading some past Sistrum reviews, I have found at least one, when the owner compared it to other support systems, and came out with the same conclusion.
It's so obvious, it's really hard not to notice.
Since then I have tried many others (Herbies, Mapleshade, Symposium, Stillpoints, HRS, SRA), and still have some in the various parts of my present system
In the end, my personal impression is as follows:
All rigid designs, metal in particular, introduce their own resonant frequency, as part of "their own" sonic character, for the most part, making a sound of the component leaner and brighter.
Rigid wood structures (maple stands, platforms, etc) have a tendency to "dull and color" the sound.
The best designs by far, are the ones implementing sofisticated vibration dissipation technologies. There are different approaches to that.
Some notable examples are Stillpoints Ultra 5 and Ultra SS,
SRA, HRS (that I tried personally).The others like Critical Mass, Nordost, etc., i have no experience with.
They tend to be very effective in dissipating harmful vibrations, "cleaning up" the sound in the process, and at the same time imposing very small, if any sonic footprint of their own.
In my limited experience, SRA is probably the least "intrusive" one. Makes all the positive changes, w/o any detrimental side-effects, that I can notice.
Stillpoints are exceptionally good, but somewhat component and system dependent.

I have never had SS make stuff brighter. I have read similar comments about Stillpoints (which I have owned as well). Much of the effects of grounding via steel and bass is subsonic (according to Robert at SS). What it can do in some circumstances is unmask a component's personality. If tone control is the goal, wood or rubber can be good as are softer sounding cabling. I have heard your speakers sound great and bad depending on the setup (tubes are the way IMO). I know Robert worked on some SS mods for them in the past ironically....:)

I believe SS still has a demo policy, so opinions are honestly irrelevant (as they should be).

07-28-15: Wolf_garcia
Agear…if you didn't have your cranium so far up your wazoo you could respond to the gist of my comments rationally instead of lamely picking at me personally, although attempts at bullying are to be expected among the insecure. I have plenty of non "Kansas" older friends (60s and older) who are absolutely at the top of their games in sound engineering despite years of this stuff, working musicians included…mastering pros like Bob Ludwig (Mainer!) and Grammy winners like my former CT neighbor Elliot Shiner are hardly "probably" disabled, although the squealing of "whining strangers" might be too high pitched for them to enjoy, even if it's squeals of joy over the astonishing musical panacea of pointy bits . If I have tin ears like people in Kansas (!), it certainly hasn't stopped me from an ongoing successful musician and sound technician career, as well as my ability to really enjoy my hifi rig. There is an important difference between mudslinging and questioning the efficacy of silly statements about pointy things, and if my humor or sarcasm is missed by anyone…well…tough shit.

Call Robert and set up that demo.....

Agear…if you didn't have your cranium so far up your wazoo you could respond to the gist of my comments rationally instead of lamely picking at me personally, although attempts at bullying are to be expected among the insecure. I have plenty of non "Kansas" older friends (60s and older) who are absolutely at the top of their games in sound engineering despite years of this stuff, working musicians included…mastering pros like Bob Ludwig (Mainer!) and Grammy winners like my former CT neighbor Elliot Shiner are hardly "probably" disabled, although the squealing of "whining strangers" might be too high pitched for them to enjoy, even if it's squeals of joy over the astonishing musical panacea of pointy bits . If I have tin ears like people in Kansas (!), it certainly hasn't stopped me from an ongoing successful musician and sound technician career, as well as my ability to really enjoy my hifi rig. There is an important difference between mudslinging and questioning the efficacy of silly statements about pointy things, and if my humor or sarcasm is missed by anyone…well…tough shit.

I didn't want to participate in this thread, but anyhow...
I used to have numerous Sistrum platforms in my system.
Under the speakers, amps, preamp., etc.
After reading glowing accounts of Sistrum owners here, I'm somewhat surprised nobody noticed how much they affect tonality of the system.
I can report from my own experience, and with absolute certainty, that Sistrum platforms do change an overall tonality of the component, they are under. Make it sounds brighter, probably emphasizing upper midrange, lower treble.
They are NOT neutral by any stretch of imagination.
This is not to say, they don't make positive contribution, and the change of tonality may be complimentary in some systems context.
But come on!!! This is a huge qualifier, all potential owners should be aware of.
Going back and reading some past Sistrum reviews, I have found at least one, when the owner compared it to other support systems, and came out with the same conclusion.
It's so obvious, it's really hard not to notice.
Since then I have tried many others (Herbies, Mapleshade, Symposium, Stillpoints, HRS, SRA), and still have some in the various parts of my present system
In the end, my personal impression is as follows:
All rigid designs, metal in particular, introduce their own resonant frequency, as part of "their own" sonic character, for the most part, making a sound of the component leaner and brighter.
Rigid wood structures (maple stands, platforms, etc) have a tendency to "dull and color" the sound.
The best designs by far, are the ones implementing sofisticated vibration dissipation technologies. There are different approaches to that.
Some notable examples are Stillpoints Ultra 5 and Ultra SS,
SRA, HRS (that I tried personally).The others like Critical Mass, Nordost, etc., i have no experience with.
They tend to be very effective in dissipating harmful vibrations, "cleaning up" the sound in the process, and at the same time imposing very small, if any sonic footprint of their own.
In my limited experience, SRA is probably the least "intrusive" one. Makes all the positive changes, w/o any detrimental side-effects, that I can notice.
Stillpoints are exceptionally good, but somewhat component and system dependent.