Home Theater Done Right: Millercarbon's System

That’s not my system, it’s some guy’s in Sweden about twenty years ago. But thanks for thinking of me anyway. 😬 I’ll show you mine if you show me yours. 

Right. Some guy in Sweden bought your preposterous nonsense about a Firestone air spring made for trucks being the ideal 6 axis blah blah yada yada word salad and then paid for shipping exercise weights across the Atlantic. Good one. With every Numnuts SubHertz platform you get an autographed copy suitable for framing of your fake on-line university diploma too no doubt.

My system pics are up. Where are yours? From what you say it should be easy- just hold your iPhone up to a mirror and click. Or is it Android?

Dang, front row seats for once.
Pass the popcorn!

I can certainly understand why your butt is so sore. Ouch! Have you tried sitting on ice packs? 🤗

Millercarbon ...

You are exactly correct in your statement that a center channel is not necessary. In fact, we found that a center channel actually screws up the imaging.

I learned this at an ultra-high-end store I worked at for a few years. We had a dedicated A/V room with the best projector available at the time. The electronics were all manufactured by Goldmund as were the speakers. Totally a mega-buck audio/video system. We never used a center channel, nor would we sell one. We sold the customer on the idea of saving some money and enjoying better sound by eliminating the center channel. The system was glorious.

Frank

Right. There are in fact some very good technical reasons why this is so. 
The reasoning behind the center channel is its for dialog which is supposed to be coming from the screen which is assumed to be centered between the speakers. But, as anyone who has ever watched a movie would know, the characters aren't always dead center in the middle of the frame. Dialog can be coming from anywhere and in fact may not even be on the screen at all. 

With stereo this is no problem at all. Everyone with a properly set up stereo knows perfectly well there is no problem whatsoever with sounds coming from anywhere in 3D space, which sometimes if the system is really good seems to extend even well off to the sides beyond the speakers. This happens naturally without any need for special processing effects.

With multichannel HT on the other hand and especially with a center channel this cannot happen without putting a processor in the signal path. The processor has to pan and scan and shift the sound around trying to emulate what is happening on screen. Even if it works, its still an extra component in the signal path. Putting unnecessary circuits in the signal path is never a good idea.

@millercarbon  I want to comment on the use of HFTs.  I installed 32 on walls and speakers.  I found the basic set up to Level 5 on walls excellent.  However, on my speakers, no matter which HFT was placed near my dome tweeter and ribbon supertweeter, the sound became too bright and/or hard.  So, I eliminated that one.  The other extremely important HFT were the HFT 2.0s on the sides of the speakers.  They had to be adjusted to within 1/8" up or down to balance bass/fullness and the upper frequencies.  That was a trial and error which took a while in my new room as it did in my prior room.  Overall, the use of the HFTs eliminated my need for a full out quadradic diffusion system set up on the front and rear walls, quoted at $25,000+ by my audio room designer's company.  I already have built-in wall/floor/ceiling bass control and ample side wall and suspended ceiling absorption panels.  My friends also prefer the use of SR HFTs for their more difficult to adjust rooms.

Yeah. As if its not amazing enough how well this stuff works, its maybe even more amazing how such tiny movements tweak the sound so noticeably. I never was able to get anything even close to too bright or hard with any of them, but was able to tweak the amount of sizzle on cymbals just by moving the ones on the front wall an inch or so at a time. My system isn't anywhere near hard or bright but a lot are and I can see how that could happen.
One that blew me away the most is on the back of the speaker by the port. Why these things work at all is a puzzler. Why moving them even a small amount is even more puzzling. How one on the back of the speaker pointed away and into a corner not only matters but makes a huge difference moving it just an inch or so is a mystery indeed.  

Sounds like you have a few more than me. Have you tried ECT? Very similar looking only optimized to go on electronics. They are even harder to understand as they have a very similar effect on sound quality even though they go on (or even inside!) components.

Quadratic diffusion, eh? To wield language and numbers like that, I'm gonna guess... architect? Lol!

Well, Acoustic Fields and Vicoustic sell superior quality and higher cost quadradic diffusion as well as other acoustic treatments. The HFT on the back of my Legacy Focus has to be placed between the two upper ports and the lower subwoofer driver. It is less critical, about an inch up or down to adjust to the room. The HFTs on the side walls, rear wall and corner front walls are also less critical in my room.

I was thinking about trying SR GCTs and UEF Cable Risers next. I found the SR Blackbox sucked the life out of recordings by cutting off frequencies above 8Khz. The UEF Cable Riser demo may indicate a similar effect using a type of ECT on each riser, or they may just focus the sound better. The Atmosphere XL4 is more of a toy and the default is mostly not better than no Atmosphere XL4 at all. 

I use the former Perfect Path Omega E- and E+ Mats, E+Cards and Stop-Its to great effect (waiting to add a mini-gate). They do electrically what the Black Box is supposed to do mechanically/acoustically, diminish distortion.

Upgrading my A/C cables to GroverHuffman Pharoahs made the biggest difference to my DAC, Transport, Turntable motor and controller. I already had the Pharoahs on my Bryston BIT-20 isolation transformer, amps and pre-amp/phono since I moved into my custom listening room.

@millercarbon - great system and great thread! Totally agree that solid value components and tweaks are the way to go. I’ve owned MANY components over the years including a six figure Shindo based system. After much listening and experimenting, I now use SR HFTs, ECTs, Atmosphere, Acoustic Panels, Fuses, Tranquility Bases, Black Box, etc. I started using PPT products as well. I’m finally to the point where I realize the actual components do make a difference but not as much as the room acoustics or how the signal and power are tweaked. Keep up the good work (battle) and congrats!

Thanks. Tweaks are just like components, they are not created equal. Some are much more effective and high value than others. The trick is to cover all the bases bringing everything up to around the same level. Everyone has their favorite. Its the speakers. Its the amp. Its the source. Its the room. Its.... whatever. 

In reality its.... all of it. Together. Like you have found. Like everyone finds when they bother to try. Every little thing, and no one really any more important than any other, because it all adds together. It really is as simple- and as hard- as that.

WOW!
&
Nice...

If you like the looks, you should hear the sound. 
Thanks!

Mike (goes by oregon here) came by and heard the system last week. Here quoted in its entirety (and also on the System page) is his review:

"From a recent visit"- that was me!

I happened to be in the Seattle area, so I made contact with Chuck to see if he’d be available for a listening session. I belong to a group of audiophiles (better known as Audiofoos by our friends and spouses) and I have the pleasure of listening to some very high end systems. Folks who have dedicated serious time and money to get the best music/sound into their lives.

Walking into Chuck’s dedicated listening room, I immediately sensed that it was special. ( Kid in the candy store feeling). Our voices had no echo as we discussed equipment and tweaks. His enthusiasm was calm and controlled. I could see that his objective was to allow me to relax and to listen for myself.

After we agreed to a few selected LPs, Chuck graciously allowed me to sit in the sweet spot. We listened to a dozen LPs. Never was I distracted from the sound by comments or discussion. I was laser focused, my mind and ears totally engrossed in the music.

Excellent tonal balance and wide, pinpoint soundstage! Bass was tight and articulate and seemed to be coming from everywhere, but well integrated with the music, band, performance. Never boomy or out of control. Crystal clear highs and vocal midrange brought the band into the room, or, when my eyes were closed, I was transported to the venue.

In my opinion, Chuck has achieved audio nirvana- that thing about being drawn into the music and hearing more and more detail, hearing the inflection of the voice whether it’s pain, joy, or spite (Cry Me a River). Horns were smooth, never harsh. The sound was wide and big, speakers disappeared.

Room is surrounded by 4 small subwoofers and one in front. Lots of tweaks that is common among the most dedicated audiophiles I’ve known (personally, I’m kind of lazy and I don’t have the patience). But, it is truly impressive how everything works and one realizes the it is the sum that makes this system sound fantastic.

Chuck knows exactly what works. Look closely at his system notes for details. Each time he played an LP, he carefully attended to each record and a process of order. Cleaning the stylus, demagnetizing... Of course, I am not an expert, but I am a music lover. I loved what I heard.

If you are ever in the Seattle area, invite yourself to Chuck’s place. He might be available and you can hear for yourself the results of one crazy, seriously dedicated audiophile. Thanks Chuck. I hope to hear the music again.

Mike


millercarbon- You are welcome any time. Hopefully next time warmed up, and in the evening, when it will be even better.
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367

If I visit Seattle again you're getting a call for a visit...

The speaker cable elevators, the ones with the black tops, are what we called F & J Neck Insulators..
Insulate the conductors @ voltage from 7.62kv-23kv... that's phase to phase voltage.
They're rated by size of the insulator and the number of skirts that are underneath, where they screw into the PTP's.
Spent many a years at the tops of 40'-100' foot poles tying in conductors....
Happy I'm now retired  :)

Carry on, a top-notch system to you... hoping to hear one day.

Skip

Thanks, Skip, for the info. Researching these things turned up catalogs and spec sheets and its just like you said they are rated in kV, thousands of volts. Which stands to reason, being as they are trying to insulate high voltage lines, and in all kinds of weather. 

Learned enough to know the curves are there because charges don't like to migrate around corners and curves. There are some that look the same from the top but have extra skirts underneath, and they all have higher kV ratings. Stands to reason.

If you come you will be welcome any time and you will be amazed- and the most amazing thing of all is when you realize its not the stuff you can see that makes it so good, but the things you can't.