Mmakshak, Thanks for appreciating my "strings" for classical music.
I have indeed lifted power cables. It is referred to as "power lifting". It is best to hold each PC firmly in both hands, and always squat and lift with the legs, not the back. Power lifting can be dangerous, and should never be done with the PC plugged in as it weighs more than when unplugged. Once lifted, you can shake the PC gently to remove and residual EMFs, and you should also remove and kinks to ease the transition of electrons along the wire. The PC can then be gently lowered back into its environment for operation. One last tip... it is not well known, but all PC manufactures put the writing on the cable to indicate which direction is up. Try it both ways if you don't believe. |
Mmakshak, Thanks for appreciating my "strings" for classical music. (See 12/04 and 11/16 above)
I have indeed lifted power cables. It is referred to as "power lifting". It is best to hold each PC firmly in both hands, and always squat and lift with the legs, not the back. Power lifting can be dangerous, and should never be done with the PC plugged in as it weighs more than when unplugged. Once lifted, you can shake the PC gently to remove and residual EMFs, and you should also remove and kinks to ease the transition of electrons along the wire. The PC can then be gently lowered back into its environment for operation. One last tip... it is not well known, but all PC manufactures put the writing on the cable to indicate which direction is up. Try it both ways if you don't believe. |
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Mmakshak, perhaps you now understand why NOS is so dear. |
Unsound, where would I get the virgins, as I live in California? |
The best support for cables is across the bosom of 16 year old virgins. Don't skimp out here. Use as many as you can to keep them as close as possible to prevent sag. As mentioned above, avoid plastic fillers such as silicone. I doubt you could find a better way to keep the music more arousing. |
I did not know how the Dielectric Bias System may potentially shield the cable making it immune, just curious as my dad has the Mont Bloc cables coming Tuesday. |
Chadnliz, why would that be so? I have never heard any cables that are immune to any contact whatsoever with surfaces other than ceramic. |
Are Audioquest DBS speaker cables immune to negative interactions with carpet contact? |
I wholeheartedly agree with clipsal. Just bend small pieces of cardboard into v-shapes. Notch them if you want to for greater cable holding stability, set them on the rug or floor, with v-shape pointing toward the floor, and place the speaker cables on the tops of the inverted vees or in their notches. The difference in sound quality can be heard easily. I tried the same with interconnects, but detected no differences in sound quality; however, system experiences may vary. In any event, costs nothing. |
I placed cardboard under all cables raising all cables in minimum of about 2 inches. That and seperating all cables including power had a dramatic difference on top end extension and seperation of instruments. |
I lost my thread. To keep it short, listen to Zargon's last post. In fact, I'de like to ask Zargon if he has had any experience in lifting power cables? |
I recently noticed that my cables were laying side by side with my cable TV cable running on the floor behind my entertainment system. To life the speaker cables off the floor I used plastic cable ties which I stapled to the back of my cabinet. They are suspended in midair by just one tie in the middle of each cable.
Made a big difference in the quality of the cable TV signal - reduced noice and artifacting. Not much difference in sound system!! |
Shunyata's reference systems cable placemnt can be seen at the bottom of this page Interview with Mr. GabrielOne picture is worth a thousand posts Best regards Groovey Records Listening to The Who Live at Leeds Decca Track Records American Vinyl Maximum R&B |
Just a couple of more observations about the fishing line to cable interface I described above (11/16).
All other approaches recommended so far have some dense material between the cable and floor, and this can restrict the formulation of the lower portion of the sound image between the speakers. The line to the ceiling gives the maximum clear space for the image to form.
Even more important, the fishing lines work especially well for classical music since the cables are suspended on strings. |
Mmakshak, Elusive Disc and others have utilities insulators for sale. They look like what you see on most telephone and electric poles. All I can say is that I have some of what RightWay Audio used to sell and they sound better than those I found outside my local utility in the discard pile.
I used to have access to a gas high fire kiln and have found pots that I made then to be good under cables, but my wife objects to their use on the floor.
Groovey, I have wood plank floors and have no radient heat. I find it imperative to raise the cables. I don't know about the ceramic hooks. All I can suggest is to try them. The cables would still be very close to the wall surface, however. |
I have all wood planked floors with Pine slat walls, it is a wood framed house very rustic.
The speaker wires are generic west penn copper electric wire awg 14 gage pair teflon coated about 10 ' each channel.
Is it as critical to get it up off the floor when its a wood plank floor with forced water radient heat tubes underneath. I also have metal base board heating foils about 6 inches up the wall. If I run it under the couch there are the springs .
What about ceramic wall hooks like you would use in the Bathroom 8" high above the base board heaters but hanging with epoxy from the wall ? Or should I leave them well spread on the floor away from the base board heaters and under the couch. My system is pictured in budget under the title Modest System.
Thanks all you tweakers
best regards
Groovey
Listening to Stevie Wonder - Fulfillingness' First Finale
Motown 2-47075 Spanish Pressing |
We do agree that lifting cables off the floor(especially carpets) make a(good) difference. I can't lift my cables the 8-inch recommendation of Mapleshade(I'de also note that Mapleshade recommends power cable lifting, also.) I also appreciate the two manufacturers responses here. Tgb, can you purchase what you suggest, without doing anything to it(for us nimrods). |
If you have a gas high temperature kiln, shape or mold the shape you need and apply a salt glaze and fire. If not forget about anything other than high fire ceramics.
Wood, glass, plastic, and even paper in my experience do not do the job. Even unglazed ceramics like bricks are no good.
I have found that discarded ceramic electrical insulators such as you might find outside your utility company can be very good, although they might not have WAF. |
I can understand lifting a cable from a concrete slab (which is what I have). After all, there is steel reinforcement underneath. A solid chunk of steel has exponentially more effect on the impedance properties of a cable that "artificial fibers". I'm not even going to comment about the artificial fibers vs natural fibers debate. Good grief. I made this recommendation because these lifters look a lot more "professional" with expensive cables than wooden teepes or styro cups. Just a suggestion, nothing more. |
Steve (and everyone else) please re-read slipknot1's 11-16 post above. He says plastic is a no-no and I agree with him on this point.
L |
Use plastic rebar chairs! All colors and sizes available. These are the devices that hold up the steel reinforcement "rebar" on concrete slabs. Go to any development in progress and ask a foreman for a few. Tell him you are pouring a small slab to avoid any funny looks. You might also find them in hardware stores, but in large quantities. Do a search for "concrete chairs". Here is one manufacturer.
http://www.paragonproducts-ia.com/Rebar_Supports.html
Steve |
Thanks for your input Robert and I`d like to wish all a`gon members and their families a safe and happy Thanksgiving. |
Use an old broom / mop wood handle and cut proper length pieces for teepee construction. Chances are up to this point you can set them up without leaving home or buying anything!!!!!!!!
You can cut slots in the outside part of the teepee and instead of using a rubber band for cable suspension (they age and sag, if you want to limit floor vibration ) get proper sized "O" rings and set them between each post.
If you want to finish it properly get left over paint from your walls or get a matching color for furniture / carpet to help WAF.
If you still want to improve the looks you can saw the bottom of poles to flat seat on the surface.
It all depends on how much detail and finished look you want.
You can even "spike 'em" if you like.
Plenty of options. Happy tweaking and listening!!!
Luis |
Well, we sell these but look - with a bit of time on your part, it wouldn't be too hard to make these yourself. These are visually appealing and, lifting the cables off the floor makes a meaningful improvement to the playback. Link HEREHope this helps. Kind Regards, Robert RSAD |
Interesting challenge Herman. I`ll do it. I`ll report back in a week or so. |
Think about it.
No matter what you choose, since there will be large gaps between the spacers, the vast majority of space between the cable and the floor will be air. Even if getting the cable off the floor does make a difference, what you use to do it can't be significant. Pick something that is pleasing to the eye since the ear won't be able to tell the difference.
I challenge you to try it with different materials and report back what you find. |
So porcelain insulators still remain the best choice. |
For what its worth, paper and styrofoam are both dielectrics.
The definition of dielectric is a non-conducting material. Styrofoam doesn't conduct electricity any more than paper but the dielectric constant is different. However, relatively speaking they are very close.
Since in either case (styrofoam or paper cups) the overwhelming majority of material between the cable and the floor will be air, there is no way you could hear the difference.
Once again a case of audiophile nervosa taken to the extreme. |
Better to use paper cups than styrofoam. The paper is totally non-conducting (depending on whatever coating may be on it) whereas the styrofoam is a plastic so your reintroducing yet another dialectric in contact with your cables.
. |
55dok, interesting, I`ll check it out.
Thanks. |
I use tube shaped styrofoam pipe insulation found at home depot for a couple of dollars and cut off what I need. Cheap and effective. You can wrap your cables in them and/or cut off enough to make a base to lift the cables off the floor as much as you want. Great for Power cords and speaker cables. |
Mmakshak, stacking styrofoam cups three high and spray painted flat black would look pretty cool as well. I think I`ll try that. |
I use styrofoam cups from Dollar Tree. 3 stacked together almost equal the recommended 8 inches. Total cost=one dollar. |
Do not under any circumstances tie the lines too tightly around the cable, as it tends to constrict both frequency response and soundstage size. Leave just a little room for the signal to breath. . . . , he said with a straight face. |
Stoneware coffee cups - supplemented with a pint or two of your favorite microbrew. As Slipknot1 said - plastics are bad. You want something that doesn't generate static electricity easily and is non-conductive.
Relax, have a New Glarus Fat Squirrel and listen to some Grateful Dead......... |
Sorry, I forgot to mention a very important aspect of implementing the fishing line to cable interface.
Do not under any circumstances tie the lines too tightly around the cable, as it tends to constrict both frequency response and soundstage size. Leave just a little room for the signal to breath.
Also never use a metallic line, since it could act as an antenna to capture RFI and add it to the signal. |
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I have tried red monofilament...but I kept hearing pink noise. |
Slipknot, yes I`ll be dealing with, I assume, artificial fibered carpet over concrete. I think the best set up would be porcelain insulators boosted on 4" blocks for height. Now then, if I can only find some old insulators.... |
Be careful when you construct your own cable lifters. One of the reasons people use them is to lift cables off the carpet to negate the effect of plastics and other artificial fibers in the carpet. Using plastics and foam in a lifter adds back in what you are trying to remove. If your room is hardwood flooring, or your cable runs travel over natural fiber and vegetable dye carpet, you don't have the problem to start with. Teflon, ceramic, glass, natural wood, carbon fiber -good. Plastic bad.
That being said, there are other reasons than those stated above that people use lifters, including aesthetics. |
>> For the absolute best cable/floor isolation, take fishing line and suspend them from the ceiling...You might start with a good clear monofilament or fluorocarbon line at 10lb test...Then try different line strengths and colors, and heights off the floor to get the best sound. Clear tends to sound the most transparent, and saturated colors sound darker.<<
Boy, I bet that's a very attractive setup. And who would have thought that clear line has a "transparent" sound and colored lines "sound darker"? Talk about LOL!
I appreciate all the laughs you guys provide, but sometimes you need to read the stuff you write - it is ludicrous, at best.
-RW- |
I had been thinking of building the tripod as suggested above. However, instead of sitting the cable directly on the wood, I had thought of connecting a piece of teflon tape across the top of two of the legs. Sit the cable on the teflon tape.
Teflon generally is considered a great dielectric and in this case the cable will only be in contact with the teflon tape. Should provide an almost perfect isolation from vibration and electrical influences. Of course, this is all theory so YMMV.
Enjoy,
TIC |
furniture foam cut in pieces may have a dampening effect.
i also may use larger pieces under components as well. |
Great suggestions all. Thorman, I live in the Akron area and I`ll check local shops for old insulators. If I come up empty, there are other suggestions I`ll try. Thanks everybody! |
If you live in New England,theres a shop in Erving,Mass.,that has hundreds of these insulators and are very cheap..I pick up a couple every time I am in the area.. If you need directions I can help..... |
I have an entire collection of the porcelain insulators. Put it together on ebay for the same kinds of prices Thorman mentioned. I like the glass ones even better. BUT shipping is expensive and a lot of them seem to break even with decent packing. Only problem is that they are a bit lower then I would like. |
For the absolute best cable/floor isolation, take fishing line and suspend them from the ceiling. Space the lines a couple of feet apart and keep the cable a few inches above the floor. You might start with a good clear monofilament or fluorocarbon line at 10lb test.
Then try different line strengths and colors, and heights off the floor to get the best sound. Clear tends to sound the most transparent, and saturated colors sound darker. The stronger the line, the more damped the cable will become, and that may sound heavy. Of course your results will depend on the cable, the floor surface and the type of music you like.
When dialed in, this approach is guaranteed to have the best performance for almost no cost, and provides much experimenting fun between listening sessions. For others who may have tried this already, please give the Capt some helpful advice.
PS, Be very careful, as these lines can be hard to see, and someone might get tangled and cause injury to themselves or damage to your equipment.
PSS, I am not associated with any manufacturer of fishing products. |
Yes, Insulators! I use the old green and purple glass ones that I bought at flea market for pennies. |
Three shish-ka-bob sticks wrapped with a rubber band and set up like a teepee - stick the pointy ends into the carpet.
9.5 inch bamboo skewers, 100 count, 89 cents.
Rubber bands, seem to just show up in our house.
Cheap-o audio tweak - priceless. :-)
Cheers,
Tim
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