You could consider PSB Stratus Mini's. They are very open and dynamic. |
I have a 12 x 14 foot room with 8 foot ceilings, and TONS of crap along the walls and scattered throughout, so the effective space may be much smaller.
I've had great success with ProAc Tablette 50 Signatures and ProAc 1SC monitors. Huge soundstage with beautiful female vocals and very nice acoustic instruments. With a sub they can even rock, HARD.
If your ears hurt I have to ask, "how loud are you listening?" I crank it up pretty high, but my ears can survive up to six hours of music.
What are the characteristics of the Piegas? Have you compared them to other speakers in your room? |
That is very close to a square room along two dimensions and is going to really give a boost at about 47hz. The room is probably playing a one note tune of its own at about f#(fourth black key from left on a piano) and multiples thereof. I've never tried to tame such a room w/ traps and stuff. I kind of doubt you can get enough(traps etc) into a room that size. There might be so much boosting that it is interfering with everything else and the room is small enough that you are getting reflections from all over which is often tough on imaging. There might be an electronic way to help. Rives Audio sells something along those lines. In any event, these are serious problems that are going to exist for any speaker. Small rooms with common dimensions can be very tough.
On other hand folks like Gunbei above have a fairly small room and pull it off.
I remain, |
Are the speakers well out into the room ? I have a similar size room, and my speakers (Spicas) are 2.5 feet from the rear wall and 1.5 feet from the side walls, heavily toed in, to minimize side wall reflections. I sit less than 6 feet from the speakers, in a nearfield position.
Pulling the speakers away from walls dramatically improved the imaging and also got rid of boomy bass problems ... it transformed the sound. I think that increased distance from the side wall (plus toe-in) reduces side wall reflections to improve imaging, and increased distance from the rear walls improves bass response.
Do a web search on Cardas room setup, or go to audiophysic's web site ... both have good info on room setup.
Play with positioning before replacing speakers ... it's a lot cheaper ! If you end up having to replace speakers I have found that ls3/5 derivatives work well close to walls and in small rooms .. e.g. spendor or harbeth |
Do check the Cardas site on speaker placement. His formulas got me within inches of optimal placement. A real time saver.
Also, look into room treatment. Try to deaden the wall behind the speakers and add diffusion on the rear wall. I've been increasing the diffussing surfaces on my rear wall - really helping, but still tweaking.
As for new speakers, others will be able to guide you better than I. I will say I am *very* happy with my N805's - strange because some won't pass up a chance to disparage them. Oh, well....
Best, |
Thanks for all your help!!! I have had that bass boominess problem as well. I will go to Cardas and Rives audio to check my numbers.
Chris |
try a diagonal setup. also, try putting some acoustic panels etc at reflection points along w/ diffractor behind seat.
i used to get headaches too in a 12*13*8 room. i don't anymore.
rhyno |
My room is 12'x9'x7.5' and I really tamed the boomy bass by putting my speakers (Linn Ninka activ) on Aurios. The spikes seemed to turn the floor into a resonating board. The Aurios didn't cure it but the improvement was dramatic.
Stuart |
audition the Totem model 1's, staff, or hawk speakers for a small room. I currently use the model 1's with a rel strata III sub in 1 room and a pair of totem arros in my den. They are very nice sounding speakers but I would not suggest the arros for load rock type of music. The arros are made to position close to a back wall if that would help you. |
I have found that bass boominess can be reduced by either moving the speakers further out from the front wall, as well as moving your ears further out from the back wall.
Of course, moving the speakers further out from the front wall also has the added benefit of increasing depth.
Small rooms will generally have more reflection problems, by the mere fact that you can't get your speakers far away from either the front wall or the side walls. Try to get the speakers at least 1.5ft away from any wall.
I have also found that placing echo busters (or acoustic foam for a cheaper solution) at the first reflective points on the side walls to help improve imaging. Also, make sure the floor is either fully carpeted, or at least has a fairly large rug.
With your room dimensions, this is what I would do. It's almost square so it doesn't really matter whether you place the speakers on the shorter or the longer wall. I would place each speaker 2.5 ft from the side wall (measured to center of speaker). That should then make the speakers about 7 ft from each other (again measured to center of speaker). Now move the speakers out about 3 ft from front wall (measured to front of speaker). You should sit about 8 to 9 ft from each speaker, which should leave about a foot between you and the rear wall. This is not as far as I would like from the rear wall, but you can help by placing some absorbent or diffractive material on the wall(if necessary). Play around with toe-in until you get the best balance between imaging and width (can't help you on this one as each speaker is different). But it's worth noting that in a small room, more toe-in does help by reducing the reflections.
By the way, I own Nautilus 805 speakers and very happy with them. I've found that front firing ports are better if you can't get the speakers far away from the front wall. Let us know how you go with these suggestions. |
Anyone else try a diagnal set-up before? Sounds quite interesting - i hadn't considered it and would like to get people's perspective on it. |
I haven't but will be soon. I bought some Vonschweikert vr 4jr's and have a 10 by 10 room. I called Kevin at the VS headquarters and he said for small room to get a good sized sound stage that diagonal is best because the corner behind the speaker and the corners to the side will allow in more room to open up. I've read that before in audiophile rags. Only down side is the speakers will be close to the wall aka more bass problems. On the up side the room reflections will be spread out since it is no longer square.
I realize this post is a year old but anyone else try this?
Rob |
Hmmm, interesting theory Robm321, I've never heard this.
I'm lucky in a way though. Although my room is only 12 x 14 with tons of stuff crammed in there, I have two large open areas behind each speaker. A water closet is behind the left speaker and an open walk-in closet and entry is behind the other.
A week ago I changed to larger floorstanding ProAc Response 2.5s and even they sound great in my acoustically challenged room.
Let us know how the diagonal set up compares to placing them along one of the walls. I'd be curious about your findings. |
I will let you know how it turns out. I read about this in Robert Harleys book too. It seems to be the best bet for square rooms (especially small ones) according to him. However the bass will have to be dealt with since the speakers will be close to the wall.
Also, in the manual for the Vonschweikerts it mentions that in a square room it's the best way to get an even frequency response. We'll see... |
Square rooms are nearly impossible. Try to asymmetrically damp the walls, set up a tight nearfield triangle and move it (and yourself) around the room to reduce bass res and slap-echo. I have friends who have squarish dining rooms with wooden floors, and there's no doubt that the difficulty in comprehension leads to louder levels which produces fatigue well before dessert. It's no different musically. |
