I don't know the Marantz, but according to reviews such as the one in TAS it has an uncommonly good phono stage for an integrated amp. Taking that as fact, I would suggest you hold on to the money you've now got and save up some more. While I've no doubt that either phono stage will better the built-in one, I very much doubt that either will make sit back and think "WOW". |
I believe Agrippa is right. Save up to make a really good preamp purchase. The smaller the signal, the more impact good quality electronics will have. The signal doesn't get much smaller than phono!
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According to reviews the phono stage in the Marantz is very nice. It's hard to to say whether you could improve on it at your budget. What you will probably get with a separate phono stage is more options for loading and gain settings.
The Nova phonomena is a very good phono stage. I have two of them. They're very quiet and have a lot of different loading options and gain settings.
Having said that, I recently picked up a Parks Puffin and like it more than the Nova phonomena. They're $400 new. Very quiet, great soundstage, and tons of adjustments are available. I don't think you'd have much trouble getting most of your money back if you don't like it. |
I think I am hearing what I feared / anticipated. Not sure where I draw the line in terms of a budget. I know there are several popular choices at or above $2,500. I am not ready to make this leap. Is there anything new or used in the $1,000- $1,500 (max) that would be a contender? |
It might be an idea to first quantify exactly what you feel your current setup is missing and hence what you want from a new phono stage.
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Lounge Audio LCR MKIII w/silver and mono switch. |
look on google for a review
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Agrippa - you are certainly correct it would help to define what is missing. If pressed, I would say “not much”, however my perception is limited by my experience. I am hoping to benefit from others whose experience is much more extensive than mine to help me prevent a false expectation.
Like most system upgrades, the impact is limited by the rest of the components. I just upgraded my speakers and, while a casual listener would probably think there was no difference, I can hear a meaningful improvement in SQ.
A major outlay to upgrade the phono preamp may no be warranted without other significant component upgrades which I have no desire to do now. I was hoping someone would say “spend $1500 for a used Angel’s Breath Magnificator Preamp and your life will change”. I have experienced 3 upgrades so far that were material ( amp, cartridge, speakers) and thought I might find a fourth here.
open to any suggestions. |
Also recently purchased a Schiit Mani. Great phono stage that will give a run at preamps in the under $1000 range. Tremendous spacial dynamics and frequency response. Very anti-fatiguing. A gem. Synergistic with Nagaoka cartridges. |
Another vote for the $129 Schiit Mani.
Used one as a backup while my $2500 unit was being serviced.
Smart buying used. Find something less than half retail.
Only concern buying used is no warranty.
Your max stretched a little, something like a tubed Manley Chinook can be found. Subjectively, tubes offer a more convincing presentation.
As mentioned earlier, the Mani is competent against other higher priced SS units.
With the Mani AND savings, you can try a different cart such as an entry level MC cart.
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I have read a little about the Chinook and a couple of other tube preamps (Allnic) but not clear how much influence tube preamp will have when ahead of a SS integrated.
Another candidate I have considered but is fairly new to the market is the Parasound JC3 Jr - the little brother to the well regarded JC3+. Not sure what is given up with the JR but new price is $1,500.
any thoughts on the tube question or the Parasound options?
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The Manley Chinook is what I use in my main system. I haven't done an A/B comparison of the Chinook and the Nova Phonomena, so can't speak to a direct comparison between the two, but the best way I can describe the Chinook is that it is more "musical", there's more information and it draws you into the music in a way that the Phonomena doesn't. The Phonomena is very neutral and quiet, but there's just "more" with the Chinook.
I'm using the Chinook in an all tube system with a Music Hall MMF-7.1 turntable with a Van Den Hul MC Two cartridge.
I've used Jolida JD-9 tubed phono stages in systems with solid state amps and they are complementary.
Many people say that using a combination of SS amps and tubed preamps offer some of the best of both, the control and accuracy of solid state with some of the added "color" you get from tubes.
I have a few Marantz components and they are all very "polite", detailed, but a little laid back. I don't know what your piece sounds like, but if it is typical of the Marantz "house" sound, the Chinook might be a little more dynamic and colorful than the phono pre in the Marantz. I have a hard time imagining that the included phono stage in the Marantz would be better than the Chinook.
The Jolida JD9 is a nice phono stage but when I replaced it with the Chinook it was a pretty dramatic improvement.
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Read some more on the Chinook. Many threads on tube rolling. Leads me to a couple of questions:
What is the typical lifespan of tubes? How do you know when they are going bad?
A number of tube threads on phono preamps relate to “noisy” tubes. Is this an issue with noise emanating from the tube itself or noise in the signal and heard through the speakers?
Is there an issue with the stock Chinook tubes? There are a lot of threads about swapping tubes to improve sound/ performance. Is this something I should plan on having to do eventually, ie stick tubes are Chevys not Porsches?
My only tube experience is with my guitar amps where the mfg uses very basic tubes but there is meaningful sonic changes with aftermarket tubes. However these are usually fairly inexpensive ( $60 total cost) compared to some tubes recommended for Chinook ($500-$800). I would expect the choice by Manley (6922’s) would have optimized their design performance goals.
Thoughts?
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Preamp tubes last for years. I prefer tubes to solid state in the phono preamp and never had any noise problems. As a matter of fact my tube phono preamp is dead quiet! |
Well I managed to find a good deal on a gently used Chinook and picked it up this morning. I plan to try it out later this week at my beach house where I have a second system. I will also try to compare it to both the internal phono stage in my Marantz as well as a Nova Phonomena. I hope I will hear a meaningful improvement in SQ that justifies the price. |
Hello, SJTM! I'm wondering how your comparison worked out? I did the same comparison last year, and it was a hands-down no-brainer - Chinook won by a mile! Did you have the same experience?
To your question about tubes, I rolled in some Tungsram PC88 and it seemed to really wake things up. Clearer, more "tuneful", and overall better tone. I tried a few others, and these are my favorites, at least for now. Rolling tubes is like picking your favorite ice cream. It's all good! But, sometimes you just want a touch of butter pecan.
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Never ended up comparing to the Nova and not sure there is much in the way of scientific evaluation in my comparison to the built in phono stage in the Marantz. The Marantz was evaluated by reviewers ( Absolute Sound among others) as having an exceptionally good phonostage. The Chinook elevated the listening experience of my system to another level. I was so impressed that I jumped on the opportunity to buy a Chinook SE that had a significant tube upgrade by the previous owner. This made a still more revealing enhancement to the clarity and richness of my setup. I will use the original Chinook in my main system ( although, since I am finding lots of excuses for extended weekends at the beach houses, I suppose I should consider this my main system).
Time to put the Nova up for sale.
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BTW - also purchased an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze MC cartridge along with the Chinook SE. Not installed yet, but looking forward to this soon. |
