I have never had VU’s on an amp. I believe that they a just for show. They are too slow to show actual peaks. My tape deck has red LEDs for peaks on top of its VU’s.
As far as the marks it's relating to the log nature of dB. I.e. +6dB is twice (200%) as loud as 0dB (100% or reference.)
I think you’d hear clipping if it were occuring. Don’t worry about damage. The tweeters work fine until they bliow. One always first. I only had it happen once with an 18 watts SS by a crazy girlfriend. |
The dB and % is telling you how much the incoming signal is being reduced or increased. At 0, whatever is coming in is the same as what's going out (e.g. 1V in -> 1V out). At +6 it is double (e.g. 1V in -> 2V out).
The Technics SU-G700 says its line-level input sensitivity is 200mV, so when getting an input signal of 200mV it is outputting 70W into 8Ω. If your CD player is ~2V, or 2000mV, then -20dB / 0.1% would be 70W output, but if you're using the digital inputs I'm not sure but might guess -20dB is also 70W output when the digital signal has 0dBFS data.
Since the numbers are relative to the input signal, the -50 through +6 range isn't equal to a specific volume. If the input signal is someone barely whispering, you might have to turn it up close to +6dB to hear anything. While if the input signal is a pop song recorded at 0dBFS (i.e. max volume) then you probably need to turn it down to somewhere around -30dB or -40dB for normal listening volumes.
But how loud are you playing? The K9 speakers are listed with a sensitivity of 87dB. That should mean 1W at 1m distance is ~87dB and you can only listen to that for like an hour before risk of hearing damage. At 3m away, you only need like 10W for 87dB. And that's per speaker.
I think even if you have some hearing loss already, listening to loud music to compensate will only cause additional hearing loss and maybe also eventually tinnitus.
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I must inform you, you choose speakers that need a LOT of power, they are LOW Sensitivity.
sensitivity = 1 watt in; mic 1 meter away; how loud _____ db???
Your Cantons, given 1 watt, only produce 87db of sound 1 meter away.
I, and many others recommend high efficiency speakers, at least 90db 1w/1m ... (sensitivity +3db above the Cantons)
+3db is the amount of additional sound level needed to just perceive a bit more loudness.
It takes twice as much power to make just +3db sound level.
then twice more to reach 93; twice that to reach 96db, twice that again to reach 99db.
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I would sell those Cantons, and buy speakers 90db sensitivity, or more, 91, 92, to get more volume out of your existing amp. I prefer that to getting more amp to push the in-efficient Cantons to loud levels.
Horn tweeters, horn mids, conventional cone woofer are the most efficient; or horn tweeter, cone mid/lows are efficient, always check specs, sensitivity or efficiency rating.
btw, Canton website specs do not mention efficiency, deplorable, I had to go elsewhere to find the answer.
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Wow guys thank you so much nekoaudio, elliotbnewcomb, and fuzztone for your explanation and advice very much appreciated. I'm playing at different levels depending on the cd and even song .the "Who" Zepplin, Stones Beatles, Tull, etc. the needle is bouncing as high as going anywhere from a little below -10 to 0( on average) with spikes I'm guessing +2. Jazz, blues Dexter Gordon, John Coltrain, Art Pepper, Bill Evans, Mile Davis, Chet Baker, etc. -20,-10 those number and in the late evening even less power,-20,-30 on average. Classical on Telarc, Deutsche, Grammophon Mozart, Brahms, Beethoven, Schuber, Bach, I'm playing back at the -10 to 0 levels unless late then again much -20,-30. I'm listening about 7 ft from the speaker.
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First of all the meters are superfluous. Even peak meters lag a great deal. But the way to read yours is 0dB is 100 watts. Every 3dB up or down is twice or half the power. +6dB and 200 watts is just wrong. Sorry, but it is. +3dB is 200 watts. So your meters aren't even right. Like I said, superfluous. -10dB is 10 watts, at least they got that right. You may wonder how it is that a 70 watt amp has 100W and 200W. This is because of all the different ways we measure power. If you look at your spec page https://www.technics.com/us/products/grand-class/stereo-integrated-amplifier-su-g700.html#specs you will see FTC output power with 70 and 140 watts at 8 and 4 ohms. Its that FTC thing we're concerned with. Amplifiers can put out really high power for a short time- peak power. They get hot being played loud and heat lowers their power output. FTC came along and said no more bragging peak power, you can only say what the amp can do continuously, and after being warmed up. This is all important stuff to know because most guys just look at the number without really understanding what goes into that number. In reality you play your music at whatever level sounds good. The amp clips or doesn't, gets hot and shuts down or doesn't. If you can play it loud enough to be happy, it still sounds okay, its not getting too hot- and the meters aren't pegged a lot- then don't sweat it. Its only if you're running it into clipping a lot- the meters are pegged a lot- that you would worry. In that case the answer is not more power. Your speakers are too inefficient. Because of the fact power doubles every 3dB then to go only 6dB louder you're going to need at least a 300 watt amp. The better answer is much more efficient speakers. Anything 95dB or higher and you'll have plenty of volume and no power worries at all. |
good thread, and excellent responses!!
scott, have fun... enjoy! |
Millercarbon Thank you I'm learning a lot. Darn really like those Cantons but then again I really only have a couple of frames of reference. Sad all the local stereo stores have died off. As a kid I used to go to Soundex( spelling ?) in Willow Grove Pa Woo was that fun to visit you could hear so many levels of goodness depending on your disposable income.
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"The better answer is much more efficient speakers"
Millercarbon5, would it not be easier for the OP to replace the amp with a more powerful one if he is currently over driving it (im not saying he is). Changing speakers seems like a really big deal compared to finding a proper amp seems way easier. I really like your posts to btw.
Matt M
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Those are monitor speakers, and are only going to play so loud before you blow them up. I have the Vento Reference 9.2 DC, which I believe are very similar to your speakers. Mind are in my bedroom and I haven't played them super loud, but managed to blow up one of the woofers. Canton was good about helping to get it fixed, but I wouldn't recommend pushing them too hard. As someone else suggested, if you want loud, get bigger, more efficient speakers. |
Big _greg yes our speakers are the same mine is the newer version of yours. I do not think I am playing them super loud either but I wanted to have some idea of what danger I am putting them in as far as clipping of the amp. My goal is not to blow then up via clipping of amp. my limited budget of $4,000 had to cover speakers, power amp, preamp,DAC, and CD source lol. As I never bought anything on Audiogon I wanted to purchase from a local seller in case there was a problem. There was no problem both sellers were honest and fair and I believe the price most reasonable both products were virtually new. I am pleased with the sound but when I see the needle go past 0/100 not knowing what that means concerned me as I do not want to blow up my speaker. Just want to understand the limits of this system.
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..looks like you just did a lateral arabesque. Those Snells are really good. Anyway, the best sound for the least dollar spent can be had with good headphones and a headphone amp. ....or....you can be absolutely amazed as I was with a Sony Walkman music player and the top Grado in ear headphones. ....and its portable too.
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Add the Sound Analyser app to your phone and measure how loud your music is at your listening position. If over 92dB, you are harming your hearing. That said, add a REL S sub and use it to augment your speakers. You’ll have a blast and you won't feel the need to push the main speaker volume where mid and treble energy do the most hearing damage. |
darn good advice from noromance
subs (a pair ideally) really unlock the sound potential of monitor style speakers - can be truly transformative of systems |
Stringreen I loved those Snells but after 30 years I just wanted something different that was in my limited budget and geo proximity. The Snells also were power-hungry but the Adcom had 200 watts per to drive them. A lateral arabesque indeed but one from the tutued hippos in Fantasia to Misty Copeland at NYC.
Noromance great suggestion thanks. I love how helpful folks are on this site so willing to share their knowledge. to quote
Blanche DuBois
"Whoever you are, I have always depended on the kindness of strangers."
Coincidently this morning Paul McGowan had this valid observation in his soft sell for PS Audio. |
