Hi Brian,
Not so much on the AMR CD-77 but as requested here are my impressions of the PS Audio Power Plant Premier.
I've gone through several sessions of comparison now. The power set-up of the system was as follows:
1) without PS PPP: AMR CD-77 with AMR PC-77 power cord that comes with the player; Tidal Preos and Tidal Intra amps with Audioplan PowerCord-S; cords went into Audioplan PowerStar-S itself directly connected to the wall socket; no filter in between, no dedicated line (rented apartment, sadly)
2) with PS PPP: source's and amps' power cords as mentioned above, each one connected to its own IsoZone (European version has only one outlet per Zone, anyway); PPP connected to socket with PS Audio xStream Plus power cord.
As a preliminary, I would not like to suggest that my system didn't have musical flow, detail, blackness, good soundscape, etc. before the PPP was integrated. It is not as if this machine delivered new characteristics (it may do even that in other systems). I just mention this because sometimes I am puzzled over reviews where yesterday's megabuck Best System appears as if it had been an old crutch until the advent of another new something).
With that out of the way, then, the PPP definitely does deliver more of the good things you may already have!
I went CD per CD (listed below) from w/o PPP to with PPP. In an attempt to summarize, I'd say with PPP the music sounded more "self-evident", indeed cleaner, although certainly not in the sense of sterile but unbothered by those fidgety, freckly little bits (pun not intended) not emanating from any person or instrument in the recording room or even from the room itself, but noises, grain, haze one notices all the more when the PPP is taken back out of the chain. Case in point: "Heartbeat" from Antonio Forcione's Live CD had the combined crystal clearness and multi-faceted fullness of the Uhlen riesling from the Heymann-Loewenstein estate (now, try to beat that!).
That translated in (Achtung! buzz-words ahead) better soundscape, better discernability of detail (a tough one to illustrate this: dEUS's "Bad Timing" builds up broodingly, menacingly to a dense, apocalyptic wall of sound with not a hint of smearing and Tom Barman's voice remaining comprehensible at all times, great). However, that multitude of fine detail is always perceived as part of the musical flow, therefore never tiresome. I also thought bass benefited audibly from the additional cleanliness, there is more variation, a feeling of better understanding what the musician is trying to express (nasty slaps vs. warmly feathering gobs of bass). And of course there is deeper blackness of silence (e.g. on Wulfin Lieske's "What about this, Mr. Tarrega?", just one man playing 7 different historical guitars built between 1856 and 1958).
Perhaps one's mind is just not so busy weeding out the "dirt" that is otherwise there.
Knowing the issue many of us have with customary filters, I had set my mind especially on comparing dynamics and speed. Funnily, the first time I compared Forcione's "Acoustic Revenge", I thought it had lost bite. Until I took the PPP back out: the only thing it had lost was metallic edginess, as was confirmed by listening to sax, trumpet, hi-hat, voices. In fact, the attack actually seemed faster with the PPP (e.g. Prokofiev, "Ivan the Terrible" Overture or BS&T "Hi-De-Ho").
For the comparison, I used the PPP's normal sine wave setting; people may prefer the MultiWave function depending on the gear in the system.
Back to why I mentioned the PPP in this particular thread in the first place: I kept the AMR playing an entire day with the PPP, the next without. The AMR definitely heated up considerably more without PPP.
An odd thing with the European schuko-version of the PPP: the in- and out- antenna connectors are both male, so I had to order customized cable for that, oh well, perhaps someone can give them a hint in Boulder!
I think the PPP is a great machine, that can make listening to music in an already good system more relaxed and more engaging at the same time. I believe with the AMR it is a real winning team. I also believe there is even more to get in combination with top-of-the-range power cords; my next quest, likely.
Cheers
Karel
------
CDs used (in no particular order)
Blood, Sweat & Tears, "3" (MFSL)
dEUS, "Pocket Revolution" (Universal)
Antonio Forcione, "Live!" (Naim Records)
Yes, "Fragile" (MFSL)
ON3, "Guess What?" (Challenge)
Roessler, Vogt, Vitous, "Between the Times" (ACT)
Michael Brecker, "Pilgrimage" (Emarcy)
The New Tony Williams Lifetime, "Believe It" (Columbia)
Rosa Passos & Ron Carter, "Entre Amigos" (Chesky)
Wulfin Lieske, "What about this, Mr. Tarrega?" (Tacet)
Leonard Slatkin w. St. Louis Symphony, Prokofiev - "Ivan The Terrible" (MFSL)
|
Karel, try plugging the AMR direct into the wall and let us know how the sound compares. |
I have been using PS Audio's Power Plant Premier for about a week now and have noticed that even after extended listening sessions, the AMR heats up considerably less than before. Interestingly, the Premier's display shows that the incoming voltage is almost always in the range 238-242 volts instead of the nominal 230 volts it is supposed to be. I can only guess the OptiMains, OptiLevel and whatever other cicuits in the AMR can go about their task much more easily and the chassis remains cooler, or am I babbling physical nonsense?
Btw, so far I am very pleased with the Premier: I can't detect any loss of dynamics or other sonic degradation.
Cheers
Karel |
>>Ndeslions, now that's hard to believe<<
No it's not. I have both players here and he's right.
Disclaimer: retailer for both product lines. |
Ndeslions, now that's hard to believe. But only because the UX3SE is such a phenomenal unit.
I heard the ARM setup at CES and thought in some ways the system was among the very best at the show and in other ways the very best.
But it also was impossible to distinquish the cdp's performance from the rest of the system at CES. And they had some great sounding prototype all-aluminum speakers.
I'd be interested to hear more after the unit has burned in after 50 - 300 hours.
-IMO |
I received mine a few days ago.
Outperformed my Esoteric UX3SE in every area just out of the box... i setup a HTPC with ffdshow for the DVD playback using the USB link to the CD77... now i got a better picture and a clearly better sound.
It's more detailled than the Esoteric but at the same time more natural, fuller, the voices especially.
Analog sound with digital accuracy. |
I also believe that the entire chasse is suppose to act a heat sink so it will get hot but that is by design. I asked the same question at the show in New York. The heat sinks are basically the chasse or something like that but it shouldn't get that hot like you describe |
I can put your mind at ease: it does warm up considerably, but most certainly not to the extent you describe if you give it the top shelf (for a top loader, I think that is what most of us would do) |
I had the opportunity to hear a demo of the AMR on Thursday at the local dealer. Incredible build quality and the sound excellent. Large sound stage, detailed but not obnoxiously so, and quiet. An excellent presentation of the music that initiated a lot of foot tapping.
One negative from my perspective. This thing runs as hot as some tube amps I have encountered. Put my hand on the side panel and could only leave it on there for a couple of seconds. Perhaps it was a lack of ventilation from being on a middle shelf in the rack. In any case that was the only thing that bothered me about the player. Overall it's a winner. |
Hi Bob, since yesterday I am the proud owner of a CD-77. I had been looking to replace my Jadis JD3 that had been showing first mechanical signs of its age and had been auditioning a few machines in the EUR 10k-range including Burmester 001, DCS P8i and Accuphase DP-78 to find that I was not going to fork out the money for the sonic improvements (if any) they could deliver. Meanwhile, Jadis had priced themselves out of my budget, so the quest began for the outsiders.
I stumbled across AMR's website at a time when they did not even have a distributor in Germany, but could arrange with the Benelux distributor for an audition in my system. What followed was an jaw-dropper as I had experienced only once before (Tidal speakers, sure enough). I know it has become a cliché but I'm going to say it anyway: we just sat bathing in music. Mind you, the CD 77 delivers each and every detail on the cd, prominently, but it doesn't single it out and throw it at you to the dreaded extent (to me at least) that you find yourself counting notes and single noises; instead, musical flow, timing and naturalness (listen to clapping of hands!) are breathtaking. Have I heard better? The Naim CD 555 perhaps, but that was not in my system and I may have been led astray by the cranked up volume, and hey, at EUR 23k it had better be very good.
Delivery took three months but, as explained in a letter of apology from AMR, this had to do with some building parts not meeting expectations and mechanical improvements (I suspect to make it fit for dropping unharmed from a roof-top). And so I come to the topic of built quality. Having had to return both my Quad prono-stage as well as my iMac within the first few months after their purchase, both assembled in China, I had become extremely sceptical of the latter - no offence meant. Not the least bit of conspiciousness appears remotely justified here, matter of fact, this is more an example of what "Made in Germany" used to stand for (look at those handmade top of the range turntables, you'll get the drift). I was happy that the distributor has delivered the machine for the audition as well as my own player personally and carried the almost 50kg shipping weight to the second floor himself.
Regards
Karel
|
The AM-77 amplifier also will be demonstrated. |
Hi Steve: Darren at Avatar Acoustics kindly offered to ship one of their fully broken in demo units here for my open house on Saturday the 28th. AMR anticipates shipping the first production run this month, now that they have the correct capacitors from Mundorf. |
So, whas the story, did ya get the players in yet? |
I noticed the 6moons review now spans four pages and includes listening impressions. |
I don't mention my lines as you do. I do not promote my lines as you do. I am not grandstanding as you are. You are nothing more than a self promoter using the "enthusiasm" angle as a means to do facilitate sales.
>>How about finding some products to sell and promote yourself?<<
See above. Unlike your shameless behavior, this is not the place. |
|
|
There's a difference between passion and zealotry. I am for appealing to all ages to interest them in fine music and music reproduction. The latter is unrelated to the first sentence in this paragraph. |
Audiooracle, I agree with you in many ways, I have a 18 year old son who just can't appreciate the hobby we are in. Well he says that he does like the set-up and its cool but then he wants to know how much, when I tell him he just can't comprehend it. When he sees me with a new piece of wire or gear he juckles because he knows. I don't ever see him getting into this hobby nor any of his friends that I have met, they are all into Mac's, IPods and home theatre and not two channel.
I have heard the same about this new AMR player also and can't wait to hear it in my own system, hey if it can out perform my Accustic Arts combo I'll be buying one and put the extra coin in my pocket.
I just ordered the Oracle 2000 transport to hear it with my Dac to see if it betters my AA Drive.
|
Come on Audiofeil and Essential you guys are both going to be dealers and you are questioning "breakthrough" in what AMR is offering? Then why are you going to sell it?
If an $8,500.00 expensive but still affordable CD player can better $20,000-$30,000.00 front ends and is chock full of innovative engineering isn't that a breakthrough?
If you don't believe in the merits of the products you are selling than why be in this industry? No one needs this stuff we sell it, own it, dream about it because we love these hand made works of audio art and are thrilled to get close to the art form which music is.
There have been true breakthrough companies in this industry some have created bold and exciting new technologies while others have raised the bar for sound quality and engineering at lower price points.
The sad thing with the industry is that we are not enrolling new younger buyers into the hobby and spreading the passion about what real music reproduction is all about!
If we don't get SOME new blood into the business we will all be dead so it won't matter if AMR is better than new Coke, just like new Coke we will all be gone!
I will step down from my soap box now, I would welcome constructive ways we can bring new listeners into our shops and spread the world that there is a real alternative to the dreaded B*SE and B*ng and Olf**en's and mass market crap and IPlod's and stuff.
|
What Audiofeil said, with few exceptions. And let's not forget New Coke and "640K RAM ought to be enough for anyone." |
Well well,
we have three dealers who have AMR77 players coming and none of them are willing to send them to me first!!To say that I am hurt is an understatement-Cheers Dennis |
>>this is why AMR is going to be a break though line for now and in the future<<
Edsel
8 track
Corvair
Beta
Satellite Radio
Saccharine
Diesel powered cars
Menudo
Jimmy Carter
Get the point? |
As a new AMR dealer anxiously awaiting my CD 77, I have the same feelings as Essential audio, and I have been in the industry for over 20 years! There are many people who are hailing the AMR as a true breakthrough, in both performance and price!
I do agree with Audiofeil that build quality alone does not mean that the AMR is that good, but there are many people that are really excited about this line and reviewers that I respect who have heard this player, are the same ones that are as excited as the dealers!
The importer told me the story about one of his customers who tried the AMR vs many of the other reference cd playback systems out there and the AMR bettered all of them and low and behold the very same gentleman chimed in with the very same findings and low and behold he bought one.
I have allways believed that engineering and build quality may lead the path to great sound, and I have studied the AMR's build quality in great detail and I have to believe that this is one of the most exciting products I have ever come across so yes I am excited, I am excited to be able to offer my customers the sound quality of a $20,000.00 to $30,000.00 digital front end for $8,500.00 and one that is stunning to look at and luxurious in feel and execution this is why AMR is going to be a break though line for now and in the future! |
Hey Dennis, who you callin' 40? I've gotta tell you that I'm less of a geezer than Audiofeil, but yeah us boomers have to hang together :-) Kids these days!
The kid in me can't wait. |
Come on you guys,
my wife is taking a nursing course and says that 40(me) is the next (20) and that 60 is the next(40)!!So that means you guys are only 40ish for what it is worth.I would like the chance to heft that behemoth around my place,I really admire the design of the player and think that AMR has left no stone unturned.As to the hype,I really trust Darren's critical ear (this guy seems to hear winners IMHO).So if you guys aren't feeling up to it,then send the unit my way and I will do a comparison for you ( of course that is if you guys are still around).Cheers Dennis |
Cenline, actually lifting that behemoth around, as we dealers need to do, will make you feel like an old man (ouch! I shouldn't have done that!). Like Audiofeil, I'm pretty jaded by all the hype and hoopla these days about stuff. We'll see how it goes. |
Dennis,
I am anxious to take delivery; I don't want to minimize that. However, I've been in the hobby, and now business, too long to get excited over the latest release, flavor of the day, hot ticket, newest version, etc. etc. More often than not, it's more hype than substance.
So call me excited in an adult manner taking into consideration that all 57 year olds are not adults.
:-)
Thanks. |
Essentialaudio,
I stand corrected.Audiofeil I thought that excitement made you feel like a kid again?Apparently' it is a musical monster that has a musical heart.I am jealous of you poor on order guys and please let us know where the beast stands in the CDP hierarchy.We are waiting with baited breathe_Cheers Dennis |
I'm waiting as well.
Being somewhat of a cynic (really?) I try not to get too excited, the hype and hoopla notwithstanding.
Om |
The CD player weighs 86 lbs. I am awaiting delivery of the CD-77 within two weeks. By the way, the 6moons review has been updated with quite a few exterior and interior photos on the second and third pages. |
I have the weight of the player wrong,the player doesn't weigh 93lbs but comes in at a paltry 63lbs.Also the player has been put up against some pretty tough competition (Emm labs,essoteric,reimyo,) and has bested them all.The best part about the player is that it is affordable at 8500.00 retail and is actually a bargain in the price to performance level.Apparently the first shipment is due in sometime next 2weeks according to the distributor.I am waiting for the 6-moons review to get a feel for what the player can do!Hope this helps Dennis |
|
I don't usually get involved in answering threads but I feel compelled to jump into this one after reading some of the comments because I have been fortunate enough in having the AMR CD-77 on loan for almost 2 weeks at my home.
I currently own an EMM Labs CDSD transport and DCC2 Dac (original version). In addition, the dealer that lent me the AMR allowed me to take a Reimyo CDP-777 and a highly moded esoteric UX-3 for comparison purposes. I was able to compare all these very high-end pieces in my own environment with my own reference music. Better yet, I deliberately did not ask for the prices of the loaners, as I did not want my pocket to interfere with my ears or the musical experience.
Bottom line: As it always is the case, all of these different fine pieces of equipment had their own merits but going to the point of the original question, I would simply comment that the highest contenders were the EMM and the Reimyo CDP-777.
The EMM, with all its wonderful qualities of resolution and huge stage but to my ears, lacking in musical involvement. The Reimyo, with a very appealing "analog" flavor but with a much narrower and shallower stage, as well as less resolved.
You guessed right if you read that I left the AMR for last as in my estimation, it came out to be my pick as I felt and heard that it incorporated the best of the other two machines while bringing a resolute detail and an authentic musical experience. In my opinion, a musical source rather than a digital player.
The fact that the built quality, the very high quality parts and the appearance were superior. The price point (about half or less of the other two) was incredible. I learned about the price when I placed the order that I eagerly await for.
Whether the machine is designed in one place, the parts come from others and the assembly elsewhere, who cares! I bet you dollars to donuts that the finest orchestras in the world will have fine musicians playing well-made instruments that will both come from various parts of the world.
It is at the end about the music.
As a point of reference, my room is 13 x 19 x 8. My current source is the EMM combo. My amplification ASR Emitter II, Speakers are Kharma 3.2 and the Kharma woofer and cabling is Kubala Emotion and Electraglide.
If you wish to expand further details, do not hesitate to email me directly. |
Dazzdax, you are correct. But apparently Jaybo had something to prove.
Dazz, I don't think the AMR system was like any of the ones you mentioned. My initial post way above mentioned how this system (it was all AMR but with Virtual Dynamics cabling) and it soared like no other we listened to. See above for a few more details.
-IMO |
I'm affraid we are not talking on topic here. The question was: did anyone hear the CD-player and what is his/her opinion regarding this unit? As a matter of fact I'm curious too about the sound of the unit. Is it analog-like similar to Audio Note or 47-Labs DACs or is it dynamic, transparent and spacious sounding like Accuphase?
Chris |
i keep digging and no one in this industry knows of any such factory. no address....nada. |
I worked for the Brits for over five years and know that in Europe it is not common practice to describe the people behind a company and to disclose too much information about where parts are sourced and products manufactured. The reasoning is that the common perception in the UK and the rest of Europe is that customers like to focus on the product and "let the product do the talking".
At the outset, if AMR had dwelled on the people behind the company and where they manufacture but had yet to ship product, they probably would have been criticized for being "full of themselves" and not focusing on getting the product out, which ultimately is their main goal. Meanwhile, if you want to read a factual overview, in which they fully disclosed the structure of the company, check out the 6moons article I mentioned before. |
Jaybo,owning a factory seems to me as a major investment as one may make!The declarations of a company would add to the credentials of said company and solidify the manufacturs image in the consumers mind.On the other hand ,Thorston's reputation is well established in the audio world,weither he feels the need to inform us is his privalege.I do feel that accountablity is a responsibilty for everyone-Cheers Dennis |
all major ticket items..tv's, autos, furniture, etc disclose manufacturing info. its not wrong (or bad) to buy products from any country, its just wrong for any manufacturer to hide behind the generality of 'overseas', particularly when they are asking us to make a major investment. many of these 'instant' hi end companies will disappear, no matter how nice they sound. a little history or info on their website could only help them, not hurt them. |
Williamdc,obviously the player is not for the light of heart and should require a strong back as well! I think that a friend may be in order for installing this one but as you said " I am interested in anything Thorston does" is also how i feel as well. I am hoping that a friend puts up the stratch and brings this monster in soon ( even though I will be the one who gets the lifting honours). Take care Dennis |
Oh man, I am interested in anything Thorsten does, but 93 lbs! I had a SCD-777ES at merely half that weight and messed my back up a few times... |
I dont see Hoover disclosing it on the front page of their web site ;) |
Jaybo, I think that AMR owns the factory that the players are built! My understanding is that they are not a Walmart of the world ( demanding and paying what they deem right)and have peolpe lining up to work at this factory because the wages are the highest in the province.What you are talking about is true disclosure and not even american companies truly disclose what is being produced.As far as consumer go,Walmart does a fantastic business even though they know sweat shop labour is behind the work.Please be careful about how you paint made in China and don't shop at Walmart if you do feel so strongly!Take care Dennis |
there you go...its called disclosure....consumers have a right to know |
Hoover is being sold to a chinese company....
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...i-business-hed
Further, Hoover has had a significant manufacturing base in Mexico for quite some time now and aparently contracts out even more work including to china....
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...4/b3948477.htm
Tonka aparently manufactures in China for more or less the last 9 years....
http://www.100megsfree3.com/lonestar/history.htm |
I have several friends who heard the CD player and were very impressed with both the sonics and build quality.The cd player weighs in at a staggering 93lbs and has been built to a very refined level from a manufactures standpoint ( to build the product anywhere else would add significantly to the cost ).There are a lot of companies that are building components for stuff in china and then assembling the products locally and calling it homemade! I think that many audio companies will have to go offshore to compete globally.I am very impressed with the level of refinement this player offers and the price is almost absurd when you look at the build quality and sonics that's on tap.I know that I would like to hoover and play with that Tonka toy!!Cheers Dennis |
when a company hides its origins...they are not being honest, plain and simple....'designed in england and manufactured overseas' is comical. desiged by whom? and made where?.......heck, even a 'set of cups and saucers' contains more revealing info than many new so called hi end companies. make no mistake, they they be wonderful sounding amps and cd players, its just that at the end of the day, most start up companies are nothing more than marketeers with an office, a bankroll, and a chinese connection who offer a variety of products and services to 'anyone' who wants to jump in to what is 'at the moment', a tecnological gold rush. go to any website from 'hoover' to 'tonka' and you'll learn what real companies tell their consumers. they don't hide behind vague bs. a generic guitar may sound beautiful, but its still a generic guitar. |
The product is completely designed in the UK - just made in china. Why should the place of its assembly be relevent? It sounds great BTW. |
Jaybo why do you say the AMR products come from China? what proof do you have? |
