Has anyone upgraded from an AudioTechnica ART9?

I did a poor job of explaining.... when you are considering spending 8k to 15k or more on a LOMC cart, buying a tape deck and one tape should not be much of an issue. and even if you only have that one tape, you now have a tool for a true A-B comparison against the LP and any cart you wish to try be it MC or MM.

And I would tend to agree with your comment that most MM carts sound closer to the tape than MC carts.

the other point worth making when evaluating an MM or MC cart is the need before hand to make sure the combined system (cart, and phono stage) is (measures flat) with a known  input. YOu can use a NAB broadcast test disc for this or likely others as well.
 

@johnss i wish i could find all my records on reel to reel, but it's simply impossible because most of them are rare, and my taste is not what a typical audiophile reissue label can offer, completely different i would say. Knowing the fact that a tape is always better it is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to a choice of music on tapes available today in comparison with tons of vintage vinyl available today. This is the reason i am with vinyl, not with tapes. 

P.S. For some reason industry professionals claimed the MM sound closer to the mastertape than MC, here is the article i posted million times. 

have not heard the Miyajima MC cart so do not know what it sounds like.

all I was trying to say was I was in overdrive, hard pressed on the search for the best LP playback nirvana, thinking I would find it the more I spent....just was not the case.....

and if you really want to throw a wrench into your LP playback/cart evaluations, don't do what I did and compare the LP to to high speed tape.

Doing so will change your perspective on many LOMC carts.

But if you want to walk down that path, put on the Acoustic sounds Reiner/CSO Pines on LP. then play the same tape available from Acoustic Sounds (you will need a high speed half track deck to play it). Holly cow, so many carts do not get it right.....and many add things not on the tape....

And don't forget the LP came from the tape, not the other way around.

If you can afford the ART1000, buy it, if not buy the ART 9, and you'll be 85% of the way there.

Can't tell you how many kilo bucks I flushed chasing LP nirvana.

happy listening.



 

In my opinion people with all these huge power amps and 3-4 way speakers with active crossovers will never understand sound preferences of the opposite "school" of low power amps and super efficient full range drivers without crossovers. And vice versa!

No matter which brand btw. This is one of the reason the cartridge preferences will be different for these different group of people with completely different preferences in sound. Nothing wrong about it. 

The system with just  2 watts Yamamoto A-8s handmade SET amp (or low power solid state First Watt amp) with high efficient speakers can be much better than all these huge low efficient speakers with many drivers and those huge superpower overpriced 500w monoblocks. 

Low power amps and high efficient speakers in a moderate or small well treated room is all we need, especially if the budget is not unlimited. 

Beside the main system with ZU Druid i was very impressed even by a very small vintage professional Tannoy studio monitors from the 80's which i bought last summer. So i can understand the sound preferences of the Tannoy fans. I can only imagine how their bigger speakers sounds like. 

@lewm 

I strongly doubt that "many thousands" of the very expensive higher power Pass amplifiers are sold, if you're speaking of a single model. If you take total production over the last years, maybe. Otherwise, I agree.

You can watch interview with Nelson Pass on youtube, he explain the difference between Pass Lab and First Watt concept. Also here about very special impossible to find transistors he's using exclusively like Static Induction Transistors (SIT). You will see rare Sony VFET, Toshiba JFET etc in his collection.

Even latest FW sells in many thousands units today via distributors. Not so long ago First Watt was available only direct from Nelson in California. The demand for his gear is much higher, almost cult status for the owners of high efficient speakers like my Zu Audio Druid and others, i use Pass Lab Aleph passive/active preamp and FW F2J power amp which is one of a few current source amp on the market in Nelson Pass opinion today.   


@johnss 

Have the art 9, think its great, but have tried to upstage it with more expensive MC carts, but have not done so. Pretty hard to beat it unless you step up the 1000, but even then, it does not blow away the art 9. Forget LOMC carts from some of the holly grail brands (no names) the art 9 is considerably better, better tracking, better detail, more musical, better imaging....

It must be a very nice cartridge like many Audio-Technica high-tech cartridges, but when it comes to a different and more organic flavor some other cartridge can be even better, no doubt. Ever heard the Miyajima (cross-ring) MC ?  


 

Dear @pani  @lewm  : I don't know why both of you are so incisive about the FW when I can see is not of interest for you and certainly not for me. 

Btw, Magico recommend 20 watts amp ( and up ) for the model I listened.

You have your own reasons for your posts about but no one of you listened what I experienced with, so why insist to put the issue so controversial.

Whom cares?, not me.

Lewm 3-way speakers has several advantages and certainly as anything in audio has trade-offs that depends on the design quality.. I know very well your speakers and certainly are not perfect, so what are you talking about?

R.

Also, some of the oddball power transistors that NP in his FW business likes to play with are unusual compared to typical power transistors in that they act more like voltage gain devices than like current gain devices.  Thus not so good at driving a typical 3- or 4-way crossover. (I hate multi-way passive crossovers in speakers.  I think they are a major source of SQ degradation.)

Yes @rauliruegas I understand the sensitivity and impedance curve properties and their effect on the output. An amp not being is trouble is not enough. Typical modern multi-driver speakers like Magico, Rockport, Avalon, Focal all need a lot of current to come alive and show their full frequency response with uncompressed dynamics. Firstwatt amps will never push them that way because they do not deliver such high currents. The XA has large array of transistors at the output which allows large current swings. It is just a simple comparison between a small amp with a small power supply and a big muscle amp with a large power supply. 

Dear @pani  : Speaker efficiency/sensitivity of 91db like the Magico I listened means that you can get 91db SPL at 1 meter with 1watt and 91db is high volume for any one.

Speacker impedance curve is other parameter to take in count but as I posted I did not be aware of any problem where  I can tell the amp was in " trouble " handling the Magico's.

R.

Magico is a typical modern day speaker. It loves to be driven by quality high power solid state amps. I have heard some of the best installations of Magico and it always shone through with a nice and proper 500 watt amp.

@audiofun uses an ART1000

I strongly doubt that "many thousands" of the very expensive higher power Pass amplifiers are sold, if you're speaking of a single model.  If you take total production over the last years, maybe.  Otherwise, I agree.
Johnss, No one I know has ever heard the ART1000.  Have you?

Dear @johnss  : """  forget LOMC carts from some of the holly grail brands... ""

why should any one do that with out testing/evaluated different cartridges?

You said " ( no names ) but this is the really important issue in your post so if you can share with us the information/first hand experiences you have, it's of true interest to every one.

R.

have the art 9, think its great, but have tried to upstage it with more expensive MC carts, but have not done so.

pretty hard to beat it unless you step up the 1000, but even then, it does not blow away the art 9.

forget LOMC carts from some of the holly grail brands (no names) the art 9 is considerably better, better tracking, better detail, more musical, better imaging....

Dear @lewm  : According reviews with measurements about the Magico differences in sensitivity are only of 0.5-0.8 dbs.

I can't recall model, I was not interested on it. Are you interested on FW?, you can make a call to NP he is really friendly.

Anyway, better if we come back to the OP thread.

R.

Each First Watt amp is different, each amp has unique design, Nelson made 15 different models with absolutely unique topology for each of them ! They are entirely different from each other, they are not the same. 90-92db speakers are NOT high efficient at all, the high efficient speakers is 95db and higher. I’m using current source F2J with 101db speakers - this is a high efficient speaker (without crossover). And this amp, for example, designed ONLY for the full range speakers without crossover.

Anyway, when anyone is here to criticize FW amps at least add the exact model of the amp you owned (and speakers), there are 15 completely different models of First Watt amps on the market today. If some of you tried one FW model and does not like it for some reason it means nothing, because the next model is entirely different from the previous model. This is why people collect different FW amps and willing to try them all to find what they really like with certain speakers. These amps can blow your bind with the right preamp and speakers and they are always reasonably priced, maybe the price tag is too low for posh people, but i am happy about the prices for First Watt on used market, amazing value! And these amps does not made to impress by the way it looks, only by the sound quality!

Regarding the cost: First Watt SIT-1 mono blocks are very expensive compared to any other FW amps anyone can get for $1500-3000 used. But the majority of the classic FW models made ONLY in 100 quantities (assembled 100% by Nelson Pass himself), so they are very hard to find. While the stuff from PASS LABS brand is commercial product, many thousands made by the manufacturer.

sorry for the off topic

Sure.  The "Pass" amplifiers ought to be superior to the FW amplifiers, based on the vast differences in cost.  You don't say what was the power rating of the FW.  I wonder because I would bet that the sensitivity of the Magicos is over-rated, meaning I would bet they are less efficient than advertised.  Moreover, I would bet they have impedance issues around the many crossover points which would affect a low power amp more than more powerful ones.  Which FW amp was it; do you recall?

Dear @pani  : I think the Magico stays around 90db-92db that's a friendly sensitivity, of course is not a horn design.

In the other side we were listening at around 85db-87db SPL.

I did not been aware of something that could told me a problem with the FW handling the Magico.

Lewm it had to be the " rigth " FW amp because the audio distributor target was to shows its very high quality performance on the FW, the FW just can't achieved that target at least no contest vs the XA. As I said part of the mediocrity/average and if you ask me I can't live with satisfaction audio level  with FW  but I can do it with the XA ones.

The XA "  should be superior to the FW based on cost alone..."  

From NP I would like to listen  his XS series.

R.

It may have seemed that I was touting the ART7 as the "best" cartridge.  I was merely bringing it up as a very very good cartridge for relatively modest cost.  I would hazard a guess that it is competitive with others that cost up to $5K, which was the upper limit for the OP, I think.  Also, I am resistant to the notion that you always get what you pay for, and nothing more, in audio equipment.  I think sometimes very expensive equipment can fall short of one's personal expectations.  On the other hand, you can put a modest priced cartridge into a fine tonearm and be very pleasantly surprised.  I also keep in my mind that I would be using the potentially $10,000-cartridge in many cases to play used LPs that I bought for $5 to $10 with an unknown prior history.  (Yes, I only buy mint used LPs with zero visible blemishes, and I often buy new releases, but still...  About a third of my LP collection is made up of records I bought new over the course of time since the mid-60s.  The rest is either from the collection of my close friend, who bought all his LPs new, or used LPs that I bought in Tokyo or at various audio shows.  I don't buy from eBay or from second hand stores.)
Raul, you cannot really say you've heard THE First Watt amplifier, since there are many different versions with different intended uses.  In some cases, he is experimenting and puts out the product for others to critique. As NP says, it's his playground.
Also, I have no doubts that the Etna is good, should be superior to the ART7 based on cost alone.

@rauliruegas Firstwatt amps are not a good match for Magico speakers. They are meant for high efficiency speakers. Even though the power rating of some the firstwatt amps and XA amps are same the actual current capabilities are very different.

Dear @lewm  I forgot about what you ask me in one of your posts about cartridges, megabucks cartridges.

First I really don't listen yet all the 8K+ cartridges out there, I think that like around 10 of them only and no I did not find out one of them that was not up to its " major league " quality performance levels.

As a fact in this " major league " cartridges all sounds more alike than different, its differences in between exist and our choice is only limited my our music/audio preferences but ceratinly not for cartridge limitations.

Of course that what can add some limitations could be our room/system overall resolution and quality whole performace level but even here those cartridge never losted its very high " pedigree ".

In the past I bougth almost every new " major league " design but when suddenly those kind of cartridges prices gone to almost the double I hd to stop buying it becuse I don't have that kind of money. Lucky I'm with friends that own those cartridges and that way I have the opportunity to listen  these elusive megabuck cartridges.

In the other side with cartridges in the 3K-6K price range the differences between the cartridges are significant and higher that with the differences in between the major league samples.

Btw, other than the speakers that you do not like at your friend place maybe the Durand tonearm could not be the best match, even that the Telos is a dual pivot bearing design is not totally stable and that's why Durand new tonearm design is a gimbaled one and the today top of the line ( VPI did it the same too before. ), maybe your friend can borros the Etna for your system.

Now that I remember one gentleman that I think you know is Dgarretson that I think gone from the ART ( I believe the 7. ) to the Etna, you can be in touch with him. What I knew is that was satisfied with.

lewm, with a major league cartridge sample no one can go wrong. Yes we have to have more care in the overall cartridge set up for it can shows at its best and maybe we have to have a music/sound good maturity levels.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Dear @lewm  : I had a rare opportunity to listen the First Watt and XA NP designs in the same system with Magico speakers.

Differences are not nigth and day in favor the XA amplifiers but way notorious. First Watt is a " so so "  amplifier and nothing more where the XA is in a different " world " at quality performance levels.

Personal preferences dictates each one audio items  judgements.

Anywat NP electronic designs are very good and competitive. I remember the very old Threshold S 5000E and the SA-1 when in those times NP preference belongs to bipolar devices instead today MosFets or Jfets. I'm with bipolars as output devices but at the input too and I don't like transformers at the input as in the SIT FW amplifier. Well there is no perfect electronic designs, trade-offs always exist.

R.

Yes, Pass knows everything and thats the point. Very few people know their stuff and even they have reasons to create junk. Anyway, these days I am struggling to find a fine sounding tube phonostage for $5-6k. Something uncolored and true to the source. SS sounds too grey at that level.

Pass experimental platform is First Watt and those amp for many years have been handmade by him only in very small quantities (100 units each). Then he start making more units of each. But each amp is unique in its design, each one is different. As he said in the interview they are tested and voiced on Tannoy. I adore his design, because i'm using crossoverless Zu Druid speakers (Nelson also own Zu and like them). But he made several FW amps not only for high efficient speakers. Anyway First Watt is like laboratory for unique design from the genius. People collect different First Watt amps. After an audition of First Watt amps no one can say anything bad about Solid State versus Tubes. Actually i think First Watt is superior to tube amps, but my experience with tube amps is limited. The price for any First Watt (except maybe SIT monoblocks) is so affordable, it's a clean winner. Highly recommended.   

In my opinion a highly valuable vintage gear is Cartridges, Reel to Reel machines, DD Turntables, Speakers, NOS tubes. 

P.S. Nelson has mentioned some extremely rare transistors made by Sony back in the day.    

I guess one can argue both pro and con on the comparison between "modern" and "vintage" gear, by one's selection of products to argue about.  Surely I would not disagree that there is some very expensive modern junk out there.  In vintage gear, the greatest values may be found in speakers, I think, such as the Quad 57 and KLH 9 ESLs, for two examples. Then there are the vintage direct drive turntables, which have come into vogue partly because there are so few modern direct drive turntables from which to choose, and the ones we do have are very expensive.  It's selective.  But I won't concede that the 1970s and 80s vintage Japanese amplifiers and phono stages have anything special to offer us in the here and now.  They're cool and collectible, but that's about it.
I have heard older Pass solid state amplifiers, and they are fine.  I have also heard First Watt amplifiers and like them as well, on efficient speakers.  But I would not have thought that the latest Pass amplifiers were as flawed as you say.  If so, that's too bad, because Mr Pass knows more about solid state circuits than most and can apparently do whatever he wants.

@lewm we are not discussing the same thing I guess. I am not a vintage lover or anything. I have actually used modern stuff mostly in my system. The Garrard 301 is the only classic item I have. 

What I meant was, with all the limitations in the past they were able to make products that sounded like music. Many of them. Today the same McIntosh has nothing special to offer so they reissued the MC275 and still could not better it with all the great parts they have today. And 275 was not their best sounding amp anyway. Same with Marantz and Quad and others. The point is we have great parts today but the sum of the parts is not as great in many cases. Probably because it is all about voicing something to show in Munich and sell. After a couple of years its gone. Unlike the timeless classics we just discussed. A single guy makes a "me too" product dressed in a fancier chassis and sells for $$$, thats how we see most high ends today. In such a world the Shindos and Kondos are rare geniuses who know what they are doing. 

The best example is as you rightly pointed out, Pass Labs. On one hand we have firstwatt which sounds pure, clear and lively like real music and then we have the Pass Labs amps which sounds boring and lazy with a sameness in tonality no matter what you throw at it. Totally 2 different sounds. Why ? Is it so difficult to hear which one sounds more like real music ? Naa...the idea is to sell a big monoblock which can put out 1000 watts. After all it is price per watt! I am not saying all big amps sound bad but this is a typical case where it is a clear step backwards even with all the great parts resulting in great SNR, accuracy, resolution etc etc.

On the contrary it is quite opposite in the AV, Television and automotive industry. May be music is too niche and narrow to accomodate too many great minds.

 Ortofon Winfield, and Benz LPS are better than the black at about that price.

Dear @pani  : """  It is a pity that so many of them are out there to screw up the sound of the original music. Then there are reviewers who give them 10/10, to make things even more miserable.

Only a handful of the manufacturers today really know how to preserve the signal while improving fidelity. In that respect good old vintage stuff was much more consistent. """

I agree with @lewm  on his post about modern/today electronics ( and I can tell cartridges too. ).

I don't know from where came your " screw up the original music ". For me that makes no sense because today designs not only are better designs but as lewm mentioned way better passive and active parts and this means THAT ALMOST ALL THESE MODERN DESIGNS ARE TRUER TO THE RECORDING WITH A LOT LESS " COLORATIONS "/DISTORTIONS. Why do you think " srew up the original MUSIC?

No one can make recordings of original music preserving exactly the same, it's no way my friend.

" Vintage stuff was much more consistent?  " I don't know for sure what you are talking about,sorry.

R.

Dear @jbhiller  : I read that your budget is between 2k-5k but maybe is a misunderstood by my self.

Anyway, December is " down the corner " so my take is to re-tip the ART 9 and look for money for the Etna or something similar in that league at " " fair " price.

R.

Pani, We're far apart if you admire old Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, McIntosh, Quad solid state electronics compared to recent vintage (last 10 years, for an example).  There have been significant advances in transistor technology since the 70s and 80s, and those old circuits are needlessly complex as well (especially the Japanese stuff), with electrolytics and cheap switches in the signal path, here and there. Plus, we have much better parts these days, even if they're sometimes poorly applied. But that's OK.  I'd look at the work of Nelson Pass as an example of advanced thinking.

I am talking to the EMT Engineers about the 139st. Let’s see. The one they sell has only an MC input with EMT MC transformers. I am asking them to add an mm input too. 

Just compare old Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, McIntosh, Quad to their latest models. 
I am not even talking about Western Electric :-)

Anyway, in some areas we have some better stuff today but in many areas we have lost too. The reason is, it’s all MBA driven. 

I think the best modern designs blow away the so-called "classics", for frequency response, neutrality, dynamics, you-name-it.  Have you ever heard a Marantz 7C preamplifier in its original form, or the Marantz and McIntosh amplifiers that are so adored and that still bring prices in the 5-figure category?  How about a Phase Linear or SAE amplifier, or the Harmon-Kardon SS preamplifier that HP once declared to be the best available (back in the 70s)? I've owned some of the former group of tube gear, and they are massively colored, overly warm, with muddy bass response, etc.  The solid state stuff had different issues but was also awful by modern standards. Anyway, we can agree to disagree.
Have you gone ahead with your plan to purchase the EMT phono stage?

I think most designers are searching for the elusive quality of "neutral".

This is the only statement I disagree with. 
Most designers today as just that..designers. They want to make something special that they can sell for xyz dollars. Special stuff always sound "special", not original. It is a pity that so many of them are out there to screw up the sound of the original music. Then there are reviewers who give them 10/10, to make things even more miserable.

Only a handful of the manufacturers today really know how to preserve the signal while improving fidelity. In that respect good old vintage stuff was much more consistent.

Raul, your post is intriguing.  $5k is not in the budget (yet) so I cannot move on that Etna. Nontheless, your sage words are not lost on me.  I'll keep a lookout come December when I may have cash to go that high. 

Raul, Your post is very interesting to me, because I have always wondered whether you can get your money's worth in the $10K and up price range.  You apparently think the answer is yes, but for a very limited few cartridges that you named.  As you know, there are many others in the same price range.  Have you sampled some ultra-expensive cartridges that don't impress?  My neighbor who lives only a few hundred yards away has a very nice system that I have heard many, many times. I believe I have heard an Etna and one of the very costly Clearaudio cartridges at his house, in a Durand Telos tonearm and lately in a top line Schroeder tonearm on his Doehmann turntable (which I rank very highly).  I wasn't blown away by any of his very expensive cartridges, but maybe that is partly because I am not a big fan of his current speakers.  I far prefer the sound I get at my house from either of my two systems with at least 3 or 3 of my own cartridges.  Which goes to show you.... Something.

Amen, actually i explained why i think so, but you explained nothing.
Is it good or bad that i have the answers ? I have the answers at least for myself

I owned a few brand new modern LOMC cartridges up to $3-5k each, i was effected by reviews and thought that modern high-end must be definitely better, if you’re happy with stuff like that i have no problem about it, but just do not try to say that everything modern is better or more convenient, just because it’s in the shops with warranty and reviewed by critics. I remember someone said he can’t even audition most of those new expensive carts at the dealers, but i knew that Miyajima dealer in US offered trial for his customers.  

Serious tube lovers still using NOS tubes from the 50’s in 21st century, Altec speakers and other vintage audio stuff like that. You know what i mean. This is not because they can’t afford modern audio gear, this is because of the sound preferences. If we should have follow the trends then we’re all must listen to digital only and all that funny looking equipment that everyone can watch after some big audioshow at M.Fremer’s youtube channel with his shaking camera and sometimes awful sound.

I’ve seen the dealers like OMA and their passion and inspiration is vintage audio gear, here is the video. It is funny but even the best new tubes are just replicas of the design from the 30th (Like those new Emission Lab 45s etc). Same about many speaker drivers etc, look at the Kondo, Tannoy, OMA ... 

Vintage audio gear can be outstanding (including cartridges).

Seriously Chak...
" my comment is irrelevant"
Really??

And of course all of yours are.


If you think in today’s age that the lack of oem stylus is not a major reason for people to look elsewhere than vintage MM then you are not in touch with reality imho.
No offense.......


Anyways time to leave this point as it will only derail the thread and nobody can argue with you Chak, you have all the answers.
God bless.

@uberwaltz

One thing you have to remember with vintage mm carts is that not everyone is prepared to take a chance on one no matter even if it is NOS.It will still be 40 to 50 years old. And also the dearth of styli is another crucial factor that puts a lot of people off.No shortage of vintage mm on eBay SANS stylus! For some the convenience of just going with a new readily available cartridge is half the battle.

This is why i have mentioned Miyajima.

BUT

Over the years we had huge topic about vintage MM and almost everyone who ever tried some vintage MM "cart of the month" was so happy about it (tons of feedbacks), so your comment is irrelevant. Yes, some of them are rare, but most of us have/had them all somehow. I want to point you that the most problematic vintage MM cartridge (Technics P100 mk4 or 205 mk4) is notorious for dead suspension, but it was the most popular in that topic and everyone raved about it. It was always the most expensive one and still is the most expensive, i would say overpriced, VdH service was terribly expensive too. People are strange. I do not recommend such cartridges since i tried many samples to make sure it is problematic and not for purists (who does not want to bother with refurbishing). What i do recommend is actually does not have any problem with dampers etc, the rubber in the damper is much better that Technics rubber and for this reason none of them degrades it time (at least we can’t notice that by ears or visually).

Regarding vintage MC everyone knows that FR-7fz by Ikeda has sealed suspension. Nobody never seen a bad 40 years old sample (if it wasn’t physically damaged by someone). This is a proper design for decades, but i want to remind you about some modern cartridges that simply does not designed to survive in time, suspension on such new carts degrades faster than stylus tip. I remember such comments from the owners on audiogon. This is one of the reason i always repeat that high price does not mean superb quality. This is a problem of some modern LOMC, you may think they are better and easy to service, but the policy of manufacturer’s support/service does not even expect service, just an exchange to a new sample (you know this). They are made for reach people, definitely not for everyone.

So everyone can find good and bad things about each type of cartridges (NEW vs. OLD ... MM vs. MC ... you name it).

Personally i would never buy even $2k cartridge for myself anymore, but for some people even $9k is not a problem. There is no universal rules, we can only mention some facts and share our personal experience, but we may have completely different point of views. This is like TUBE vs. SOLID STATE ... or DIGITAL vs. ANALOG ...

My point of view: It is better to buy 3-5 different top vintage MM or a few decent vintage MC than just to buy one $5k modern cartridge. But anyway, this is just my philosophy regarding cartridges.

@pani,  you sound like a fun and adventurous audiophile!  Keep posting!  Your candor and humilty is refreshing here. 

@rauliruegas , Am I reading this right--the Etna is a $9k cart?  Oh my.  Not happening.  Your overall expertise is, as usual, spot on  and I always appreciate it when you chime in.

To all, the Art 9 has miles on her and I'm just thinking because I like to think about this stuff well before buying--not because I'm patient, but because I like the process!

To be very honest, I'm not sure what I don't like about the ART9.  I could just repurchase it and be content.  Audio seems a bit different than jobs, spouses/partners, etc.  It seems sometimes curiosity says, "hey, this is a fun area of life to experiment so be sure to try a ton of stuff.".  

@chakster , you make a good point on moving on.  Fremer's words about the ART 1000 make me very curious.  

Chak
One thing you have to remember with vintage mm carts is that not everyone is prepared to take a chance on one no matter even if it is NOS.
It will still be 40 to 50 years old.
And also the dearth of styli is another crucial factor that puts a lot of people off.
No shortage of vintage mm on eBay SANS stylus!

For some the convenience of just going with a new readily available cartridge is half the battle.

Dear @jbhiller  : Over 90% of we music lovers/audiophiles belongs/own cartridges in the average/mediocre quality performance and only 5%-8% really own and KNOW the differences between the " mediocrity " and the very top true quality cartridge performance.
 Normally many of us can't own and play in the big/major cartridge league/class because its extremely high prices, inssane for we " mere mortals ".

The Lyra Etna/Atlas, Anna diamond, Goldfinger and the like belongs to that " major league " where almost all the cartridges named here just can't " touch " it, not even near of it. As I said is other totally different " league " no matters what.

The vintage ones are part of that " mediocrity ". I owned and still own several vintage cartridges and made it " thousands " of evaluations against modern designs and if it's true that some vintage ones can compete with today designs it's true that are far away to compete with the " major league ".

Btw, @lewm  the ART2000 ( that I owned ) is a BS of MC AT cartridge and I have a great respect for AT because I owned or listened almost all its past/today cartridge catalogue.
I think that when any one of us are taking opinions from other gentlemans and especially in cartridges we have to be sure which kind of quality performance could have the home system of the gentlemans that offered those opinions, against which other cartridges made it its evaluations in their own systems and their priorities/preferences in music/sound quality performance.
For many of us is very easy to spend " other person money ".

I had the opportunity to have in my system not only the Etna or the Goldfinger but other " major league " cartridges when I made a review of a vintage cartridge.
The top cartridges came from friends of mine that were at my place during that evaluations/tests in my review. So I'm talking by first hand experiences.
 Yes I own several cartridges in the mediocrity quality performance where some of them can give us 80%-85% of the quality performance of a " major league " one. Yes, that additional 10%-15% of quality performance has its price a very high one but it's worth to listen it and better yet to have/own it.

@jbhiller  the Etna is inside your budget and it's a major league player, it's a bullet proof alternative you will not found out any sign of the mediocre carrtridges as the AT9 and almost all we named here: is a total different " game ".

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

@lewm actually i loved my ART-2000 so much and it was one of the best MC for the money ($600-700 about 6 years ago), i only sold it because i was thinking that for $3500 and $4500 i will get even more satisfaction, i expected another level of performance for more money, but i was wrong!

The price tag has almost nothing to do with quality when it comes to modern MC cartridges, as i said the most enjoyable cartridges i have heard are within $500-1500 price range since we can find the best deals, but the red line is $2k for something exotic and rare, personally i will never cross this line anymore. Anything lastest in ART series since the ART-2000 can be slightly better, and while i never owned ART9 myself (in my system) i know many people who own it. It is a good cartridge and AT is not a company that will sell their great cartridges for super expensive prices, their prices is more than reasonable and the quality is superb even compared to much more expensive cartridges from some other manufacturers. But this is a new cartridge and it’s trendy Moving Coil design. They do not make any Moving Magnet on the level of AT-ML180 OCC and people who designed them are retired.

Now we have AT reference AT ART-1000 inspired by those old Victor Direct Couple design such as MC-1, MC-L10 and MC-1000 (some of them are problematic and does not pass the time test, but my samples are perfect). Here is M.Fremer interview with people from Audio-Technica about ART-1000. The OP could easily try this and the difference must be huge compared to ART-9 and ART-7, because the design is completely different (and the price too).

But in this hobby we can’t stop on one cartridge and i completely understand the strong desire to try something totally different. The world of vintage cartridges will open the door to something very interesting and not always expensive. If one prefer an MC then carts from Miyabi's Takeda-San (retired) or Isamu Ikeda (RIP) are very interesting. Regarding the new japanese brands there is a Miyajima Lab with its unique cross-ring design (amazing reviews if it’s important).

I had interest in the ART 7 years ago after reading all the praise for it here. Then, on one of Harry's rare appearances here, he said something similar to what pani is saying.....that he found it analytical..(paraphrasing). I think this is probably why I've never purchased one.

Pani, First of all, I do apologize if you felt insulted by my mention of your proclivities.  I meant no slur but was trying to use you as an example of some who like to change their gear, up and down the line, from time to time, just for the fun and interest of it.  And, as I did say, there's nothing wrong with that at all.  Now, here you ask for a "good tube phono stage" that is not "voiced".  By this I assume you mean that you start from the position that most ARE voiced for this or that type of sound.  I disagree with that general assumption, although it may be applicable in some cases. I think most designers are searching for the elusive quality of "neutral".  The problem is that they cannot predict what other products will be mated to their particular phono stage.  Choices made on the upstream side (the cartridge) and on the downstream side (amplifier and speakers, not to mention the room itself) will inevitably affect the sum total of how a system sounds, if you stick one phono stage into it, and then another phono stage is substituted, while keeping everything else constant.  You can easily end up chasing your tail.  If you want a phono stage with no personality of its own, on average you might prefer solid state.  On the other hand, some solid state phonos fail to deliver what some of the better tube phonos do best.  You may have to spend large bucks for a solid state phono that can do it all and do it well. You'll have to judge for yourself.  I am not saying here that SS is better than tubes or vice-versa, in case anyone takes offense.

Chak, I think I could agree that there may be an Audio Technica "house sound".  I haven't really heard enough of their product line to be absolutely sure of that, but you do profess to love the ATML180 and 170 (forgive me for any error in the alphanumeric designation, but you know the ones I mean).  And I guess you owned an AT2000 MC and sold it.  But how can you know how the ART9 and ART7 sound just from those experiences?  In particular, there is no reason to assume the 7 and 9 sound no better than the 2000, which you apparently did not love. I can't speak about the ART9, because I have never heard it, but my ART7 was at first a bit too "clinical" sounding for my tastes, in my Beveridge system. But it did exhibit an extended bass response and exceptional detail retrieval. It takes me a long time to break in new cartridges, because I am constantly flitting around with my different turntables and other cartridges, but finally in the last few hours of use my ART7 seems to have "broken in", in that it has begun to be able to convey the emotions of music while still revealing inner detail and a great bass response (qualities that it always did have).  I think it's a real winner especially in its price class, and especially since that price class includes many of the great vintage MM and MI cartridges that we both appreciate.  Some of the latter even cost more and are much harder to find, and when you find them you cannot be sure of condition.  So, if you have enough gain, the ART7 is a worthy contender.  Probably the ART9 is too.

If you follow Pani's posts, you might notice that he is frequently in the market for a new this or a new that. There's nothing wrong with that; it's part of the fun of the hobby for some of us, but it does suggest that Pani is on a different journey or has yet to figure out where he wants to go with his home sound. It takes decades for some of us to get there.

That was a scathing attack @lewm :-)
I don't mind though.

If you go back to all my posts, I seldom recommend anything highly. I know what I want and I also know what I am not getting. It is disgusting to see so many expensive hifi audio products being so voiced. And I am very unforgiving if music loses any of its basic fundamental qualities of tone, timing, flow or harmonics. My logic is simple, if I can enjoy a song on television or my bluetooth speaker then it should sound 100 times more enjoyble on my hifi system. But when even a single equipment in the chain tweaks basic musical structure, the message is lost. 

My Tannoy speakers, Garrard 301 and Denon 103r have been with me for a long time because they preserve the basics of music. I tried to find a quieter TT and tried the Technics DDs. They took away the flow for quietness. Similarly I tried various cartridges prior to ART9. To name a few Lyra Skala, Delos, Kontrpunkt B, Miyabi 47, Benz Ebony TR and Zyx R100. ART9 was the most acceptable high resolution cartridge among them so I used it for well over 1000 hours. 

EMT makes the ART9 sound more CD like. Definitely a more matured analog presentation by EMT. If you notice I didn't come back and recommend EMT as enthusiastically as I did the ART9. Probably because ART9 came in when I was frustrated with relatively voiced cartridges and at a price which most of us could afford. The EMT is not that big a change for me. Just that I happy it is a natural upgrade with a little more money. 

Now I am looking for a good tube phonostage for the EMT. Again something thats not voiced. Any suggestions ? 

If I read it correct the OP has a wish to experience something different from a
Art 9, that is not more than $2000 as this purchase value has already been rejected, or the purchase value was rejected as the noticed change in the auditioned cartridge did not justify to the OP, the additional outlay.
The Art 9 is a modern concept on the presentation it offers, heading into reference area, where it will be very revealing and entering the analytical playback, it will not be seen as rich or outstanding in its capability of laying out every detail in clinical sense.
This experience with the Art 9 will leave the OP with a general understanding of what it is they are looking to change in relation to a Art 9 presentation.
The route of the Ortofon Anna and A95 will be going into the realms of analytical detail, at a increased cost.
The EMT sounds like it has brought a richer presentation, suiting the ear of the other Art 9 owner, the Denon referred to will also be in the rich department.
The OP will need to work out for themselves where they feel the Art 9 Cartridge is not delivering for their personal preference.
If they feel they are requiring a little more detailing this might just be achievable by trialing with a Hardened Material for a Platter Mat, to change the attenuation, and this can be taken further by improving on sub plinth isolation.
For me I would choose a Cartridge that at the end of it service, it can be given more than a re-tip, I like a cartridge that can have parts attached to overhaul the inner working parts, and even better have these parts replaced for ones that belong to much more expensive models.
My experience of using this method has been to receive a real high quality cartridge, that totally satisfies my ears and budget.           

I've got a lot of miles on this ART9 so I know there's a funeral coming up.  80% of me says to repurchase or send it in for a retip.  20% says that was wonderful so there must be something more wonderful.  Admitting that feels cathartic.  

I must admit to also having the wanderlust as far as carts ( and even TT) are concerned too.
Just so many great options.
Now while I have a number of very nice vintage mm carts from AT, Sony, Astatic, Glanz etc I usually find myself coming back to my Scheu Analog SL mc cart so not quite sure where I am heading on my journey.
More expensive modern mc or even more rare ( read also expensive!) Vintage mm carts.
No idea but it is a fun ride!

If you follow Pani's posts, you might notice that he is frequently in the market for a new this or a new that.  There's nothing wrong with that; it's part of the fun of the hobby for some of us, but it does suggest that Pani is on a different journey or has yet to figure out where he wants to go with his home sound.  It takes decades for some of us to get there.

@uberwalts

I would have said the art7 was a worthy alternative to the art9. The 20Sla not so much......

Maybe, who knows. For me an alternative is something different, not just the same house sound of the recent AT LOMC which i am quiet familiar with since the ART2000. As you can see our Pani went completely different direction from the modern AT MC sound.

The vintage AT MM is different and can be an alternative too, but i prefer AT-ML180 OCC to the earlier AT20SLa. The "sound of mastertape" is all about MM. They can be much cheaper as the AT20SLa , but AT-ML180 ain’t cheap at all. Anyway it is an alternative Moving Magnet sound to the Moving Coil sound.

As for the LOMC with warmer organic analog sound, as an alternative to the modern ART9 sound, the old Miyabi and modern Miyajima is the way to go in my opinion.