Has anyone upgraded from an AudioTechnica ART9?

You should ask our man @pani 

In my own experience moving from limited edition $700 AT ART-2000 to another $3-4000 cartridge wan NOT positive and does not improved the sound as much as i expected according to the price i paid.

Higher price does not guarantee the improvement and satisfaction.
I think $700-1500 is enough money for amazing cartridge for your particular arm, especially if you are not afraid to buy vintage stuff and do not believe that MC is always better than MM/MI.

And yes, personal experience is the most important to find what you like in your system. 

@slimpikins5

If you like Whest so much you can easily find what he’s using on his instagram.

The world of amazing Audio-Technica MM cartridges is a bit wider than AT20ss and AT20 series in general, as you know my personal favorite is AT-ML180 OCC from the 80’s, but the AT20SLa from the 70’s was also great in my system. Well, even AT-ML150 OCC can beat anything under $700. Comparing the best AT LOMC to the best AT vintage MM is great experience, highly recommended, my preference in this aspect quickly became an MM (nothing to lose in comparison with AT LOMC, but replaceable stylus is a benefit compared to re-tip).

In my opinion any good phono stage must handle a wide range of cartridges, the problematic area is only extremely low output LOMC like Ortofon MC2000, very few phono stage can handle it (and very few SUTs too). This is the only 1 cartridge out of 20-30 i have tried, that is a problematic with most of the phono stages. Anything else with 0,15 mV and higher never caused any problems with various phono stages.

@slaw With the only difference that LPGear’s stylus as always was blank without Audio-Technica logo and without stamped model number on it. Looks different compared to the original. This is for example the original and cartridge body. 

Chak
Those pictures were of the 20Sla, not the art7 which we were discussing?
What is the relevance?

Good point, but we’re discussing ART-9 in general and alternatives, not the ART-7 as you may think, LOL

BTW i think the great alternative for the OP if he’s looking for something completely different can be Miyajima Kansui or Madake (with $2k-5k it is possible) 

@slaw

Does your post imply lpgear is selling non-authentic cartridges?

My point was just about the styli they are selling for an old discontinued vintage AT Moving Magnet cartridges from the 70's, such as AT20SLa, those styli does not have a gold AT logo on it, they does not have a dished numbers on it, so i have no idea what they are selling and why should i trust them, but as a collector of the original vintage AT cartridges i know for sure that original styli looks different and they are all have an ID of genuine AT products such as LOGO and NUMBER. Audio-Technica cartridges i have own (or owned) are not from Europe and USA, they are from the region of manufacturing and they are genuine, at the same time they are different from LP Gear stuff. This is all i’m trying to say, each one can make their own conclusion. This is a closeup picture of my original stylus.

@uberwalts

I would have said the art7 was a worthy alternative to the art9. The 20Sla not so much......

Maybe, who knows. For me an alternative is something different, not just the same house sound of the recent AT LOMC which i am quiet familiar with since the ART2000. As you can see our Pani went completely different direction from the modern AT MC sound.

The vintage AT MM is different and can be an alternative too, but i prefer AT-ML180 OCC to the earlier AT20SLa. The "sound of mastertape" is all about MM. They can be much cheaper as the AT20SLa , but AT-ML180 ain’t cheap at all. Anyway it is an alternative Moving Magnet sound to the Moving Coil sound.

As for the LOMC with warmer organic analog sound, as an alternative to the modern ART9 sound, the old Miyabi and modern Miyajima is the way to go in my opinion.

@lewm actually i loved my ART-2000 so much and it was one of the best MC for the money ($600-700 about 6 years ago), i only sold it because i was thinking that for $3500 and $4500 i will get even more satisfaction, i expected another level of performance for more money, but i was wrong!

The price tag has almost nothing to do with quality when it comes to modern MC cartridges, as i said the most enjoyable cartridges i have heard are within $500-1500 price range since we can find the best deals, but the red line is $2k for something exotic and rare, personally i will never cross this line anymore. Anything lastest in ART series since the ART-2000 can be slightly better, and while i never owned ART9 myself (in my system) i know many people who own it. It is a good cartridge and AT is not a company that will sell their great cartridges for super expensive prices, their prices is more than reasonable and the quality is superb even compared to much more expensive cartridges from some other manufacturers. But this is a new cartridge and it’s trendy Moving Coil design. They do not make any Moving Magnet on the level of AT-ML180 OCC and people who designed them are retired.

Now we have AT reference AT ART-1000 inspired by those old Victor Direct Couple design such as MC-1, MC-L10 and MC-1000 (some of them are problematic and does not pass the time test, but my samples are perfect). Here is M.Fremer interview with people from Audio-Technica about ART-1000. The OP could easily try this and the difference must be huge compared to ART-9 and ART-7, because the design is completely different (and the price too).

But in this hobby we can’t stop on one cartridge and i completely understand the strong desire to try something totally different. The world of vintage cartridges will open the door to something very interesting and not always expensive. If one prefer an MC then carts from Miyabi's Takeda-San (retired) or Isamu Ikeda (RIP) are very interesting. Regarding the new japanese brands there is a Miyajima Lab with its unique cross-ring design (amazing reviews if it’s important).

@uberwaltz

One thing you have to remember with vintage mm carts is that not everyone is prepared to take a chance on one no matter even if it is NOS.It will still be 40 to 50 years old. And also the dearth of styli is another crucial factor that puts a lot of people off.No shortage of vintage mm on eBay SANS stylus! For some the convenience of just going with a new readily available cartridge is half the battle.

This is why i have mentioned Miyajima.

BUT

Over the years we had huge topic about vintage MM and almost everyone who ever tried some vintage MM "cart of the month" was so happy about it (tons of feedbacks), so your comment is irrelevant. Yes, some of them are rare, but most of us have/had them all somehow. I want to point you that the most problematic vintage MM cartridge (Technics P100 mk4 or 205 mk4) is notorious for dead suspension, but it was the most popular in that topic and everyone raved about it. It was always the most expensive one and still is the most expensive, i would say overpriced, VdH service was terribly expensive too. People are strange. I do not recommend such cartridges since i tried many samples to make sure it is problematic and not for purists (who does not want to bother with refurbishing). What i do recommend is actually does not have any problem with dampers etc, the rubber in the damper is much better that Technics rubber and for this reason none of them degrades it time (at least we can’t notice that by ears or visually).

Regarding vintage MC everyone knows that FR-7fz by Ikeda has sealed suspension. Nobody never seen a bad 40 years old sample (if it wasn’t physically damaged by someone). This is a proper design for decades, but i want to remind you about some modern cartridges that simply does not designed to survive in time, suspension on such new carts degrades faster than stylus tip. I remember such comments from the owners on audiogon. This is one of the reason i always repeat that high price does not mean superb quality. This is a problem of some modern LOMC, you may think they are better and easy to service, but the policy of manufacturer’s support/service does not even expect service, just an exchange to a new sample (you know this). They are made for reach people, definitely not for everyone.

So everyone can find good and bad things about each type of cartridges (NEW vs. OLD ... MM vs. MC ... you name it).

Personally i would never buy even $2k cartridge for myself anymore, but for some people even $9k is not a problem. There is no universal rules, we can only mention some facts and share our personal experience, but we may have completely different point of views. This is like TUBE vs. SOLID STATE ... or DIGITAL vs. ANALOG ...

My point of view: It is better to buy 3-5 different top vintage MM or a few decent vintage MC than just to buy one $5k modern cartridge. But anyway, this is just my philosophy regarding cartridges.

Amen, actually i explained why i think so, but you explained nothing.
Is it good or bad that i have the answers ? I have the answers at least for myself

I owned a few brand new modern LOMC cartridges up to $3-5k each, i was effected by reviews and thought that modern high-end must be definitely better, if you’re happy with stuff like that i have no problem about it, but just do not try to say that everything modern is better or more convenient, just because it’s in the shops with warranty and reviewed by critics. I remember someone said he can’t even audition most of those new expensive carts at the dealers, but i knew that Miyajima dealer in US offered trial for his customers.  

Serious tube lovers still using NOS tubes from the 50’s in 21st century, Altec speakers and other vintage audio stuff like that. You know what i mean. This is not because they can’t afford modern audio gear, this is because of the sound preferences. If we should have follow the trends then we’re all must listen to digital only and all that funny looking equipment that everyone can watch after some big audioshow at M.Fremer’s youtube channel with his shaking camera and sometimes awful sound.

I’ve seen the dealers like OMA and their passion and inspiration is vintage audio gear, here is the video. It is funny but even the best new tubes are just replicas of the design from the 30th (Like those new Emission Lab 45s etc). Same about many speaker drivers etc, look at the Kondo, Tannoy, OMA ... 

Vintage audio gear can be outstanding (including cartridges).

Pass experimental platform is First Watt and those amp for many years have been handmade by him only in very small quantities (100 units each). Then he start making more units of each. But each amp is unique in its design, each one is different. As he said in the interview they are tested and voiced on Tannoy. I adore his design, because i'm using crossoverless Zu Druid speakers (Nelson also own Zu and like them). But he made several FW amps not only for high efficient speakers. Anyway First Watt is like laboratory for unique design from the genius. People collect different First Watt amps. After an audition of First Watt amps no one can say anything bad about Solid State versus Tubes. Actually i think First Watt is superior to tube amps, but my experience with tube amps is limited. The price for any First Watt (except maybe SIT monoblocks) is so affordable, it's a clean winner. Highly recommended.   

In my opinion a highly valuable vintage gear is Cartridges, Reel to Reel machines, DD Turntables, Speakers, NOS tubes. 

P.S. Nelson has mentioned some extremely rare transistors made by Sony back in the day.    

Each First Watt amp is different, each amp has unique design, Nelson made 15 different models with absolutely unique topology for each of them ! They are entirely different from each other, they are not the same. 90-92db speakers are NOT high efficient at all, the high efficient speakers is 95db and higher. I’m using current source F2J with 101db speakers - this is a high efficient speaker (without crossover). And this amp, for example, designed ONLY for the full range speakers without crossover.

Anyway, when anyone is here to criticize FW amps at least add the exact model of the amp you owned (and speakers), there are 15 completely different models of First Watt amps on the market today. If some of you tried one FW model and does not like it for some reason it means nothing, because the next model is entirely different from the previous model. This is why people collect different FW amps and willing to try them all to find what they really like with certain speakers. These amps can blow your bind with the right preamp and speakers and they are always reasonably priced, maybe the price tag is too low for posh people, but i am happy about the prices for First Watt on used market, amazing value! And these amps does not made to impress by the way it looks, only by the sound quality!

Regarding the cost: First Watt SIT-1 mono blocks are very expensive compared to any other FW amps anyone can get for $1500-3000 used. But the majority of the classic FW models made ONLY in 100 quantities (assembled 100% by Nelson Pass himself), so they are very hard to find. While the stuff from PASS LABS brand is commercial product, many thousands made by the manufacturer.

sorry for the off topic

In my opinion people with all these huge power amps and 3-4 way speakers with active crossovers will never understand sound preferences of the opposite "school" of low power amps and super efficient full range drivers without crossovers. And vice versa!

No matter which brand btw. This is one of the reason the cartridge preferences will be different for these different group of people with completely different preferences in sound. Nothing wrong about it. 

The system with just  2 watts Yamamoto A-8s handmade SET amp (or low power solid state First Watt amp) with high efficient speakers can be much better than all these huge low efficient speakers with many drivers and those huge superpower overpriced 500w monoblocks. 

Low power amps and high efficient speakers in a moderate or small well treated room is all we need, especially if the budget is not unlimited. 

Beside the main system with ZU Druid i was very impressed even by a very small vintage professional Tannoy studio monitors from the 80's which i bought last summer. So i can understand the sound preferences of the Tannoy fans. I can only imagine how their bigger speakers sounds like. 

@lewm 

I strongly doubt that "many thousands" of the very expensive higher power Pass amplifiers are sold, if you're speaking of a single model. If you take total production over the last years, maybe. Otherwise, I agree.

You can watch interview with Nelson Pass on youtube, he explain the difference between Pass Lab and First Watt concept. Also here about very special impossible to find transistors he's using exclusively like Static Induction Transistors (SIT). You will see rare Sony VFET, Toshiba JFET etc in his collection.

Even latest FW sells in many thousands units today via distributors. Not so long ago First Watt was available only direct from Nelson in California. The demand for his gear is much higher, almost cult status for the owners of high efficient speakers like my Zu Audio Druid and others, i use Pass Lab Aleph passive/active preamp and FW F2J power amp which is one of a few current source amp on the market in Nelson Pass opinion today.   


@johnss 

Have the art 9, think its great, but have tried to upstage it with more expensive MC carts, but have not done so. Pretty hard to beat it unless you step up the 1000, but even then, it does not blow away the art 9. Forget LOMC carts from some of the holly grail brands (no names) the art 9 is considerably better, better tracking, better detail, more musical, better imaging....

It must be a very nice cartridge like many Audio-Technica high-tech cartridges, but when it comes to a different and more organic flavor some other cartridge can be even better, no doubt. Ever heard the Miyajima (cross-ring) MC ?  


 

@johnss i wish i could find all my records on reel to reel, but it's simply impossible because most of them are rare, and my taste is not what a typical audiophile reissue label can offer, completely different i would say. Knowing the fact that a tape is always better it is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to a choice of music on tapes available today in comparison with tons of vintage vinyl available today. This is the reason i am with vinyl, not with tapes. 

P.S. For some reason industry professionals claimed the MM sound closer to the mastertape than MC, here is the article i posted million times.