@slaw Does your post imply lpgear is selling non-authentic cartridges? My point was just about the styli they are selling for an old discontinued vintage AT Moving Magnet cartridges from the 70's, such as AT20SLa, those styli does not have a gold AT logo on it, they does not have a dished numbers on it, so i have no idea what they are selling and why should i trust them, but as a collector of the original vintage AT cartridges i know for sure that original styli looks different and they are all have an ID of genuine AT products such as LOGO and NUMBER. Audio-Technica cartridges i have own (or owned) are not from Europe and USA, they are from the region of manufacturing and they are genuine, at the same time they are different from LP Gear stuff. This is all i’m trying to say, each one can make their own conclusion. This is a closeup picture of my original stylus. |
Dear @lewm : Yes, the Etna is more expensive than 5K but I linked to the OP a very good offer for it.
R. |
Chak
I would have said the art7 was a worthy alternative to the art9.
The 20Sla not so much...... |
Just to correct myself: I wrote that the output of the ART7 is 0.24mV. After I posted, some others mentioned the output at 0.12mV. Those persons are correct; the output is 0.12mV, not 0.24mV. Sorry about that. However, for what it's worth, I run mine through the MC inputs of a Manley Steelhead, using the 65db gain setting. The linestage of the Steelhead adds no additional gain, so 65db is all there is, and I have enough output to drive my Beveridge amplifiers as loud as I might ever want, or louder. For comparison, my Ortofon MC2000 with a stated output of .05mV cannot cut the mustard in this same system; the gain is inadequate. (I would need a SUT into the MM inputs.) Results depend not only upon phono and linestage gain but also upon the input sensitivity of the amplifier and the efficiency of the speakers. For each of us, the gain requirement at the input phono stage end can be quite different when you crank in those other factors.
Raul, isn't the Lyra Etna a very expensive cartridge, well above $5K? I'm sure it's quite good.
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Dear @uberwaltz : @slaw : obviously that the ART 7 in LPGear is original. Now this cartridge was out of production by more than two years but seems to me that AT is manufacturing it again or are samples from their last production:
https://www.audio-technica.com/cgi-bin/product_search/cartridges/cartridges.pl?lang=eng
Of course that has the AT whole warranty and you can try it. However for the @OP I think that Lyra Etna is extremely hard to beat and can't go wrong with. R. |
I did upgrade from ART9. I was not after a $5k cartridge to replace the ART9. I explored reasonably priced cartridges. The only ones I found I really liked after the ART9 are EMT TSD-75/HSD-006, Anamighty Sound Denon 103 Level 3 and Decca Jubilee (more expensive than my planned budget). I currently use EMT HSD-006. Natural, neutral and dynamic. Very happy!
I know you would want to know the difference bettween ART9 and EMT. EMT is more effortless and flatter frequency response. It plumbs deeper into lows and the midrange is classic vinyl like, full and clear. ART9 sounded smaller and thinner than EMT. It has a more modern sounding midrange (a bit more CD like than EMT). Another area the EMT is remarkable is "quietness". The background is very quiet with EMT playing. Probably that gives the additional headroom to the sound. |
Chak
Those pictures were of the 20Sla, not the art7 which we were discussing?
What is the relevance? Good point, but we’re discussing ART-9 in general and alternatives, not the ART-7 as you may think, LOL BTW i think the great alternative for the OP if he’s looking for something completely different can be Miyajima Kansui or Madake (with $2k-5k it is possible) |
0.12mv is indeed way too low for just 60db gain.
My Chinook has the same max gain and I went with a Denon SUT to boost signal on my 0.24mv cart.
This worked very well so I would think the art7 would work equally well as with the SUT I still did not have to use much actual amp volume to get very decent sq levels.
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Slaw
Thank you
It does indeed look like LPGear does carry the ART7 still.
I think I must ditch Yahoo as a search engine, it is getting worse!
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Chak
Those pictures were of the 20Sla, not the art7 which we were discussing?
What is the relevance?
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@chakster
Does your post imply lpgear is selling non-authentic cartridges? |
@slaw With the only difference that LPGear’s stylus as always was blank without Audio-Technica logo and without stamped model number on it. Looks different compared to the original. This is for example the original and cartridge body. |
@uberwaltz, Not sure if they’re still available but www.lpgear.com was the source. |
@lewm
Where would one even buy an art7 from?
The only ones I have seen for sale of late are all in Japan.
Btw I also have an at 20sla that I alternate in between my Nagoaka and Scheu carts and for the age and cost it is still a very impressive all rounder. |
Thank you everyone. You echoed my instincts. My replacement could be another 9 or 7. But Raul is very knowledgeable so I will research his recommendations.
I have a Manley Chinook phono stage btw. |
The law of diminishing returns may be more operative in the realm of cartridges than other parts of the signal chain. I think this may be particularly true with the ART 9, which I owned for a time and thoroughly enjoyed. I ended up replacing the ART 9 with a cartridge that retails for twice the price--the Soundsmith MIMC Star. Is the MIMC Star twice as good? Of course not. Is it "better" than the ART 9? In my system it proved to be an ever so slightly better match. The ART 9 sounded a bit lighter and ever so slightly more refined but the MIMC Star threw a wider stage and had a more visceral, meaty, dynamic sound. System matching and setup is obviously crucial. The ART 9 is a somewhat high compliance design compared to others so that may be something to explore when considering an "upgrade". I'd also suggest investing time and energy in making sure you have set up the ART 9 optimally before moving on--the line contact stylus demands careful attention. If the ART 9 is a good match for your arm and is set up correctly I think you could very easily spend a lot more money and end up in the same place--maybe a bit different sound but not necessarily better across the board. The ART 9 is really that good. |
jbhiller-
A little over a year ago,I replaced my 9 with a Kiseki Blue. It was a rare opportunity to get it for a very good price. It's a $2500 retail cart..They are going for about $2K on sale.
While it has subtle refinement over the 9,
Its difficult to justify 2x the cost, at least in my system. I think using a cart that approaches half the retail of my table or phonostage is my gauge for max.
I'm assuming you have the best phonostage for your budget?
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The AT ART7 gets very little mention here and elsewhere. I own one and I like it very much. I have never heard an ART9, so I am not able to say that the 7 is better or worse, but it is hard to beat the ART7 even with very much more expensive LOMC cartridges (Koetsu, ZYX, and Ortofon at my house). That’s the thing about the ART7; it has a low output of 0.24mV, so you need a high gain phono or a SUT into an MM phono. The ART9 is less fussy because more gain. If we’re judging cartridges based on how they are made, which I am loathe to do, the 7 may be superior to the 9 in that it uses an amorphous core coil structure, whereas the 9 is conventional. Strangely, the 7 is a bit less expensive than the 9. Strange because the amorphous core would add cost. Further, the low output suggests that the 7 may have lower moving mass than the 9. That's difficult to say for sure because of the factor of the amorphous core used in its coil, which might also reduce generator output.
By the way, isn't the AT20SLa a non-select version of the AT20SS? In other words, the 20SS ought on principle to outperform the 20SLa. But if you crank in the age of these cartridges and the differing histories of previous use and users, all bets like that are off.
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@slimpikins5 If you like Whest so much you can easily find what he’s using on his instagram. The world of amazing Audio-Technica MM cartridges is a bit wider than AT20ss and AT20 series in general, as you know my personal favorite is AT-ML180 OCC from the 80’s, but the AT20SLa from the 70’s was also great in my system. Well, even AT-ML150 OCC can beat anything under $700. Comparing the best AT LOMC to the best AT vintage MM is great experience, highly recommended, my preference in this aspect quickly became an MM (nothing to lose in comparison with AT LOMC, but replaceable stylus is a benefit compared to re-tip). In my opinion any good phono stage must handle a wide range of cartridges, the problematic area is only extremely low output LOMC like Ortofon MC2000, very few phono stage can handle it (and very few SUTs too). This is the only 1 cartridge out of 20-30 i have tried, that is a problematic with most of the phono stages. Anything else with 0,15 mV and higher never caused any problems with various phono stages. |
You may find this interesting: James at Whest Audio preamps in London seems to suggest the use of the ART 9 to many people; it's one of his go to cartridges. That includes the guys who are using his very high end Titan Pro or PS.40 RDT SE phono stages. These are two of the best phono preamps made on the market. With such resolving electronics, he likes to suggest the ART 9. He also uses the Ortofon Anna or the A95.
His favorite MM is the Audio Technica AT20ss, which is what I use. When I asked him about the preference between the AT20ss and the top of the line MC cartridges, he told me his preference leans towards the MC side as it expands the sound stage out and brings out a little more of the instruments. However if one is looking for pure 'horsepower', great dynamic range, very strong low end up to the 800 hz. range and still presents very excellent sound stage/imaging, the AT 20ss is hard to top.
But keep in mind, the AT 20ss is a mid 70's vintage cartridge, its not easy to find and there are no NOS stylus' available. So the ART 9 may be a good place to be.
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In my own experience moving from limited edition $700 AT ART-2000 to another $3-4000 cartridge wan NOT positive and does not improved the sound as much as i expected according to the price i paid.
Higher price does not guarantee the improvement and satisfaction.
I think $700-1500 is enough money for amazing cartridge for your particular arm, especially if you are not afraid to buy vintage stuff and do not believe that MC is always better than MM/MI.
And yes, personal experience is the most important to find what you like in your system. |
jb, what do you have for a phono stage and turntable?
Mike |
Your “through the roof” expectation bias alone might be enough to make you happy with almost any cartridge that you pay from $2000-$5000 for. On the other hand, you might find that a particular cartridge in that price range is not as good as the art9, if you are able to be honest with yourself. It’s a crapshoot, since ultimately you are the only one who can make the judgment.
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You should ask our man @pani |
