Regarding two aftermarket power cables: "These differences in the shapes of the musical waveforms are far too small to see or measure with even the most sophisticated technology, yet we as listeners not only routinely discriminate such differences, we sometimes find musical meaning in these differences."
Nonsense. Just because people claim to "routinely discriminate" differences doesn't mean it's true or they're right. Apparently many have witnessed UFOs but that doesn't mean they actually saw extraterrestrial visitors, does it? Some have seen/heard a deity speaking to them "routinely"; does that imply that they are surely communing with an unseen/unmeasurable spiritual force(s)? Can we not put a little more effort into confirmatory reality-testing first when "the most sophisticated technology" can find nothing in 2020? (Of course, speaker cables can measure differently as per here, here, even if not necessarily audible in many cases by the time we connect amp to speaker.)
I'll take that as a complement "we love him so", back at ya.. But the guy was full of "hooey" none the less or maybe it's "suey", I may have gotten my PIG calls mixed up.. It has been a while since I took care of pigs. Still full of it. The Emotiva system pretty much did it for me though.. MidFi at best. They always sound like they are under water to me. Putting a 600.00 cable with a 3" jumper is NOT the way to test things..
He did prove how to make a really, really bad cable though..
Not one thing about how his spliced cable sounded. What the heck.. who cares RIGHT? It measured the same.. LOL HO HO HO.
Like comparing a 1968 Pantera with a 1968 Ford Pickup.. I had both... Both had 4 wheel, both had 351 Cleveland blocks (Ford V8), that's it... NO THEY DIDN'T SOUND THE SAME... :-)
What’s funny is these people will be the first to put down or attempt to discredit scientists and engineers who have done the work, --unless-- what those scientists and engineers say agrees with what they already believe.
It’s a valid point. I know you weren’t addressing my post, but I think my point as complementary. Sometimes science knows what to measure for and sometimes the discovery comes outside of science (such as the chemist who was also a cook and wanted to know where the umami flavor came from) and then science gains new parameters to what to look for. When science is successful, we gain a new level of descriptive power and the ability to manipulate the factors involved.
People who get up in arms against science are sometimes at odds with scientism and not science. Scientism is the belief that science tells us all we need to know about the world and that its way of describing and analyzing it is all one needs. That’s clearly not true, but it doesn’t invalidate the many ways science as a tool is powerful and complementary to the things we are interested in.
The list of things that have been asserted here at the 'gon that do not matter / performance cannot be measured consequently cannot improve a system:
1) Speakers 2) Amplifiers 3) Pre-amps 4) Cables 5) Transports 6) DACs 7) Servers / Renderers 8) Isolation 9) Tweaks (that list is long and deep) 10) Carts over $XX price point
I am sure I am missing some. Those who fall into these camps should all get together and start "Shibboleth Audio", where "You Can't Tell the Difference".
Regarding two aftermarket power cables: "These differences in the shapes of the musical waveforms are far too small to see or measure with even the most sophisticated technology, yet we as listeners not only routinely discriminate such differences, we sometimes find musical meaning in these differences."
There are two type of people who make these statements:
1) Those who try to equate the relatively simple two dimensional aspect of signal transmission (time and amplitude) with either vastly more complex things like sound fields, or with completely unrelated things.
2) People who don’t have a good handle on electricity, electronics, physics, math, or related as well as no concept about what we can measure and to what precision. They probably also discount every experiment that pokes a hole in their magical view of human perception too.
3) Marketers.
We no doubt will find out new things about the physical properties of material and electrical conduction, but we can already measure the results (i.e. the actual conduction) to precision well beyond human perception.
What's funny is these people will be the first to put down or attempt to discredit scientists and engineers who have done the work, --unless-- what those scientists and engineers say agrees with what they already believe.
I see no trolling. I see one reviewers debatable opinion of another. An excellent analysis by hilde45. Patented insults from MC in lieu of any rational response which he is incapable of (clown scribe.) And the usual blabbering from oldhvymec (even though we love him so...) Wait. I guess csmgolf IS the troll.
Wow what a load of, "let's start an argument". Cables make a difference it's as simple as that.. Break in, (not burn in) makes a lot of difference.
I've seen some sloppy testing, but this guy takes the cake... 3" cheater wire. 6 hours of break in,, laying on the floor from his Emotiva. Then shows us a graph. BUT the volume wasn't the same the, bla .bla .bla.
What was the question? That's right there wasn't one. It is just a slam from a person using cheap equipment, that even lamp cord, could have produced the same results..
I've seen the weave from more than one manufacture. The function is for RFI, EFI more than anything.. The construct makes a big difference too.
Apples Oranges.. Let me see if I can hear a difference on my 60 year old radio shack receiver, to my 70 year old Sears speakers.. Give me those Kimbers, It's gonna sound like a brand new Mac set up...
When I grew up, there were four tastes -- sweet, salty, sour, and bitter. Now there is a fifth, umami. Umami was identified, chemically, in 1908 but not understood by biology until the first taste receptors specific to umami were discovered in 2000. Were people tasting umami before their chemical or biological explanations were specified? Surely. Were there folk terms for something science had yet to measure or explain? Sure. "Savory" was one word. It seems reasonable to think that this happens in audio.
At the same time, people who go looking for a sensation -- for whatever reason -- might be able to convince themselves it's there. So, in the end, science settles nothing. We have to listen carefully for ourselves and find ways to test ourselves. And we have to decide whether or not to trust other's testimony that they hear a difference.
Regarding two aftermarket power cables: "These differences in the shapes of the musical waveforms are far too small to see or measure with even the most sophisticated technology, yet we as listeners not only routinely discriminate such differences, we sometimes find musical meaning in these differences."
Thus demonstrating why Robert Harley, author of The Complete Guide to High End Audio is a legendary and respected high end audio reviewer.
Nonsense.
Thus demonstrating why fuzztone is of no consequence, and probably never will be.
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