Harbeth 30.1 ? The Ultimate Speaker under $5K ?

yep...on it . thanks 

ozzy62  I can't believe more of you "seasoned" audiophile aren't calling out the OPs very questionable room instead of randomly suggesting speakers.

I am not sure I am a seasoned audiophile though I have been listening for 50 years; might have even heard some of you guys play.

But to the point, TREAT THE ROOM. Those wood floors are going to be reflecting all over the place. Also will need bass traps to zero in the bass.
Not sure what the pitched ceiling will be doing.

I made my own bass traps and treble absorption panels. If you can handle a screw driver and staple gun you can make your own for not much money. Home Depot will cut wood to your frame specs so you do not have to worry about those drummer's hands getting too close to a saw!

Thanks for listening,

Dsper.

Tommy!!! I tried to tell you here https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=106099 to get those used JM Lab (aka Focal) Utopia speakers!  Now I own them, and am enjoying every minute!

Just ignore kosst. Enjoy ! MrD.

kosst_amojan ......care to explain your experience? Poorly built based on______?  

Trolls gonna troll.

@D2GIRLS

that's what they say, but I also read reviews where people send them back. So you really need to hear them for yourself.  Personally I think they look ugly.  

@tommypenngotti  That's fantastic. Great to hear you are satisfied with your choice. Keep us posted on how your EQ/Sound treatment efforts pan out.

Ok , so the Tekton DI SE's showed up flawless ....not a scratch to be found. The cabinets are beautiful (although quite large) they suit me perfectly (big speaker , big sound) Hooked them up to my Marantz PM-11S1 and then my Sony STR-V7 . They are amazing . The first thing I noticed was the sound field and clarity was just unreal . The lows were very powerful and I really don’t think I need a sub. It honestly at times felt like Van Halen was in my living room . I’m still experimenting with EQ/ Sound treatment etc....so far pretty darn happy , thanks for all your guys help!

If you'd took the guy (me) with the Quad 57s advice (DI, 8-2-18), you'd have saved all that bother! Hope they work out.

Seems like any horn will sound way too bright in your environment.
Spend some $$ improving the acoustics otherwise satisfaction not
guaranteed!!

Listen to them.  Gene will loan you a pair so that you can audition them in your room
.  As big as it is and with your stated preferences,  you'll probably need your sub.  Just don't cross it over to high.

Ryder - 
I felt the same when I auditioned the SHL5! Definitely need to add subs, good clarity , better for mellow stuff (which I listen to) but overall just not enough for the money...

Might not need subs with the Tekton DI, although he does have one. Many Tekton DI users, based on my readings, do not use subs. It has been my experience that a pair of subs, in most rooms, benefit greatly over a single sub, and in much larger rooms , 4 or more subs are ideal. Enjoy ! MrD.

@ryder  

The OP already purchased the ultimate speaker.

If you like kick drums, forget about the M30.1. It’s the worst among the Harbeth range when it comes to bass as it lacks the speed, slam and dynamics of the larger Harbeth models. In my mind the M30.1 is only good in vocals and mellow stuff. Below-average performance in other music genres.

As others have mentioned, the Compact 7E3 does a lot better than the M30.1 in the areas that you seek. The SHL5 Plus is the best bet if you like your kick drums clean and tight without losing the signature midrange (magic) of the Harbeth.

You can't fix that room without a major hassle and it might not even work and who knows your room might be magic, no one can know they are all different and even when planned out to the Nth degree can sound bad.   The best you can hope for is to find a compromise that works for you.  I have a big room and have had a ton of speakers in it and have been surprised by some and let down by others.  I think you should go with your instinct and get the Harbeth.  Try used and you won't get hurt if you don't like them to much.  Sell them and start the journey that will never end.  

I'd never really heard of Tekton but see the DI and other models are being compared to cost no object designs from the likes of Magico and Wilson  -  the value there seems to be off the charts. So, well done indeed!

I would think if you have enough power to drive them, and atleast a medium size room - the Magnepan 3.7i's would be hard to beat. MSRP is just a bit above your budget at circa $6k, but if you got a good deal you might be within range. The only caveat is that they are very ineffcient & need atleast 200 watts @8 ohms & plenty of current to bring out their best.

Good for you. I guess you found the ultimate speaker ;-)

Tommy, good for you ! Enjoy ! MrD.

I know , agreed ....I auditioned the Harbeth and felt it wasn't nearly enough for the price tag & size of my room...

.."We're gonna need a bigger boat! " 

Wow - at 125lbs that 4 way tower with it's polygon 7 tweeter array is about as far from the Harbeth m30.1 as it gets.
Hope you enjoy it, though it's hard to reconcile how anyone looking at a compact 2 way monitor would go for a high efficiency 11driver beast like the Tekton DI (not saying the latter isn't great, never heard one, just very different from where this discussion started).

So I decided to pull the trigger ....I stumbled across a great deal on some Tekton DI SE's ....I've officially dug my way into an audio asylum ...I love it ..I will post my feedback when they arrive , still have to arrange shipping. 

Thank you to all the members who provided valuable advice ! 

I am sure Tommy has vacated this thread, not just from the 2 of us, but others. I am sorry Tommy. Enjoy ! MrD.

@murphythecat

Interesting, in 2017 you bought unheard harbeth c7es3. was it because there was no dealer around? Did you really only heard the C7es3 model, yet go on and on talking about harbeth but only heard the C7es3 and rely on Youtube videos? My experience with c7es3 was that the treble was tiny bit edgy. is that why now you say that Harbeth are bright speakers?

You’re making assumptions based on my past threads here. I’ve heard other Harbs in person, including the SHl5+. I went to RMAF the last 2 years. Heard the 30.2s just last year and the 40.2s the year before. I live fairly close to a Harbeth dealer. As I stated earlier, the C7s were the only ones I’ve owned. I bought them unheard because my dealer didn’t have any set up for demo at the time, but they were the model within my budget. Earlier that week, I spoke with Gene Rubin (not my dealer) and he claimed the Harbeths are best, regardless of model; so being that I preferred the Harbeth aesthetic, I ignored the advice of my dealer and took the plunge on the C7s. I’d agree with you that they’re Harbeth’s least enjoyable (or the least pleasing tonal balance) speaker. I’d also agree that they have an edgy treble. However, it’s not so much the treble that bothers me when it comes to Harbeth, it’s a "house sound" I’ve heard in all my auditions -- a sort of cold, metallic-like overtone in the midrange/upper midrange. Since they use various tweeter types, I can only guess that it’s attributable to the Radial cones. I only mentioned YouTube because I found that sound character is even apparent through some video clips, such as those made by Cyrus Audio. I also found it was very apparent in HR’s binaural recording of the 30.2s. I didn’t expect it to be so through compressed YouTube audio, but it is. Please read over this paragraph again, so you don’t make any more false assumptions regarding my experience.

The Grahams I heard at the home of a guy who bought some Maggies from me. He had a large collection of speakers. I couldn’t understand why he wanted 1.7s when IMO, he had a wealth of far superior speakers, but that’s a conversation for another day. I’d agree that the Grahams don’t throw as large a soundstage, if that’s what you meant by "distribution." I already mentioned earlier that Harbeths throw a larger soundstage. They are better in creating a sort of "wall-of-sound" experience. I personally don’t care for that type of presentation. In fact, it reminded me of the Maggies, in that they created an expansive soundstage but at some expense of resolution.

I find it odd that I’m being the one accused of having an agenda, yet you are the one who is claiming a single brand (Harbeth) is the all-around superior BBC-lineage brand. I have my favorites so far, but if Harbeth ever comes out with a speaker that knocks my socks off, I won’t hesitate to buy it (assuming I can afford it of course).

That’s all I have to say on the matter, we’ve hijacked this thread enough already. I hope the OP will audition many brands and decide for himself, which is what I initially suggested.

Tommy, I would like to truly apologize to you, as, some of my content does not make this thread a sharing and learning experience for you. This is what the "Gon should be about. Enjoy ! MrD. 

Helomech,
so having two speakers in the same room, level matched, and taking many sessions with both speakers have been proven to be wrong? right

Interesting, in 2017 you bought unheard harbeth c7es3. was it because there was no dealer around? Did you really only heard the C7es3 model, yet go on and on talking about harbeth but only heard the C7es3 and rely on Youtube videos? My experience with c7es3 was that the treble was tiny bit edgy. is that why now you say that Harbeth are bright speakers?

Where did you actually heard the Graham, they have very weak distribution. I begin to doubt the honesty of your posts

@d2girls

I’ll be happy to report on my findings of the 30.2 once I get them, if ever... I’m more qualified as to what constitutes as ’natural’ sound more then any of you, by the way.

Not all all of us here are complete music luddites. As a drummer, I hang a lot around real musicians. Some of their talent may rub off one day. One can but hope ;-)

@d2girls

troll
trōl/
noun
a mythical, cave-dwelling being depicted in folklore as either a giant or a dwarf, typically having a very ugly appearance.

Well, I’m no Brad Pit doppelganger but no, not a troll. As I mentioned earlier, I’m not going to quit sharing my honest assessment out of concern for the sensitivities of others here. So you’re a millennial and bought 30.2s? Being that you’re young and probably haven’t suffered much hearing loss yet, do try to audition Stirling Broadcast SB-88s or Graham LS5/9s. Like yourself, I’m a relatively young guy around these parts, and I find these speakers sound far more natural. They have a warmer balance without any loss in detail (more detail in fact).

Harbeth mid range uses a soft cone material that is inert. Some form of polypropylene that remains soft and stable. Similar to ATC which use a doped fabric both drivers are intrinsically damped. I believe this is the trick to audibly superior mid range - others are chasing highly rigid materials for cones and these all have a characteristic resonances that are imparted on top of the music. An intrinsically damped cone has blacker blacks to use a visual analogy. This is why Harbeth mid range sounds so clean.

FWIW - the other BBC designs with the harder polypropylene material a la Rogers etc. can not compare to Harbeth. The harder polypropylene cones used in most other BBC knock offs imparts a nasal character to the mid range.

How on earth did you come to this conclusion? It couldn't be any further from reality. Harbeth by far uses the hardest polypropylene. It's obvious by simply tapping on them. The surface-doped cones of Stirling, and Spendor's EP77, and the clear cones of Graham and Spendor's EP38 are much softer to the touch. It's easy to understand how they're considered intrinsically damped - not at all like the Harbeth Radial material. 

as for believing my own experience, i do. first, i believe in good procedure when testing and comparing gear: level matched AB testin: any other test have been proven to be very susceptible to bias. then using a well treated room, with the same electronics.
you clearly never did such extensive pre requisite or even went close to this to compare the graham ls59 and harbeth shl5plus. you never even heard both in the same room. yet, you go around multiple forums claiming youve heard them all bbc speaker companies and that harbeth is the worst of the bunch.

I really don't need to do such tests. They've been proven to be unreliable anyway, as has been discussed to death in SHF. I claim they're the least good of the bunch, because to my ears, they don't even belong in the same conversation. Their sound doesn't justify the price. An example: the $1350 Vandersteen 1Cis blow the C7s away in almost every regard. The SHL5s have good clarity but they do nothing significantly better than many $2k speakers. Their resolution is lacking and they struggle to do the disappearing act. Harbeths as a whole are slightly warmer than many brands but are much brighter than all other BBC derivatives. One doesn't even have to listen to them in person, let alone the same room, level-matched with the same gear to hear it. It's a glaring difference that's obvious even in YouTube clips. I suppose I can understand the "warmth" claim if it's coming from an old timer, assuming that person has considerable high-frequency hearing loss.

Once again, I'm not a Harbeth hater as you claim. I simply believe they offer the lowest value proposition out of the BBC family. Again, I really wanted to prefer them, as they have the best aesthetics by far. Unfortunately, their sonics just don't compete. And next time a thread like this pops up, I will certainly chime in with my opinion, especially now that I know how much it gets your goat. Bye Bye now.

LANCELOCK:
yikes $6500 is getting a bit high for me....what are the differences? thanks!

Tommy,  If you try out the Tektons go straight to the Tekton Double Impact SE. I traded up from the DI and am very happy.

Any opinion on the bigger PMC pro/home speakers? In a year or so the used price for a passive IB2i may come down to something within the budget of the OP. 

@helomech, ive had lots of studio monitors such as focal cms50, amphion one18. i also use a pair of genelec 1037b for my living room and a pair of atc scm7v3 for the bedroom.

flat measurements is a good first step to good sq but far from the only criteria.

as for believing my own experience, i do. first, i believe in good procedure when testing and comparing gear: level matched AB testin: any other test have been proven to be very susceptible to bias. then using a well treated room, with the same electronics.
you clearly never did such extensive pre requisite or even went close to this to compare the graham ls59 and harbeth shl5plus. you never even heard both in the same room. yet, you go around multiple forums claiming youve heard them all bbc speaker companies and that harbeth is the worst of the bunch.

d2girls, really ? I sure hope you are joking. You do not want to get me started, and embarrass you yet on another thread. Enjoy ! MrD.