Greatest Songwriter of all time

Kate Wolf, Folk Singer. She was a great-singer/writer. Also,
Alan Jay Lerner & Frederick Loewe, & Oscar Hammerstein II.

SPRINGSTEEN, Richard Thompson, Brian Wilson.

Music: Frank Zappa

Lyrics: Tonio K.

Lots of great choices so far, and I agree with some of them; but I guess we're not sticking to Rock. So, for something different I nominate Franz Schubert and Ernesto Lecuona.

PINK FLOYD they made some of THE best music IMHO. But i like more of the stuff after syd barrett left the band

Philefreak, How dare I over look Van the man Morrison. I agree 100%. Love the MAN VAN.

I second Van Morrison,also John Lennon,Joni Mitchell,Paul M.,Steve Winwood, and several others.

Listening to the new one titled "Used Songs" by Tom Waits, a compilation of songs from the early years, reminded me what a great songwriter he is, so I'll add him to my list.

Obviously, we're just talking about ourselves when we join in these "greatest" lists. For all we know some Calabrian peasant in the pre-electronic age was the "best" songwriter ever. As you said way up there somewhere, most of us are talking about the best (in our opinions) in our lifetimes.

But it is fun to celebrate the genius of those who have impressed or influenced us. We are about the same age, but I really had no appreciation of Buddy Holly until I was an adult. I knew about him primarily from the crash that also took the life of local hero Richie Valens, a minor singer-songwriter not in the same league at all. As a teenager, I heard the Stones doing "Not Fade Away," and that was a revelation, but it was only years later, after a lot of classical music exposure and listening to lots of singers that I really came to a full appreciation of Buddy Holly.

I thought it was a lot of fun when then-VP-candidate Lloyd Bentsen said he liked rock and roll. When the reporter asked him to name a rock and roll artist he liked, Senator Bentsen answered, Buddy Holly.

Paul,..guess I was eight, or so, when Mr. Holly's plane went down..being from Iowa, we all remember it like people in Madison, Wi. remember Otis and his plane going down in Lake Monona. Anyway, Buddy was one of the very few to have his impact great enough to have a group name themselves after him..ie: the Hollies. Wonder if Bobby Vee would have had a career without sounding like Mr. Holly?

Seems like Buddy Holly song's are so good that no matter who(m) does their cover....it still sounds good.

You guys have a good point, but, while I acknowledge the greatness of the composers listed by Rayhall, still Buddy Holly was the best composer since Bach, and the best songwriter ever.

Rayhall,.. could not agree more. My post further up had zip impact on people thinking beyond their own time. It is a bit too bad since most of the late 20th century writers that most above are speaking of..were greatly impacted by those that came before them.

Seems that most are in the 30 to 50 year old range...I guess this same thread a few years from now will bring answers like:

InSync
Madonna
Boyz To Men
Faith Hill
etc...

Duke Ellington
Jelly Roll Morton
Cole Porter
Scott Joplin
Irving Berlin
George Gershwin
Richard Rogers
Jerome Kern

The following guys were good, but in no way come up to the level of the previous songwriters:

Lennon & McCartney
Bob Dylan
Woody Guthrie

You know, we should all try to get out of our own era and geography a little bit. Nearly all of us have only picked from the twentieth century and most, only from a 30-40 year period within the twentieth century. What about foreign songwriters? What about music from other cultures? What about those from other centuries? Where do Bach, Beethoven and Mozart stand in this list? Remember, although we consider their music classical, it was the popular music of their time and 300-400 years later, we still listen to it. The name of the thread is greatest songwriter of all time, not greatest American songwriter from the last 20, 30, 40 or 50 years who wrote a couple of songs that I like a lot.

Teams
-Fagan/becker
-Rogers/Hammerstein
-Lennon/McCartney
-Davies/Hodgson
-Waters/Gilmore
Solos
-Brian Wilson
-Sting
-Frampton
-Brothers Gibb
-Maurice White
-Christopher Cross
-Stevie Nicks
-Peter Cetera
-Harry Nilson
-Don Henley
-Robbie Kroger

Oh ya..Hank of course I mean who hasn't done his songs? Cold cold heart has everybodies name on it.
Townsvanzant personal choice. Guy Clark is amazing the words are ...perfect?Three is not enough
Gram Parsons ,Leonard Cohen,Proffessor Longhair
I mean these guys wrote and could sing?Many more are out there ...these are in my head at the moment

Bencampbell, I agree. Onhwy61, what about the music of Blonde on blonde and Highway 61. Is this not some of rocks greatest and original tunes? Yea, a bit taken from here and there, but still some of rocks greatest and original tunes. No?
Forever an Onhwy61 fan.

Onhwy61-I cannot believe you are serious with that Dylan/tune argument but there's probably been enough Dylan discussion recently...the thread has deviated slightly we were given limited boundaries but on tunes how about Brian Wilson,Paddy McAloon (Prefab Sprout),Jimmy Webb, latter Fleetwood Mac (Nicks/C.McVie/Buckingham),Carole King etc..the list is nearly endless and on more obscure levels Nick Drake,Scott Walker,Todd Rundgren,Suzanne Vega,Rickie Lee Jones......so many......
Oh stuff it,,,Back to Dylan and tunes..Knockin'On Heaven's Door,Mr Tambourine Man,Every Grain Of Sand,Sugar Baby,Jokerman,One More Cup Of Coffee,Lay Lady Lay surely the greatest song ever written about a chicken,can't think of a single Dylan song without a tune.
In fact occassionally one tune would be so good he'd use on about 6 or 7 different songs.....

Allright! We are bringing in another world of music w/ the last few posts and far more representative of 20th century American music if you ask me. (Don't get me wrong, I love Greg Brown et al...) And Onhwy61 you get an award for mentioning Strayhorn w/ the Duke. He deserves it.

Sincerely, I remain

My nominations for the three best composers of popular songs are:
1. Antonio Carlos Jobim. (Chega de Saudade, Dindi, Samba de Uma Nota So, Insensatez, Desafinado, Corcovado, Favela, Agua de Beber, Vivo Sohando, Chovendo na Roseira, Aguas de Marco, Amor en Paz/Once I Loved, O Grande Amor, So Danco Samba, Doralice, Meditation, The Girl from Ipanema, etc.)
2. Duke Ellington
3. George Gershwin
After these three, there are many notables: Jerome Kern (All the Things You Are, Yesterdays, A Fine Romance, Dearly Beloved); Irving Berlin (Always, Isn't This a Lovely Day, Blue Skys, Cheek to Cheek); Richard Rogers (Blue Moon, Thou Swell, Bewitched); Cole Porter (Easy to Love, Just One of Those Things, What Is This Thing Called Love, Begin the Beguine); Burt Bacharach; Paul McCartney

It's always good to hear other peoples musical choices. You may not always agree, but that's not really the point. For instance, as much as I love Bob Dylan - just look at my name - I've never thought of him as a "song" writer. He's rock n' roll's greatest lyricist, but his name doesn't come to mind when I think of someone who wrote great tunes. Something with a melody. Go play the melody of one of his songs on an instrument and see.

My vote for the all-time #1 best songwriter in popular music is William "Smokey" Robinson. Honorable mentions to (in no particular order) Ray Davies, Monk, Willie Dixon, Gershwins, Robbie Robertson, Willie Nelson, Joni Mitchell, Ellington/Strayhorn, Robert Johnson, Rodgers/Hart, Chuck Berry, Kurt Weill, Carol King and the Beatles.

Clueless - They are just among my favorites, had to add a few of those.

Sincerely I remain,

Tubegroover

Tubegroover - I Second your nominations Tubegroover. I find it almost impossible to believe that with over 40 posts 2 mentions of Ellington and the Gershwins. And Hoagy too, don't forget he wrote Georgia too, and lots of other wonderful stuff. Stevie Wonder and Lou Reed??? I guess we have to disagree somewhere. Makes me want to look up their catalogue and double check

Well, it's the week-end, take a walk on the wildside.

Tubes Rule!

Sincerely, I remain

The greatest Songwriters are the ones that write the songs that everyone wishes they wrote or the great singers all want to sing. Favorites are another matter.

Dynamic duos
The Gershwin brothers
Rogers & Hart
Rogers & Hammerstein
Lennon & McCartney

Individual- Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Paul Simon, George M. Cohan (some may debate this but he wrote some memorable songs), Carole King, Stevie Wonder, Lou Reed, Hoagy Carmichael (just because he wrote Stardust) and THE DUKE

I'm in trouble I don't find Rufus Wainwright depressing at all.................................

Agree with Guy Clark being up there - but Cold Dog Soup didn't do it for me. I reckon Dublin Blues, Boats To Build and his live album Keepers are his best. But the "experts" argue his best song writing is on Old No. 1. Eric Taylor, Tom Russell and Townes are worth a mention each. How about Tim Hardin, Tom Waits, Nick Lowe....

most depressing band? easy. fred and patti smith. try "it takes time" from the sountrack of "until the end of the world." an excellent disc and better lp, BTW (gotta get the german lp). -cfb

Well it ain't a band, but my vote for most depressing singer ever has to go to Rufus Wainright son of Louden Wainright and of one of them McGarrigle girls. Whenever my 18 year old daughter plays one of his, I swear I want to listen to some Blind Lemon Jefferson.

I can't resist these parlor games. For the sake of simplicity, I've ruled out the twin tower tandems of Lennon/McCartney and Jagger/Richards.

Hard to narrow it down to three, so how about these groupings?


Songwriters:

All-time, men's division

Bob Dylan
Neil Young
John Fogerty

All time, women's division

Joni Mitchell
Lucinda Williams
Iris Dement

"Alternative"

Elvis Costello
Marshall Crenshaw
PJ Harvey

"Obscure"

Walter Salas-Humara
Freedy Johnston
Liz Phair

"Cult Heroes"

Townes Van Zandt
Gram Parsons
Alex Chilton

Best Singers

Billie Holiday
Al Green
George Jones

Best Guitar

Richard Thompson

Best Growl

Iggy Pop

Best Hair

Flock of Seagulls

OK, somebody want to start a "most depressing bands" thread?

Cole Porter

Oh yeah! I forgot to mention 2 other best rock-poets:
David Byrne, Pete Sienfield.

cfb-Yes, I have "Poet" also, quite good. I know TVZ didn't write any of the songs on "Cold Dog", but I thought some of the songs GC wrote on it were about, and a tribute to, TVZ. I also recall an article ( S'phile?) about CDS about a year or so ago re same. But then again, the neurons aren't synapsing like they once used to. Age? Possibly. Posited smack dab in the midst of divorce? Naaahhh :-)

Dylan
Leonard Cohen
Lennon/McCatrney
David Byrne
Bob Marley

mes: thanks for your second on guy clark's "cold dog soup" but townes van zandt didn't write any of the songs on that cd. sure you're not thinkin' of "poet-a tribute to TVZ." guy's on that one, too. -cfb

Comsider the following:
Patti Smith - Horses
Leonard Cohen - Any and all of it
Richard Thompson - Shoot Out The Lights
John Hiatt - Bring The Family
Laurie Anderson
Lou Reed

Oh, you wanted 3? Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry and Bob Wills.

Elvis composed songs?

Warren Zevon
Van Morrison
Greg Brown
Arguably not the best, but my favorites.Agree with cfb, G. Clarks Cold Dog Soup is great and a nice tribute to the late, great Townes Van Zandt.

the fab 4 beatles, bernie taupin who writes for all elton john songs, and the king elvis.

I thought Dylan was excluded since he had his own thread and, obviously, his own special place in songwriting. So I have four. Put me down for Dylan. This is a fun party game, but, again, I find myself wondering why have such lists. Are music writing and music making a competitive sport? What is this American propensity towards having "Best of..." lists? Are artists like eggs and need to be graded? My reaction is to expand the list, forcing me to sudivide into categories, along the well known and worn lines of standards, folk, country, blues, rock etc. Is the best songwriter the most prolific? The one who year in year out produced the highest quality tunes? The one who produced the best selling tunes? The one who produced a body of work that so influenced others he/she can be put at the head of a list with a series of other people following? How about lyricists who partenered with different composers for the music? I may sound like someone who is no fun and is trying to intellectualize this thing to death, but, trust me, that is not my intention. I just think three choices is really confining and see that a number of posters go well beyond the limit of three. I therefore wish to add, in no particular order: Van Morrison, Lennon & McCartney, Willie Dixon, Chuck Berry, Ralph McTell, Bruce Springsteen, Hank Williams Sr, Georges Brassens, Jimmy Reed, Harold Arlen, Irving Berlin, Woody Guthrie and for being able to make them up on the spot, Sam "Lightin'" Hopkins.

pretty narrow bandwidth for the most part.

Sincerely, I remain

If this was a test question my answers would be:
1. Woody Gutherie 2. George M. Cohan 3. Hank Williams
but I haven't got a recording by any of them :^)

John Hiatt indeed. And Joe McDonald--holy cow....Bass Strings

Of course the list is long but Jeff's original question was three.... no mention so far of Pete Townshend,Bob Marley,Peter Gabriel,Kate Bush,Nick Drake,Ray Davies,Don Henley,Elton John,Woody Guthrie,Robert Johnson and good grief Stevie Wonder

Yeah Craig, Chuck Berry is up there too. I almost mentioned him above. VanZandt of course. Dylan, naturally. My living favorite who hasnt been mentioned is John Hiatt. Among the women, Iris Dement is one of a kind, but I would have to give my vote to Barbara Keith. On her eponymous lp ca 1972, she wrote all the songs but one, Dylan's All Along the Watchtower, which was the weakest song on the record.

For those who think we are stuck in the present, how about Stephen Foster, and Henry Clay Work, Civil War era. "Who Shall Rule This American Nation" is one of my all time favorites.

Paul

lot of people have been covered. possibly not THEE top three but worthy of mention...van morrison, harry chapin, dave mason, joe mcdonald

I was tearing my hair out over this one as I read the above posts, then I saw it. I agree with Paulwp. For me, it's gotta' be Buddy Holly. But I'd also add Chuck Berry, Leonard Cohen, and I really like much of Melissa Etheridge' lyrics and music. Also Townes Van Zandt, especially for his influence on Cowboy Junkies music. But Whatjd and Marakanetz have it right, IMO, there are only "favorites". Great thread Jeff. Craig

Irving Berlin. Wrote more good songs than the rest combined. (If they live to 101 also, they may catch up).

Dolly Parton should be on the list also. A lot of her songs have been performed by others and not her, so there are a lot more great songs out there than most of us realize.

john_l: for a great intro to guy clark, i'd suggest one of his latest, "cold dog soup." wonderful stuff.-cfb

Scott,..not Janis.

Love to read everybody's favorites. Janis ever write anything?--Hoggy's real claim is just Stardust.--Kris Kristopherson,& Willie as well as Hank Williams are right up there; with so many others doing their songs.--I think the mark of a great writer is having so many record their works.John & Paul sure fit this bill.--(even tho I like Georgie's tunes better--Just about all of them).As much as I love Zep & Floyd; You never hear anybody else doing their stuff.Lenard Cohen has a style I love;but as a writer? Jimmy Webb helped make Glen a bunch of bucks & vice versa. This can go on and on --Next up??