Great speaker sounds terrible in my room?


So today I took a ride to demo a set of speakers that has had my interest for quite some time, the Ref 3A Royal Virtuoso. These things are completely overbuilt, top notch parts and built like tombstones, the cabinets are made of Corian and are completely inert. They sounded excellent during the demo. The owner was running them with a beautiful VAC preamp / Pass labs amp and a Moon Dac-streamer. They were on 24” stands and approximately 2ft off the back wall. They sounded superb as expected…I pack em up, take em home. I rig them up…my setup is near field with the speakers 10ft off the front wall and the speakers are 5ft away from my listening position. I fire them up and….shocker. They got nothing. They literally were lost with Zero bass response. I actually thought maybe something was connected wrong…I checked the connections ( more on that in a minute) all good. These are higher efficiency (91db) than my ProAc Response D2’s (88db) yet the Ref 3A’s sounded much lower at my usual listening level. I’m still scratching my head over how this speaker is unable to kick ass. I have decent gear with plenty of firepower (ARC D400MKII amp, Levinson 380s Pre, Denafrips Terminator Dac, Aurender N100SC streamer. I’ve had Sonus Farber Concertino’s, Vienna Acoustics Haydn, KEF 150’s and my ProAcs all set up in the same manner and they all were excellent performers. The one thing that I’m wondering about is the Binding post on the Ref 3A…it uses the Cardas screw down clamp type post that only accepts spades or bare wire. my cables are banana terminated and I was using cheapo adapters. Could this all could be a connection related issue or just a speaker/room mismatch?

Thoughts / comments are much appreciated

 

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(Pinthrift girds his loins before posting this)

I've decided to risk the flac that will surely be coming, however, if it helps one music lover during these trying times, so be it.  

My studio is beneath our bedroom and my wife turns in early, during my "prime-time" late night listening.  Lately, my system has been sizzling, at optimal performance.  The better things get, the more I'm drawn to classical, choral and smaller jazz ensembles, often with large dynamic swings in the music, especially with classical.  After my wife is asleep, I can often get away with around 70 decibels.  This is still frustrating with softer classical passages, often losing my interest along the way.  

So, this has provided a nice solution, not perfect, but satisfactory for late night:  https://wwwearglasses.com

...do I feel silly with them on, sure!  Are they comfortable and do they work, sure!  Check the science page.  Yes, there is loss, but at age 75, for their purpose, gains override the loss.  Having the benefit of great electricity here, I still have all day for peak listening. 

Okay, having risked ALL credibility in this Forum now, wishing you More Peace.  Think Positive / Test Negative.  Use laser ruler for setup!  Pin

 

 

Try downloading a copy of REW (Room Equalization Wizard), select the Room Simulation tab and enter your room dimensions. You can then move speaker and listening positions in the resulting diagram (you can do more, e.g. change surface absorptions, but this is the basic capability) and see the simulated frequency response up to 200 Hz.

Very educational and a lot easier than actually rearranging the room...

Try downloading a copy of REW (Room Equalization Wizard), select the Room Simulation tab and enter your room dimensions. You can then move speaker and listening positions in the resulting diagram (you can do more, e.g. change surface absorptions, but this is the basic capability) and see the simulated frequency response up to 200 Hz.

Very educational and a lot easier than actually rearranging the room...

While I generally agree, in the case of the OP, they have few choices.

Secondly most speakers image better when the early reflection are more delayed.

I think going by ear is their best method for getting the speakers in a good place, but that will do nothing for bass if they do not couple to the wall.

So the only option remaining is a subwoofer, and at that point the REW makes sense.
With the difficulty in getting subs to play with music, and being a bit biased towards Vandys, I know what approaches I would be considering. The new ones are supposedly very good, and the older models will likely be appearing, and they are good too.

but I totally agree that a measurement is a more optimal way to convey the problem with the sound. And that the sketch the OP provided an improved way to convey the room constraints.

@pinthrift That site is at https://www.earglasses.com   Yes, Ear shape does change the sound, here for capturing more sound.   Interesting.  When I push my curved ears back, sound appears brighter and more detailed.  

@holmz  Great site, thanks.   Ain't the truth---“The sole objective of the audio industry as a whole is to sell products.”

 

@ ishkabibil The manufacturer stated that the best position (probably for bass) is 3 feet from the wall, not 7 or 10 feet.  Plus, did the demo pair have 1000s of hours on it and yours is new?  Woofers can take 500 hours to break-in.  I have a higher end system with a $150,000 custom built listening room where I avoid problems and enhance the sound (bass traps built-into walls with multi-panel activated charcoal filters).   Besides the point, which is the location of your speakers, your room layout which doesn't look good to me (rearrange it as suggested) and break-in allowance for the woofers.

Who has 10 feet to spare to set up speakers in this way? Not me...anyhow, I agree with previous posters/respondents, move the speakers closer to back wall. 


@fleschler as I had mentioned throughout this thread, my room isn’t dedicated and rearrangement is not an option. Speakers are not new. I’ve had several decent monitors in my rig and they all performed great with my ProAcs being exceptionally good. In hindsight I guess I expected the Ref 3A’s to dominate my room based upon their build quality and how good they sound during the demo. For whatever reasons my room just does not play nice in the sandbox with them. The saving grace has been my Rel T/9X. With the Rel, the presentation is quite nice and I have no complaints other than the mid bass having a tendency to be light (depending on the recording).

I appreciate everyone’s input on this thread. You guys have been very helpful, thanks for helping me figure this one out. 👍

@audioguy85 Common sense solution that is impractical in my situation. It’s all been delineated in this thread.

I had a room with perfect sound once. Then I moved.

Took all I learned from that room into the new one. I have good sound now. But not like that room. It was a near perfect listening room.

What made it so great? Without a doubt the acoustic ceiling. It was the early acoustic ceiling made from concrete. No asbestos. 

One side was mostly rock wall. So had to fill the other wall with many carvings and sculptures to mimic the other wall.

Anyway, will probably never see a room like that until I can find someone who does concrete spray ceilings. Brilliant. Hope they come back in style.

 

@baylinor , 1++🙂  Subs are opposed because it is so difficult under usual circumstances to get them set up right. It is very difficult by ear. Listen on a great set of Headphones and compare. Do it in Mono. Sit in the listening position and switch back and forth between the headphones and the speakers. Subs well integrated sound just like the headphones except your belly vibrates and when the right note comes along your house rattles. 

Poor placement = no bass don't want to change that? Then get a sub or deal with your choice of placement.