Congratulations @jaytor! Danny Richie is a master loudspeaker designer, and his products way over-perform their price points. Anyone wanting to learn how he engineers his designs can watch his GR Research Tech Talk Tuesday videos on You Tube. He REALLY knows what he is doing, and his speakers are extremely well designed. The thing is, good engineering doesn’t necessarily cost more than poor engineering, it just requires knowledge and wisdom, things you can’t put a price on. Watching his videos will make one a much more informed consumer. I built the GR Research/Rythmik OB/Dipole Sub as well, which is easy enough for most anyone. I installed the dual-woofer version into a W-frame flat pack a fellow GR Research DIYer gave me for the price of shipping, but also bought the H-frame flat pack that is available from the guy in Canada making them for Danny. With it’s dadoes and alignment dowels, it’s no harder to build than an Ikea bookcase or dresser. He builds them out of 1.5" thick MDF, and in combination with the Rythmik A370 plate amp and 12" servo-feedback woofers, they make the best bass reproduction I have ever heard---the cleanest, most taut, and articulate. No bloat, no fat---pure muscle. |
@bdp24 - Thanks. If you are interested in hearing them sometime, send me a PM. I live nearby in Portland.
It was Danny's Tuesday Tech Talk videos that got me interested in these. I had been seriously considering the Tekton Moabs, but after watching these videos, I was convinced that the open baffle NX-Oticas were the better choice for what I was looking for.
My background is electronics engineering and I took a few graduate level acoustics courses way back when. Everything Danny says jives with my understanding about speaker design. |
Check out his Line Force offering. It’s really impressive. |
@nrenter, I believe you mean Danny's line source offerings? He's a fan and proponent of that concept, and has offered many line source loudspeakers over the years. One of his GR Research Tech Talk Tuesday videos covers that subject in great detail. |
The Line Force is a new design Danny is working on that uses a line array of 16 NEO3 planar magnetic tweeters (the same one used in the NX-Otica) and six NEO10 planar magnetic mid-range drivers.
This speaker design is not yet available primarily because the NEO10 drivers are out of production. Danny is working on creating his own version of these drivers but isn't ready for production yet. |
Thanks @jaytor, I stand corrected. I can't keep up with Danny! |
Good that we are talking about whole speaker solutions.. :)
I am interested in the servo OB subs. Some day when I got my man cave.. |
These OB subs are unlike any other subs I have heard. If you've heard the bass from large magneplaners, you'll have some idea of what these sound like, but the GR Research OB subs go much deeper and perhaps with more energy than the large panels. The -3db point in my 17'x27' room is around 14Hz (with the rumble filter off) - not that there is much music that low anyway.
They are extremely impressive on acoustic instruments like double-bass and large drums. The sound is very deep and powerful without sounding boomy. They don't seem to pressurize the room like a typical sub, but still create a lot of bass energy. Sort of like the bass that is created when a big truck goes by.
A nice side effect of this type of bass is that it does not energize room modes as much - particularly side to side and floor to ceiling modes - so the bass is much smoother (you can achieve similar results by using 3, 4 or more separate closed-box subs at different locations in the room). Also, you can get a lot of bass energy in the room without the bass transferring through the walls to the rest of your house or your neighbors.
As I stated in my original post, the downside is that they have to be at least a few feet from the front wall (although they can be placed directly against the side wall - firing front and back). |
@jaytor
Yes I am lucky with the placement options in my upcoming man cave.
I plan to pair those bass with the RP-600m (Waiting for a complete set of point to point cross over kit for them)
As I understand it it is a fast distinct and more "truthful" than a 2nd order conventional bas reflex arrangement.
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I had the opportunity to visit Danny a couple weeks back and listen to the new line forces, which were made from a composite material compared to the originals that were made from aluminum (~200lbs), they were outstanding to say the least, it is hard to describe the realism that those speakers portray without actually hearing them, I had their sound in my head for 3 years!! The new version also have a far more expensive x-over network that is truly next level with his new copper capacitors. Danny mentioned that him and I were the only two people to have heard both versions and although the cost of entry is not for everyone, if your able to hear a pair it is something that you will not soon forget!! As for the open baffle subs, I've owned duals, triples and quads, basically the more you have, the fuller the overall bass realism gets and it really depends on the size of the room as to if you overload it or not, the beauty of the system is you can have more or less at the turn of a button.
Jaytor; great write up, bdp24; the guy in Canada is my partner Jay, quite possibly the most honest guy in audio, and you're right, Danny is a master speaker designer, as well as an all around great guy,
Cheers,
Don |
Man, I want to try this speaker/sub combo out sooooo bad. I emailed GR and told them about my smallish (11.5W x 14D x 8H) room and Danny's response was " Open baffle speakers like
the NX-Otica are more room friendly than a set of mini-monitors." and then followed with " Any open baffle speaker
must be pulled at least three feet or more out into the room." The latter answer makes me very nervous since that would put the speaker about 6' apart and about 7' from my chair making them nearly a spendy set of headphones.
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Don't quote me, but I believe that Jay's NX-Otica's played flat down to around 40 with a bit of PEQing in a room that is very similar size wise so it's really about what your willing to live with sub sonically, that said, a pair of OB subs really rounds out the sound.
Don |
@brewmasterdon - You and Jay do great work! I was really impressed with the quality of the flat packs and how easy they went together.
I'm watching Danny's development of the Line Force with some interest. My wife would not be happy if I built another speaker system any time soon, particularly at the cost these are likely to run, but maybe in a couple of years... In the meantime, the NX-Oticas are pretty spectacular and I'm sure are far from the weak link in my system.
@sunshdw - I think you could probably get away with placing the speakers a bit closer to the side walls, particularly with a little acoustic treatment, but distance from the front wall is more important. Keep in mind that this is the distance from the front baffle to the wall.
In my fairly large room (17' x 27' x 8'), the NX-Oticas by themselves were reaching down into the mid 40's Hz range. For a lot of music, this was just fine. I think in a smaller room, they'd reach even lower.
That said, I'd probably be looking at one of Danny's smaller designs for a room your size. Maybe the new Super Mini design (once Danny has the NEO10 drivers ready) mounted on a sub of some kind. Give Danny a call and discuss what you're looking for.
- Jay |
Thanks; I think guys would be shocked at how well the Super mini's image, I was!!, not to change direction, but we have already sent Danny the prototype bass section that includes 4-6.5inch drivers but he's simply been to busy to measure them, but that also maybe a good solution with the room capacity, both options have different strengths so it really depends on your end goal.
Don |
What are the sound different between the NX-OTICA and Super Mini since some use a woofer for the mid and Bass while the other uses planar? I'm debating either than NX-OTICA MTM or Super Image if it works in my room.
My room is not symmetrical. The left side mostly window with a fireplace on corner sticking out. On the right is an opening to the dinning room. Will open baffle works in this case?
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I haven’t listened to either these, but according to Danny Ritchie, the designer: The Super Mini is not available, is a little faster and more articulate.
The NX-Otica MTM is available, plays down lower, has more body and weight.
And they sound more alike than different. Danny is working on re-engineering the NEO10 (which is no longer available from the original manufacturer) which is the larger planer driver used in the Super Mini. |
To answer your second question, I haven’t personally tried my system in a room like this, but others have indicated that open baffle speakers, particular OB subs, have worked much better than traditional speakers in this kind of environment.
I suggest you post your questions in the AudioCircle GR Research forum. There are a lot of participants in that forum that have a lot of experience with Danny’s various designs. |
Magic44ken; If you can find some B&G Neo 10's i would strongly recommend the Super Mini's over the MTM Ottica's as, to my ears anyways they image quite a bit better due to the very narrow baffle, both benefit greatly from having a lower driver compliment however, we have sent the prototype to Danny for the lower section but believe it or not, he's been extremely busy lately and hasn't found the time to test them yet. Jaytor; How was your session last week?? Don |
Don - I had five people come over last weekend for a listening session. Everyone seemed to be very impressed with the sound from the NX-Oticas and subs. A couple of them commented that they had never heard bass that sounded so natural, and everyone commented how well the sound fills the room such that you can be well out of the sweet spot and still get decent imaging and great tonal balance. |
That's great to hear, your system looks fantastic, and for my money OB bass is very hard to beat, and they are so adjustable which people tend to overlook. Cheers, |
Hi Jay
I was one of those five people that was lucky enough to hear your Ottica's - I can without hesitation double down on everything Jay said about these speakers and will be building the Ottica's myself... I have already built the dual twelve OB subs from scratch and now have to figure out how to finish them, then on to the Ottica's.........Thanks again Jay for your hospitality your system is very impressive. Steve |
@sortner Hi Steve - I'm glad to hear you liked them enough to build your own set. It was fun to show them off to you and the rest of the group. Good luck with your project!
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Thanks Jaytor and brewmasterdon for the detail reply. I'm currently researching for a list of potential speakers to upgrade by the end of the year.
I'm for better image, so Super Mini definitely in my top 5 list. I'm hoping the bass module will be smaller than 15". Do you know if there will be 8"servo sub? I'm not looing for full range. More under 40Hz or so fine with me.
I just read Danny's reply to my questions in the AudioCircle forum. He confirm the minimum distance is from the front baffle to the front wall. In my living room I have a max length of 3 feet because i have an open right wall to the kitchen. So I hope the soundstage will siund decent.
May I ask what is the dimension for sub section that you submit to Danny? Will he offer an active version of the bass module?
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@magic44ken, there already are 8" Rythmik Servo subs, two models (F8 and FM8). They are listed and detailed on the company's website. |
@bdp24: Thanks for the sub suggestion. I will put it in my wishlist. Now I need to email Danny to see if anyone close to San Francisco, California for demo.
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Hi I am wondering how to connect the subs. My amp has one sub out but if the subs plays to 80hz then I need LR output
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The subwoofer amplifiers also have high-level inputs designed to connect directly to your main speaker outputs. So just run some speaker wire between your main speakers and the sub amps.
Since these wires will carry very little current, you can use relatively inexpensive, lightweight speaker cable. |
