finding something of equal(or close to) performance at less money is a good thing to admit depending on the circumstances.I was able to sell off both my pair of Indra at a good price,change cables and have money left over to upgrade my source component and even pocket a few bucks.
I think a 15k interconnect most likely had some discount associated to it's purchase.I know I didn't pay retail for my Stealths.
Hey if the guy likes them better he could change cables out and buy himself a BMW for x-mas
nothing wrong with that!!! |
I truly believe this 'Gon member is an upright person. He had plenty of apportunities to slander and tear down a certain manufacturer but didn't. Having talked to him on the phone I believe he will tell the truth concerning the two cables.
Bobf,
Good laugh on the Beemer.
I have a 3M biwire set of speaker cables that retail for $48,000.00. Most of the time they sound as if they are worth every penny.
Please send me your best SC's to demo so I can sell the cables and buy a new BMW/cables. |
I rarely criticize the buying decisions of others because, frankly, it's none of my business what someone else does with their money.
It's not quite fair of me to accuse this person of bias either. It just seemed like there was potential for bias in this situation, but hey, I'll admit I could be wrong. |
I admire Rja's second response, as it seems that he has mellowed a bit. Though I do agree with his first reply, one could also extrapolate his $15K vs $2K cable controversy into a $2K vs. $100 cable controversy.........it never stops really, until you are using lamp cord.
Glory, kudos for you for again pushing the boundries....though it is spelt 'Tara Labs'. Chuckle if it's legit, but I have been stung with fake cables/cords before, and mislabelling is the first sign. Many cables/cords you have to look very closely at, especially if you are borderline AADD and/or Dyslexic. Tera Labs and Tara Labs could be very different cables.
PS: Glory, do you need 3 meters? Or could 2.5 meters fill your void for fun in the sun? If 2.5 meters can do you, I might have some fun to send your way.
Cheers,
John |
My error in the spelling of Tara.
The chap he bought the wire from is to contact me and I will have him send me a 1M to demo.
I went into the Jade Hybrid listening session with a hungrey and open heart when I A/B it to the Rapture. The Jade is every bit its equal but with a different flavor.
Jmcgrogan2,
I moved my amp closer to my speakers so I can use a 2M/2.5M biwire. I would love to hear you opinion on speaker cables.
Rich from VD wants to send me a Gen. 1.1 to try out so..... |
Wow gary-sounds like all the the big guns are trying to win you over from that unknown gunslinger named Gabriel.But he's still probably the fastest gun in the west.
bobf |
I just think it's about time the unknown gunslinger be know to the high paying cable buyers.
I do not work for GG and I don't get any of my cables for free as I have to buy with real $$$ all my GG wire. I am just a very happy camper with this wire and am greatful for this thread. If it were not for members like Bobf I would be lost at sea with my ex cables. |
John,
You're right, I may have over reacted a bit. When I think $15k, I think SOTA CDP, pre-amp, amp or very nice speakers not wire. But hey, that's just my bias! |
Whoa......easy there big fella! First Tara Labs 'The Zero' and now VD Gen 1.1? That is some very pricey cables there.... well out of my league. Though from my previous experiences with cables from both companies, I'm pretty sure I would much prefer the Tara Labs over the VD cables.
A word of warning, be very careful to pre-bend those VD cables. They are very stiff, if you haven't used them before and are not used to 'stiff', you will find the definition with VD.
I still recall my first experience with VD Revelation speaker cables, I was in such a hurry to hook 'em up and listen, that I did not properly pre-bend them into shape for their route.....the result....the friggin speaker cable snapped the Cardas binding posts right off my Jeff Rowland Model 6 monoblock amp!!!!! Crickeys!!!!
I replaced the binding post, and finally listened. Big, bold flavor, similar to their power cords, but way too forward for my tastes. So I sent 'em back. I do thank Rick for letting me try 'em though.
Rja, I totally understand. $15K for cables is nuts.....I just wish I could be nuts enough to try 'em. LOL. Actually though, Tara Labs follows the same business model as many of the cable bandits. Jack up the list price to help those who need to feel that money spent = better. Most Tara Labs products can be bought brand new from an authorized dealer for 50% off list. Some companies, I won't name names, they know who they are, sell their product new for 75-85% off list price. The list price is meant for prestige sake I suppose. Some feel the need to brag that they got a great deal on a $6K cable/cord that they bought new for $900. However, look around, if every one is paying $900 for this $6K cable/cord......where the hell did this $6K number come from???? It's insane to me, but there are enough out there that need the comfort of a high price tag that these companies stay afloat....many even thrive. You'll never see CDP, amp/preamp, speaker manufacturers sell their product brand new for 75-85% off of list. This is why so many folks are so leary of the cable manufacturers.
Obviously Steve and JD, of Gabriel and Jade respectively, do not play this silly game. Which is why a $2K cable can be very competitive with a '$15K' cable.
Cheers,
John |
A few years back I had a set of Virtual Dynamics Revelation bi-wire speaker cables. You will need Tarzan to come over to help wrestle the gargantuan pythons into submission! Broke a speaker terminal first time I tried them. Can get frustrating.
XLR terminal in my DAC is loose from a 1.5m balanced VD Revelation Signature digital IC even though supported by 2 bungies (weighed 8 lbs). Also had a pair of balanced VD Revelation ICs. Warning; don't let your components be their sole support!
I came to the conclusion that, although the stuff sounds pretty good, it's just not worth the effort. Unless of course you need a workout 8^).
Compare this to ease of use of so many other fine sounding cables! |
rja,As long as Tarzan brings Jane and keeps himself busy hooking things up for me.
Maybe they are worth a listen
bobf |
Anyone compared Rapture to Acoustic Zen Absolute? Must be 2 killer cables... |
Bob,
The problems always start when Tarzan brings Cheetah 8^). |
Wow. I am evaluating the GG revelation mk2 and it is impressive. Please bear with my descriptions as I am not an expert reviewer. Great extension; highs that are clean and without edge, lows that are deep and articulate. And a sweet, clear midrange which gives vocals a body to go with their mouth. I hear low level details now that I've never heard before even with highly revealing all silver cables. I think it's because the noise floor is much lower than what I have become accustomed to. The music seems to flow effortlessly or maybe it's just because it takes less effort to enjoy it! The soundstage is just beginning to open up as these cables settle in but so far I am very pleased with these cables. I'm afraid to try the Raptures! |
I really like the GG rev mk2 which replaced the Signal Cable between my cd player and pre (see above for impressions). However, I still have a 5 meter length of Signal Cable silver resolution residing between my pre and amp. I believe my system and room are capable of even greater soundstage depth and holographic imaging which did improve with the GG cable. However, I can't just get a 5 meter length of GG rev mk2 (or Jade vermiel, kci silkworm etc.) to audition as this would be pretty pricey and it's probably not a standard length. Though the Signal Cable is quite good especially for the price, I suspect the gold cables would offer further improvement. Any suggestions or opinions? |
A 5m RCA pair of Extreme MK 2 may be the ticket.
I think it sounds better than the original Rev. |
I thought of that except I need to run XLR since I have vandersteen model 5a XLR x-overs that complement the vandy subs. I could get XLR-rca adaptors but would rather not at this point. I think I will need to shell out big bucks for the 5 meter cable or else reconfigure my system. Thanks for the suggestion though. |
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it is my understanding that Steve at GG makes and sells RCA and XLR cables....for the same price too. What am I missing here?
Cheers,
John |
The GG Extreme mk 2 is only available in RCA according to the ads here on agon
bobf |
That's how I understood it too. RCA only. |
Glory-how did the GG Rapture/Tara Labs Zero comparison fan out?
bobf |
Need opinions please. I recently upgraded my cd cable to a GG rev mk2 and am very pleased (understatement!) with the upgrade. I have a 5 meter silver cable from pre to pro that could be upgraded as well. However, it would be less expensive for me to try the Rapture on my CD player than upgrade the 5 meter pre to amp cable with the GG rev mk2. My concern is that the potential improvements with the Rapture might not be fully realized. If I could change the configuration of my set up and was only dealing with 1 meter lengths all around this would not be such a difficult problem to resolve but I can't. What would you do? |
Jc,
Where there's a will there's a way.
Get rid of the 5M. It's killing you. |
Buy a Sistrum SP-101 ($400.00) or a Sistrum SP-1 ($250.00) and place it next to the amp. The Sistrum stand will beat the living snot out of the stand you have your CDP on.
It looks like you have power on the back wall by the amp. Make sure it is a deadicated line. A 1M will now work for a lot less $$$ than buying a 5M wire. |
Glory, I think even Sistrum says that the SP-1 is superior to the SP-101. |
Norm,
I did a comparison between the Sp101 and the Sp1..I thought the Sp1 maybe better because of its lower mass and what I thought would be greater reactivity. I can say in my system that the Sp101 sounded better. I used an Audio Research tube amp for this test..weighed in at about 45 lbs. The 101 gave the ARC greater articulation and a slightly more focused stage. Tom |
Norm,
The SP-101 is superior to the SP-1, so says Robert at SS. I have found this to be true in my system. It is as good as the HRS M3. I have 4-101's & 2-1's.
JC,
Do I hear an amen?
Bobf,
I canned the Zero thing. Unless the gent is willing to send me his $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (14) GMAB Zero then I am at his mercy.
I did send the Rapture to a friend to hear and he is running JPS Labs Alluminata. I will get to hear his wire in my system. I will report back and forward his E-mail reaponse for all to read. |
You certainly have me reconsidering changing things around to accomodate running a shorter IC between amp and pre. While this solves that problem it creates a few more. I'd need to relocate my phono pre, TT, and dvd player to be close to my main pre too (additional shelving needed for these). And the stands would need to be low enough so as to not block the view of the projection screen on the wall behind the speakers. Then I'd have to sell the Zoethecus, probably locally. The other option is to keep the zoethecus, move all components including my amp to the side wall and have nothing between my speakers. But this would mean I'd need to sell my AQ everest speaker cables and replace them with something longer and no doubt costly too. If money was no object, this would all be so easy! I'm actually leaning towards placing everything on 2 new stands that flank my VT-200. There's adequate space for this set-up. The sistrum stands look interesting though. Thanks for the suggestions. |
JC,
Go to the pics on my system and see the two SP-101's stacked together. This may work for you to get your gear closer together.
The 5M SC is killing you and the sound of your system. Run all Rev. MK2 wire and be happy for the rest of your life. |
Out of desperation and in an attempt to save some mony, I actually thought about cutting my 5 shelf zoe into a 3 shelf and 2 shelf system to flank my amp. This would leave 4 unfinished "caps "on the posts which could be sanded and polyurethaned. Might work. I like the idea of the sistrum racks, 3 point support and lets the equipment breathe. Does your set-up get in the way at all in terms of center stage imaging and depth? Years ago, the prevailing attitude was that nothing should be placed between your speakers especially a big TV (and I'm not talking about the effects of speaker magnets here). |
Jc, long ago when I had the big Avantgarde Trios, I had to move my equipment to a side wall with only the amp or amps between the speakers. This entailed a 14' long pair of ics to run between the line stage and the amp. Then Synergistic Research ARTs, which were at the first reflection point behind my source components on the left side. At Ted Denning's suggestion, I moved the sources between the speakers, but I did keep the equipment low.
This meant that I could no longer have multiple Manas under each rack. I now have at least eight in my storage room.
Even without the ARTs, the sound is much improved, and with the ARTS, it is very good-the best I have had.
I am using the Mana stands plus three Halcyonics. Tom has tempted me to try the Sistrums and several others the Stillpoints. Right now I think I will do neither.
I should also note that long ago I tried the Zoethecus. The Manas were superior. |
Sorry that this thread is getting off the original topic of the gabriel golds but in a sense it is still related. My extreme satisfaction with the GG rev mk2 IC from CD to pre has led me to consider placing all my components close to my amp so that I could run a much shorter cable, perhaps another rev mk2, from pre to amp. I wonder whether I need to be that much concerned about the quality of the racks being that my listening room is part of a finished basement where carpet piercing spikes contact the cement floor. My zoethecus has points, seems very sturdy, and the 5 z slabs with their constrained layer damping and mass are way better than mdf or plywood. TBG did you use the z slabs with your old zoethecus? |
jc-isn't it fun when you find a cable/speakers that transforms your system and then makes you want to reconstruct your room to gain greater benefits.
been there!
bobf |
JC, no I did not. I am not even certain they were available at that time. |
I did it. Now my pre and CD are both within 1 meter of each other. Now, rapture or rev mk 2 and where should the better cable be placed if I do get a rapture, at the source? |
Yes, the source, although the pre to amp interconnect is very important as well. I like the old saying, " A chain is only as strong as its weakest link". (O: |
|
"The things we do for love" |
jc I suggest putting the Rapture from source to pre should you go with a Rapture.
When I started the process of converting from the original Revelation to the Rapture the first Rapture I got was installed from my source to pre.
As noted in the thread I eventually went all Rapture.
Each additional cable added exceeded my expectations and expanded on the Raptures strengths.
The Rev MK is also a great cable and is definately superior to the original Revelation in every area so even if you go with another Revelation MK 2 I believe you will be extremely pleased with the results
good luck
Bobf |
Thanks for the suggestion, Bob. Apparently another Rapture owner has 2 raptures he doesn't need and I would have considered these except that they are RCA and I need XLR. You're probably right about the rev mk 2's sounding so good in my system that I'm sure I could be happy with another one. -Joe |
jc,i agree with bobf use the Rapture from the source to pre
and the mk 2 from pre-to-amp |
I disagree.
Forget the MK2 and go Rapture all the way.
Why monkey around with the MK2 when, in a few days, you will write in about wanting to switch to all Raptures.
Rapture is a Koine Greek word meaning "cought up" and "taken away".
So you see if you want to be cought up and taken away by the music you must get all Raptures LOL. =8^)
|
I have two words for you gary:
"Financial constraints"
Joe :-( |
always have to work within the budget jc. As you know the mk 2 is a very special cable especially when compared with the higher priced stuff out there.Glory is right the rapture is much better but even the original Revs have replaced some "big time" cables .I was using a highly regarded cable that has an incredible amount of discussion here on agon and found the revs to be on par with. I find the mk2s to be better yet.If you can swing a pair of rev mk 2s go for it.If your first pair worked well than a second pair may even add more.You can probably trade up in the future anyway. |
Budget! also means WAF .Glad I don't have to sneak those boxes in and out anymore(just kidding)
The Raptures are the ticket just cost a little more to get better seats at the show.
bobf |
I pulled the trigger and am waiting for my raptures to be delivered. All I can say is that they better DELIVER ME!
-Joe |
you sound a little hesitant in your decision.
Hope they come thru for you |
Most I've ever spent on cables. Really liked the rev mk2's but I was intrigued by the comments about the raptures. Can they be that much better? I'll let you know... |
Jc4659,
Looking forward to your comments on the Rapture. |
Jc,
Any news on the Rapture wire??
I know, you have been cought up and taken away.... |
