Why is it that the folks who use the AMR or Supremes( I've got both)describe the effects of the fuses with the same descriptive language?
Or, in other words,different gear, but a similar sonic description of the improvements.
My position then is that if $80.00 a fuse is all that's holding you back,then 20 bucks should make the investment a little easier to take.
Then if you like what 20 buck fuses have to offer, you can move up the food chain,the choice is yours.
My personal preference for the AMR fuses at the moment is that my amps are old,and if something goes south and takes a fuse with it, a 20 buck loss is easier to take.
Until I tried the AMR, all I had used were the Supremes in these amps besides the stock fuses.
The Supremes have become my spares, and when you need 4 of them for the amps , 80 bucks for the AMR compared to 320.oo for the Supremes makes sense to me,especially when I don't notice a great deal of difference.
Different colourations, but not as big a difference as between a stock fuse and a 20 buck AMR.
I think the fact that so many people have such low expectations of a 20 buck AMR fuse doing anything different than a stock fuse isn't really all that bad.
It provides bigger impact when someone finds out for themself. |
Your correct, it's America. My belief is that electronics companies would really benefit from this upgrade for very little money, do you think they would discount it if it was true. |
due to an impending move i am currently using a temporary amp - mcintosh 162 - which sounds far better than i expected it to. one thing i did notice that my 'larger' amps do not exhibit is a slight grain and softness to the midrange. for $20 i thought i'd try an AMR fuse, but honestly was not expecting to hear any difference whatsoever. i was pleasantly surprised at the improvement - midrange grain is gone and there is now more detail in the mids. |
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Russ,
I'm afraid that you're preaching here to 12 pages of responses from people who hear a difference in having upgraded power cords and fuses.
I have a feeling that we hear what you're saying but we don't happen to agree with it.
Chuck
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Not sure if anyone knows that these are fuses that feed transformers, no signal at all goes through them. The 60-80$ fuses are in line with miles and miles of wire before you plug it in the wall. SPEND MONEY ON MUSIC.... |
Indeed the investment in a Benjamin Franklin worth of a single fuse can equate the improvement of a much more expensive tweak like a better power cord; provided that fuse does not blow too often. I have now several brands in my system and use the AMR for the rail fuses (whenever possible as AMR has still limited offering in fast blow fuse values) and a mix of Liquid Nano and Supremes for the power fuses. |
If a buss fuse costs a buck,and an AMR Gold costs $20.00,which sounds almost as good as the Hifi supremes that I used which cost $80.00,my suggestion is that the AMR fuse is a good value compared to the Supreme fuse, which I still feel is better,but is it 4 times better than the AMR and 80 times better than a buss fuse?Let me know if that's your logic. Another perspective ... let's say you want to upgrade your amp, pre, cables ... or speakers with a 1.5X improvement, will it cost > $60? My guess is probably YES into the thousandsssss ... For $60, you choose an INFERIOR component/sound??? I wish all my upgrades ONLY cost $60. NO-BRAINER!!!!! |
If a buss fuse costs a buck,and an AMR Gold costs $20.00,which sounds almost as good as the Hifi supremes that I used which cost $80.00,my suggestion is that the AMR fuse is a good value compared to the Supreme fuse, which I still feel is better,but is it 4 times better than the AMR and 80 times better than a buss fuse?Let me know if that's your logic. For me, $60 difference is RELATIVELY a drop in the bucket so if it's ONLY 2X better, I would go for the Supremes ... No brainer! Now if it's $6000 difference ... got to sleep on it. Plus you get Supremes from PCX 20% off in their never ending sales. |
Lacee, it is unimportant. We all have to make decisions about what stuff is worth to us. |
Pardon my inability to grasp the intent of your statement Tbg.
I stated that the AMR fuses made the same type of improvement in my amps as the 4 times more expensive Supremes.
If a buss fuse costs a buck,and an AMR Gold costs $20.00,which sounds almost as good as the Hifi supremes that I used which cost $80.00,my suggestion is that the AMR fuse is a good value compared to the Supreme fuse, which I still feel is better,but is it 4 times better than the AMR and 80 times better than a buss fuse?Let me know if that's your logic.
I used to bypass the fuses altogether and it cost me nothing to get better sound, so in that case,even spending a buck on a buss fuse is a waste of money because that one dollar buss fuse degrades the sound, whereas the free solid wire bypass improves the sound.Thanks Mr P. Aczel for bringing that to my attention in the late 1970's.
But while a solid chunk of wire,( eliminating the buss fuse) is an improvemnt, it gives no defence against an electronic mishap that could do considerable costly damage and which makes that one buck buss fuse seem like a real valueable investment afterall.
I guess I prefer to have my cake and eat it too.
Improved sound and protection.
That's the only logic I suggest. |
Lacee, doesn't your logic suggest that the AMRs must be worth 25 times more than Buss fuses? |
My initial impression of the AMR fuses in my Acoustat servo amps is that they share all the positive attributes of the Supremme fuse for 1/4 the cost.
If there are any tradeoffs, in my system, the AMR fuses are a bit more mid range oriented,a bit less emphasis at the top and bottom extremes compared to the Supremes, but this isn't a deal breaker.
The cost is reasonable for the improvement the AMR golds make to my system .I like the Supremes,but they aren't 4 times better to my ears.
One of my other two friends purchased fuses for his Bryston power amp and Modwright pre amp.
He has informed me that his sound has improved and is very pleased he tried them.
The third fellow is away on vacation,so I'll have to wait for his impressions.
So far 2 out of 3.
Fuses do matter, and wherever they are used they are doing something to colour your sound.
The AMR fuses should be the first thing on everybody's to do wish list.
They are probably the least expensive wish list item you can find.
I haven't tried to re-direct the fuse,they are placed with the lettering from left to right.
They sound just fine this way,but perhaps why I feel they are a tad shy in the bottom end.
But the mids seem to be clearer, so it's a nice tradeoff to make.
I also replaced the fuses in my Depth sub and Maggie centre speaker in my HT system with AMR golds,haven't had the urge to leave the 2 channel system however. |
Lacee and Zephyr24069,
Yes, the AMR fuse is directional, just as the Synergistic Research and HiFi-Tuning Supreme fuses are.
I just read your post and I'm at work, but I think that it and the other two brands go the other way.
Tbg, in his fuse review said it perfectly. In one direction the fuse sounds perfectly transparent, but when it's reversed, it sounds more full.
Both ways sound good, it's just your personal preference. With my Spectron amp and it's extreme transparency, the direction with the fuller sound works the best for me.
Chuck
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Thanks Lacee..looking forward to hear the results. I am expecting 5 AfterBurner8 outlets to arrive today...the folks at Avatar are first rate. |
I've received my shipment of AMR fuses.
Very good service from the folks at Avatar.
There were three of us in on the deal, so when all the impressions are in I'll post them.
One thing I would like to find out for us, is if there is any concensus on the proper direction the fuse should be positioned.
So far it's been with the writing facing towards the inside of the component.
I've told my friends to try both ways but they were wondering what others who have used the AMR golds have found to be the correct direction. |
Chuck,...thanks you. I am sorry the question was not more clear; it was directed towards you. Thanks again! |
Zephyr24069,
I don't know who you're specifically asking, but I still have my four Afterburner outlets and AMR fuse in place and doing well with them.
Have a great weekend!
Chuck
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Are you still happy with your AMR Gold fuses and your Afterburner outlets. I'm going to be getting 5 of the outlets and was thinking about the fuses as well... |
I have been using an AMR in my amp for about 2 weeks now, and also ordered one for my preamp, but unfortunately, it arrived DOA. Bonnie at Avatar was very accomodating, but will not have any more of the value I need 'til after CES.
Anyway, after listeming for two weeks, my initial impressions haven't changed very much. Changes are definately positive, but in my system, more of a specific change than an overall change. One member on this thread described the change he heard a few weeks ago, as I recall, as making the midrange more vivid. This is what I have experienced. The treble region seems no more or less extended, and I don't really notice a difference in the power or the definition of the bass region. What was plain to hear was a cetain clarity, or increased sense of vividness in the mids. This is in no way percieved as brightness. My McIntosh 2105, much as I love it, can fairly be faulted for a mild murkiness in the otherwise excellent mids, and this AMR fuse seems to have "fixed" a problem that I didn't know I had.
While I had heard amps that were more lively in the midrange, I had thought that I would have to give up the fullness I was accustomed to, but that is not the case.
The increase vividness, if I can call it that, seems to give voices better focus, and as a byproduct, reveal more nuance and detail. I don't notice any differences in the soundstage concerning width or height.
For $20.00 a piece, I can't see how anybody would lose by trying them. I look forward to getting the one for my pre. |
Avatar/AMR got back to me.
I will be ordering fuses for my amps and for some of my friends.
I'll post again with my impressions compared to Supreme fuses, and with their impressions compared to stock fuses. |
Lacee,
I found that the chips didn't want to stay wrapped around the fuses. So I bought a chip for each fuse, put them on the fuses and then placed scotch tape over them to hold them down.
At only $9.00 a piece, I thought going that route was easier than trying to apply and reapply the chips.
As far a receiving a response from Avatar, I'll email Darren and Bonnie and let them know about all of this.
Chuck
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Update
AMR: I called again to Avatar and had a nice chat with Darren. Turned out they were very (or too) busy prepping for the CES last couple of weeks and Debbie had an mid-ear infection. So finally the fuses are ordered and on their way. Lacee, you may want to give them another or final try (or wait till CES is over).
Liquid Nano (got the recent generation of grey liquid, supposed to be better sounding according to Jerry): much better, IME, than the HiFi Gold and IsoClean, not sure they will replace the HiFi Supreme for now; indeed a tad bloomy.
May order some Synergistic to close off this round of comparison for myself. |
Still no reply from Avatar(AMR), so the Supreme fuses went back in.
I had forgotten what they contributed to my enjoyment.
Took the WA chips off the stock fuses and re-applied to the Supremes.Don't do this too many times,less sticky each time you re-place them.
To sum up, until I can source some AMR fuses( slo blo-large size-.5 amp, and 5amp-two of each), the Supremes reign supreme in my system.
Going from stcok WA chipped fuse to WA chip Supremes was like changing to a nice tube amp from a decent solid state amp.
Or, I could say, it made my tube amps sound like better tube amps. |
Polyglot, I didn't find that to be the case. |
12-23-12: Polyglot
>>Avatar is the AMR North American distributor that I contacted. Still no reply.
Ditto, after sending a couple of reminder emails and voice mails I gave up and ordered Liquid Nanos, hopefully bettering my HiFi Supremes.
Polyglot (Threads | Answers | This Thread) Interesting, I thought they only blow one off inquiring warranty work. Marqmike, from my experience, Liquid Nanos adds a bloom to the sound compared to Supremes that is advantageous in some systems. |
Polyglot please post back when you get those Liquid Nanos in and broke in. Thank you. |
>>Avatar is the AMR North American distributor that I contacted. Still no reply.
Ditto, after sending a couple of reminder emails and voice mails I gave up and ordered Liquid Nanos, hopefully bettering my HiFi Supremes. |
Milpai,
In my system, the AMR fuse did everything that the Synergistic fuse did, but the music sounded more realistic.
Chuck |
Chuck,
Checked your system page. Thank you for posting your feedback. The AMR is interesting, based on the fact that you replaced those expensive fuses. What did the AMRs do in your system that the others could not? For me, Santa is coming with 2 more GIK 244 panels this season. Wonder if he can sneak in some fuses as well :-) |
In trying to understand what I was hearing with the Synergistic Research Quantum fuses and the HiFi Tuning Supremes versus my old IsoClean fuses, I noted the wire improvement within the fuses, the vibration dampening, the benefits of the use of WA Quantum Chips, and of course, the Quantum tunneling by SR using their Tesla coil. Since I now know that the WA Quantum Chips add a lot to the SR Quantum fuses, the only real question for me is what would the HiFi Tuning Supremes sound like with Quantum tunneling. I have yet to hear the AMRs and do very much appreciate their lower price while retaining high silver wire and dampening efforts. I suspect they too would sound better with WA Chips. But again, who knows what they would sound like with Quantum tunneling?
I think we are at a new plateau in fuses, but with only one company using the Tesla coil. Since long ago, when SR was good enough to Quantum tunnel other fuses, I know there is a big benefit from this. Even Buss fuses sounded much better with the Tesla coil treatment. I hope to soon hear the AMRs. |
Lacee,
I bought mine from Avatar Acoustics, just like Roxy54. Keep trying, Bonnie will have or get them for you.
Chuck |
Bonnie had the flu this past week, try again. |
Avatar is the AMR North American distributor that I contacted.
Still no reply.
I have a few friends who are interested, so I am looking at a dozen or more fuses.
Perhaps they've taken the jet for a Christmas ride.
Does anyone know what dealerships they are affiliated with? |
I have an AMR , I use them year.
On the Russian forum read this experience:
Results of one small study on audiophile fuses and search enhanced sound while maintaining a neutral tonal balance (conservation handwriting sound components).
It was at one chosen over the years by the practice, neutral and very expensive system with ultra-high resolution. This setup is the addition of so-called "Tube-like" and "warmth" are indicative of blurring, and not sound enhancement. Fuses replaced in the external power supply to the DAC Voltikus Antelope Zodiac Gold with external tufts Antelope Isochrone OCX and Rubidium Antelope 10M.
The starting point are the most common staff really neutral fuses 5x20mm, class T. In this family are rated T500mA, in the instructions and on the site recommend changing to T800mA, and in the manual there are contradictions about whether you want to fuse F or T.
Not in the Russian denominations and types were ordered in the U.S..
I'll start with the end in terms of neutrality, but lovers of color and warmth of sound (and want to correct it) should start from here.
1) AMR Gold Fuses T1A (the first attempt to change the fuses, ~ $ 27 in Russia):
Promise:
1. Physicality, density, better resolution and detail of the sound reproduction;
2. Less noise and distortion;
3. Extended dynamic range.
Timeout:
Bass more immediately, but it is not dense, and inflated, smeared, rather than higher resolution and detail sticks out; sounds much richer, but very warm and personal. Dynamic range is not found, can the overall volume a bit higher. No improvement scene.
The most vivid coloring for the experiment.
2) hi-fi tuning supreme T800mA (~ $ 77 in Russia):
Very clearly noticeable change in tonal balance, though much less pronounced than that of AMR, I would say, in the bounds of decency: LF dominate, the emphasis on the middle, as a very high frequency in the background. Drew the fleshy zamylennost low (again, much less than the AMR). Resolution does not add, but improves the space and stage.
3) hi-fi tuning silverstar T800mA (~ $ 40 in Russia):
The first is almost a neutral party. Sound slightly softened tones became more interesting (natural, without going over), the resolution greatly increased, although at the beginning (first half-hour) is the feeling a very light haze "softness." The stage is wider and deeper than standard.
4) Synergistic Research Quantum Fuse 1A (~ $ 85 in Russia):
Slightly increase the detail. Sound like cleaner. Permission and space is much more than any priveduschih participants. Bass slow at first, but during the first few hours of coming back to normal, and only please.
The most gentle and a little common test participants. You can buy it on ebay or in the store highend-electronics.com. While ordering T always come M. The first time came burnt M800mA (can not prove anything), for the second time - working M1A, but they burned when I accidentally pulled the plug when the power supply. Must be taken several times higher than the recommended value.
Thanks. |
Lacee,
Try Avatar Acoustics. It's run by Darren and Bonnie, a husband and wife team. My fuses are arriving today. |
I've tried to contact the North American distributor for AMR to purchase some fuses,as I can't find a AMR dealer in Canada.
So far no response.
Krell man, what's your source?
Thanks. |
Milpai,
I added the AMR Gold fuse on my system page.
I want to make sure that it's understood that the AMR Gold fuse works the best for me in my system.
All of the other fuses are extremely good too, and one of them may work better in someone else's system.
The real shocker is the price of the AMR fuse. It's only about a fourth of the price of the other fuses. I think that makes it definitely worth a listen. If someone doesn't like it, what have they lost, four cups of Starbucks coffee?
Chuck
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Milpai,
No, I don't have them listed, but I probably should.
I have the Furutech, HiFi-Tuning Supreme and Synergistic Research fuses in the closet, and the AMR fuse in the amplifier. My CD Player doesn't have a fuse.
I hope that you have a Merry Christmas!
Chuck
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Chuck,
So you replaced all Synergistic Research with AMR? I don't see them under your Accessories list. |
Vladimir,
Until I tried the AMR fuse, my reference was the Synergistic Research fuse.
Since the AMR fuse is only $20.00, I'd suggest buying one of each and trying them in your system to see what you think.
Merry Christmas!
Chuck |
Greetings to all from St. Petersburg.
I AMR fuses, others do not know, which is better?
Synergistic research quantum fuse I think to buy.
Can you say more about the experience Synergistic Research Quantum fuse, the pros and cons.
Thanks,
Vladimir |
I recently listened to the AMR fuses, The Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme, and the Synergistic fuses.
On tube equipment, I like the AMR over the others. They are more tonally correct and counteract the tendency of tube equipment to sound "soft". These differences are slight, but very noticeable. The Supreme fuses were just a little too bloomy, and the midrange on up had a slight glare or emphasis.
On the solid state equipment,(I only tried two components), The Supreme fuses gave a little more bloom and weight, while bringing out more detail, which silver usually does. The effect was slight and welcomed. It was not like using a silver interconnect, or worse yet, a silver conductor power cord. Those usually soften the bass too much, and throw off the tone. The Supreme fuses are like adding some of the positive aspects of silver conductors, while minimizing the usual negatives.
I may need more time with the Synergistic fuses, but my first impressions are they are more shrill than the others, but are quite clear in the upper treble range. |
Mapman wrote,
"Benefits should always outweigh risks. That's the basic equation for what works. The users decides. The purpose of a fuse is to protect the equipment that uses it. That's the main benefit. WHatever it might or might not do for sound quality should be a secondary consideration IMHO."
Faint heart ne'er won fair maiden. Methinks you worry too much.
"Most everyone at the Geek Meet in the Desert cannot get above the noise floor." - Stereophile reviewer Shannon Dickson's comment on the sound of high end systems at CES |
The gold fuses actually make sense to me in terms of potential technical advantage. Assuming they are certified somehow to work as a proper fuse should to blow at the right timeas (unknown?), these are one I might consider next time I need a fuse replacement.
Benefits should always outweigh risks. That's the basic equation for what works. The users decides. The purpose of a fuse is to protect the equipment that uses it. That's the main benefit. WHatever it might or might not do for sound quality should be a secondary consideration IMHO. |
It's been a couple of weeks since I put the WA chips on my 4 HiFi Supreme fuses in my Acoustat servo amps.
The direction of the fuse does make a difference,more evident with the chips.
A cheap, but worthwhile tweak to the HiFi Supreme fuse,a real bargain if it improves a stock fuse. |
The AMR Gold fuse has gold plated copper end caps and a silver alloy as the filament. I don't know why they call it 'Gold fuse'. |
Actually the fuse wire of the Gold Fuse is silver alloy, the end caps are gold plating over copper. The reason for gold for the end caps is less oxidation compared to copper or silver, obviously. |
I think gold is a good conductor compared to other metals that might be used. Silver is even better I believe.
Most importantly, for use in a fuse, I think it has a relatively low melting point as well compared to other metals. That would make it viable for fuse use.
Not sure if better than alloys used specifically in fuses or not. Definitely expensive! But gold does have more marketing appeal than alloys, so it might be reasonable to use it if there is a market willing to pay. Who knows, it probably has as good a chance of sounding better to someone as anything. |
Mapman, why do you say that. Gold is not a good conductor. |
