Mijostyn, you are exactly right…I only posted the video to prove I had the speakers. I guess all of the videos on my YouTube channel are of someone else’s room. What would be my motivation to play other speakers and lie about it? You act like I trashed the Fleetwoods and warned everyone to not buy them. I only said they didn’t sound good in my system compared to about a dozen other speakers. I guess we are judging how a system sounds by a YouTube video now….try again.
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Yes the price of lumber has gone up which could justify a price increase but I remember years ago when Jonathan released the mini speaker. It's initial price was $13,000 which I was saving up for to purchase and about a year later I was ready to purchase but the price increased to $18k. Perhaps this is done with all their new product offerings. It's you the consumer to decide if it's a good value or not. |
I have no dog in this fight, but feel that the conspiracy theorists about OMA don't know what they're talking about. These guys have been building and selling extreme high end stuff for ages. Their Technics SP10 plinths are highly regarded. They have a novel approach. Those familiar with Fern & Roby, who are newbies by comparison, might appreciate see some similarities in concepts. Vitas, the former lead designer for Veloce, the highly regarded amp/pre manufacturer that were in Harry Pearson's reference rig for some time, I'm told has been doing some work for OMA. Yes, their stuff is high priced in general, but that's no shocker when you consider the market they serve, the US costs, premium materials, etc. Check out the audiophiliac video, it's fun and spot on explaining this company. Cheers, Spencer |
@kw6 I honestly prefer my Fleetwood Deville over the Avantgarde duo that I used to own. My room was probably too small for the Duo and the Deville fit better but it’s also a little more than that. The Deville are not as in my face and a little more laid back. I feel like I get a little more warmth from my Fleetwood. I’m extremely happy with my Fleetwood Deville. |
So I had my Devilles for maybe two weeks…and so far they have been:
What sets these apart from the ‘others?’ Well…not a whole lot really! (Sorry to upset the passionates!!) But they are great at what they do…but thats not a surprise… ‘Small horns’ are a tragedy right? Well not so fast…the Devilles exude better than your normal hifi speaker sound quality in the price range. What do I mean by saying this? Compression drivers rely heavily on the flange or horn section to project sound more directional than your typical non-loaded driver ala tweeter/midrange. To some capacity concentric drivers or waveguides can mimic a similar dispersion of what would be instrumental in a compression driver’s delivery, the flange/mouth. That said, The Devilles deliver a ‘pro’ sound. Imo, and depending on application, professional drivers/speakers serve better overall performance than Hifi speakers because they need to project sound across the listening space. This can be at a bar, hotel, small venue, hall, or out in an open field/stadium. These profession speakers need to project sound across the crowds, through heavy furniture items, like a sea of chairs and clothed tables (ever been to a wedding or small jazzy venue?) or even a big non-reflective room. This is what the Deville does, but does it in a more subtle way targeted for smaller rooms. However, you’ll get strong vocals, to the point of really envisioning the performers lips. Turn it up a little more, you’ll actually feel or sense the sound energy floating in space, but its not overbearing….its quite an experience to witness this in the comforts of your own home rather than a high SPL environment like a closed space or a pro SQ sound car, for example. They are not shouty and are not fatiguing. You may have heard many reviewers and forum people refer to them as ‘musical’ — Oh no there’s that word again, “musical”. I sometimes laugh at hearing musical used to describe something cause my inner joke is ‘uh oh, there goes the roll off at 16k….!’ (Harbeth *cough*) And imo and experience with these Devilles, yes there is somewhat of a roll-off on the topend. But thats not a bad thing is it?—not so much. From what I can hear, have done in my past experience (tuning/measuring), and comparing them against really nice measuring speakers (TAD ME1) these are just as good, but also different. But they play louder and continue to play cleaner at much higher volumes. One should ask themselves…if a (or your) speaker can perform passed the sonic threshold scale in your listening space, do you need it (or the next speaker) to surpass it even more than that?? Be realistic here…! There is nothing of magic or sorcery happening here (sorry passionates!), this is just the product of a well designed compression driver (everything from the phase plug, the incredibly dense wooden horn [conical]-had to say it!)) to the creative albeit simplistic design of the cabinet and port) with woofer to deliver what they were intended to do, and that is play sound waves (music reproduction in my case) from a source. This is a quality product at doing so. Let me digress here a little. Companies in a position like OMA have this ability to put out a “specialty” product like the Deville not only because they’re passionate at what they do, but also because they posses (from their success of the parent company) the ability to pass on creativity in and on to a smaller scale or more price attractive segment. Can you imagine the other companies’ R&D trying to come up with a left field product for the ‘masses’ or even for limited run? It’s just food for thought…:) Back to my experience…. But what about that roll-off you say? Yeah, well to be frank thats probably where the Deville may not excel or surpass other speakers for musical tastes that are centric around genres such as pop, electronica (EDM), or even some music like rap/R&B, punk, new wave, house, Euro, international, etc. But wait, those aren’t audiophile genres, you say? I know many folks (and probably a great population) whom are actually just as much a hifi nut or music lover of all sorts that would put up a nice finger gestures in the faces of those that are in that camp of audiophillia pompous-try. For comparison to a past owned speaker, I do think my previous ME-1s delivered better those little subtle but necessary atmospherics that for example, spookily appeared behind the listening position. Were they natural or real sounds…I dont know? But the sound engineer wanted me to hear it that way…and I really appreciated that sense of being in that space, sort like being sucked into the performance, even for a very brief moment. Granted the sound they produced was a more modern HiFi sound, but it was equally quite like-able, imo and in some ways better. Those ME-1s are pretty special too. As briefly mention, the Deville is a breath of fresh air to easily position and move around to your rooms sonic shortcomings. Though, one caveat here is that they kind of rock back and forth where the stand and speaker marry. I’m not losing sleep over it though. I like this speaker more so , for its unorthodox design. It makes you want to look at it, but also invites you to touch it. Made out of real wood, yada yada…no high gloss protective paint… I think they will eventually fade and discolor over time if placed in a room where direct sunlight shines on them. If thats so, then the heirloom conversation does’t apply to me. ‘Here you go son, my speakers I leave to you…’. ‘But dad, why are they so…’ hush — just listen :P So am I keeping these speakers…? yah, i think so, at least for now. They seem to be a solid speaker to build around (Well my window to return has sailed ha!). It reproduces musical instruments and sound performance with dense sonic presence yet can exhibit the subtleties that kinda make you smile. I think they deliver a pro sound. To that note - Thats probably my recommendation here and for those interested or curious, you’d have to demo it in person(oh really?)…over the course of my years, I think ‘regular’ hifi speaker are more than good enough and still perform and even excel in our sonic deficiently treated rooms. As many would argue, and chances are, and I would whole heartedly agree, your [insert best speakers you’ve heard or even yours] are probably better and you dont need these! As I say this humorously, one can describe this speaker with all superlatives that our (jaded) egos need to fulfill and justify what a great experience these deliver. Current gear (very attainable and someone Everyman gear): Diablo 120 Dual Rel carbon specials Lumin X1 Some fancy but not over the top cabling - not an anti-cabler. |
@low325 Extremely well written post. Thank you. For me, how the speakers and more importantly how the treble sounds is precisely why I love these. For comparison, I’ve owned TAD CR-1 and they were so treble hot, I could not stand them. After a dozen amps on them, I gave up and sold my TAD. I listen to a lot of not so well recorded music as well as audiophile tracks and everything sounds great. Like you said, no listener fatigue. Just wonderful music. I’m keeping mine, unlike so much other gear I don’t have anymore. :) |
@joeinid Thanks, and I hear yah…what you describe is where they are at. For me, I like a little more “surprise” in the passage, a little sparkle here, shimmer there, … those sonic characteristics for me, tend to add to the stage width, height and depth. Additionally imo, all add in to the “atmospherics,” so I feel there is something a little lost here. They are not totally missing, maybe more so along the lines of being restrained, hence the roll-off comment. Could be intentional and thats how it was voiced…who knows, but its a formula that works for them. And i do listen to very bad recordings also. In addition to being about the music, but can the music take you back…can you hit that replay (or lift that needle/arm over and over) button and sit there for hours and hours playing the same song? Thats me… Again, I’m not advocating that Fleetwood Sounds or any manufactures add these in or boost frequencies while they voice during R&D. There are pro’s and cons to compression drivers. (Hey, ever see a horn speaker and an additional tweeter or super tweeter mounted as well…;0) I know a few folks who went from CR1s to the poor man’s S-1EX and have said they liked the treble and ‘control’ more on the lower end speaker…the ME-1, imo are better than those S-1EXs (by a lot!) and don’t have that forwardness, maybe the magnesium mid cone measured less favorable on the chart, but sounded more ‘natural’ on the ear…? Also, I think the ME-1s are somewhat priced (MSRP) along the same range as the Deville, so both are standmount and fancy great tech between them. It almost doesnt even look like a fair fight…but man, they are fighters in their line up and giant killers to others (just add a sub(s) and you’ll see!). Too bad the lines never gained a strong foothold here amongst the network. But hey that’s a different story for another time. |
I really love my pair of Fleetwoods and have never found there to be any roll of in the top end at all - I think they are quite even from bottom to top. While they are true to source, and an honest speaker, they maintain a little bit of a glow that just makes music sound better than most hifi. I’m powering them with a 90 watt tube amp (Zanden 6000) - What’s insane is the amount and volume of bass these stand mounts can make. You just can’t imagine how a speaker of this size could play so loud and so clean while remaining uncolored - these things SLAUGHTER stuff like B&Ws and Wilsons guys - it’s not even funny. The Harbeth 30.2s in my second system sound like they have Persian rugs covering them and stuff like B&W sounds like nails of a chalkboard by comparison. I think the review from Steve Huff does a great job of explaining the Fleetwoods. All I can say is that I am excited to see what Jonathan and the Fleetwood team come up with next! http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2021/10/28/the-fleetwood-deville-speaker-review/ |
I just read this thread and find funny that people either tip toe or poke stick like bunch of pansy. Do there need be approve for someone like this speaker and give money for it. If this couple produce speaker with passion and spread good sound to buyer at any agree price it win win. I read reviewer who tip toe around say 5 times that he “buy” this speaker “no at discount”. Who care if he buy it he finally have something nice to listen it about time. Maybe he give other speaker to some other guy or chop for firewood. This guy great at SEO but horrible spelling with mistake all over. Difference between optimism person and pessimistic- Pessimism see problem with every opportunity. Optimistic person see opportunity in every problem. This thread read like pessimism. I going buy this speaker for my car polish garage because it seem like good match for size space and spirit I like when I polish car. Good for owners and maker nice look speaker. |
I happy you secure. That most important thing in life and why I make such comment above. It seem like some thread everyone must try justify action. Like guy that review speaker write over and over that he not get speaker at discount. I just say be bold say what you like have ball. Maybe I write lately out of little frustration because my wife cancel circus performer party because one of close girlfriend got “it”. I just looking forward to crazy pool party weekend but never happen. |
Steve Huff is a gear polygamist and tends to fall head over heels in love with what he is currently reviewing. No judgement though and besides, his review chronology from somewhat average gear into the entry level to the high end is informative to those on the same journey. Oswald Mills builds some cool gear and its nice that the pricepoint of the Fleetwood is within reach of most audiophiles. Aesthetically?....maybe the Fleetwood’s should be described as "she is smart as heck, loyal, forgiving, will write your term papers to a very high standard, has rich parents, loves football and jello shots and has a great personality". |
I am sure the Fleetwoods are wonderful speakers but Huff is really a flip flopper. Reminds me of my 21 year old son falls in love every week with a new girl... @ghasley you summed it up well! Steve Huff is a gear polygamist and tends to fall head over heels in love with what he is currently reviewing |
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It's been a while since anyone posted in this thread so I thought an update might be in order. I have a pair of Volti Audio Rival SEs paired with a Linear Tube Audio Z40 integrated amp in the main part of my basement that I absolutely love, but I also have a dedicated listening room that I have been upgrading over the last year. The big decision was whether I wanted another "horn-based" based speaker or wanted a contrast from the Voltis. I seriously thought about keeping it more reasonable with a pair of Harbeth 30.2s but when I had the opportunity to buy the demo pair of Devilles from my local dealer I jumped at the opportunity. Long story short, as others have said, they are just a wonderfully engaging speaker. They share some similarities with the Voltis but are very much their own thing. I've been playing around and rotating my integrated amp collection through the system starting with a Naim Supernait 3 (meh), my trusty Manley Stingray (a little too bloated and unfocused) and then my LTA Z40 (fabulous). I'll also try the Gold Note IS-1000 that's upstairs over the weekend. I'm going to borrow some of the other LTA amps to find which one I like best with them and will also try and in-house demo the McGarry SA-1 (with either an LTA or Backert Labs preamp) and maybe the AGD Audion monoblocks (with the same two preamps). I've read what some of you have tried and would love to see any updates on where you are now. I may also try to borrow the :Luxman integrated that was mentioned in this thread. In my room, these speakers like some toe-in. I started with them straight out into the room (my dealer's recommendation) but things lacked focus, especially when I was playing records. A little three inch move on both speakers and everything just became more immediate, visceral and completely immersive. My bottom line is always "is this engaging" and "do I want to just keep listening". So far, yes to both in spades. |
Update to my setup. I now use a Bakoon AMP-51R and with this amp in the chain brought the synergy. At this point, with horns or even to venture to other high efficiency/types of speakers, I have no desire to run any other high power SS, tube or other new-kid-on-the-block amp. Enleum is the new company now so I am excited to see what else is coming from them. In no way affiliated with these any of the brands mentioned in this entire thread. Just found something I like. And to reiterate, these Fleetwood Deville have been delightful to play with in this journey. |
Thought I’d share some details on this thread…though maybe I should’ve created a new one…?? Anyhoot, I took a leap and went and grabbed the SQ version. Sharing my experience for those who are interested. Deville SQ There have been a couple of reviews done with the SQs already, both on YouTube and Stereophile, but I wanted to share a normal ole bloke’s experience with them. Right off the back this speaker walks the listener down the path of it being closer to a truth speaker. But I wouldn’t call it a truth or neutral speaker. It definitely lends to itself more ‘hifi’ sounding than the standard versions.
Whats different now? Check the site or the videos, all I can say, if you really thought these were conversation starters, then the SQ just steps it up in color tones…so it becomes visually striking and adept. I chose the dyed color and not the roasted option. None of the natural wood finish is exposed where as the standard, you have more of the natural wood options lest the body is black (not worth mentioning the other color options since I owned the standard black). You can argue and say my colorway takes away from the reason to adore the look of natural woods in your home…but it matches my decor more…to each their own, its all personal anyway.
Sonics: (the good parts, eh? ….where everyone gets bent out of shape? :)) Topend The Standard Deville had this noticeable slight rolloff at 16k or a steeper one at 18k - give or take. God bless you if you can hear this, some people think I’m crazy lol! The SQ has more of a flatter response from 16k and beyond. There is information up here folks, and in some ways, can give the illusion to an extended ‘open-ness’ with the sparkle or the airiness of an instrument(s). In music, your brain will process together the topend with the frequencies just below it and you achieve this sense of top end extension and naturalness. I cant get over the fact when folks say they they dont want a detailed speaker - that it translates to a brighter sounding speaker. Well not if those freqs are flat and well controlled. What you’re hearing on brighter sounding speakers are a boost or untamed FR. *face palm* Dont be afraid of the details :)
The upper range sounds more open and airy. It’s difficult to EQ for this characteristic, I speculate (will be doing this a lot) that this translates to the silver wire they are using…I also notice a greater sense of holographic-ness in the sound stage - again, silver wire influencing it…? Maybe not the only factor….
The decay….Ohhhh the decay! - I absolutely adore this sonic characteristic…! One thing that is so memorable are the edges of instruments sound more delicate and softer. They remind me of very good Be drivers but without the distortion at high levels. Without knowing all the change in parts, this also might attribute to the upgraded crossover delivering the upgraded sound quality in this department. I also suspect an adjustment in the crossover points - see speculation below.
The mids and the midrange: (this might get a little technical) Compared to the Standard, I sense a ‘clean up’ in the region from 500hz to 1.6k. My ears are sensitive to the nastiness that can happen around 1k. When this is troubled, then 500hz-800hz can also sound cloudy almost muddy in my opinion. Vocals start to sound too forward and shouty. Second order harmonics can become a tad overwhelming.
If I were to describe the sonic differences through a tangible example, I would explain it as if I were using a PEQ…I’d visualize that the XO points are tuned differently (from the Standard Deville). The difference could be in the HP of the horn and the LP of the woofer. They either adjusted this by using a shallower slope, for example -6db to -12db at both f(0)’s. Or…they adjusted the f(0)’s to play a lesser range…? Lets say for example, the horn would play 2k-20k on the Standard Devilles with a -6db slope on the HP, now the SQ would be at 3.2K-20k. So essentially you have the drivers playing less of the spectrum but at the same time, finding a better coherent balance between the two drivers. The same adjustment would apply to the woofer - affecting its performance cause it does have to not work as hard, so energy is ‘better’ spent on the lower mids from 63hz to 125hz. When this region plays cleaner, your male voices from 400hz-800hz sound GREAT and realistic! (250hz is tamed, no muddiness here). And then your vocals start to open up and sound more isolated, clear and prominent, hearing more lips smack and the tiny breaths in between. But also with the mids playing less of the spectrum, the bass sounds more articulate, denser and are now floating in space between those speakers, more so than ever before…you get to hear the depth and placement of the instruments playing in this region. Hearing a more profound initial bass attack up to 4K and resonating at 100hz is an eye racing experience!
That said, another speculative point, the woofer now plays more in-tune with the solid wood enclosure which is why its noted to have a certain tonal quality? I can attest to the bass notes really sounding lit up in space and not trapped in a box.
I also think there is a pull or cut at around 1k, cause now you have voices and instruments sounding like they extend further back into the stage adding to that creepy but crazy cool holographic-ness. A vocalist still is up close but there is this depth to how far the illusion appears. One would have to be careful cutting too much in this region with a wide Q or else it’ll sound like a huge hole in the reproduction. The SQs do this really beautifully without sacrificing much…
This step up in speaker seems to be playing at ‘friendlier’ frequencies so now you get this (more) obvious sense of ease as you listen to music. And this is what translates into a (more) calming experience but can easily excite you without the annoying eye blink during powerful and dynamic material. Bring it all together and you’re connecting to the music; this takes me beyond foot tapping…I’m air drumming or playing an invisible guitar/violin/piano, to body swaying with performers whom magically appear in the room with an intimate performance. (Dare I say tearing up, goosebumping and singing/acting along? Hey I listen to musicals! Okay I’ll dial the BS meter down a notch - NOT!)
This isnt something new or magical thats happening here. The DIY crowd, folks have been doing this for ages…the quality of the XO makes that much of a difference…subtle enough but so much there to appreciate! And thats where I could say the SQs has that extra pep in its step, notch up the “je ne sais quoi” touch from the standard ones. There is a YT channel that takes in speakers and upgrades the xo and internal treatments. This is exactly what is happening here (with the exception of the solid wood body)…the DIY crowd has been sourcing top parts since the beginning. Those amp and sound guys have been doing speaker builds for quite some time. Ojas also has some kit speakers that are probably worth opening up and playing with the XO. Hmm don’t give me ideas I just bought the SQs!!
So is there anything you dont want in the SQs? Well, thats tricky, I referenced at the beginning, it lends itself to sounding more hifi. It means, more detail, and it might, just might mean more annoying frequencies that bother some folks. Also, when its hifi sounding, maybe your preferred music/genres (say like symphonic) may not sound so immediate. I’ve played my usual genres (just about everything under the sun) through the SQs and to me, it all sounds gorgeous. I did get a little tickle on the higher frequencies I’ll be honest there….! So ymmv.
There is something to say here about what this company is doing and why they are so proud. They have a focus and are on a mission to share a formula on what it takes to reproduce good sound but also deliver in a non-me-too (whimsical) design. They take pride in the materials they use, are passionate in the manufacturing process, and stand tall in the labor and abilities to making a domestic product. The design….? Well thats very subjective, but I like it…its not even just the design but the overall function of the speaker/stand combination. The lack of it being a 100lb + monster makes it so practical to move them into a session for critical listening, and then just as easily tucked away so the missus won’t have a cow. The price? All subjective and relative right? :). The standard version is still crazy good. If I were to speak more nonsense and in fictitious percentages, I would say the SQs are that last 11%-17.5%, (until you get to the next class performer) depending on how resolving your system might be. I’ll say this, maybe I spent ‘enough’ for me to realize I reached my end speaker…a fool and his money? But this is a damn good one for me.
One thing to note - Synergy. I have to mention my 51R is a wonderful match for the Devilles. It never gets in the way of the music no matter how loud I turn it up. It has a fluid, lit up, see-through-the-window characteristic, along with what was mentioned in another (23R) review…when music elements come at the listener and then recoil back into the stage in a very controlled fashion. This creates such an engaging experience. Keeping my Deville SQs, if my 51R ever takes a dump, I would grab the 23R in a heartbeat. Current system details: Deville SQ Bakoon AMP 51R (can’t stress enough how good these amps are…!! YMMV) Dual REL Carbon Special (no longer in use…could be on the chopping block!) Lumin X1 (Nothing too special on cabling at the time of this writing) |
Congratulations @low325
Now I’m jealous. Love my standard Deville but would love to have the SQ version. Please keep your updates coming. Thank you. |
Thanks @joeinid ! Definitely something to keep in the back of your mind to grab a quick listen. The Standard has so much of the DNA already, its such a touch, albeit a sweet one in sonic ‘differences’. I say differences because it approaches that ‘P’ word again — Preference. I can see, actually, from experience - “know”, where the sonic signature of the standards actually could apply to a very good number of music genres and/or music types and even be preferred.
I’ll continue to share progress reports.…. |
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I see the new interest audiophiles have in horns as a positive thing. I'm sure it will lead a few to experiment with larger fully horn-loaded systems and that's where a horn truly reaches its peak in performance. To me, some of the small entry-level audiophile horns are greatly overpriced but audiophiles generally consider pricing as much as performance and many will not consider lower prices as worthy of investigation.
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I just came from a 2 hour audition of these speakers. Speculating without hearing them first means you'll miss out on something really good. The source was an Aqua steamer with the matching DAC. The preamp was a Backert rhythm. Amps were some little class Ds that I didn't really regard (just got a new amp). The sound at low levels was excellent. Piano, vocals, strings all sounded as they should. I found the session very engaging and could have sat there for hours more. My only hesitation is the price and the high price of the stands. I'd be over 20k on these and it's making me pause to decide if I want to go there. |
I may be able to demo the Cube Audio soon. Maybe not in their own native enclosure but in one that used to house a fostex driver. Totally different room and gear, and wont be back to back since i have to travel over an ocean to hear it. I’m only ever interested in hearing the Nenuphar/Cube driver is because of the folks who give praise with it paired with a Bakoon. Bakoon with Deville SQ = 😍 |
@grislybutter are you referring to the Cube Audio Nenuphar, the Fleetwood Deville, or both? I find them both unusual, particularly the Nenuphar, as I prefer wood finishes and grills in most cases. I think I could live with the looks of the Fleetwood, but they seem pricey at full retail, especially the newer version @ almost $20K. |
