Field coil dava cartridge

I'm an ocean away from you, I believe, so I'll be happy to make do with the good wishes implicit in your offer. Thank you for those!

@rauliruegas , I have no experience with an air bearing straight line tracker in a system with well tuned subwoofers so I can not say for sure but a vertical effective mass that is too low would explain that. A carriage driven straight line tracker or the pivoted straight line trackers like the Reed 5T and Schroder LT should be able to make excellent bass by just increasing their effective masses to suit the cartridge. You can always add mass. 

The MC Diamond has played enough sides now that I can definitively tell you that if you have a phono stage with an excellent signal to noise ratio you definitely want one of these. In comparison to the MSL Signature Platinum it has a bit more of an edge. It does not get sibilant but it has more bite. It is the punchiest cartridge in current mode I have ever heard. It's bass is defined and aggressive. It has more gain in voltage mode with a better signal to noise ration but it is not quite as  aggressive. I am willing to live with a little hiss (only noticeable with the tonearm lifted) for this cartridges performance in current mode. The MSL is smooth and effortless with a much higher gain in either mode and might make a better classical cartridge for some folks but for Jazz and Rock I prefer the Ortofon. Next up is the Lyra Atlas Lambda SL.  

Dear @mikelavigne ​@bonzo75 : Here it’s an Audio Technica cartridge design celebrating the 60th AT Anniversary . I know that for both of you and several audiophiles AT could means almost " nothing " but I have a deep and wide first hand experiences with almost all the AT MM and LOMC designs because I owned and still own some of them in the same that with the AT Signet division models that are even better than the AT ones.

Things are that the AT design 60th anniversary they decided to make only 60 samples and guess what: in less than 10 days disappeared/sold and unfortunatelly I arrived just late to own my sample.

All the owners not even have the opportunity to listen it they just bougth because is AT ( I never listened an AT cartridge that sounds bad including its AT95 with a price tag of 120.00 that’s better that you can imagine. ) and because is great design where they really are celebrating when choosed that the diamond cantilever and stylus be builded from ONE diamond piece where the stylus is not attached to the cantilever but is integral part with the cantilever and this is UNIQUE today for say the least and an achievement.

I hope that AT can decide to build a new set with at least 500 cartridges.

Last time the audio world seen a cartridge with one diamond cantilever/stylus one piece was in 1980 and that kind of challenge was made it by Sony with it 88D model and I’m almost sure that both of you never had the opportunity to listen it or even know Sony as a top LOMC manufacturer. I still own two Sony different models and are great performers.

Anyway here it’s the Audio Technica that was mentioned in other thread. Only for your records Nagra designed a cartridge with a price tag over 18K ( the Audio Technica is only: 9K. ) but Nagra gentlemans are not specialist in cartridges and choosed not diamond or boron as the cantilever but Ruby/titanium where that sole characteristics for the gentlemans that know about cartridges makes not even turn their face to see the Nagra that between other things has around 14.5grm. on weigth so figure. Btw Nagra comes with the same stylus shape that top Ortofon and VDH.

Other true advantage with the Audio Technica is that’s a very good tracker, here there are " no errors ". @mijostyn I don’t think AT will buil that cartridge with low internal impedance as you like but it’s not necessary for maybe no other gentleman but you.

R.

@rauliruegas , The vapor deposition prosses they use to make the cantilever is not easy and requires very special and expensive equipment. I can not believe they would use it for only 60 examples. There will be more to come and probably at an even lower price. If they can get an output of 0.55 mv out of a cartridge with a 12 ohm impedance they can certainly get over 0.2 mv out of a cartridge with a 6 ohm impedance. 

Granted I have not had enough experience driving current mode phono stages with many assorted cartridges to be absolutely sure. What I have heard so far is two very expensive cartridges perform better in current mode. A third will be listened to shortly. Three strikes and you are out.  

Dear @mijostyn : Sure Audio Technica can do that. As a fact this is not its first diamond cantilever model, many years ago I owned the AT 1000 ( in the 70’s. ) that had a very low output level of 0.1mv with very low internal resistance even at the same time AT developed a dedicated SUT ( t1000 ) that I owned too and was really good with 8kg. on weigth. AT is second to none but a very low profile in the high-end and with to low true price tags in its models. The AT came wit its dedicated headshell and that " dedicated " is something real because that headshell you can't use with any other cartridge due that the AT1000 top plate was shaped not flat ( the Ortofon dedicated headshells in some of its models are just universal headshells, not like the AT 1000).

Just imagine if that 60th anniversary model instead AT manufacture came with the Nagra name, you can be sure that its price tag will be at least around 30K-40K.

R.

@rauliruegas , if not more!

I have heard, compared, and liked various audio technica from AT33, Art 9, to Art 1000. They are nice cartridges, very average compared to DaVa.

@rauliruegas  seems to assume and state other people’s preference without knowing their experiences to suit his theories.

on the discussion of air bearing linear trackers, my article on Vyger is here 

Interesting Diversion to the Zero Distortion Site.

It was like an exhibition equivalent to London Fashion Week for HiFi Bling and the ignition not being too far behind to show a little more nosiness toward such exhibits.

I have had two long sessions in front of the Audio Music 833's in a Home System a few years ago and was introduced to them in use with a selection of Pre-Amp's up to a Value of £6000. Iwas quite grateful for the encounter and hospitality offered during the experience. 

Dear @bonzo75  : 

"  seems to assume and state other people’s preference without knowing their experiences to suit his theories. "

Ok then, please tell us about those vintage Sony cartridges because this is what I posted, not about AT listen.

Btw, difference with AT cartridges is that all AT models has not that high FR deviations and along are very good trackers.

I know you are in love with those FR deviation levels, nothing wrong with that but that you can't compare a heavy colored sound vs a more accurated one that can put you nearer to the recording. Seems to me that almost no single LP recording comes with that high FR deviations as your cartridge in love.

Now, about the LT tonearms as the Vyger you need technical why can't even a good tonearm/cartridge combination in the bass frequency range when in other frequency range theeeeLT are better than pivoted ones. From mid-bass down the LT can't do it with the same aplomb and quality level than a good cartridge/pivoted combination.

Other issue with your Viger experiences is that almost always you were listening through tube electronics and mainly through horn speakers and even when you experienced with dynamic speakers and SS amp the system owner uses a tube phono stage. Always high colored kind of sound, again nothing wrong with that.

Btw, you posted:

"  with most linear trackers, there is insufficient bass, authority and weight as compared to pivots. It is only with Vyger and CS Port that I hear bass and weight, and this could be a function of the platter, the air pressure, or both. "

Yes, air pressure is critical but everything the same TT platter is only one part of the whole TT design and extremely difficult to aisle it.

You posted that an owner of two MS8000 changed it for two Viger but those MS TT are almost reference of nothing due that are a faulty design but very good looking units .

You blog is named: Zero Distortion  and I applaud your heavy efforts through several years to post all what it's in the blog and you did it and do very detailed with excellent photos and very good looking room/systems choosed where many of us can learn about audio items that some of us ( like  me ) never knew of it. Congratulations with that, it's perfect blog well nothing is perfect and I would like that sooner or latter your experiences can honor your blog name.

bonzo, I think that try that " things " been around an equilibrium is really the name of the game because " extremes " means more and more less an almost nothing.

Equilibrium between objectivity and subjectivity should works better/best for any one of us, just an opinion.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

@bonzo75  : That gentlemasn with the MS 8000's I think had the terrible 3012 tonearms on it, so that Viger like it is not something that could prove Vyger superiority.

You can be sure that the REGA RP-10 is superior and everything the same could outperform the Vyger.

It's not weird that in your bolg system and along the " top " audiophiles ( ? ? ) in wbf the RP-10 just does not appears and I think is because first its price tag is not over 50K and second because it does not in sale by kilogram price as the Vyger or As-200 or Clearaudio or AF 1 and the like.and third  it does not shines as gold/silver and the friends of the owners can't say: WOW when look the REGA instead the " heaVY METAL " THEY ARE ACCUSTOM TO.

Maybe could be another reasons that you could think justify that kind of " audiophiles " attitude.

Look, in the MF review of the SAT XD 1 TT with a price tag over 280K and with almost same cartridges on both this is what MF said about the Rega RP 10  with its humble price tag of only . 6K  ! !   

" The XD1 shares some sonic characteristics with Rega's revolutionary RP 10 turntable: ultrafast, clean transients throughout the audible frequency range; tight, fast bass; revealing midrange transparency; and overall sonic stability and focus. All these characteristics result, apparently, from careful attention paid to structural rigidity and the removal or prevention of unwanted vibrational energy. "

I know very well the RP10 and could be a challenge for any of those " heavy metal " ones that you and your audio friends touted so much.

What do you think about?

R.

Hi everyone,

following up on the dava. I got my dava ref with tube power supply .

my set up now has 3 arms on 2 tables 

1. dava ref on Durand tosca arm on nvs ref turntable 

2. ortofon Anna diamond on kuzma 4 point 11” with Kondo silver wiring 

3. Lyra atlas etna sl on discovery rs toneram on krono pro turntable with Kubala sosna realization cabling .

the dava and Lyra are connected to the current amplification mode of my ch precision p1 with x1, the ortofon is connected to the voltage amplification mm/mc input of the ch.

my impressions after listening for a short period 

the Lyra , Kronos is the best with regard to soundstage , details , impact , micro and macrodynamics. Give it a score of 9.5 music soars and is big.

the dava , Durand nvs and the ortofon kuzma nvs score around 8. Both sound very diff… very musical both of them … will give hrs of listening pleasure but lack the air space and impact of the Kronos.

dava has been burning in and fortunately I have zero noise issues with it .

Does anyone have any recommendations on loading for the ortofon Anna diamond , and also any thoughts on a step up transformer… 

The low outputs and low impedence of the Lyra and dava work great with the current amplification in the ch precision 

Dear @newtoncr  : Well I think that you have the Anna diamond Ortofon recomendation that's higher than 10ohm and the cartridge it self is not sensitive ( as any LOMC cartridge ) to impedance changes if sounds different changing the impedance then that " problem " comes by the phono stage design.

A SUT goes totally against the Ortofon or any other LOMC and you don't need that instead the direct CH high gain stage be changed not only for the SUT but those additional input/output/solder joints and IC cables where the cartridge signal mus pass through and don't forget the SUT internal construction/wire.

If I was you I just forgeret about the SUT. Obviously is up to you but there is no active/sut combination that can outperforms your CH active high gain stage.

R.

@rauliruegas Be careful, there are a bunch of folk who believe that the ’terrible 3012’ tonearm is the ne plus ultra! These very same folk will come and bash you at every chance they get.

I’m with you, the 3012 is a great tonearm, if you are oblivious to bearing chatter, LOL.

Bonzo, your zeal for traveling all over Europe to audition these very eccentric systems and then to try to describe what you heard is commendable and makes fun reading, if I’ve even heard of the gear in the first place. In the photos, where did you hear Maggies backed up against glass doors? Even with the makeshift baffle that can’t be good. Anyway, now I feel normal compared to some of those guys. Which is therapeutic.

By the way, Bonzo, it would be helpful on your blog if you would define the terms you use to describe sound quality, because obviously the analysis is totally subjective, so one needs to know as much as is possible what is in your mind when you use a particular term.  For one example, what is "flow"?  If you publish a glossary of adjectives and then stick to your own definitions when writing up a system, eventually the reader can build a better conception of how one system differs from another.

@newtoncr , I have an MC Diamond and it definitely sounds better with current mode amplification which you have in your CH. SUTs are a waste of time when you have a phono stage like the CH. Loading does not matter in current mode. I also have the Lyra Atlas SL which in my system I prefer to the MC Diamond. A cartridge which you might find very enjoyable with your phono stage is the MSL Signature Platinum. It has a little more bloom than the Atlas and a lot more gain. I think the Atlas is more accurate but accuracy is not everyone's gig. ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````1 

Dear @mijostyn  : " SUTs are a waste of time when you have a phono stage like the CH. "

You are rigth, any SUT in that CH only helps to degrade in several ways the senssible and high vauable MUSIC cartridge signal.  It has no sense to do it.

@newtoncr  , maybe the Ortofon  in other tonearm could performs a little better, you can try an interchange between the Anna and the  Dava tonearms.

@mijostyn  in the CH you can connect 3 LOMC cartridges all stages active high gain: two of them in current mode and the other stage voltge one.

R.

@mijostyn i have to set up the gain at 70db for the voltage stage in the ch . I currently have the loading at 100 ohms … it sounds similar to the current input but for a lower loudness and minimal noise which u can hear with ur ears on the speakers (nothing 2 feet away). Never heard the msl signature platinum … I am curious to hear .

@rauliruegas the ortofon sounds better on the kuzma than the tosca in my system . Faster, cleaner and more impactful. The tosca is as they say “musical “ less dynamic. 

The Kronos discovery rs tonearm is everything you would need , fast , accurate , dynamic (micro and macro ) and musical . The atlas etna sl on it through the ch using Kubala realization interconnect sounds like good master tape playing in an optimized tweaked reel playback system . I am getting the 4 box ch p1 set up later in April , excited to hear what that offers .

so I understand that an sut other than adding noise is not going to augment the sound .

thanks to everyone for your inputs

@newtoncr   100 ohms is rigth  for the Anna. It's a little weird that in its site the Tosca picture tonearm is with the Ortofon Anna mounted.

Kuzma and the Tosca are way different tonearm designs and both very good tonearms and for those differences ( including its. EL. ) have different  developed "tonal color " but I can see that the Anna shows not be " confortable " with either tonearms due that graded as and 8 on quality performance.

Anyway, each one of us has a little different MUSIC reproduction targets and different kind of priorities.

R.

@newtoncr   : Maybe re-start from zero the cartridge/tonearm set up and with different alignment. A cleaning every connector: pin connectors and IC cables input/output connectors sometimes could help to improve quality performance.

R.

@lewm  sorry for the delayed response.

i am not a regular here, mainly because of the user interface. Regarding your points addressed to me: I have heard Maggie many times, the glass door pic was only in relation to a vyger system as in that article I covered vyger. I think Maggies are high value. I was a panel lover first, liking electrostats and analysis audio and apogee, and you were on my “hit list” as I wanted to listen to soundlabs with an OTL. Unfortunately too many targets and I haven’t made it across so far. 
 

horns was my other love, and I moved completely from panels to horns when I realised dual front loaded horns could do the midbass of well set up apogee grands, with all their might and with low watt SET magic.
 

on how do I evaluate sound? There were reference components and recordings I had on the site which I need to update, with the background that before pandemic I was doing almost 50 classical concerts a year across 6 halls in London before cloacal was primarily a rock guy so essentially what I like is to suit classical reproduction.

 There was a time when I used to like the gear creating soundstage, bass, etc, but since 2018 I have been focused on transparency to recordings, which means the gear should reflect the stage on the recording and the venue ambience should change with the recording. However for this quality original LPs are required which are not easy to access given the rarity and expense. 
 

flow is self explanatory to those who have heard it. It is a continuity of music, from note to note which you will hear with good analog compared to bad digital, or good valves compared to bad SS (please allow me these strawman generalisations to keep explanation simple). The opposite of flow is a stop start you hear after every note.

i like coherence, from top to bottom with linearity through the midbass, and also coherence off stage. Tone, timbre, dynamic range (the low to high distance traveled off a note). I like inflections and contrast…contrast of dynamics, of tone, inflections for example many notes in a violin as compared to just glossing over. Attack of the piano with the body of the note. Breathing of the bass section of the orchestra. Energy. All this should play without strain. 
 

i have liked highs in vintage speakers as well as in TAD ET703 and 4003, I have liked the nuance of beryllium horn drivers and disliked beryllium cone drivers, like paper horn drivers, ribbon drivers, electrostatic drivers, Altec woofers, Vyger TT which is a linear tracker with red sparrow cartridge, Dava, Lampi dac, many SETs, like to tube roll to optimise, blah blah. End game is Oistrakh, Heifetz, Kogan, Annie Fischer, Szell, Fricsay, Reiner, Jochum, Klemperer, Rostropovich, Hoelscher, and many others on decca, RCA, EMI, and some not so popular labels and get realism from them. 
 

i  am writing on the mobile so might have missed a few things

Thanks for taking the time. Taken by itself, the meaning of “flow” as you use it is not “self evident”. Now you’ve defined it, I get it. Harry Pearson coined the term “continuousness”, which I think is similar in definition if not identical.

Personally I think it’s evident when heard. A friend of mine, when he put his optimised tape on next to his currently basic TT set up (waiting upgrade) he texted me he now gets what I mean by flow. Once he optimises his TT set up he should get it there as well. 
 

it’s very evident during compares, especially good tube gear Vs SS. 

I received my DaVa and directly sent it to my friend in NL for a compare, as he has my favourite analog set up, the vyger with red sparrow. It runs through Thrax mk2 and Thomas Mayer phonos into Trafomatic Elysium amps into Cessaro zetas. He also has Techdas AF3 premium with 4 arms and Dohmann mk2 with Graham elite and Grado epoch 3.

i well visit him shortly to listen for myself after which it will travel to one of my favourite set ups, the Altec 817 with Misho Myronov’s audio antiquary electronics. I love it currently with a Garrard and SPU, so it will be interesting to see what happens with the Dava. 
 

Anyway, my Dutch friend’s reaction after setting up the Dava. Less than two hours, still getting it right: “This is the best cartridge I have ever heard!
Excellent tone, crazy detail and unbelievable dynamic !!”

he has had many and still does for direct compare vdh master signature, Grand Cru, Opus, Vyger red sparrow, Grado Epoch 3, etc

further comments from him: 

“It has all the good things of all great carts in to one cart.
And without the negative things (so far).
I mean it has even more detail as the best VdH but without the edginess. It has the dynamics of the best carts but more. It’s crazy..
It has the tone of the red sparrow but even more bloom and speed.”

the next day he decided to buy it. 

@bonzo75 

that’s fantastic,

can’t wait to hear what u think of it , when u hear it.

Here are some videos with the Dava - starting with some female vocals, but more than the usual audiophile stuff 

https://youtu.be/A3bblb0zRms?feature=shared

Male vocals 

https://youtu.be/iYgACQ2e34E?feature=shared

Vocal Jazz 

https://youtu.be/qaSmoFM1ytc?feature=shared

If Carmen on vocals is not sufficient, here it is on violin

https://youtu.be/d1qsjLJvu9c?feature=shared