Emotiva or Anthem or Something Else?

Not the amps, but the processors. It’s been a very long time, but after my Theta Casanova the Onkyo and Emotiva were not even close to natural sounding. Really thin, AM radio kind of digital presentation.

I ended up with Oppo and then Anthem for a variety of reasons.

I will say that if it still sounds the same it is super easy to tell the difference. I mean, you don’t have to listen to me, listen for yourself.

If you are buying used, 100% stick with Anthem.  If you are buying new, I would still recommend the Anthem but I probably don't have a very good idea of what the Emotivas sound like anymore.

Absolutely Anthem all the way.  Great reliability, room correction, and sound.  Emotiva has had issues with their processors, and I frankly wouldn’t trust them especially when there’s Anthem as an option.  If 2-channel is important you should incorporate a good stereo integrated using the front L/R preamp outputs on the Anthem.  No AVR can compete with a good stereo integrated.  Period. 

Thanks.  Although I have read a bunch of reviews of people talking about issues with the software on the Anthem products too.  

How would I incorporate a separate 2 channel system via the Preamp outputs on the Anthem?  I was actually trying to figure out how I could do this but wasn't sure if it was a thing.  I almost feel like I need two systems.  A 2.1 system for music and a larger system for movies and such.

I have exactly that system. Mrx 520 to Luxman 507.  Works great.

I almost feel like I need two systems.

Absolutely no, you don’t. You can seamlessly integrate a HT system and solely-functioning 2-channel system in one and change between the two with the push of one button.  All you do is hook the front 2 L/R preamp outs from your Anthem to the  stereo integrated and you’re all done.  Please ask if you need more details, cause this is absolutely doable and easy.

d 

That sounds interesting. Would you mind giving me more detail on how that could work? Maybe with some specific components of your choosing? I’m getting all new gear except for the speakers so open to suggestions. I do currently have all of the speakers and one thing that needs to be factored in is that I have four self powered sub woofers that would be shared between the two speaker configurations. And would I need a speaker switch box?

More thinking and maybe I understand...

Are you saying I could take the Receiver and wire up all of the speakers to the out puts on the Receiver except for the Front Left and Right. For those channels I would connect from the Preamp Out Front Left and Front Right on the back of the receiver to a completely separate two channel amp. That amp would then power just those two speakers. So the end result would be that I would not be using the Front Left and Right channel amps on the receiver. In that case would I even need an integrated amp for those two speakers? Seems like I could just use a stereo power amp and control the volume from the Receiver.  What might be necessary is for the receiver to have some sort of speaker configuration profile so that I could turn off all of the speakers except for the Front Left and Right Pre-Out as well as the SubWoofers.  The subs would be used for both speaker configurations.  I think the Anthem has something like that.

Seems like I could just use a stereo power amp and control the volume from the Receiver.

NO!!! The only thing worse than an AVR’s amps is its preamp section, and a good preamp is absolutely crucial to getting good sound. That’s why I recommended an integrated stereo amp because then you’re completely replacing the AVR for critical 2-channel listening. What I’d recommend is minimizing your expense on an AVR that has front L/R preouts and maximize $$$ toward a good integrated stereo amp. Here’s the AVR I’d buy because it’ll do everything you need for HT processing and powering your center/surround speakers…

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamrxa780bl-rb/yamaha-rx-a780-7.2-ch-x-95-watts-a/v-receiver/1.html

What are your speakers, what amp/pre/AVR do you have now, and what improvements are you looking for and what sound characteristics are most important to you? With this info we can start talking about stereo integrated options that would be worth exploring further. And yes, you have the correct idea that you’d use the front L/R preouts from the AVR into the integrated stereo amp, and if the integrated has a HT bypass function you literally push one button to switch between HT and stereo, and when in stereo the AVR is completely out of the system, which is what you want.  It’s a beautiful thing really, because you literally have the best of both worlds in one system.  I did this for years until I finally got my own dedicated listening room, and it was a great way to go.  Goodonya for putting in the effort to research this option, because it will serve you well!

Thanks again. Its a good thing I’m asking! What I currently have is as follows:

Receiver: Pioneer VSX 822. (I was going to get rid of this)

Speakers are:

Warfedale Diamond 9.0 and 9.1 for the rear L/R and Front L/R

1 x Martin Logan Motion SLM XL for the center channel

4 x Martin Logan ML 67i in the ceiling

4 x 10" Self powered Sub Woofers that I built. All of them are in the walls and are 10" because that is all I could fit in the walls. They are in their own 1 cu ft enclosures and each one is powered by a dedicated DSP enabled amp.

I also have an old pair of Polk Monitor 5 Jr + speakers that I bought new when I was in High School in the 80’s. I was actually never really all that happy with how they sounded. I always thought that my friends Infinity RS 3000 sounded better. But I’ve had them for years. May tweak them a bit. When I was in college one of my friends got an NAD Amp and a pair of Rogers speakers that sounded really spectacular.

I’ve been considering several options. One is an NAD receiver and then adding on an NAD two channel power amp. That set up would be an NADT778 + an NAD C 275BEE. I would also need an NAD C268 to power one pair of the ceiling speakers as the NAD doesnt have 4 powered channels.

What is tricky is that I want to use the subs for both the stereo listening as well as the home theater listening.

I’ve been considering several options. One is an NAD receiver and then adding on an NAD two channel power amp. That set up would be an NADT778 + an NAD C 275BEE. I would also need an NAD C268 to power one pair of the ceiling speakers as the NAD doesnt have 4 powered channels.…What is tricky is that I want to use the subs for both the stereo listening as well as the home theater listening.

No.  Just, no.  Listen to me — get a decent AVR like Yamaha and then add a really good stereo integrated.  You’re going down a bad path.  NAD may be convenient but is not your friend.  Buy a Yammy AVR and a great integrated from Hegel, Pass, Yamaha, Ayre, etc. and you’ll be MUCH better off.  Why the fixation with NAD?  

NAD is just one possibility. I’ve heard NAD amps in the past and I was impressed by the sound quality. But open to others.

Similarly, I heard an Anthem 740 at a local shop and it sounded pretty good too.

In the set up you are describing would I have two different pairs of front speakers?

Is it possible to incorporate the subs into the stereo configuration? What I’m really looking to do is a 2.1 set up for music listening. It looks like the Hegel Integrated Amp has line out so thats one way it could work, however how could I have the subs as part of the home theater configuration also?

In the set up you are describing would I have two different pairs of front speakers?

No.  But the only thing hooked up to your front L/R speakers would be the integrated amp.  You ask a great question about how to incorporate subs, and I honestly haven’t figured that out but maybe someone else here has a suggestion.  I would, however, recommend doing a 2.2 stereo system instead of 2.1 if you can — 2 subs much better than one.

Questions:

1.) In your suggested set up, when we are watching a movie is the integrated amp powering the two front channel speakers?

2.) When I am listening to the two channel configuration I assume that I am controlling the volume using the volume control on the stereo amp?

3.) For integration of the Subs... yes, I am attempting a 2.2 configuration with two subwoofers.  The subwoofers are self powered and I can set crossover points and filters.   If the stereo integrated amp as a line out L/R then I should be able to plug those subs into the integrated amp and then have a 2.2 system... correct?  For example take this one....

To answer both your two questions, yes and yes.  But I’m sorry, I can’t answer your question about integrating the subs for both stereo and HT applications.  I just can’t wrap my head around that one, but I’d absolutely configure 2 subs to work in my 2-channel setup cause the benefits are palpable.  Full stop.  How you can get the subs to also work in an HT application?  I’m at a loss and so sorry I have no answer for you there. 

Check out Parasound integrated amps for subwoofers pass-through. 

Yes, I stumbled across their Halo Preamp.  It looks like its set up explicitly to address what I am attempting to do.

I also found this list...

@soix I'm looking around to set up a system like you suggested.  There are actually lots of intersting options as well as some deals on what I think are good quality 2 channel integrated amps. For example, there is a Parasound Halo Integrated Amp for sale near me and there are some good deals on Yamaha AS2200's.  I have a question though about getting an Integrated Amp vs just a power amp.  Based on my research as well as our conversation above, it seems like in both HiFi listening mode and HomeTheater Listening Mode you are using the volume knob on the Home Theater Receiver to control the volume that the Front Channel Amp is producing.  If that is the case then what is the point in getting an integrated amp for the HiFi speakers?  Why not get a power amp?  Also, if the volume is being controlled by the Home Theater Receiver then wouldn't that mean that the less than ideal Receiver Pre-Amp is compromising the HiFi Stereo sound quality?

No!!!  When listening to 2-channel audio the AVR is completely out of the signal path.  Your front L/R preouts from the AVR go to an input (or HT Bypass) on the stereo integrated and you choose that input when listening to HT.  You need an integrated or separate pre/amp because you do not want the AVR controlling the volume or in any part of the 2-channel signal chain.  To be clear, for 2-channel listening the AVR is not anywhere in the signal path.  Sorry if I’ve been unclear. 

So I’ve been doing some shopping based on @soix suggestions and here is what I have come up with. Note that my set up will have ceiling mounted front and rear speakers so I need a 4 speaker Atmos system. All of these systems combine a HT with an integrated amp. I’m attempting to stick with the same brand for both because a mix and match systems bother me. (I know its not rational, I’m not perfect). Colors and brand have to match... its just a requirement. I’m a product designer and a very visual person. I see all of the details. Another requirement is that I get a good deal on at least one of the components. I think I can accomplish that (with the exception of the Emotiva pair). I’m shopping online audio retail as well as online classifieds. All of these are between $4000 and $5000. All of these will using a Audiolab 6000N streaming player pulling from Amazon HD Music. I’ll be plugging the 6000N into the Integrated Amp so that for stereo listening the HT Receiver is out of the loop.

Use case is the occasional full home theater movie watching experience and also listening to all types of music at a variety of volumes. I listen to everything from 80’s metal to Opera and Jazz. I want to hear detail in the music and I want the system to be able to respond to what ever the music requires while also give incredible sound stage. I’ve heard enough systems that when you are listneing to them its like the singer is in the room.... or you can almost see (with your ears) the spot where the musician is standing on the stage. I want to try to achieve that.

Here is what I am looking at... will any of these get me there?

Option 1 NAD, T778 AV Receiver, C388 Integrated Amp, C268 Power Amp for the rear atmos. I’m looking at NAD because I have friends that have had NAD systems and I was really impressed with the sound quality. Plus I’m nostalgic for NAD because I used to look at them back at in the 80’s when I was a teen.

Option 2 - Yamaha RX-A2080 HT Receiver, A-S2200 Integrated amp. These are from the Yamaha "Aventage" line and so are supposed to be their good stuff. @soix says that he thinks they have surprising good soundstage. Youtube reviews of some of the Yamaha stuff seems to suggest that the sound is somewhat "neutral" but detailed.

Option 3 - Marantz Cinema 50 HT Receiver, Marantz Mod 30 Integrated Amp. A bit more expensive than the Options 1 and 2. The Cinema 50 is loaded with features and supposedly has been built to have good sound. Added bonus is 4 pre-outs for 4 seperate subwoofers. (yes I have 4 subwoofers). Also, the Mod 30 got a really good review from a youtube reviewer. He claims it sounds as good as his McIntosh and now he compares everything to the Mod 30. Only thing is that its a Class D amp... always thought that my dedicated stereo amp should be Class A or A/B.

Option 4 - Emotiva RMC-1L Processor + XPA-9 Gen3 Amp. This is the most expensive option. I’m concerned that the Emotiva stuff has been built more for a big home theater experience than high quality music listening. The system I buy has to do both. I do like how the Emotive product line has been put together and the RMC-1L has all of the features to make it a great foundation to a system... I just get the impression it’s more intended to be used to watch Marvel movies and don’t watch that kind of stuff.

Option 5 - The budget system. Onkyo TX-RZ50 + Parasound Hint 6 Integrated Amp. This is the least expensive option. I’m also the least excited by it. I bought Onkyo when I was in high school and so I’ve already been there. However the RZ-50 is supposed to offer a very "exciting" HT experience by way of how its very "punchy". Its also not very expensive. I’m not too familiar with Parasound except I know they have been around for a really long time and they are made here in the SF Bay area. The Hint 6 also has HT by-pass mode, which means its been specifically equipped to be attach to a HT system and act as a 2 channel amp which can contribute to a HT session or work on its own to power a stereo listening session. Only issue is that I have no idea how it sounds.

Option X - Is there another option I should look at?

Final thought. I’m getting sick of listening to these systems in these shops because they alway use source material thats probably better than I will have. Its seems like a lot of people are buying these rigs and then evaluating them at home and then potentially returning them or selling them if they are not satisfied. Is that the case?

Kind of a long post... but would love to hear comments if any of you have experience with any of this equipment. The room where this stuff will go is almost done so I’ll be pulling the trigger in the next few weeks.

Option 2 on steroids. You’ll be thrilled. I think you nailed it. Here’s a great deal on a 2080 in case you’re interested…

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamrxa2080bl-rb/yamaha-rx-a2080-9.2-ch-x-140-watts-a/v-receiver/1.html

If it saves you $$$ the Hint 6 or something like this Hegel H190 would also work great…

https://tmraudio.com/components/integrated-amplifiers/hegel-h190-stereo-integrated-amplifier-dac-h-190-d-a-converter-remote/

If it’s me, I wait for an AS2200 or AS1100 to come up on accessories4less.com, but you’ll be THRILLED with any of the above options.  Just take your pick. 

@melchionda I recently purchased an Anthem MRK 540 8K...Please hear me out.

The Anthem has far exceeded my expectations as I was considering an Onkyo RZ50 etc however I have a 5.2 room that really cannot accept much more so I did not need the additional channel inputs. The Anthem actually does music incredibly well to my surprise and keep in mind the power rating for the Anthem are WPC all main channels driven not just 2 (in my case 5 channels all getting killer 100 watts). Now for the elephant in the room software set up issues,yes I too struggled with the setup because the instructions are not clear ,long story short run Chromecast or airplay first and your unit will connect if wireless,In a wired setup you will have not problems. And my unit makes ZERO fan noise even after an afternoon of big boom movies.I used the 540 8K for the first week without implementing the ARC Genesis room correction and was impressed with the unit out of the box.When I ran the ARC room correction OMG what a difference everything opened up and it made full use of the power on tap to its fullest. (ARC does give the bass a leaner presentation but simply increase the sub(s) gain by a tad in my case).

I’d suggest my units big brother(s) in your case.Buy it from Crutchfield (don’t like send it back Hassle free) try the anthem alone without any additional amps first. I suspect you’ll find you will not need any additional amplification .I cannot crank my MRX 540 8k beyond 35% without discomfort the detail,bass slam in movies & music its all there you cannot do better than an Anthem witout spending crazy money,it truly is a complete package and all that!

owned an Anthem AVM60 and wanted to step up to higher speaker count. i had a 7.1.4 Home Theater system and wanted to step up to 9.3.6.

2 years ago, i decided to go all in and purchase a Trinnov Altitude 16. it does not use off the shelf chip sets that become obsolete. it’s completely software based. how many HT processors will you buy? if you buy a Trinnov you will be done. forever. amazing customer service and support. top level performance.

https://www.trinnov.com/en/products/altitude-sup-16-sup/

@mikelavigne If you don't mind me asking how much did the Trinnov cost ?

@balooo2

when i purchased mine the list price was $16,995. right now i think it’s $18,500 list price. likely your dealer would work with you some on the price, you can’t buy it on line from a big box store.

the support is phenomenal. once you install the Trinnov in your system and connect it to your network it’s automatically connected to the Tinnov service network and they will assist you in the set-up and trouble shoot any issues on line.

here is a used one listed for sale....

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649920084-trinnov-altitude-16-4-home-theater-processor-20-channels/

if you want to know anything about Trinnov here is a thread on AVS where you can get any question answered.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/trinnov-altitude.1516103/page-1123#post-62244596

here are some pictures of my Home Theater room from 2 years ago when my -3- Funk Audio 18.0 subs arrived....

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-funk-audio-thread.1682418/page-95#post-60708790

i’m mainly a 2 channel guy.....you can see my 2 channel system on my detail link with my name.....and that will show you how serious i am about great sound. the Trinnov delivers.....GREAT SOUND.

Latest thought after doing more reading reviews...

Option 1 - NAD is out.  I just dont see their feature set being comparable and I'm not seeing any reviews of anyone saying that the products I'm considering are all that amazing.

Option 2 - Yamaha 20280 receiver is the front runner.  I'd like to find a better deal on the integrated amp though.  Also, as much as I've seen good reviews I have yet to see one that says its amazing.

Option 3 - Marantz Still in the running but not by much.  I really want an A/B amp and the Marantz is class D

Option 4 - Emotiva  - Out

Option 5 - Onkyo is out.  I think I can find the Yamaha 2080 for equal to or less than the Onkyo and the Yamaha is better

Option X - Now considering a Rotel RB-1592 MKII as the integrated amp.  I saw a review on Youtube by a guy who reviews a ton of stuff and he really liked it.  He thought that it was as good as the Yamaha A-S3200... while being the same price as the 2200.

Here’s an excellent deal on one of the new Yammy AVRs if it has enough power for you…

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamrxa2a-rb/yamaha-rx-a2a-7.2-ch-x-100-watts-a/v-receiver/1.html

That would be a refurb unit.  NOT clearly called out in the website listing.

@mikelavigne - thanks for the tip on the Trinnov.  I love the idea but it’s quite a bit more than I want to spend.  Even if it could be upgraded into the future I’m not ready to commit to that level of cost.  Very cool product though

@balooo2 - I was really into the Anthem stuff and listened to one at a local shop in 2 channel mode.  It sounded amazing. I’ve just been put off by all of the stuff I’ve read online about the bugs and software issues. 

@melchionda I hear you loud and clear as I had the same concerns but I can tell you the recent updates have addressed the issues. If you'll notice many of the problems are likely posted 3+ months ago. My unit is as stable as can be in all regards. Hope you find the sweet spot you are looking for!

Thanks @balooo2.  You are not making this easier!  LOL!  It's hard to figure out what to do and I'm looking for reasons to take these off the list.

Looking at an Anthem? Keep the Emo out of your thought process. 
 

 I’m not one with theatre stuff, I’m strictly a 2 ch for music and movies. 
 

Anthem is great, 

whatmabout the,McCormack map-1 or similar, is that a multi channel ?

I wish I,could say,more, just steer,clear of thatmEmo stuff T may,last a couple years, but service, warranty is horrendous, heard the stories bout a new cd, or receiver, something goes wrong, you send in, they send you a faulty used or returned replacement. 
 

use caution.

also, you will need,some wrinkle bag n the amp dept, most receivers are bland and can’t handle the output you may want, don’t clip her.

Another Anthem fan here. I'm on my 2nd 2 ch integrated and wouldn't trade it for anything.

I pulled the trigger on a Yamaha 2080 to take care of the home theater duties.  Still need to pick the integrated amp to do the two channel work.  I’m now considering either the Yamaha A-S2200 or the Rotel 1592 mkii.  I’m looking for an amp that will create a wide sound stage but also have lots of detail.   A few of the Yamaha reviews I’ve seen/read seem to indicate that the 2200 sound stage isn’t so great but that it’s got a lot of detail.  Also, it’s just an amp, (no DAC) and I like that because I plan to use a dedicated DAC for two channel.  It’s also much better looking than the Rotel.  Any thoughts on the comparison of those two?

This Hegel H190 has both excellent detail and soundstage so might be worth a look…

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649941652-hegel-h190/
 

That said, I don’t think you can go wrong with the Yammy either.