Anyone had a chance to try out the Emotiva amplifiers and compare them to some of the more well known brands? How are the sound quality of the amps and how do they compare to other brands? Are they significantly worse or by some slight margin? Please let me know as I'm very interested in their products! Thank you!
I understand your concern as well. But you may be surprise on how many dealers and manufacturers recommend removing the ground pin because of a ground loop causing noise in your system. If you don't, you would not be able to enjoy your music at all because of the "humb". Of course, you are not doing it on purpose, but you have to. Take a look at PS Audio power cables. They are designed with a removable ground pin for those purposes. So, if the ground pin is remove under those conditions, the insurance company will not cover because a ground ping was removed from the system? I doubt it. I remember when I had the Aragon stage one processor along with the matching 3005 power amp connected with a power subwoofer in the same power strip. I had to remove one ground pin from the preamp or power amp in order to avoid ground loops because they were all grounded.
Now, in regards to the polarity, I read your comments more carefully and understood better what you are trying to say. But, remember that back on the 80's when the electric companies started to replace the old AC socket with the new three prong, many were installed the wrong way by people who never had a background as electricians. Therefore, I always check my polarity as a rule every time I move from one apartment to another just in case. You may be surprise how many were installed the wrong way.
Yes, many electronics companies do not design their products to have the ground pin, and that is fine. The point is not whether or not the manufacturer includes one. They follow the various laws and safety regulations or else their products would not be sold here.
The point is when a ground pin has been designed with a component. It is there for a reason. If you remove it you are removing a safety component that the manufacturer has put there for a reason, whether it be UA standards, consumer laws or safety regulations. And insurance love to find excuses to exclude claims. Tampering with ground pins would make an insurance claims manager giddy.
Your polarity comment puzzles me. I understood fully what you said the first time, and this time, what I was saying is having reversed polarity is almost unheard of, and not something that needs to be checked out unless there are symptoms. Many home owners wouldn't have the slightest idea or equipment to inspect for polarity. But I suppose it would do no harm if they know what they are doing and don't shock themselves.
My friend, I guess you totally misunderstand what I said. If what you said would've been true, about removing the ground pin and having problems with the insurance, then how come most electronics from many respected manufactures DO NOT add or employ their ground ping in their audio systems? Like I mentioned before; take a look at some of the Marantz processors as well as their power amps and home theater receivers. They all come with the positive and negative polarity only, no grounds. Even my Sony S790 blu-ray player, a simple player that I use mostly for movies, does not come with the ground pin. And if that would've been a safety issue, how come most appliances around the house do not comes with the ground pin such as lamps, toasters, cell phone chargers, etc. And by the way, I never mentioned anything about reversing the AC polarity. In the contrary, what I recommended was to make sure you had the right polarity, the small pin(+) positive and the large (-)the negative. And by the way, I also have my background in electronics as an audio/video technician. I went to TCI School in N.Y. City, back in the 90's. Furthermore, I worked for a mayor company repairing and replacing flat panel TV's for Circuit City and Best Buys. I also design my own speakers. So, the advised that I am giving you does not comes from an amateur.
Removing the ground pin is a safety hazard! Try collecting on an insurance policy if it's found out your electronics all had their ground connections tampered with. Also, as an electrician, I've never heard of someone having their AC line polarity reversed. I suppose if some DIYer has added some plugs the wrong way it's possible, but that would be pretty rare.
Henry, in your last paragraph you forget that all people do not have the same skill in listening, the same hearing, the same preferences or the same room acoustics. But at the end of the day, Emotiva made some compromises to bring their products to market, and it shows. Sure their amps can sound better than an AVR, but is that saying much?
I have been an audiophile since I was 15 and today am 49. And, for all audiophiles out there, I can assure you 90% that the problem is not the emotiva amps or any amp. It is basically the way the whole system is connected. You see if you really want to get that sweet, effortless, delicate sound, without listening to the electronics or transistors, but the music itself, you have to follow very simple rules.
When you make connections from one component to another, let's say from your source to the preamp and from the preamp to the power amp; you have to make sure that all the components are NOT grounded, if the signal is unbalanced. In other words, if you send an unbalanced signal from your CD player with regular RCA unbalanced cables to a grounded preamp or amplifier, the ground from those components will make the entire system sound like crap. I learned that the hard way. I returned so many nice equipment in the past due to poor quality sound until I found out what was causing the problem. You see, grounds makes your system noisy if you use unbalanced signal. Not only will add noise, but static and an overall up front presentation that will cause fatigue within minutes. But, if you remove the ground pins from each component by using a simple groundless adapter, your whole system will sound sweet, delicate and natural. You'll hear only the music. Now, on the other hand, if you have a balanced signal coming from your source, connected to a balanced preamp and power amp as well, then you can leave everything grounded. And of course you will get that sweet balanced sound again.
So, again, if are going to go with a balanced signal, keep everything grounded. But, if your have an unbalanced signal coming from your source, make sure you remove all the grounds from each component. If you notice, most manufacturers like Marantz and even Emotiva are not adding the ground pin on their equipment any more. Take a look at their new line of preamp/processors, DAC's and amplifiers and notice that most of them are not grounded, even though they do provide balanced input and balanced output. For example, emotiva latest DAC(Stealth DC-1) is ungrounded compare to the XDA-2. Same with the XPA-2 amplifier.
Another important factor, make sure you have right polarity on your AC line. The large ping on the AC outlet should always be the NEG, and the small, the POS. And, always have a 20 amp AC line dedicated to your audio system only. DO NOT connect anything else to it. For example, if you connect your router, modem or any other device, it will cause interference and add noise to the line and into your system because they all have annoying transformers inside. Even a simple table lamp, with a florescent light bulb, will add noise to the AC line if it's connected to your system AC outlet. Only connect your source, preamp and power amp to it, and of course, ungrounded.
Another device that makes your system sound cold and lifeless are AC power conditioners. I have tried several of them through the years and every time I buy one I end up returning the unit. For some reason they seem to remove all the air from the music. Personally, I don't like them, even though they do protect your equipment from voltage spikes and damages.
Anyway, going back to the connections, I prefer to start with an unbalanced signal, ungrounded all the way to the end. Why? Simply because when the signal finally reach the speakers; you end up with a positive and negative cable only without a ground. So, it makes more sense to me to keep everything unbalanced, ungrounded from the beginning.
Therefore, when people talk about Emotiva poor sound quality compare to other high end brands while others find them very sweet sounding, delicate and powerful, to me it all comes down to the connections or the setup.. And the same principal applies to any amp. --HR
I think the UPA 1's are very fine amplifiers (Think about it, $600 for two monoblocks - 350 watts 4 ohms) and they do sound very very good with my Magneplanar MG 1 imp. As good as my Conrad Johnson MF 2300 A amp? ( $3,500 new) no, not quite as warm and musical but get real will ya? The Emotiva is easily 85% of the CJ sound.
I also understand that the XPA-2 sounds better than the XPA-3 (and the XPA-1 better than the XPA-2).
Anyway, the A21 is definitely well-regarded and would be high on my list of budget amps (relatively speaking, of course). I've always been a fan of MOSFET's which seem to me to have some of the liquidity of tubes. I've also heard that the HCA-1500 is not that far from the A21.
I had the XPA-3 for about 3 years and experienced what others have mentioned with the Enotiva house sound being somewhat forward and bright. In fact, I got actual sibilance on some recordings. I compared a Parasound A21 in the same system with the same tracks at the same volume, and the A21 produced no sibilance and was superior at all frequencies.
I'd say Emotiva amps do not blend well with all speakers and are decent for the money, but at 4-900 that's not saying much. I ended up selling the Emo amp. The XPA may be a different animal though still somewhat bright with the wrong speakers.
Josh358..A good alternative if one's on a budget is buy a used Parasound HCA-1500 amp. You can pick one up for about $700.00 or $800.00. I bought one new years ago at 50% off from Audio Advisor on a discontinued close out sale. Very musical and powerful. Another good amp to buy used which is much more musical and refined over the Emotiva is the Adcom GFA-5800. There is currently one used on Audigon for $700.00. Weighs about 60 pounds. Very powerful. It was designed by Nelson Pass. There is also one for $650.00 on Ebay.
True, but we're talking $2300 for the Parasound vs. $700 for an XPA-2. So we're talking different price classes. An XPA should be easy to sell when it comes time to upgrade. Meanwhile, it's good enough so that I think just about anyone would be happy with it.
Emotiva is a cheap man's Parasound. It makes more sense to save a little more and wait a little longer and buy the monster Parasound A21 Amp from Audio Advisor for $2300.00 and buy the outstanding Pre-amp from Wyred4Sound the STP-SE for $2000.00. You will get outstanding high end performance from this combo you will never regret.
I just purchased this amp 3 weeks ago and I ran it for 3 weeks straight 24 /7 in order to burn and new cables .the sound is clean the bass tight.I have the XPA- 200 its 150 watts per channel two channel.
I am about to purchase the aerial 7t's in a couple of Weeks and I was considering a pair of the xpa1's to power them. Has anyone tried to pair the aerials with the emo amps or do any of you with experience with either the amp or these speakers think it would be a good combination? Any insight or input would help.
Conservaudio: The sound of my XPA 1 'S HAVE BECOME FULLER SINCE MY LAST P;OST. AS i AM USING THE MAGGIE 1.&'S EVERY ROOM CHANGE BEDOMES SIGNIFICANT . HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE WITH OTHER TUBE AMPLIFIERS THAT MIGHT mate well with these amps....Never knew what these speakers could do until I used these amps.
We have XPA-1s driving Thiel 3.7s. Upstream, a Bryston BCD-1 feeds an Audio Research REF-5.
XPA-1 input gain is very high at 32db and the 3.7 has sensitivity at 90db and yet the speakers are dead silent when REF-5 is muted. With mute off, there is a very soft barely audible tube rush (1-inch from the drivers) normal with tube gear.
The amplifiers share a dedicated 20A socket. Other components share a Belkin 12-outlet surge protector plugged into a dedicated 15A. There are no conditioning of any sort.
XPA-1 is neutral. Change of cables and components result in corresponding change in sound. Differences in recording qualities show through planly. Bad ones sound bad while good ones are magical with the REF-5 in total control.
XPA-1's performance level competes against the big boys like the ARC 610T. Where the 610T stuns with their uncanny realism, the XPA-1s are, by my estimates, 80-85% that of the 610T. The question is whether the last 15-20% is important enough to worth the extra clams. This is a personal decision.
Before the Emotivas, I tried a pair of Bryston 7B SST2 with our set-up and while these are nice amplifiers, they do not match well and not to my taste.
The 7B SST2 (with new power) came across very polite and somewhat recessed. Details were sometimes hard to hear. Adjusting the voltage in the back was unsatisfactory. At lower gain, it became overly polite and analytical and cold. At higher gain, it got "hard" and tough on our ears.
I do not believe the 7BSST2s are at "fault". They are just not appropriate for the speakers and the linestage and my taste. The Thiel 3.7s demand a lot of raw power even at low decibel to sound their best and the 7BSST2 are not a good match.
I bought, and returned my XPA-2. I was lucky enough to have a old adcom 535 around before. I will say that the XPA-2 was louder, but even the old adcom beat it. Additionally I picked up a old MUSE model one hundred amp and it blew the XPA out of the water. Cost my 100 dollars to ship it back and I will never try one of their amps again. Find a muse or a Aragon.
I bought the Emotiva XPA 1 's...Did not like the idea of Bryston changing the model every other year. Using gthe Emotiva's did require me to put in the attenuators supplied by Magnepan.. they have a full sound after a break in period but are a trifle forward and I have been adjusting my placement.They create drama in many different types of music-(do a great job with organs) But they are not laid back ; I am very happy with my purchase. I am looking for ideas about how to move the sound stage back some...They do bring out the differences of every recording so one has to find the most efficient position.
Bryston, eh? I always thought Emotiva was going for a McIntosh vibe. Some of their older model amps even had glowing blue voltage gauges.
As for quality, I'm not sure. I actually own a USP-1 preamp, which so far has been a great piece of equipment--very quiet and linear with good build quality. That said, according to some recent threads on the Emotiva forum, their cd players have literally been going up in flames on people.
Why would anyone knock off bryston? I mean, if you're going to parrot a big bad power amp design, wouldn't you pick something more worthy of cloning than bryston? For instance, Krell or Dynaudio or Boulder or Goldmund?? Think, Dave...THINK.
agree with colorfulpellets et. al.--emotiva has tended to be dismissed by the (apparently) uninitiated as "home theater" gear, whatever that means. i have noticed of late that emotiva seems to coming into vogue on these pages--lots of favorable comparisons to pricier gear, fewer dismissive comments. what i most admire about 'em is their business model--like a lot of folks they do the make-it-in-china-and sell-it-direct thing, but they also understand the importance of aesthetics, customer service and promotion. they fully deserve whatever success they're experiencing.
I have Emo's modest UPA-2 in my dedicated stereo room and it is a terrific amp. Very dynamic, very detailed, excellent bass control, all the reserve power most would ever need. No hint of "grain" whatsoever through my PSB Image 6Ts. The fact that it was $289 delivered is simply icing on the cake. I question whether any of the outspoken critics of Emotiva products in here have ever actually spent time auditioning them.
jej; from the XPA-2 manual: "NOTE: Bridged mode is meant for use with 8 ohm speakers. Using bridged mode with lower impedence speakers may cause overheating, causing the amplifier to go into protect mode (fault), and possibly sustain permanent damage."
Any grain that is heard in the xpa 2 can be removed by using hifi tuning fuses I know I have done this with no negative drawbacks only positive improvements. Well worth the money spent. Second to that would be a power cord I found jps labs to work well the two combined it is much Improved and wouid put it up against many socalled hi end amps. Buy one
These replaced vintage McIntosh equipment, the 2125 amp and C-36 pre-amp. Don't regret the switch for minute. The XPA-3 dumps all over the Mac power-wise, clarity, bass slam, and high frequency extension. The pre-amp has a very effective and convenient built-in crossover that makes adding a subwoofer easy. As for build quality, all you need to do is read their website for a description of the parts used.
Emotiva gets some grief from the high end snobs because they all too ofter equate price with quality when there isn't always a reasonable reason to do so. Emotiva's business model allows they to offer high quality equipment at reasonable prices. Pull the trigger on the Emotiva. You won't regret it. And if you do decide to re-sell it, watch how fast they go here at Audiogon.
Emotiva - my current office system: Manley Shrimp pre, Sim Moon CD.5, Music Hall DAC 25.2, Paradigm Sig S4 V2, Sonos z90 feeding a Firstone Bravo (w/supplier power), my amps alternate between UPA-1 mono blocs and Rogue Atlas power amp. The Emotiva more than holds it own againt the Rogue (which I prefer slighty). I listen to mostly Jazz and Rock and I am very happy with system. Caution I wouldn't use a solid state pre in this set-up as it does sound slightly "etchy"...
"Mtrot, I would be inserted in hearing about your experience with the McCormack DNA-1."
Elem, I received the DNA-1, but it had a loud hum issue. Incredible kudos to SMc Audio, as I had emailed them for help and they called me that very night and spoke with me for almost an hour, even though I did not buy from them. At their suggestion, I picked up a "cheater" plug, which has only two prongs. This did the trick, and confirmed that the problem was a ground loop hum, as SMc suspected. I just got the cheater plug today, so I have not yet done much critical listening.
I did try a couple different speaker cables: Goertz MI-2 Veracity and an older set of Tara Labs RSC Prime bi-wire. Speakers are Monitor Audio Silver 9i. I did not receive any Zobel networks with the Goertz and this may be a problem, in that it seems that if I crank the volume very much, I get a crackling and popping distortion. I am going to get the Zobels and try again. I will say that at low volume, the Goertz sound fabulous on vocals. Admittedly, an old design, the Tara do not suffer from any limitation on cranking the volume, but at the same time do not do much for me. They are OK, but I don't feel like they do great on the highs or on conveying the timbre and tone of music.
Now that I have solved the hum issue, I am going to do a lot more critical listening.
I have a 7 channel Emotiva MPS-1 amp. It is a caged 7 "blade" design, so each blade is essentially a digital powered monoblock. It is outstanding for home theater (200 watts per channel). It was quite satisfactory for a couple of years in two channel, but I was using a custom modded DAC with an Oppo used as a transport.
I now use a BAT-600 SE amp for two channel and the mains in HT, but I still use the MPS-1 for the other 5 channels. I hear no reason to change the Emotiva MPS-1 when used this way.
I have owned two XPA 2 amps in the past, along with there USP-1 preamp. I would say it was sharp cold and bright in my system.
I replaced the Emotiva USP-1 with a older Classe model 4 preamp and the sound was so much better. It was fuller , deeper, voices sound real. There was not one positive area that the USP-1 preamp was better than the Classe 4 preamp.
I now have two Emotiva UPA-1 amps as mono-blocs. I also have a Classe model 5 preamp. And this combo sound even better the two XPA-2 amps in bridge-mode.
It has never clipped when used on my 4ohm speakers like the 2 XPA-2 amps did, and in my system sounds just as loud , dynamic and has better sound-staging and better separation. It also goes very deep in the Bass.
So to me Emotiva amps ( XPA-2, UPA-1) hold there own to amps costing alot more. And the UPA-1 mono-bloc is a giant killer, esp. when used with a Classe preamp.
I do know that the two XPA-2's in bridge-mode were not made to withstand a 2ohm load like my speakers produce at high volume. That is another reason I like the 50lb. lighter UPA-1'S amps. They just keep on going.
I can't even express how happy I am... So much more alive, organic, truly amazing! I decided to add the Peachtree iDac, and the CJ Classic SE Pre.
It makes all the difference. I acheived exactly what I was looking for out of the XPA-2. I am very satisfied right now, I'm going to enjoy this moment...
Nordic587, nice to hear you had a chance to audition the XPA-2. What you describe is on par with what I've heard, for the most part in my setup.
With that said, in my setup I've noticed some grain in the highs. I' will be auditioning the XPA-2 with a Conrad Johnson Classic SE and see if that gets me where I want to be...
Audition: XPA-2. Yesterday, quite by chance I learned a neighbor of mine has an XPA 2. I have been curious about the sound and asked him if here would mind an audition only with my speakers. My help carrying it to my house was part of the deal.:) I have Thiel CS 2's driven by a Hafler 9180. Long story short: The XPA 2 sounded like this: definitely a somewhat "bigger" sound, a lot of detail, a robust bass, broad soundstage with a more forward presence than my Hafler. I listened to voice, orchestra and rock. I did hear what I thought was "crisp" definition in some mid's esp the highs. Don't know how else to describe this. My Hafler seems to soften the mid's and highs just a bit and provides a big enough sound reproduction in it's own right. If I was in the market for an amp I would likely try the XPA 2.
This hobby is about SOUND! i.e. what reaches our ears. Not about the cost of parts. You could buy and replace the Emotiva many times for the price of a Bryston. Because you will get tired of looking at it long before 20 years. All electrical / mechanical equip is prone to failure. ALL! Witness the space shuttle.
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