@ct0517 ,
You have the experience/.I have the financial loss..
You have the experience/.I have the financial loss..
Eminent Technology ET-2 Tonearm Owners
Where are you? What mods have you done ?
I have been using these ET2's for over 9 years now.
I am still figuring them out and learning from them. They can be modified in so many ways. Bruce Thigpen laid down the GENIUS behind this tonearm over 20 years ago. Some of you have owned them for over 20 years !
Tell us your secrets.
New owners – what questions do you have ?
We may even be able to coax Bruce to post here. :^)
There are so many modifications that can be done.
Dressing of the wire with this arm is critical to get optimum sonics along with proper counterweight setup.
Let me start it off.
Please tell us what you have found to be the best wire for the ET-2 tonearm ? One that is pliable/doesn’t crink or curl. Whats the best way of dressing it so it doesn’t impact the arm. Through the spindle - Over the manifold - Below manifold ? What have you come up with ?
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I gave you my opinion on my experiences with the Timeter Aridyne 3000, which I had acquired used. I had a virtual system even then, and you could see the model. I don't work for Timeter, am not familiar, still to today, with all the products they make, and frankly don't need to know. I provide opinions on gear I actually own, or have owned. I would assume anyone buying anything, that is another model, yet alone a different line of product from a company, is doing the research themselves on the unit, before acquiring it. |
Harry et al (excl. Slaw) lol my T- A - 2000 was due for delivery today .......is stuck at the border. The people I am paying real money to..... to walk it across "the line" are not sure what is going on. They say they need to get back me. Seems a good example to me....of excellence in action. How does this country survive ? I don't have eyes on the border. Did he (you know who I mean) put up any walls recently ? |
"Stuck at the Border" - The True Meaning. I recently learned, that the border "line" in shipping, is a lot like the "line" used to set up an ET2... You see.....either "line" (the border-line, or ET2 set up-line) can be moved and put anywhere as long as certain conditions are met. The above border - line, is defined and possible because of the magic of the "Bonded" carrier. ******************* My case in point. (just sharing ) The border "line" turned out to be, not the physical US/Canada border itself or even near it; but a warehouse less than one hour from my house, and more than a couple hours away from the physical border. The Freight Company electronic shipment status proved frustrating as the Item in Question - My T-A-2000, is shown as being in this town warehouse, close to me, with a status of "Available for Delivery". The frustration mounts as the days go by and no change in status. Meanwhile inquiries with the Logistics Company people are fruitless, as when they say "stuck at the border", they smartly keep this border-line information to themselves ....until you dig further. Due for delivery later today. |
I guess they can't find a plane coming this way. Show them the money Harry....and a plane will appear out of thin air. IMO - In our Audio Hobby - the rich one $$$ wise, can never find Audio Nirvana, due to being a "frequent flyer" with gear....just too much choice and temptation on a revolving door......but he does get his gear sent to him in the quickest time. 8^0 The shipping on the Aridyne 2000 due to its weight had to go LTL, and cost 2 times more than what I paid for it, using the cheapest method..... the slow boat as they say - and this for ground shipping. |
OK, a little off topic but I must give a shout out to the U.S. Van den Hul rep. Disclaimer first. I have no affiliation with A.J. Van den Hul or his U.S. rep., Finest Fidelity. As those of you who follow my ramblings know, a while back I purchased a VDH Black Beauty special X. Well, in one of my OC tweaking moods I over torqued the bolts holding the cartridge to my ET arm wand and cracked the upper plate on the cartridge. I contacted Randy at Finest Fidelity who is the rather new U.S. VDH distributor. This is a cartridge I purchased "as new" on U.S. Audio Mart from a gentleman in Washington who, for reasons I won't bore you with, I trusted implicitly. Randy could have said, sorry, I can't help because you bought it second hand and not from a VDH dealer. He didn't. Instead, he immediately (same day) contacted A.J. and said, yes it could be repaired; send it on to him. Well, to make a short story long, a month later my Black Beauty was returned to me, I set it up and the right channel had a terrible hum. I again contacted Randy who said send it back. I did so and it made another round trip to the Netherlands (this time free of charge) and , today, I received it back. It is just as glorious as it was the first time around. Incredible customer service like this is hard to find from a dealer, much less a distributor. If you need help with your VDH product, I highly recommend Finest Fidelity. P.S. This cartridge just loves the ET with original aluminum arm wand. |
Hi Brad - you need to be very careful working with and around the machined plug on a stock ET2 tonearm. You would be like we are fond of saying here....... "Poking at the Sleeping Bear" I provide this info from Bruce.... also for anyone that has any ideas of removing and -reinstalling the machined plug ********** If someone removes the 5 pin plug and runs wire straight through the spindle the air bearing will usually work fine. We made a special tool to remove the plugs, you might get lucky with a long screwdriver and you might bend pins on the opposite side of the plug in the attempt. ************ fwiw When I had Bruce build my 19 PSI, 2.5 I specified no machined plug as I had my own one shot wiring. As you know, the first upgrade many people do with their ET2 is wire one shot - from the armtube direct into the phono stage direct, bypassing the air bearing spindle, and the extra connections. Even Bruce runs this way into - what was an SP11mkII the last time I conversed with him on it. Running through the spindle was, I assume, a business decision, based on the turntables that were been equipped with an ET2 at the time it came out.... in the Early Years. Same year the perfect sound (CD) was introduced 8^0 |
Hi Brad - you need to be very careful working with and around the machined plug on a stock ET2 tonearm.Thanks for that information. This arm is pretty new to me and in stock form far superior to anything that I've owned before. I'm trying to decide if or what I might to do to improve it's performance. I did email Bruce about converting it to a high pressure manifold, that might be a possibility. Cost is a concern, so is not having a table for an extend time. -Brad |
^^^^^^^ Brad, in hindsight and fwiw. Consider this. My first ET2 years ago was a stock one. Over time, once I had it working well, I finally opened up the "Book Of Bruce" ...BOB ....and read it through... instead of giving it a cursory look over in sections, the first few times. I then refined my setup again. That stock ET2 outperformed..... Trumped ....... Dynavector, FR64s, VPI 12 and Micro Seiki tonearms that I had. That’s in stock mode. So my advice based on my experiences, is to have patience with what you have and build experience with it. Now definitely get a couple Long I Beams from Bruce (Single and Double Springs). The Long I Beam is inexpensive in terms of cost, but huge in terms of performance; and is how it was meant to be, if not for business constraints .... those dreaded dustcovers. Then .....if one is still in Audiophile mode after this, consider the options which include. Direct Shot wiring - very easy setup on an ET2. Just bypass existing wiring. The Aluminum mounting base Aluminum Gooseneck (Joint). Carbon Fiber Armtube. works with MM and MC carts. Magnesium (Mag) armtube. Lower compliance MC carts. High Pressure Manifold. Conversion to 2.5 (if Bruce still does this - not sure) You didn’t say if yours was a 2.0 or 2.5. If you use mostly MC carts, the 2.5 is preferred, larger spindle is lower in resonance to deal better with MC carts as discussed here. If you use MM carts I would stick with the 2.0. My 2 cents *********************** So when is Spring coming guys ? I heard the Yankees and Mets baseball games were snowed out this week ? |
Hello all. Long quiet spell. We must all be busy with spring. Except, of course, Chris who I assume is still snowed in. I picked up my refurbished Garrard 301 yesterday and set it up with the Lyra Delos.
You can see before and after pictures on my virtual system.
Not only is the 301 a work of art, I've never heard a Lyra sound this smooth. Gone is the brightness for which many have criticized Lyras. Nice smooth presentation with gobs of liquidity. I must give a shout out to Greg Metz at STS Turntables. He did an amazing job with the refurb on this table. |
@frogman Interesting. My Lyra Delos sounds significantly better in almost every patamater on the Garrard/Ortofon than it did on the VPI/ET II. On the Garrard the Delos is much richer and the high end is much tamer without being at all rolled off. I've owned two Lyras, the Delos and a Clavis. I've never heard a Lyra sound as good. That said, I don't think it is an improvement over my VDH Black Beauty on the VPI/ET. Different, which one would expect with different tables, arms and cartridges, but I'd be hard pressed to say one was "better" than the other. Then I suppose that alone is a compliment to the Garrard/Ortofon/Delos rig since the VDH costs more than twice the Delos. I've ordered a second headshell for the Ortofon to see how the VDH sounds on the new rig. |
vpi - Chris who I assume is still snowed in. Not funny Harry. this is a Spring unlike any I can ever remember. "Snowed in" is not an accurate phrase. What was falling was granular, like sand. Picture the desert, then imagine trying to shovel white sand. Then it decides to rain, Temp hits 0 celsius 32 F and a crust forms on the snow, so thick you can walk on it without going through. Try shoveling that. The only ones more confused than me seem to be the dark Robins standing on it looking for nesting material. Cruel. Todays temps of 8 degrees C 46 F will create a big mess. Congratulations on your new setup Harry. Enjoy. Glad it arrived safely by slow boat. Boy, what I would give for some boating weather right about now. Now, I don’t want to be the one to tell you this, but you do realize don’t you, that one day, that "Come to Jesus" moment will arrive. Oh yeah, it will come be assured, as long as you remain in Audiophile mode. It will taunt you, till you can no longer resist. You will succumb to it, we all do, and you will be forced to mount your ET2 on the new table; to find out the real truth. You will be startled at how much the table brings to .......the table .... heh heh An Apples to Apples comparison with the VPI, for Mr. VPI .... 8^0 . Happy :Listening |
@ct0517 I don't envy you your "spring". Albeit is snowing here in North Carolina as I type this. You may be right regarding the ET on the Garrard. I cannot, however, see myself drilling new holes in this beautiful plinth. At the risk of being excommunicated from this site I must repeat, the Lyra Delos loves this Ortofon TA-110 arm. It is a heavily damped arm with some kind of space age rubber in the arm tube. I guess it just matches with the low compliance of the Delos. Thinking of changing my ID to Garrard instead of VPI. |
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My interest in a comparison of the two tables was specifically about any possible differences in the way that the two keep rhythm (PRAT) and general sense of aliveness; something that would be audible regardless (mostly) of arm and cartridge. Of course, along with improved speed stability come things like improved image stability and less grain, but still.... Please share any impressions, Garrard 😉. Congrats again. Finally (bad audiophile!) got around to trying the (OEM) long I-beams. Will report back with impressions soon. |
@frogman Interesting question once again. Before acquiring my Garrard I had read several posts in blogs/forums wherein people talked about the "Garrard Sound" and how some tweaks and upgrades were not good because they resulted in a loss of the "Garrard Sound." They described the "Garrard Sound" as a heightened sense of rhythm or pace. Until acquiring my Garrard I had a hard time imagining what they were describing and assumed it was psycho acoustic. I.e., I just paid a lot of money for this rig so it has to sound better. Now that I own one I think I understand. First, and foremost, the sound is bolder. Lower registers and lower midrange seem fuller giving a better sense of space and a better foundation from which the music emerges. For example, cymbals, bells, snare drums now emerge from a blacker background. For me this makes the music more "alive." More to your point, there does seem to be more toe tapping going on. There is a heightened sense of rhythm. This rhythm component is, of course, more noticeable on rock/pop and jazz than on classical. I'm not talking about speed or quickness (which I assumed would be more related to the cartridge than the table or arm). However, despite the fact I believe the Delos to be far "quicker" than my VDH cartridge I think the VPI/ET/VDH combo is quicker than the Garrard/Ortofon/Delos. Sorry to be so long winded but your question and what I think I am hearing are quite subjective. Not subtle but subjective. I've only listened for two days but a lot of hours in those two days and the Garrard rig makes me want to tap my toe more than the VPI. I was more inclined to attribute this to the heavily damped Ortofon arm but as you make me stop and think about the subject, it may well be attributable to the Garrard 301. There are certainly other Garrard owners who think so. |
Well, true to @ct0517 prediction the experience with my Garrard has caused my VPI/ET II to demand my attention. Among other tweaks, I think I'd like to try a carbon fiber arm wand. I have two mag wands. Does anyone have a carbon fiber wand they are not using that they might like to swap for a mag arm? |
Sounds like you’re having fun Harry ? IMO - When we introduce a new turntable setup we increase the variations factor ten fold due to different TT stands, Tables, Tonearms, Carts, Gear (loading), etc.... For this reason although changing out an armtube might help a little, it may not be the silver bullet due to the many variations you have introduced. Words in describing what we are hearing mean different things to each of us. for example. You used the words bright, etched, and smooth. To me - bright, etched implies detail is there, but there is setup issues somewhere. Smooth to me implies, nice but rolled off extremities. HF, LF. How are you setting up these different carts on different tonearms and tables. Are you loading them ? Does your preamp have adjustable gain ? ************************ vpi - I don’t envy your "spring". Well ,the way I see it, it all evens out Harry. In summer when you are forced inside due to the oppressive heat, I will be fishing on a lake that I can drink the water from.....well...except if that one buddy shows up with the bad prostate that can’t hold it in, and needs to piss from the boat. Then all bets are off. So does you idler run fast when set in the middle of the factory default 33 1/3 setting ? |
@ct0517 Re: Setup: I've tried all variations of setup with the VPI/ET/Delos and it always remains a little bright. Yet with the Delos on the Garrard/Ortofon that slightly bright, etched sound goes away. We are using bright and etched with the same meaning. Smooth was probably not a good choice. Rich would have been a better choice for what I hear from the Delos on the Garrard/Ortofon. Not at all rolled off in highs or lows, but an increase in detail in the mid range. More liquid and a blacker background. I really don't expect a carbon fiber arm wand to make a dramatic difference, but, hey, I've got an aluminum and 2 mags, so why not have one of each. The Delos on the VPI/ET was setup at mid point of VTF range (1.75) and, as recommended, level with record (no VTA cranked in or out.) On the Garrard it is set up slightly nose down, tail up The VDH Black Beauty on the VPI/ET is also set at the midpoint of recommended VTF and very slight nose down, tail up VTA. I am not loading either cartridge on either table. My CAT SL-1 is 47k ohms. I tried loading the Delos on the VPI/ET at 40, 80 & 100 ohms. All rolled off the highs too much. I have since made a 1000 ohm loading plug but have not tried it with the Delos on the VPI/ET. No, the CAT has no gain adjustment, just volume. The Garrard appears to be running steady at correct speed. The interesting part is on the VPI/ET rig I am very happy with the VDH, but not so much the Delos. Yet, on the Garrard/Ortofon I am extremely pleased with the result from the Delos. Indeed, with the Delos on the Garrard and the VDH on the VPI they sound very similar. Interesting because these cartridges are so radically different. I think you have a misperception of where I live. While I am in the South, I am in extreme Western North Carolina in the mountains. We do not get those oppressively hot temperatures in the summer (regardless of what Al Gore would have you believe.) |
I run my MC carts with no load at 47k also. I have found that with adjustable gain, with those LPs that are recorded brighter if I turn down the gain a bit, I don't have to fiddle with VTA. With digital and its high compression on many albums this feature is invaluable. My Lenco idler I thought was at speed at the factory slot setting of 33 1/3, but when I measured it with the tachometer I found it was set to run fast and it needed to be dialed down. I found this on a couple other decks too. Reason I asked. Thought you were located where it got real hot. My bad. The mountains sound great. |
The description of the sonic change with the Garrard reminds me of my friends system when he changed to a Lenco. Even with a very simple plinth the very satisfying solidity and propelling musicality just popped out of the speakers. Just *a lot* more "there there"! This was compared with same cartridge (Benz LP-S) on a WTT Signature (rare beast!) to a Funk tt with FX arm. Both are in no way slouches in regard to transparency and quickness etc. Regarding the thinness of the Delos on the VPI: When I tweaked & optimized a Benz for a customer I was astonished at how audible changes above 0.01-0.02 gram were. Too low and one gets an exciting, but edge of the seat sound, that sounds stressed sort of. Too high and the sound gets a bit dull and slow in the bass, with a lack of open timbres. The easy way to tweak is to set the VTF low and start with small, measured Blue-Tak balls, that are lightly stuck to the headshell. (Yes they change the sound slight by themselves - but more slightly than the weight change) Too low or high VTF has obviously the opposite signature to VTA changes. I think that the changes with tracking force are only partially explainable with implicite VTA changes. And I feel that the effect is more pronounced than VTA changes. If one starts to think about tweaking VTA and loading, my experience is that is crucial to really first tweak tracking force (VTF) by ear, with a precise digital tracking gauge. - And high precision & repeatability in setting the needle down on the gauge. |
@pegasus . Thanks for the tip on VTF. I'm so pleased with the Delos on the Garrard and its sense of "there", it's probably going to stay on the Garrard. Don't want to touch it for fear of losing the magic. The Delos is a whole different cartridge on the Garrard. I did, however, play with VTF and VTA with the VDH on the VPI to a nice result (good grief is that enough V's for you). I lightened VTF just a tad (.03) and went just a little more nose down with VTA. As you predicted it firmed up the bass and made cymbals more wispy. Not sizzley but more delicate. Thanks, Harry |
Those of you who still have your ET bolted to a VPI HW-19 may be interested in my experience with replacing the spring suspension. Being frugal and reading severalblogs about how childrens' noodles made a good replacement I tried one inch pieces of a noodle. While I initially liked the sound they were nowhere stiff enough for my MK III with its steel sub-chassis and TNT platter. Over night the noodle squished down way too far. To make matters worse they didn't squish at the same rate causing a loss of level. Not good for any arm but critical for the ET. Next I tried Vibrapod cones. Hard rubber cones with a steel ball at the narrow end. They made a nice firm foundation but the music seemed to go flat with a loss of air, bloom and soundstage depth. Just kind of boring. Finally, I inserted a set of Herbies extra firm, tall Tenderfeet. The soundstage deepened and the bloom and air returned. Nice firm foundation that does not degrade sound. Not denegrating the Vibrapod cones. They are a nice product but for this application the tall Tenderfeet were a much better solution. |
Brooks Berdan was a big fan of the Oracle Delphi (he even came up with a mod for it, which Oracle ended up copying), to which he mounted many of the Eminent Technology arm. But when the HW-19 (and then the TNT) was introduced, he switched allegiance to that high mass design for use with the ET, feeling it provided a better platform for the moving mass of the arm's wand. In addition to Herbies Tall Firm Tenderfeet, the SIMS Navcom Silencers are popular replacements for the HW-19's stock suspension springs. |
Prior to mounting my ET2 on a TNT6 (V platter), it spent time living on three versions of the HW19 (MK2-MK4). During that time I tried many different replacements for the springs. The best in my system, stability and sound wise, was an original Sorbothane puck with the round indentation facing up into which was inserted a short original Mod Squad cone facing up. The top plate rested on these and my sense was that the top plate saw little compliance. The height was perfect. I normally don’t like the sonic signature of Sorbothane, but it worked very well in this application. |
@frogman Yes, I remember now you are the VPI aficionado. I've read posts by several people who, like you, don't care for sorbothane as a spring replacement but the sorbothane/cone combination makes sense. I have several of the pucks you describe and a bunch of cones ( metal and ceramic). I'll have to try it out. The Herbies feet are much firmer than sorbothane so I don't think I'm seeing a lot of compliance at the top plate either. Like bdp24, many like the Sims navcom pucks. Alas, they are no longer made and hard to find on the used market. |
Michael Percy sells a product that HW-19 owners may want to try. It is made by well-known commercial isolation product specialist company EAR, and is named the Isoloss Sandwich Mount. It is intended for use on circuit boards, but the EAR Isoloss material has properties also well suited for turntable isolation applications. And, two of the sizes the Mount is offered in are perfect for the HW-19: about 1/3" tall with 4-40 threads, same as those used on the table's motor plate stand-offs; and 5/8" tall and in diameter, with 1/4-20 threads, same as the threads used in the spring suspension. The Sandwich Mount has a short male threaded stud on one end (1/2", in the case of the 1/4-20), with internal female threads on the opposite, flat rubber side. Each 1/4-20 size Mount can support 12 lbs., so a set of four can be used with even a TNT platter-fitted HW-19 (whose steel/acrylic sub-chassis weighs 18.6 lbs., the TNT platters 15-20). And, the threaded male stud allows the Mount to provide height-adjustment/leveling of the suspended sub-chassis. Only $5.95 each---I think I'm going to order a set. I have the original, stock springs (with the little plastic top caps fitted with 3 ball bearings), a set of Herbies Tall Firm Tenderfeet, and SIMS Navcom Silencers, all of which I intend to compare with the EAR Mounts. Those interested can read about the mount on Michael Percy's website. |
Bdp24 here is an Oracle ET combo here. Remember, there are over 2500 Et2’s out there. I suspect more and more vinyl combos to come available in the near future, as some owners have passed on, or are at that point in time where "convenience" with Audio has become the most important priority to them. bdp24 (Eric) I never owned the Canadian Oracle, but did own the Harry Weisfeld Mark 4 Piano Black and the more expensive TNT (which was designed as we know in a collaboration between Harry VPI and Bruce - ET. That collaboration ended, as all business relationships do; I suspect when Harry introduced his own tonearm. Both these tables HW19-4 and TNT were designed and built to certain price points. In analysis (past) of manufacturer turntable builds in general, I have noticed that "one" of the areas that designers put their focus on as price levels increase, is in the table’s tolerances. If one is in Audiophile Mode and looking for more performance, for either the stock HW19 and TNT, having owned them; improvements can be made to elevate the ET2 performance by upgrading the turntable’s 1) Bearing 2) Suspension (4 pods on the TNT) 3) Rubber belt drive system. For myself I discovered that these areas were a type of bottleneck to my ET2’s performance, in my system kit and space at that time. This became the most evident to me after the ET2 was put on other tables, SP10MKII and Nantais Lenco, with the same cartridge in my space; as well as being compared with Tape R2R - 15 IPS, Pic 28 in my virtual system shows what mods I ended up when I owned the TNT, to allow it to come closer to the speed stability of the SP10 and the Nantais Lenco groove factor. |
@ct0517, the expensive VPI’s use the same cr*ppy Hurst motor as the cheapest! I recently got myself an Aries 1 for peanuts (specifically as a platform for the TransFi Terminator arm), and it is really a TNT with a smaller footprint (22" x 16")---the TNT was too d*mn big. One way to elevate any of the VPI’s is with the Phoenix Engineering Falcon or Eagle PSU’s, and Roadrunner tachometer. |
Bdp24 - too d*mn big there are no such words in the Audiophile world. Too big is also a relative thing. You want big ....come see my Jean Nantais Lenco. You will have a Come to Jesus moment. For some its been their only religious moment. Picture this..ah actually no, see pic 8 Goldilocks and the Three Turntables. So it has by design to deal with those nasty idler resonances, hollowed out cavities under the motor, and both armboards; and it still weighs 100 lbs. Bdp24 - the expensive VPI’s use the same cr*ppy Hurst motor as the cheapest! If an Audiophile does not like their outboard motor, or their controller, it’s a very easy thing to swap out, or bypass it (in the case of the HW19). Changing out the bearing structure DNA is however another matter. You know, in real estate they like to say Location, Location, Location. Well with turntables and tonearms, it’s the Bearing, Bearing, Bearing.... . ********************** Regarding your Aries TT Eric. As a drummer IMO you owe it to yourself, to go to Fabricland, pick up some Silk thread and hear what thread driven drum shots sound like, compared to the rubber belt. |
slaw, when you ask "Is the Hurst motor a springboard for (their) motor controllers?", are you speaking of Phoenix Engineering and their motor controllers, or VPI and theirs? It seems logical to assume that VPI controllers were developed specifically for the Hurst’s they install in all their tables, so I’m guessing you meant Phoenix Engineering. Design engineer and company owner Bill Carlin developed his motor products for use with any and all AC synchronous motors, including VPI’s of course. Bill knows a LOT about motors, and his postings on the VPI Forum site contain deep design details, a source of great information about turntables and their motors. The PE products are not only quite a bit more sophisticated and advanced than VPI’s, but also cheaper. Too bad they are no longer available! New, anyway. As I do with just about everything I buy used, I completely disassembled the VPI HW-19 I recently acquired. Once in pieces, I discovered that the little rubber grommets that are part of the motor stand-offs that separate the upper and lower motor mounts had broke apart, a common problem with the HW-19, I learned. I replaced them in the manner I mentioned above---with E-A-R Isoloss Sandwich Mounts, a direct, easy-to-install swap. I also discovered that the table does NOT have the Hurst motor it left the factory fitted with, but rather a Bergerlahr, a German company. Their motors are well regarded, and considered to be of higher quality than those of Hurst. I reckon either the original wore out and was replaced with the Bergerlahr, or it was installed by a former owner as an upgrade. ct0517, I have been reading on the VPI Forum about using thread in place of the stock rubber belts on their tables, and will eventually get around to trying that. |
Love to see videos or pic of the ET 2. This is mine. I changed out the cartridge to a ZYX Omega Ultimate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh91bEcwkvo |
Slaw - Slaw Regarding motors. I did research on a number of motors, and this included the possibility of using the SP10mkII as a motor/controller, placed beside the TNT; also considered an SL1200 I owned that I used to lend out to people over the years. I came to a dilemma with the TNT. The string/thread drive experiments were a revelation; I was a convert to it, and to improve on the setup I had, required a pulley and platter/bearing system more designed for thread. Ideally the pulley groove needs to be very small due to the diameter of the thread to work best. You can get thread drive to work with a Belt pulley well, as we have discussed here, but the TNT pulley was designed for a rubber belt. See these pictures. The belt pulley is on the left. The thread pulley on the right https://photos.app.goo.gl/8RtPVapcxiB1xHrL7 https://photos.app.goo.gl/fQtGRhfGVUz71Kjx8 Due to the lack of candidates, instead of further modding the TNT , I chose to pursue a TT that was designed specifically for thread drive. I did own the TNT for a period after acquiring La Platine and did try the Verdier motor with it and vice versa in failed experiments. This was interesting and I can provide more detail if anyone likes. The Original Platine Granito (like mine) was designed for Thread Drive only. I assume to drum up more sales in later years, Mr. Verdier added the Belt pulley option to appease those folks that wanted it. :^( ************************************ flemke - thanks for posting your video. You have an ET 2.0 with the HPM. I like the way you set up your wiring around the plinth area. Very little effect on the bearing. Some go wrong (imo) and try to imitate the Kuzma design with the wires up and over from the cart. This setup I have found effects the spindle/bearing with pushes and pulls. This is ok on the Kuzma design as it needs the wires and air tube for damping. The ET2 however is a different design and does not rely on damping from wires and tubing. It’s an ideal candidate for a wireless bluetooth cartridge/preamp if it ever gets invented. Recommend you get Bruce’ long I Beam. The weight requirement on your own modded I Beam would be cut in half. ************************************* @bdp24 I have to tell you that you are a type of Audio enigma to me. You see, from your posts on this forum, you appear to be a big fan of Bruce’;, yet as a vinyl guy you do not own the product he makes that IMO is above all others in design and operation. Did our antics on this thread intimidate you in any way ? 8^0 |
@ct0517---Well, I do own two of Bruce’s speaker models, LFT-8b and LFT-4. My not having an ET arm is the result of long ago choosing the Townshend Rock as my turntable. A linear tracking arm can not be used with the Rock, due to the table’s damping trough. I’m of the opinion that a system is best assembled from the two ends inward---the phono pickup and the loudspeaker (both transducers) first, then the tonearm and the power amp. I believe the speaker should be selected before the amp, the amp then chosen by it’s suitability for use with that speaker. Likewise, the pickup first, then an arm particularly appropriate for the chosen pickup. Chris, as you know, I am also a long-time Quad ESL owner, and I got myself both a Bedini 25/25 and a pair of Atma-Sphere M60’s with which to power the Quads. I chose the Townshend Rock as my turntable because of my love of the Decca/London pickup; the Rock is THE table for the those pickups, for reasons I won’t go into here. I saw and heard the Oracle Delphi/ET-2 and VPI HW-19 & TNT/ET-2 many times at Brooks Berdan’s shop (Brooks’ two favorite arms were the ET and the Graham). But since I prioritize the pickup over the arm, and the Rock is the best table for the pickup, never got myself an ET arm. I got the VPI HW-19 with the intent of installing the spare Townshend damping trough I have on it for a second London. While looking around for an arm to put on the VPI, I became aware of the TransFi Terminator. I was intrigued when I saw a London Reference mounted on the arm in pictures, and subsequently learned that TransFi owner/designer Vic used the Reference himself. Since the Terminator is only a little over a grand, I thought what the heck, I’ll give it a try. I have no idea how it compares to the ET arm, so if I end up liking the TransFi maybe I’ll consider looking into it. Though the ET and the TransFi are both linear-tracking air-bearing arms, they are very different from one another. |
Eric very happy to hear that it was a turntable limitation and not our ramblings on this thread, that prevented you from getting an Et2. I chose the Townshend Rock as my turntable because of my love of the Decca/London pickup; the Rock is THE table for the those pickups, for reasons I won’t go into here. It may be a really good table for that cartridge, I don’t doubt you at all; but you also know that Decca’s own reference tonearm is a Linear tracker. But since I prioritize the pickup over the arm, and the Rock is the best table for the pickup, never got myself an ET arm. I differ from you here on how to prioritize table, tonearm, cart - My take on it and opinion. My personal findings have been through my own number of carts, tonearms and tables - in my own space. Not at shows, or dealer salons, or other folks set ups, and or reviews. My experiments with putting the same tonearm, cartridge set up well, on different tables and hearing this after various mods. Better ----> Worse --------> Better -----> Different -------> Better --------> Different ------> Worse ---------> Better (one should always end up with better in the end) 8^0 Showed me very clearly how much role the table itself plays. In fact based on my findings. IMO, the better table, with a better tonearm and modest cartridge, set up well...... WILL..... outperform a very expensive cart on a more modest table and tonearm. No question. So if one is just starting out on an Audiophile Journey; I say stick with modest cartridges first, learn the table, tonearm relationship. Do your upgrades.....settle on a combo. Then go nuts on carts if they like. I do not deny that every cart one puts on changes the sound dramatically. I just think it is much easier to change out carts then whole turntables and tonearms. And with that if I ever get a another cart, a London is at the top of the list. Just remember. That very expensive cart is on a continual decline with hours played from Day One. Whereas I expect my turntable, and tonearm to outlast me. I can mount any cart I want on my ET 2.5. In summary I say - Invest in the table and tonearm and be done with it. Then have at it with various carts at a person’s desire. $$ ..to $$$$$ Just my 2 cents. ************** You have referred to the Trans fi Terminator tonearm a few times now. Can you clarify something for us Eric. Maybe for someone considering it. So from the website - It is a multi bearing (air and mechanical), sled based design where the air does not enclose 360 like the ET but rides under only. Re: its operation, my understanding is it does not swing away to load up a record ? A listening session for me is 6 or 7 records. .that means 12- 14 times I will place a record on the platter including flips. I don’t want that Cartridge anywhere near the record when loading. I need the tonearm/cartridge up and out of the way. |
Regarding the Trans-Fi arm: it is somewhat different to the ET 2, but it has more in common with it than with radial arms. It has an ingenious knife edge bearing for the vertical movement, a gravity loaded, open low pressure high flow air bearing, a very short and very stiff arm / sledge connection, and medium high rigidity for twisting the sleigh around the vertical axis. It is a *functionally* very high precision bearing design, that puts less strain on production tolerances than the ET 2. The vertical movement geometry, with a high vertical bearing and considerably lower tracing point, is similar to some older linear trackig tonearms like Revox, or the Souther / Clearaudios, but is much better / stiffer in implementation. The closest today (in vertical geometry) is the RS Labs RS-1 arm. This geometry has some well known and discussed drawbacks (FM modulation with vertical warps) - but it has one less well known (nor discussed) advantage: Placing the vertical bearing in +/- a line that extends the cantilever upwards (+/- 20 degrees) it reduces/eliminates a dynamical vertical force generated at the cantilever bearing, which is created by varying tracing friction. The effect is very similar to the dynamic forces that are created by the horizontal offset angle of radial arms’, which varies dynamically too, and thus constantly feeds vibration energy into the arm/cartridge resonant system. Horizontal in the latter case, vertical in the case of all arms that set the vertical axis eg. on platter level or rel. low. The Trans-Fi has outstanding customer reactions, the bass seems one of its key qualities (not as a trade-off), similar to the RS Labs RS-1. It is probably a bargain, similar to the Adanalog arm, but in engineering terms it has almost no compromises.This said, it *is* quite a huge "machine" that works only with stiffly suspended substantial turntable drives. |
The tuning of the cartridge was a job I did for a friend & small audio tuning shop. and I am distributor of Ambience Ribbon hybrid speakers. But this is not a business in any normal sense. I run a cultural hotel including concert program and do some live recordings. Audio is not my business - it is my passion.Around which I have acquired some skills. The Ambience Ribbons distribution came out of my interest in the product as a customer. It is a very good product but there is not a real market in Switzerland for a small company run on a small part time job. I do not sell any analog products like cartridges, tonearms etc. Why do you ask? |
Why do you ask ? One of my pet peeves with the new format AudioGon Forum is dealer disclosure. Its optional. It should be mandatory. The other "pp" is not allowing us to have a linkable virtual system with forum talk, forcing us to use external links like google. Audiogon (Tammy) are you reading this ? Pegasus - thanks for clearing that up. |