Hi Wyan001,
I know of others who tried Tak, EML and AVVT 32SL like I've done. As expected the ranking order varies amongst the listeners. As a group I felt that all three of them were excellent 300b options. I wasn't sure if the Elrog could exceed that elite trio but they did. Quite an achievement. I have heard nearly all of the highly regarded 300bs with the exception of the "vintage" version W.E. 300b. They're just too expensive for me to sample. |
Amtrans is a Japanese vendor of various audio and other electronics. I have bought a couple of pairs of Takatski 300b from Amtrans. I have found them totally reliable and honorable. Only sometimes they are slow to answer emails from the US. (I once had a Japanese friend call Amtrans after my emails had gone unanswered; Amtrans immediately emailed me. Not sure whether the issue was a server or language depending on who was the office.) Amtrans has also been helpful in working with Takatsuki to cull a pair with a low mA as recommended by my amplifier designer.
Takatsuki has had three US distributors: Axiss, Amazon, and now Trueaudiophile. The US price has always been higher than the direct-from-Japan price: 140,000-150,000yen (the price was increased when they introduced the black bases) vs 1800USD from Amazon and now almost 2000USD from Trueaudiophile. When Takatsuki has a US vendor, Amtrans will not sell direct to the US. Not sure about other Japanese vendors, but it might be similar.
Whenever I have bought something from Amtrans, it has been shipped EMS. Delivery has been fast (less than one week - often a matter of days) with no import duty. In my experience Amtrans has always accepted PayPal; in fact, Amtrans insisted on it.
If I needed something from Japan and it was available from Amtrans, I would not hesitate. |
Dracule1,
That purchase was 4 1/2 years ago and don't recall any import duty(it may have been factored in the cost I paided). The tubes were much less buying from them than Axiss who was the American importer at that time.
Charles, |
Charles1dad, did you end up paying import duty fee on the Takatsukis? If so, how much? |
I bought my Takatsuki pair from pricejapan. Their price after fees is actually the same as the price + fees quoted from amtrans. However, amtrans won't accept paypal payment and I really don't want to wait in the banks to wire transfer and thus I bought them from pricejapan. Anyhow, the price has increased by 10% since I bought them and the wait time has been much longer.
Too bad I cannot and may never be able to do a Taka vs Elrog comparison - my Elrog pairs died on my Lampizator Big 7 and they were sent back long ago. But I do prefer Taka a lot to EML 300B XLS on Frankenstein. Maybe a tiny bitter worse than EML for big scale but everything else better.
I am now settled with Taka but I do hope that Elrog could fix their reliability issue. They were top 300B tubes for sure.
By the way, the Takatsuki 274B is also great but also expensive (priced close to vintage WE27B NOS). |
Got a little excited and didn't read your last sentence. I'm not getting my hopes up with the Amtrans guys. |
I tried that email several days ago but no response. Do you know if they're still in business? |
I bought my Takatsuki pair direct from Japan with the 2 year warranty intact. My source was audio@amtrans.co.jp
, this was done in 2011. I believe Gary(Gsm18439) used them as well to buy his pair. I don't know for sure if they're still a source presently. |
Well, here's a Japanese site that sells Takatsukis. It's about $1,400 USD for a pair. However, they're middlemen so the warrantee doesn't apply to sales outside Japan. If something goes wrong during manufacturer's warrantee, they claim they will take it back and get replacement. Don't know how reputable these guys are. BTW, no refunds even if the tubes are DOA.
http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=1255&category=17 |
I had initially ordered my first pair of the Elrog tubes through Trueaudio file.com. They were very professional and responsive, they had a backlog of orders and could not get the tubes right away, they kept me informed of the situation. After a three or four week period of waiting they contacted me and stated they weren't sure when these tubes would be available via the next shipment. They graciously refunded my payment for the tubes, I have nothing but good things to say about them and I wish them well. I did subsequently order my tubes through tubes usa.com and George Lentz was wonderful, fast and very responsive. When my original pair of these tubes failed, George was very attentive and supportive and was very
helpful in getting me the replacement tubes. Based on my encounters with
both of these companies I can recommend both for their service and professionalism. The Elrog in terms of sound quality is brilliant. As I and others have stated on this thread before, longevity and reliability will be determined over the following months and hopefully years.
Charles, |
I bought my Elrogs from True Audiophile. They distinguished themselves with excellent responsiveness and customer focus. I also heard the horror stories in their attempts at taking care of their customers who experienced tube failures. I can say they did everything they could to help me. Indeed they did all I could expect of them and more. It would seem the relationship between TA and Elrog ended on rather strained terms. It will be up to Elrog to meet market expectations with respect to both sound quality and product longevity vs. other premium 300B offerings. By all accounts, both the EML and Taks are not far behind the Elrogs.
I had a pair of Elrogs fail, and they supplied a replacement pair promptly. That is about all I could ask of Elrog. If this pair fails, I am quite sure I will move on,probably to the EMLs. On the other hand, I have no reservations about dealing with TA again. They proved themselves to be a truly customer focused vendor, in my estimation.
The Elrog tubes are very good, and we all want them to get the issues rectified. But at the end of the day, most of us won't be investing in tubes that only last a few months. And, Elrog also should nurture distributors of the caliber of True Audiophile. TA showed themselves to me to be a bunch of good eggs, in my opinion. |
Although I have never heard the Elrogs (and I trust Charles' 'ears'), I am a fan of the Takatsukis. |
Trueaudiophile recommends the Takasuki's over the Elrogs now. I guess it has more to do with reliability than sound quality, but according to TA, the Takasuki's come closest to the vintage 300B sound. |
I was interested in buying a pair of the Elrogs and contacted trueaudiophile recently. Unfortunately, they no longer carry them. The guy I talked to said it was a nightmare dealing with all the failures and warrantee issues. I hope someone will carry these tubes once the failure issues are resolved. |
Charles,
I received my replacements about a week ago and have listened to them sparingly while awaiting delivery of the PS-10 so I can limit the voltage going to the amps. That said, the replacement tubes most certainly sound better than the originals as they sounded prior to failure.
When I replaced the failed elrogs with my Psvane T black bottles, I was surprised to find that the Psvanes were almost indistinguishable from the Elrogs. This was in sharp contrast to my initial reaction to the Elrogs, which was that they were head and shoulders above the Psvanes. The inescapable conclusion is that the Elrogs really degraded with use prior to failure. Prior to failure, I knew something was wrong. The system had lost its magic, and I had no idea what was wrong.
Anyone else experience anything similar?
Apart from keeping the voltage down to 117, anyone got any more tips on the care and feeding of the Elrogs? |
With continued listening to my replacement Elrogs ER 300b I've come to realize they sound "better" than my original pair. I don't know if better matching of the tubes to my amplifier's operational points is the reason or not. The natural sound and music reproduction is the best I've heard in my home to this point. "If" the tube durability can match the sublime SQ, this is the best tube recommendation I can offer someone. This tube is really something special.
Charles, |
|
I also got my replacement pair (Matthias, thank you very much) and they sounds like ... Elrogs! |
Wyan001:
Unfortunately you can't make adapter to add R to cathode bias: heater pins should be connected directly to 5v heater supply and virtual center of the heater goes via bias resistor to the ground (that's where additional R supposed to go). Also cathode resistor (in this case exiting one in series with the 200 ohm) is bypassed by capacitor.
|
Some post back, there was suggestion of modding the Frankenstein monos by adding about 200ohm of resistance somewhere. Instead of modding the amp, is it possible to simply make a tube converter/adapter that wire a resistor to the pin of anode (or pins of filament)? Will that take care of the issue (without modding the amp)? Thanks. |
Finally, got my replacement pair yesterday (Thanks, Matthias) and spending my Friday evening listening to them right now. I am not sure what has been changed in this replacement pair but I think they sound even better than the original version. I just hope they don't fail prematurely like previous version. Only the time will tell. These are amazing tubes and I think they worth of all that trouble I went through. Best wish for those who are still waiting for the replacement pair but I think you won't be disappointed. |
Hi Cyrus,
I'm not in a position to recommend anything regarding AN or Elrog.
The best whould be to address your question to Elrog engineers.
The only thing I'm comfortable to say that in my setup and with my music preferences I like very much what Elrog300Bs do.
Thank ! |
Alexzz, What AN model were you using? I have Kegons and have considered the Elrog's. |
Mathias,
I emailed Elrog multiple times regarding my tubes, got no reply.
Here it is again:
Serial numbers: 09471 and 09505.
Tubes have arrived to Elrog on 20.06.2015 11:00
Tubes were used in AN amplifier, cathode bias 900 Ohm,
HT 425V, 5.0v DC regulated heaters PS.
Tube failed during listening, there is no issue with the emission or heater, tube just turned into diode.
You respond is appreciated. |
If Elrog has figured out the cause of the reliability issue causing premature tube failure this will be wonderful news for music lovers. I spent the weekend doing quite a bit of listening using the replacement Elrogs(what a pleasure it was). This is a special tube and contributes to superb music reproduction, really involving. Man, I sincerely hope that Elrog gets it all corrected, what a beautiful sounding tube it is. Come on you engineers! |
Matthias, Thanks for the PM. I responded with the information you requested. |
As somewhat of an outsider, but one who is interested since I own an 300b SET, I am concerned by the number of failures and, even more, by the inconsistency in the company's response. Elrog has to understand that in the age of the Internet, all of this becomes common knowledge. |
I got a pair of ER300B from TrueAudiophile in March 2015. One of tubes has failed in June 2015. As per TrueAudiophile request I shipped tubes directly to the factory.
Here is from the email from TrueAudiophile regarding conversation with the factory:
... I went over it very calmly with him explaining he needs to honor the warranty. He refused. He then hung up on me....
I also email to Elrog stating tubes S/N, date of purches etc. No reply.
|
Matthais, I am having difficulty locating you using the member search function. If you could PM me, I should be able to respond to your message. By the way, my serial numbers are 9443 and 9477. |
Hi Brf,
My experience with Trueaudiophile has been excellent. But, I am not sure if they still carry Elrog tubes. You better call them. If they do, I can recommend them. |
Is Trueaudiophile an authorized USA Elrog dealer? Is there any concern purchasing Elrog tubes from them? |
Hi Matthias,
I just chat with Gary. He already had conversation with Klaus and confirmed that he received my pair and found fault with one of tube.
I sent you message with the requested info.
Thanks! |
I am sad to say that my tubes also failed while still under warranty. I contacted my dealer and also send an email to Elrog notifying the issue.
The tubes were sent back to Elrog and arrived there this week. I expect that as a solid company in our industry and looking forward to grow their brand name they make good the warranty and send me a replacement pair.
In this very competitive industry (I can tell you by experience) there is no way a company can survive without standing up for their quality and service. |
Ha ha, no, I was just joking about the unlimited warranty. But I'm glad to know about the two years. But unfortunately I'm not versed enough to know about emissions and the likelihood of emissions failing within six months. I assume that the problems faced by others were not emissions problems?
Anyway, I'm also very curious to hear from other Cary owners, if there are any out there. The 300sei is reportedly fickle with output tubes. Do you like the sound with the Elrogs? Have you tried the Takats? |
Hello Bhchung,
Please excuse the delay in processing the warranty replacement!
It's summer and some of our employees are or were on vacation ... And Gary (Trueaudiophile) is a special case too.
So please, Brownsfan and Bhchung, send me a PM including the serials of the tubes, the type of the amplifier and an address, so I can solve any problems (if exist) personally on monday and ship the replacements as soon as possible.
Regards, Matthias |
Hoping for a favorable outcome for all of us Involved. I will let people know of my ongoing experience and progress with my replacement Elrog tubes. This site is a valuable communication source. I feel committed to sharing the good news, and the not so good news when necessary. |
Hi Matthais,
Same question as Brownsfan here. What do I expect from here? Elrog already has my pair and warranty information. |
Bhchung, I also purchased my tubes through Trueaudiophile, and am awaiting instructions about the return process. I would of course prefer to work through the vendor, but if that is not possible I am willing to deal directly with Elrog. Matthais, how should I proceed? |
One of my Elrog 300Bs failed more than a month ago and I had to ship my pair directly back to Germany after talking to Gary in Trueaudiophile. Elrog initially refused to replace my pair although I had several days left on my warranty. Gary has been following up with Elrog to change their decision. I have been waiting anxiously more than three weeks now. So, this is such a relief that Elrog finally stepped up to take care of their products and customers. I love my ER845s and that is why I bought ER300B. I even left very positive comments for ER300B in this post. Great that Elrog didn't betray their fan... |
Amplifiers with gentle/conservative operating parameters are probably no problem for the Elrog. |
Rfprice,
If you decide to choose the Takatsuki you won't be disappointed IMO. I had to replace one Takatsuki after about 15 months and they honored the warranty without issue. The Elrog ER is the best sounding 300b I've heard in my amplifier. The replacement pair as expected sound superb. As we all recognize, time with be the determining factor regarding these tubes. It is perhaps fair to say that EML and TAK are the "safer" choice at this juncture. They sound excellent(former 300b references for me), but I prefer the sound of the sublime Elrog(with direct comparison in my amplifier) and am willing to give them another chance.
Charles |
Matthias, Thanks so much for your response! I am delighted to hear this. I have alerted my vendor to your response and will pursue replacement through them.
These are just wonderful sounding tubes, and we all really want to see you work out the bugs. |
Ha! If it's an unlimited warranty, sign me up! Not the best business model for a device that will inevitably fail at some point... |
Hi Rfprice,
No, we do not offer unlimited warranty!
Our warranty covers 2 years on materials and manufacturing and a half year for the emission.
It is a matter of grace for a new product.
It's very annoying if a tube fails, but it can happen. It is completely normal with such a new product. There are covert and late visible problems...And we can not by hundrets of different amplifiers to test the tubes...
But we can replace failed tubes by obligingness ;-)
Btw, 90% of all delivered tubes are working well.
Matthias |
Hi Charles1dad: thanks for your advice. I presume that you are happy with your replacement tubes, after the long ordeal? I've been swinging this way and that. I was excited about the Takats for so long, then got caught up in the hype about the Elrogs. And one thing to which I always give great weight: warranties. They say a lot about a craftsman's confidence. The Takats have two years. The Elrog's short warranty, combined with these recent tube failures, give me an ill feeling.
So Matthias: By your recent post, is Elrog now offering unlimited warranty? |
Matthias,
It is extremely refreshing to see a company stand strong for their product. Thank you and best success in righting any problem quickly. Best, Rob |
Hello,
Yes, there are some challenges on the ER300B...
This tube is really new. The first series where build in October 2014. This are the first (300B like)tubes using thoriated tungsten as cathode/filament. To fit the 1.2A/5V filament specifications a VERY thin cathode wire is required.
That makes thinks difficult. An oxide coated filament is much more simple and much easier to handle but the sound is the same as the russian or chinese derivates...so we dicided, to build 300B like RF tubes using thoriated tungsten as filaments because the sound is MUCH better.
@brownsfan
We will replace the failing tubes, doesn't matter they where fail 2days, 2month or 2years post warranty.
Matthias |
Rfprice,
I can say that as of now if you order Elrogs from tubesusa.com(George Lenz) he'll ask about your specific amplifier in order to match operational parameters. Other vendors may now be following these same guidelines as well. |
I've been following this thread with great interest since springtime. I bought my first 300b amplifier last fall, a Cary 300sei. I am getting ready to swap out the output tubes. I had intended to buy the Takatsuki, before I began reading about the Elrogs. But I see from the discussion that there is some question about whether the Elrogs are the right match for the Cary. (And if I am interpreting the technical discussion correctly, perhaps there is some question about the Takats also?)
Any Cary owners using these tubes? I would love to hear your thoughts. |
Tmm, Thanks. As I stated earler, once the tube failed I replaced it with one of my stand by Psvanes, and the amp appeared to function normally.
Gsm, I am patiently waiting for a response from Matthais or another representative from Elrog in this forum.
When I originally ordered the tubes, I told the vendor the tubes were to be used in a Coincident Frankenstein application, and when Charles' tube failed, I alerted both my dealer and Matthais of my concern, so I did everything possible on my part. As I feared (see my post of 7/7/15 above), the tube failed at 2 days post warranty. |
