Elrog 300B vs Takatsuki 300B tubes

I was interested in buying a pair of the Elrogs and contacted trueaudiophile recently. Unfortunately, they no longer carry them. The guy I talked to said it was a nightmare dealing with all the failures and warrantee issues. I hope someone will carry these tubes once the failure issues are resolved.

Trueaudiophile recommends the Takasuki's over the Elrogs now. I guess it has more to do with reliability than sound quality, but according to TA, the Takasuki's come closest to the vintage 300B sound.

Well, here's a Japanese site that sells Takatsukis. It's about $1,400 USD for a pair. However, they're middlemen so the warrantee doesn't apply to sales outside Japan. If something goes wrong during manufacturer's warrantee, they claim they will take it back and get replacement. Don't know how reputable these guys are. BTW, no refunds even if the tubes are DOA.

http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=1255&category=17

I tried that email several days ago but no response. Do you know if they're still in business?

Got a little excited and didn't read your last sentence. I'm not getting my hopes up with the Amtrans guys.

Charles1dad, did you end up paying import duty fee on the Takatsukis? If so, how much?

Wyan001, I was told by TA the Elrog can only handle DC heating, despite what manufacturer claim. It is my understanding the Big 7 uses AC heating. So I would be very careful.

Wyan, the Takatsukis are suppose to be true 300B through and through, unlike the Elrogs. I'm thinking of getting them for my Golden Gate DAC.

BTW, how did the Elrogs sound with your Big 7? Were they the best sound you heard from your Big 7?

Wyan, that's some high praise for the Elrog. I really like what the Psvane 101Ds do on the Golden Gate. Let's hope Elrog makes a version that can handle AC filament supply.

Dear Matthias, thank you for responding to my concern. I have never used your 300B tube so I have no practical experience with AC filament supply with your tube. I have the Lampizator Golden Gate DAC that can use 300B, 45, or 101D tubes at the output. I really wanted to try the Elrog 300B tubes, but I was told by one of your former retailer in the USA that the Elrog will certainly FAIL if AC filament supply is used. The Golden Gate uses AC filament heating, so I was very disappointed. Do you think Elrog 300B is compatible with the Lampizator Golden Gate DAC?

Dear Matthias, given Elrog 300B failure in Wyan001's Lampizator DAC, I would not take the risk of buying a pair of your 300B tubes, unless I can be assured by you that your tubes will work fine with the Lampizator GG DAC and will be backed up by prompt replacement or refund if failure does occur. I'm really hoping you can assure me. Regards.

Hi Joe, how can one get hold of George Lenz?

I'm surprised you're still sticking with the Elrogs. Metthias posted awhile back the Franks run the Elrogs near the edge if not above the recommended specs for 300Bs. I hope your second set lasts.

Common autocorrect mistake, LOL. I'm not a vampire. I swear! Dracule means "son of the dragon".

Anyways, I'm glad George was able to accommodate your needs. I didn't know Elrog made higher voltage version.

And thanks for the link to George's website.

Thanks Joe and Charles1dad, I talked to George this afternoon. He seems like a stand up guy who's willing to go out of his way to support his customers. I ordered a set of the Elrogs for my GG DAC. Fingers crossed.

Charles1dad and Joe, risk for hum is always there for AC heated GG, especially using high power amplifiers. Even in my current setup, I do get a faint hum through the speakers with my current stock of output tubes, but you have to have your ears 1 to 2 feet away from the speakers to hear it. Hopefully, the Elrogs will be similar. I was about to order a set of the Takatsuki 300Bs, but if the Elrogs work out, I may have saved myself $400. Times have changed. I used to think spending $200 for a pair of DHT triode tubes was a lot. Now that will get barely get you in the door.

Germanboxers, I think you'll be very happy with the GGs. My understanding is the circuitry for GG and Big 7 is exactly the same, just some more boutique/expensive parts in the GG. Mine is black faceplate without remote volume control, so it looks simple, elegant and beautiful with the copper chassis. There shouldn't be any issues if your Elrogs are working fine with your Big 7.

Got the Elrogs today. Will try them out over the weekend.

Charles1dad, thanks. I think the Elrogs in GG DAC is run at 1/10th power compared to amp application. So it may matter. I'll report when I have about 50 hrs on them.

I have about 20 hours on my Elrogs now. How many hours does it take to break in these tubes? I don't want to comment until I'm satisfied I've fully broken them in.

I've about 34 hours on the Elrog on my Lampi. Sorry to say I'm quite disappointed with the sound. Initially, I had great hopes. When I first plugged them in, I heard buttery smooth sound with accurate timbre. However, it was not as transparent, dynamic, tight in the bass, or extended in the highs as the Psavane 101D or the TJ Full Music 300B SE. Even with break in, the overall sound has not changed. The music feels slow with the Elrogs, and they are the least revealing of the tubes I have. Seems like the harmonics are somehow truncated. Not sure how to explain this given all the positive reviews they've received here. I'm wondering if my tubes are either defective or needs more break in.

System synergy is a possibility. I use a Tortuga Audio passive LDR preamp. May there's an impedance mismatch? Tortuga has a new software upgrade so you can vary the impedance of the preamp, which I don't have. May its time to upgrade and see if this will improve the sound.

I don't doubt the Elrog owners who heard improvements with this tube.

My amp has input impedance of 100 kOms and has built in stepped attenuator. I'm going to try hooking my GG DAC directly into the amp bypassing my passive preamp. In some situations, this can dramatically improve the sound. I also spoke toe George a TubesUSA. He recommended trying different types of rectifier tubes including 5R4, 5R4GY, GZ34 and GZ37. He told me to stay away from 5AR4 which draws 4 amps and is too much. I'm currently using the Psvane 274B replica. I also have the EML 5UG that came with DAC which I haven't tried with the Elrogs. I also have a Brimar 5Z4GY coming soon. It was recommended by a fellow Audiogoner who used it in the Lampizator.

I'm so happy! I found the problem.

Thanks Al, for the detailed explanation. Can you point out where on the lampizator site it states the rectifier filament current needs to between 2.4 to 3.0 amps? I'm currently using the Psvane 274B replica tube. Does this tube have filament current in the correct specified range?

Correction. Apparently George at TubeUSA misheard me when I asked him about the 5AR4. He thought I said 5AU4, which draws 4 amps. As Al has pointed out, the 5AR4 draws 2 amps.

Hi Wyan, sorry for the delay. I was listening to my music through the Elrogs. I connected the GG DAC directly to my amp, bypassing my LDR passive preamp. When I did this, there was dramatic improvement in sound. I start hearing all the accolades this tube was known for. The highs were extended, clear, and dynamic. I am hearing fine detail that was absent before. The midrange is much clearer with more emotion. I can hear subtle inflections in voice and instruments that was not apparent before. It is the most transparent tube I have now. The bass now has speed and impact. However, it is not as exended as with the LDR preamp in place. Overall, 90% of the sound was markedly improved. Just goes to show you how impedance mismatch can affect the sound. Interestingly, the Psvane 101D and TJ FM 300B SE sound fine with the LDR preamp. They have none of the issues I experienced with the Elrogs. But I haven't tried them without the LDR preamp yet.

Thanks Wyan. BTW, what rectifier tube did you use in the Lampi with the Elrogs?

Wyan, thanks for reminding me. I forgot it was you in the other forum.

Charles1dad, for awhile I thought I had a bad set. I've gone direct to amp before with mixed results, but mostly positive. The Elrogs seem to be very sensitive tubes on many levels. But Elrogs in the GG DAC seem to have one of the most dramatic change in sound going direct to amp.

Thanks Al. I got the distinct impression from George at TubesUSA to stay away from rectifier tubes that draws more than 2 amps. The list of rectifiers recommended by George for the Elrog 300Bs I think draw no more than around 2 amps (5R4, 5R4GY, GZ34 and GZ37). I'm afraid to try my EML 5U4 (3 amps) with my Elrogs.

Hi George thanks for chiming in. So as far as Elrog 300B in Lampizator Golden Gate DAC is concerned, a rectifier that draws 2A/5V is fine (assuming GG DAC has a separate 3A winding for rectifier tube)?

Based on what George just said, I suppose the answer to my question is a yes.

Dmarkov, I will keep posting. I have EML 45 and RU4, Psvane 101D and 274B replicas, TJ Full Music 300B SE, Elrog 300, and Brimar 5Z4ZY. I have the Takatsuki 273 on the way.

Dmarkov, I will keep posting. I have EML 45 and RU4, Psvane 101D and 274B replicas, TJ Full Music 300B SE, Elrog 300, and Brimar 5Z4ZY. I have the Takatsuki 273 on the way.

Update. Just tried the Takatsuki 274B on my GG DAC over the weekend. The Elrog 300B and Takatsuki 274B tubes are match made in heaven in the GG. Expensive as hell for these tubes, but the best sound I've heard from the GG DAC by far. I've tried Psvane 101D, EML 45 mesh plate, and TJ Full Music 300B SE output tubes with Psvane 274B replica, Brimar 5Z4GY, Sophia Electric Princess Rigid Plate 274B, and EML 5U4 rectifiers with the GG.

The Takatsuki 274B is the best built and most immaculate rectifier tube I've ever seen. It exudes quality, as it should for a $800 tube. It looked like it came from a silicon wafer chip manufacturing facility.