I recently acquired a pair of Dynaudio focus 360's and hope there are folks here that have had these or similar Dynaudio's that can shed some light.
My system currently consist's of a Rega p6 and auralic vega1 into a McIntosh mx110,to a adcom gfa5452 out to the focus 360's.
First off I know these speakers like a lot of power and currant,and I have plans to get a amp with 350 watts per channel.
Here is what is going on.
If I listen below 70% of my maximum listing volume,the sound falls flat on its face and sounds like a cheap radio with 4 inch speakers in it.
If I turn up to 80%,things sound much better,at least modern quality recordings.
Tunn up to 90%,things sound real good,until the singer backs off for a softer vocal delivery.Bam.The vocals fall way way back and way to low.
Same thing with electric guitar.As long as its playing lead up front in the mix it sounds good,but the rhythm guitar just melds into mush.No tight loud crunch where it normally is.
The vocals only sound clear and good when it is a sparse mix,with few instruments competing for space.
Then the vocals sound very very good.
One example:Alison Krauss Baby now that I Found You.
Stunning,I mean it sounded like she had walked up to me and was singing 3 feet from my face.
Please assure me these drop outs in mid-range and vocals will go away with big power and currant.
These speakers sound fantastic with acoustic instruments and drums.
They just can't reproduce electric instruments with the required oomph on my classic rock recordings.
They come close when I crank it to 100% of my listening volume,but still the krang of a Marshall stack is missing.
It is strange how when ever the vocals are just a little bit reserved the volume drops a lot and looses all body,even on the intro of a song.
I'am going to wait until I try these with the more powerful amp before I make my final judgement,just hoping I can get some encouragement here that all will be well.
OP, FWIW, I think your goals in getting and setting up your system may be based on a misconception about what it’s all about. The goal is to set up a system that accurately reproduces the sounds as they are recorded by an engineer in a studio (or live for that matter). Recording wise you get just that. The recording engineer places the mic’s and puts down tracks for each mic. Then he mixes them to reproduce his recording. Then this gets put on a disc or tape, etc. Then you buy it take it home and play it on your system. He did not design/set up your system so is not responsible for what you actually hear. All very obvious, yes?
Now most of your recordings are not made by the same engineers, different engineers, different musical sounding recordings, even with the same music.
In a well matched and set up system you get to hear the recorded music exactly as it exists on the disc.
When I look at your original post I can’t begin to understand where you have heard that music, as recorded, and find such divergence in the sound made by the system depending on the type of music you are listening to. IMO if you set up your system so that you hear one type of music as you want it to sound, without regard to the actual music on the disc, you will alter the sound when you play different types of music, for better or worse.
I would suggest that you rethink your expectations of your systems performance based on its absolute audio performance not your present expectations of how it should sound with one particular type of music.
FWIW I doubt that the amp you have purchased (?) will solve your issues, hope that it does, just doubt it. FWIW, being able to match impedances is important but I don’t think that that issue alone will make the difference you seek. It can make a tonal change for sure and the 10K output of your preamp is unusually high yet resolve your audio issues, I doubt it.
@twangy57 thank you for your response. I obviously read your meaning incorrectly. I hope everything works out for you. Music listening is awesome for many of us, so I always wish the best. As far as stuffing foam in the ports on the 360s, I never heard them that way, but my feeling and experience is that they were designed as a ported box and therefore would sound best this way, at least the way Dynaudio intended with the design. Just have to dial them in within the room, which can take a while. My best, MrD.
I know,I really don't like the idea of restricting the output,but they do supply these with the speakers.
I think they suggest using them when you don't have enough room to move them out far enough,and your getting muddy bass.
I thought you meant listening to certain recordings and how your system performed in different area’s.
To address where did I get 350 watts,I got that by reading many posts on here.
I went back and read every post on the dynaudio focus 360’s I could find.
Many said these speakers need high currant,and while I agree that sounds like over kill,I also talked to someone at dynaudio and they said they have heard back from customers that these speakers like 200-300 watts per channel.
I have heard several conrad johnson tube amps and really liked them.
I know solid state is different but everyone that reviewed these have said there are excellent.
One other thing was the output impedance of my Mac mx110 is 10k,and macintosh recommends a input impedance of at least 100k on any amp you use with it.
There aren’t many solid state amps with that high of a input impedance.
Particularly in the under 5000 range.
I would be glad to hear what amps you think might work well with these speakers.
I was going to go with the Pass labs X250.5. But the input impedance is only 20/30 kohms.
I was told by a couple of audio shops this would not be a good match.
I’am starting to like these speakers even with the Adcom amp now that I have moved them closer to the wall and plugged the back ports with the foam inserts,but of course I know they would probably sound much better with a better amp.
@twangy57thank you for your response. I obviously read your meaning incorrectly. I hope everything works out for you. Music listening is awesome for many of us, so I always wish the best. As far as stuffing foam in the ports on the 360s, I never heard them that way, but my feeling and experience is that they were designed as a ported box and therefore would sound best this way, at least the way Dynaudio intended with the design. Just have to dial them in within the room, which can take a while. My best, MrD.
When I say listen properly, I mean listen in a comparable environment, and with a setup similar to what you would use. Not youtube, not different gear, it takes a long time to learn what you like. It's not about brands. It's about synergy and sound and connection. You can decide you must work with one component and build "around" it.
The most puzzling thing to me is "350 watts per channel". Who needs that? A stadium, maybe....
The bigger and more complex the gear, the harder it is to get it right. The source is usually easy. The amp and the speaker is the tricky part. You have a small space, don't try to overpower it. Go for a sophisticated, fine tuned result, smaller is better. I always had the best sound with simple 2x60 watts amps from audiophile grade manufacturers. Not necessarily expensive but hifi, 2 channel oriented. I can give you a list if you are interested.
There are many posters who ask for advice and don't follow any, that they are given. It's just part of the game. It's also typical to refuse to research and listen properly.
Those are mostly "fly-by" members.
Interesting,
I have never thought of listening properly,could you give a couple examples of how to listen properly.
Are there recordings you would listen to to test your system?
There are many posters who ask for advice and don't follow any, that they are given. It's just part of the game. It's also typical to refuse to research and listen properly.
I've been reading this forum for about 8 or 10 months. I seldom comment for various reasons, and prefer to read and try to learn.
I've learned some things about audio and the people here. There are all kinds of people, no matter where you go, so this forum is no different. There are definitely some grumpy people here. But there are also some kind and thoughtful people, and everything in between.
Some of the threads happening right now are very revealing of people's bad nature and inability to accept others. Whatever, that's life.
Anyway, I don't think you need to apologize for anything. And good luck with your audio mission!
@twangy57 I was not trying to be negative, but I am familiar with the 360s as I have heard them a few times. A great speaker, for the right listener. @jeffbij The Mcintosh MX 110 has a mm phono stage. My best, MrD.
The amp i'am going to get has been recently gone over,and the mac mx110 had a service with about half the tubes being replaced.
Everything was sounding much better,I just replaced the Polk m10's
with the Dynaudio.
Let me be clear,these speakers sound great on most things,it's just the classic rock that I'am very familiar with.
Some times the guitar sounds more in the background than I'am use to.
I have spoke to someone who had these,and said that should go away with the more powerful amp.
Viridian suggested moving the speakers closer to the wall,which I have and he was correct.The vocals are no longer getting to weak when music get's softer.
@twangy57I was not trying to be negative, but I am familiar with the 360s as I have heard them a few times. A great speaker, for the right listener. @jeffbijThe Mcintosh MX 110 has a mm phono stage. My best, MrD.
It’s not this particular thread, it’s all the ones you start asking for basically the same advice, getting it, disregarding it, refusing to audition gear, and then starting a new thread when you get tired of being told to go audition gear.
Have you auditioned the CJ you’re getting? Just sayin
The Premier 350 was a good and capable amp though, so you may have lucked out and may only need appropriate speakers at this time.
@twangy57 - You should see an improvement assuming that:
The CJ is working properly. It is a very nice amp. It is a major step up from the Adcom. However, it is another "vintage" piece that could be as much as 23 years old. So, questions like, has it been recapped? Has it been professionally checked out?, etc.
The McIntosh preamp (vintage again, first made in 1962) isn't having problems. So, same type of questions as above. What shape/age are the tubes? Are they due for replacing?
You don't have a room or enviromental problem.
Your cabling is up to par and in good shape.
and question... I don't remember from your previous posts, what are you using for a phono preamp with the Rega table? and what shape is the cartridge in?
@twangy57 Not quite encouragement, but I am very experienced, and honest. With all of your posts, I hate to be the barer of bad news, but if you are expecting your 360s to reproduce a Marshall stack, at the spl levels I believe you are speaking about, you are fooling yourself. I believe your new amp will be wonderful, at 1st, but certain weaknesses will show themselves quickly, with your speakers. Truth be told, there are speakers that can be cranked, and those that cannot. Dynamic compression is a real thing, with amplifiers, and with speakers. Keep in mind as well, that the louder one plays music in their room, the room itself can show weaknesses, way before your ears. Your use of percentages, 70%, 80%, 90%, is confusing to me. Are these numbers based on the volume control setting of your preamp, or are you using a decibel meter measuring the room from your listening seat? Another thing I always mention in my posts, and you mentioned it here, are the production qualities of the "recorded music" we all are listening to. Such a variation. A great system set up ime, is a system that can play all music at all volume levels, that the listener desires, and enjoys. My best, MrD.
This is like the 6th thread OP had started on this subject. He's been told countless times to go audition speakers in person but no, he can't be bothered to drive to the big city and properly audition speakers. Instead he buys speakers based on YouTube videos.
In the immortal words of the immortal PIL song:
This is what you want
This is what you get
Now toss your garbage amp in the trash where it belongs and go get proper ones. It ain't gonna be cheap but it's gonna sound good. Good luck
+1 with what @ghdprenticesaid. The Adcom GFP-545 II (I'm assuming that is the model, not GFP-5452) most likely struggling. It is around 30 years old and probably in need of a refurb or even failing completely. (Are the distoration lights on the front flashing?)
As for what to replace it with, while more watts is always nice, I would just want to make sure that the wattage comes close to doubling as you go from 8 ohms to 4 ohms. (Example 100 watts @ 8 ohms to 200 watts @ 4 ohm) That is an indicator that the amp a higher current model. Also, with the Focus 360's, avoid going the direction of "bridging" a stereo amp to create a monoblock. The Focus 360's are 4 ohm speakers and a bridged amp will see the load as 2 ohms, which is going to be harder for the amp to drive.
I have tried all the usual things,and the problem is mostly with the vocals.
I have been listening tonight with the volume up about 8/10ths,and they sound pretty good.
They sound great with funk and R&B,it's mostly rock.
It seems they just run out of power when everybody is jamming out,and then they fallback to bring it down for a softer passage,that's when it sounds like I turned the volume down to 2.
I have a new more powerful amp coming,so we will see.
I can’t help but think it has to do with the amplifier. It is very old 1990’s and is know as a high voltage amp. I do not know or pay much attention to design... but that sounds like an unusual claim... and if I remember correctly... that is different from a high current design. If my guess is right... this could be good for electrostatics but very bad for good dynamic speakers.
I’ve heard a lot of Dynauidio speakers and never heard them sound at all like you describe. It is unlikely the Mac... so, your left with the amp.
I don’t think they need 350 wpc... just a good quality contemporary amp... 100 wpc or higher.
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