I was wondering if anyone have try this cable? I have never try the original WE cable but I want to buy this cable for my speaker. Other candidate is supra cable.
I need a lot of cable, about $400-500. If I buy for a start 3 meters 16AWG and listen to it as interblock, I will be able to get a complete picture of the sound of this wire or as acoustic they will behave differently?
I finally got off my lazy behind, and tried the Duelund 16GA bare wire between my Werner Jagusch Crossover, and Altec Valencia drivers. It's in the early going, but I'm really impressed. Compared to my Belden 9497, it is more lively, yet still extremely natural. It makes the 9497 sound restricted, and a tad sluggish.This, to my ears, and in my system. When I tried that same Duelund on on my Harbeth P3's, I was not nearly as impressed. In that application, I preferred my Auditorium. The latter, of course, at a much higher price point. But the Duelund is really supposed to be great with high efficiency speakers. I'm really digging it. Below is the impression of another person who has experience with Duelund.......... DCA16GA tends to be a bit more balanced on the frequency spectrum, DCA20GA adds a bit of upper end detail, DCA26GA adds a bit more mellow bass................... I'm trying decide between the 16GA and 20GA!
I've been thinking of combining two sets of DCA16GA for a 10GA run. Has anyone done this? If so, what was the result. I'm using a single run of DCA16GA now. My speakers only have one pair of posts, so I won't be biwiring.
Just received enough Duelund 12ga to make a pair of speaker cables with 8 single runs to each speaker, or a cross-connected quad to each of the two bi-wire binding post pairs on each speaker - 6 awg per +/- pole per speaker, or 9 awg to each mf/hf post and 9 awg to each lf post - can't wait to hear them
I recently had Parts Connexion make a 1M phono cable for me out of the Duelund wire and Duelund gold RCAs, w/ 1877 DIN. This replaces my Discovery Plus 4.
I was hoping for a slight improvement.. to my surprise, I was greeted with a much wider center stage, more open soundstage, richer textures and a richer tonality. Bang for the buck? That's with no break-in.
Just finished making a pair of bi-wire speaker cables from the Duelund 12ga wire. I have a cross-connected star quad going to the LF and HF of each speaker (8 wires per speaker or 6 awg per pole). Getting the four 12ga wires attached to a single connector was a bear. I tried soldering them but quickly learned that a solder pot would be necessary because the four 12 awg wires twisted together were too thick to solder using an iron or gun. Fortunately, I had a couple of pairs of Furez SP8 SB60NP Bare Copper Spade Speaker Connectors that take up to 4 awg sized wire (the four 12ga wires were equivalent to 6 awg) and attach using two set screws. I used Furutech's FP-201 G High Performance Spades at the speaker ends, which also connect using two set screws. They have been burning in on the Cable Cooker for a day so I will report back as to how they sound next week. In the meantime, I am getting some very good sounds using another of my DIY speaker cables made from braided high quality copper wire in cotton sleeving.
I have a similar speakers setup - Altec 604E +
Werner Jagusch Crossover with
Belden 9497 between crossovers and drivers. I started to use
DCA16GA as speakers cables and I like results. I also try to use
DCA20GA interconnects and I feel they sound a little bit thin, dry and lacking of lushness. What kind of RCA plugs do you use with your Duelund cable interconnects?
I've just installed WE 10AWG in my system. Out of curiosity. I have "good" speaker cables and didn't plan to replace them. All I have to say is I'm impressed. And the cables are not burned in. How long is the burn in period? What should I expect, what improvement did you experience when the burn in had been completed? Thx
"I have a similar speakers setup - Altec 604E + Werner Jagusch Crossover with Belden 9497 between crossovers and drivers. I started to use DCA16GA as speakers cables and I like results. I also try to use DCA20GA interconnects and I feel they sound a little bit thin, dry and lacking of lushness." What kind of RCA plugs do you use with your Duelund cable interconnects? Hi Alex- I haven't gotten too serious with the Duelund interconnects yet. I only have a 1.0 meter (NON-shielded) run terminated with SwitchCraft RCA's. I have not put this through it's paces in an important spot yet. I have played with it (break in...) going from a Sony PS-1 to my Croft phono integrated. I can't make a fair judgement because the gain (output) of the Sony player is too low for the passive PRE in the Croft. The 16 gauge speaker cables have been wonderful going from my Werner XO to 846A drivers... Easily preferred them to Belden 9497. I may return to my Duelund 16 gauge IC for my Harbeth system at one point. Not sure if the lack of shielding will be ok, but may try from a Step-Up in to the Croft MM. I'm still in the process of adding that Step-up, at which point that Harbeth system will be complete.
I used Switchcraft, MSaudio, Vampire C7X, Xhadow RCA-SM, Duelund Gold RCA connectors. I don't like Vampire C7X - it imphases high frequencies and have overall bright tonal balance. MSaudio has great high frequencies and high-mids, but has a gap between mid-frequencies and base. Duelund Gold and Switchcraft sound well balanced. My first impression was, Switchcraft sounds more grainy and Duelund more smooth. I just ordered Switchcrafts to double check it versus Duelund again.
Xhadow sound is very "audiophile". It is smooth, transparent with big sound-stage, open and airy high-frequencies and big base. But mid-range is not as good as Duelund has.
I prefer Duelund 16ga to 20ga cable for interconnects. It sounds more balanced and dynamic. But it has lack of air and high-frequency details.
I'm planing to use Duelund cables from Werner Jagusch crossover to Altec 604E like you suggest in the future. (I'm using Belden 9497 cables).
I changed HF filter capacitor in Werner Jagusch crossover to Duelund RS + Duelund Cu-Sn Bypass capacitors. It was the best upgrade I did in my system for years.
The 16 gauge Duelund has all the detail of the 20 gauge, but a quick comparison to the 20 gauge can make one think the 20 ga is more detailed. Its’s just that the 16ga is more complete with improved weight and body. Listen to both over a two week period and it becomes obvious that the 16ga has all the detail, but it is presented with more top to bottom balance. The upper frequency details don’t leap out for attention, but rather draw you into the music in a more nuanced and natural manner. I also believe there are system and listener preferences that must be understood for the best choice.
The Cardas line of RCAs gives nice touch of natural warmth and smoothness. I have found the KLEI Absolute Harmony to be very neutral and resolving.
Sorry, just saw this. Yes the SLVR as the gold version was just discontinued. Pretty much the same connector as the outer barrel is just silver plated instead of gold. I did not try the Duelund, but would be interesting. The Switchcraft is not as smooth, resolute or nuanced as the KLEI. The Switchcraft is a great value for sure and they sound very good and balanced. They are a tad nervous sounding compared to the KLEI however. This is a slight thing, but this quest for the best sound is about degrees. Ha!
"Well im converted! Just got the Deuland 16ga and can see what all the fuss is about. Amazing stuff. So analog and non electronic sounding!" VERY NICE. In what position are you using the Duelund?
Just have build two pair of cables with the Duelund DCA16GA. One with the Duelund RCA Copper Plug the other with the KLEI Absolute Harmony plugs.
The Duelund RCA Copper Plug sounded from the start much better. More Air, bigger sound stage, tonal more correct. Things got better after more hours of playing time. More smoot transients. One very nice set of cables. A keeper for shure.
Same cable with the KLEI Absolute Harmony plugs started of with a more bloated and heavy bass. Soundstage was messy and more compact. Focals where more in the front but not well ballanced in the total soundstage. The burn-in time is long (400 hours KlE claims on there site). I have not writtem them of yet, but I have to find a way to get a few 100 hours on them without havving to suffer listening to them...it is not the Cable but a match wit this plug and also my set.
Who have tried the rodium version of the Duelund RCA?
@grannyring and others, have any of you used the
KLEI Harmony Banana plugs for your speaker cables (Duelund or WE)? I have exclusively used spades in the past but these interest me. Would be interested in opinions about how they sound and what is the largest gauge wire they will support using.
Yes I have used those connectors when making some cable harnesses for my living voice speakers. The interesting thing is I made the harnesses with bare wire and listened that way for about a month before Using the connectors. I can tell you the differences between bare wire and these connectors! At first the KLEI banana connectors sounded just a little bit brighter than bare wire. However this did go away after about 100 to 150 hours of use. I will tell you that I thought the connectors did not add or subtract anything from the bare wire. This is a very good thing in my opinion. And actually this is the first connector I can honestly say is as good as bare wire. Just be aware that it may sound a tad bit brighter first but that will go away with time.
Thanks Bill, that sounds promising. I see on their website the bananas can be used with wire as thick as 6 awg. I burn in cables on my Audiodharma Cable Cooker so hopefully any brightness would be short-lived.
You guys got me playing with speaker cables again this morning. I had been using my Furutech FP-Alpha cables, which are great but the tinned copper WE and Duelund wire does bring something different to the table. I have been comparing 1M long runs (from my monoblocks) of the WE10ga wire vs. the Duelund 12ga wire. Both cables are bi-wired with four connections at the speaker end and two connections (one pos and one neg) at the amp end. However, the configurations are a bit different with the WE 10ga cables run as two twisted pairs (i.e., 4 wires to each speaker) while the Duelund 12ga cables are two twisted quads that are cross-connected in a star-quad configuration, so 8 wires to each speaker. The aggregate wire area is close with each terminal seeing 10awg from the WE wire and each terminal seeing 9awg from the Duelund wire.
Both of the tinned copper wire cables are a bit fuller sounding than the Furutech, which is OCC wire at 13 awg, also run bi-wired so 13 awg to each terminal. I am hard-pressed to describe much difference between the WE and Duelund cables as they both share similar characteristics. The WE cables may be a bit more midrange-concentric and maybe just a touch more tidy with respect to soundstage but also maybe a bit more resolute in the bass. The Duelund cables, in the configuration described, is fuller sounding but also extends maybe just a bit more at the top end than the WE cables. The Duelund has a bit more bloom (on the edge of too much), which also makes the bass a bit "plumper." I should make a set of the Duelund cables as twisted pairs without doubling up in a quad run to see if they would sound more like the WE wires. (Bill, maybe we could do a temporary swap of a pair of cables to try them out, with you loaning me a bi-wire set of the Duelund cables you are making and I sending you my quad set of Duelunds to try - interested?)
Regarding connectors, I use Furutech spades at the speaker end but had originally used Furez spades at the amp end to accommodate the larg'ish quad of 12 awg Duelund wire but I was able to change them out for Furutech spades, which I like a little better.
I am still interested in bananas but in addition to the KLEI bananas, I am looking at Furutech's
FP-200B(G) Bananas, which are made from phosphor bronze but have a simple set screw connection, like their FP-201 spades.
It would be smart to simply use one run of the Duelund 12 gauge instead of doubling up. You should find this improves the sense of air and resolution and backs off a tad on the bloom etc...
I plan to make one last pair of speaker cables using Duelund 12ga wire twisted as bi-wire pairs (i.e., one 12 awg wire to each speaker terminal) and KLEI bananas all around. I look forward to hearing the result.
I compared Duelund DCA16GA and DCA20GA as RCA interconnects. Yes
DCA16GA has fuller base and lover mid and less dry, but DCA20GA sound much more vivid. So it depends from overall system tonal balance. In some dark sounded or dull systems
DCA20GA can sound better and DCA16GA can sound better in dry or bright systems.
Most of my customers prefer the 16ga over extended listening periods when comparing the two. However, as you say sometimes it may come down to individual preferences and system needs.
I ordered the additional 12 awg Duelund wire for a pair of bi-wire speaker cables yesterday. I was planning to use the KLEI bananas for terminations but checked my supply and found I already have plenty of new spades so will use those instead of buying additional banana connectors.
@grannyring do you have any suggestions for use with the 12 awg Duelund wire, between the following spade connectors? Based on the picture of your BBQ speaker cables, it appears you are using something similar to the Vampire spades or maybe the Audioquest
1056G lug
spades. Below is what I have in stock. - Cardas 1/4" spade, bare copper (GRS C)
- Vampire
1/4"
SPD Spade Lug 10/12awg copper with direct gold plating - Furutech
FP-203(G) 5/16" 24K Gold-Plated Alpha pure copper
@jaybe PartsConnexion is certainly going strong. They are offering a price reduction on the Duelund wire currently...at least they were yesterday when I bought some. They also have a quite favorable price on the KLEI banana connectors, if you were thinking about using those.
@grannyring I agree with you about how good the Furutech spades sound and
on almost all my terminations
I have used either the FP-203 (crimp or solder connection) that I have available for this project or the FP-201 (bigger and with set screws). Both of these spades are pure Alpha copper with gold (my choice) or rhodium plating. I have previously used my hydraulic crimp tool with the FP-203 spades but this time I think I will lightly crimp with a hand tool and then solder. The solder should mix with the tin plating and create a more homogeneous connection.
Yes I also lightly crimp and solder the Furutech. I like the gold better than Rhodium. I have found the Rhodium plating a tad bit too detailed on some other builds vs gold. Very subjective thing and I am sure not a universal rule? What have you found?
I have found the Rhodium plating a tad bit too detailed on some other builds vs gold. Very subjective thing and I am sure not a universal rule? What have you found?
I agree with you and might add the word "splashy" sometimes, maybe a bit of glare with the wrong equipment. I also like gold because it matches up with most typical binding posts, and with typical connectors that manufacturers use on their equipment. I don't see an advantage to dissimilar materials as connectors. I gave up on rhodium a long time ago. I believe Cardas likes rhodium because it is harder and presumably wears better.
I hooked up the Duelund DCA 16 GA last night and listened to a couple LP`s. Today I put a CD on repeat and have been playing the system at a very low volume.
Should I be concerned about pushing my 300 Watt amp using these cables into my Revel speakers ? The cable length is 6 Ft on each side, single run. Technically from what I`ve read I should be ok but I just wanted to ask.
Wondering if anyone has tried or has input on this.
My speakers are biwirable. I am running a single run of DCA16GA to my speakers (mid/woofer posts)....then using the same cables to jump from my mid/woofer posts to the tweeters.Just like Jeff does.
Thinking of getting a meter of the 20GA and 12GA to use as jumpers. Anyone tried or have any idea on how it would turn out sonically? I am thinking the 20GA may produce a cleaner sounding treble but don't know if it will produce more top end energy than the currently used 16GA. I have no idea about 12GA.
I think 20 ga is not the best idea when used as a jumper to the highs. I would use 16ga and have. No need to make jumpers at all if you use bare wire. Strip the wire with enough bare wire length to first wrap around the woofer binding posts and then run them up to the highs. Less hassle, less complexity with fewer breaks and connections/terminations.
Will this sound as good as true biwire cables? No way to know as you have to try to really know as it is speaker dependent. Run 16ga for the highs and 12 ga for the lows.
After reading your post again I think you are using the method I outlined. I would connect the 16ga to the highs and try the 12ga as a jumper to the lows. Better idea in my opinion. 20 gauge is not wise as a jumper as you will find the result lacking in weight and body (bloom) compared to the 16 or certainly the 12 ga.
grannyring...I`m actually thinking that maybe the 16ga is a better fit for my speakers. With the bass handled by 3- 6.5" woofers in each speaker I wonder if the thinner (16GA) would help in not over dampening them for a little fuller bass. Just a thought :)
I have two 6.5 inch woofers per speaker and prefer Duelund 12ga and Western Electric 10 ga over the Duelund 16 ga. But, my runs are very long and I prefer a nice full bodied sound that has bloom and meat on the bones. The 12ga Duelund and 10 ga Western Electric have this in spades!
I just finished making a set of Duelund quad core wound jumpers using 4 runs of the 16 gauge Duelund wire terminated with the excellent Furutech FP203G spades. I jumped from the bass posts up to the highs on my Dali Epicon 6s. I am very pleased with the initial sound. Very. The combined gauge is 10.
As a rough rule of thumb, if you're braiding four strands of wire, what is the ratio of the length of the unbraided wire to what you end up with? I.e. how much shorter is it? 1/2? 1/4? Or?
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