Duelund conversion to DIY Helix Geometry Cabling

The last of the five Ohno Continuous Casting patents was issued in 1991, so these patents are all expired and anyone can make this product without license. I don't know whether there are trademarks on the name though, which could survive well past the patents. 

The OCC process is fairly costly, particularly with higher gauge materials, since the length of wire that can be produced at one time is much shorter. It's hard to believe that all the product we see on the market that claims to be OCC, really is. I don't know how this could be verified, other than by the reputation of the producer.

PC OCC (Purity Copper - Ohno Continuous Casting) is a Japanese design for a Wire and has been produced under a Patent and known as the name PC OCC.
This Wire is no longer produced by Furukawa and is maily offered by Furutech who purchsed most of the final stock.

UP OCC ( Ultra Pure - Ohno Continiuous Casting )
Is made under the same Patent but is from another juristiction as the Furukawa produced Cable.
UP-OCC has not been stopped as a manufactured wire, but has been upgraded as a design to be UP-OCC a  (Alpha)
This is a cryogenic treated version that Furutech have become involved with.

Furukawa today offer PC Triple C as the replacement wire for PC OCC and the crystal structure is different in the Triple C.
It seems to work well wit Nano Treatment as to Cryo Treatment.

D.U.C.C
Is the purist of the modern wires, it is very different in the crystal structure to PC OCC, through the Crystal alignment, which are even more aligned by a In House Treatment which is referred to as 'Stress Free'

@diertiti - UP-OCC is a process and to be able to use that particular "code" i would have to guess that it is very tightly controlled and therefore the quality is consistent across all brands.

I would also like to think that Parts Connecxion also has protocols in place when sourcing their products which would ensure product quality.

You could try calling Parts Connecxion and see if they can put your mind at rest

But - If you are concerned about the quality you should buy the Neotech wire

I have not tried it, but there may be others that have

Sorry I could not be more helpful

Thanks for all the answers gents. @williewonka I'm on the cusp of ordering but not sure if the Parts Connexion nake UP-OCC would be up to the quality of the Neotech, have they been pretty much comparable to the sonics of the stripped Neotech?

@mawe - try Parts Conenxion for "naked" UP-OCC

https://www.partsconnexion.com/occ6n-copper-hook-up-wire.html.

They carry most gauges suited to the Helix Cables

But I am still not certain whether the "Air" adaption on the neutral is worth the effort

Regards - Steve

@ divertiti

I have done the „outer“ coil as „airadotption“ using a 6mm Teflon tube on a 1.5sqmm wire on some power cords.
For further protection I did use an additional 10mm PVC tube over the Teflon tube, (PC at 230V).
It was easy to slide the wire into the PTFE tube, but the PVC tube had been a bit more difficult, but worked.
I used to twist the 2 outer wires (2x 15 AWG) together by hand at the same time.

The PTFE tube needs to be longer as the wire, as it shortens after  twisting.
However, I‘m not sure if it is worse the extra work. My concern is, stripping the insulation may damage (cut) the OCC wire and this may „eliminate“ some of the benefits. If one could get the OCC wire naked, I would probably do the Air-Adaption.

@divertiti - RE:

One thing I’m unclear on is how to coil the 16ga neutral if it is being created using the air tube method? If the bare wire is free floating inside the tube, how do you coil it with the drill?

I’ve never made and "Air" neutral.

Personally for me, it poses too much of a problem inserting such a long wire into the teflon tube

The signal wire on my 9ft speaker cables took some effort inserting the wire

1. the wire needs to be as straight as possible
2. the tube has to be held as straight as possible

To coil it with a drill I would probably

1. cut the wire 2-3 inched longer than the tube
2. first tape the wire to the rod and then tape the tube to the rod
3. then wind as normal

I would select a tube that is just a little bigger than a single strand fo bare wire

RE: -

has there been a consensus on which sounds better:
1. Putting two bare UPOCC conductors in a twisted pair inside a single PTFE tube
or
2. Insert each bare UPOCC conductor into its own PTFE tube first then twist the two tubed run into a twisted pair?

Electrons have a propensity to stay within the physical boundary of each strand of wire and only "jumps" to another strand if the amount of energy being transferred exceeds the "capacity" of that strand (or a faster route to ground is provided).

The signal in Interconnects is "low energy" and using 2 x 18 gauge wire would probably result in very few electrons making the jump between the two strands.

For speaker and power cables I use a separate tube for each wire

For Interconnects I simply twist the wires together first and insert into a single tube. This allows for a little more "wiggle room" in order to to tighten the coil down around the signal wire in order to install the RCA housing without any difficulty.

But if I have to guess - having each wire in a separate tube would probably sound "MARGINALLY" better.

Hope that helps

Regards - Steve

Also one more question for @williewonka @grannyring and @wig , has there been a consensus on which sounds better:
1. Putting two bare UPOCC conductors in a twisted pair inside a single PTFE tube
or
2. Insert each bare UPOCC conductor into its own PTFE tube first then twist the two tubed run into a twisted pair?

@williewonka Thanks Steve. I made a Spdif today using 2x18ga Neotech UPOCC (stock insulation) and 16ga mil-spec as neutral (will switch out when 16ga UPOCC arrives). I made it to be 1.27m long and it performs fantastically. So much so that it's not giving much ground to a Nordost Valhalla 2 spdif after A/B. Now on all my helix cables, there is an expansiveness to the sound at the expense of tonal density. That's the last area that I think the Nordost cable does better. I suspect the slightly looser density is due to the milspec wire so will report back when I switch out the neutral.

One thing I'm unclear on is how to coil the 16ga neutral if it is being created using the air tube method? If the bare wire is free floating inside the tube, how do you coil it with the drill?

Correction to my Last Post
The Acrolink Wire is D.U.C.C  
From  my most recent use of D.U.C.C used both on a Full Solid State System and now my own Full Valve System.
D.U.C.C Wire has tremendous capabilities at separating a singer and instrument and exgtending a Soundstage.
Between CDT and DAC the old used cable is completely relegated.
Between SUT and Phonstage the whole presentation becomes much more real and the sense of honesty has been further reiterated. 

As an update to my search for Chassis Mount 3 Pin Female XLR Connectors.
I have found a part with a PC OCC a (Alpha) as the main pin.
It is a Furutech FT-786F, this type of part gives added confidence to the route I am taking, it is not too expensive either, and only two are required to commence the new set up.

I have extended my search further to discover PC CCC Wire that miight prove useful in the Double Helix Power Cord Design.

Acrolink do a Speaker Cable.
I have done a few searches over the past week and have seen used cable for sale at a not too extorionate asking price.
Shipping and Import will be required on most I have seen if exporting to the UK.
The Wire is available in 10 AWG and 14 AWG.  

@in_shore -
WRT...’

A question to anyone , has anyone tried Furutechs F1-50s NCF ends on their helix power cords ?

I would have to guess that by the lack of responses to your question, nobody has "invested" in the Furutech connectors.

I have tried a few brands of plugs and the silver plated copper from Sonar Quest provided the best sound on my system and to my ears.

The brands I have tried in order of preference...

1. Sonarquest Silver plated Copper
2. Vanguard Silver plated Copper - a very close second to Sonar Quest
3. Oyaide Gold plated deoxidized Phosphorus Bronze
4. Marinco brass
5. Wattgate brass

Furutech products are manufactured to the highest standards for extreme applications and they price them accordingly, but for Audio applications, I consider many of their products as "overbuilt" - i.e. it’s a bit like using a sledgehammer to drive in a thumb tack

But if expense is no object - go for it :-)

Hope that helps - Steve

@divertiti  - WRT:  I only have 18ga unocc, do you think the shield/return needs to be thicker like 16ga?

Unless you are specifically performing  comparisons of wire you would not notice any difference there "might" be. Any difference would be miniscule

UP-OCC wire is amazing stuff, so there would be very little if any difference between 16 gauge and 18 gauge when used for the neutral

Use the 18 gauge - it will sound fantastic !

Regards - Steve

@divertiti - WRT; Cable length...

Since many people on this forum have reported better results wit cables longer than 1.5 meters you migfht think it would be the case with all cables.

However, we are talking about the Helix geometry with KLEI Harmony RCA plugs

The RCA plugs are what makes any SPDIF cable sound better, because with those you can get great performance even with a shorter cable.

Then factor in the Helix Geometry and you have yourself an extremely good cable

I have used Helix cables as a SPDIF link with the harmony RCA’s at 2 meter, 1 meter, and 0.5 meter, all identical wire and plugs and I could not tell the difference.

My last SPDIF was in my system for around 2 years and was the 0.5 meter version with

1. Silver Harmony RCA’s
2. SIGNAL: 1 x 24 gauge Neotech solid silver with Teflon insulation
3. NEUTRAL: 1 x 16 gauge silver plated mil-spec wire

If I were to build one today, knowing what has been posted in this thread alone, I would probably fabricate as follows for the very best performance

1. KLEI Absolute Harmony RCA’s
2. SIGNAL: 2 x 18 gauge solid, bare UP-OCC twisted - inside a teflon tube
3. An optional cotton sleeve over the Signal conductor assembly (personal preference)
4. NEUTRAL: 1 x 16 gauge solid, bare UP-OCC with Teflon insulation
5. and make it the length that suites your application

The only other option that may make a difference would be to use 2 x 18 gauge bare UP-OCC solid silver for the SIGNAL wire

Alas, I have to rely on others like @wig , for their excellent feedback and observations regarding SPDIF cables because I no longer have them in my system

Hope that helps - Steve

@ divertiti,

I have only used what Williewonka has recommended; 16 Ga as the Neutral. Let us know what you think after complete burn-in.

Wig

That's great to know, I only have 18ga unocc, do you think the shield/return needs to be thicker like 16ga?

@ divertiti

Mines are right around 1.5M and are outfitted with KLE Silver Harmony based upon Williewonka extensive testing of the KLE plugs with SPDIF.

Wig

Thanks Wig, what length do you make them? I heard it has to be at least 1.5m... and what rca plugs do you use? I have only the Klei absolute harmony rcas but not sure if they are good for digital

@ divertiti

I have made over 4 versions of the Helix SPDIF and with milspec cabling it still beats most cables but when you use OCC on both signal and ground; you have a world class cable...

Wig

Question for the experts, would a Helix spdif cable sound good? Would one made using 18ga Neotech UPOCC on both signal and shield perform better than 16ga milspec on shield?

A question to anyone , has anyone tried Furutechs F1-50s NCF ends on their helix power cords ? 
I’m just curious though the price for a pair makes me laugh ..
Currently I have the Sonar Quest aluminum barrel ends which because of the light weight don’t sag out of the socket.

Steve
         Thank You for the pointers.
I will commence planting seeds in the EE's mind about the intentions for the internal of the Chassis.
The change to XLR is for myself a new concept and very little knowledge has been acquired by myself on the use of the method, be it connections or Cable.
The Tiger is taken  by the Tail and the journey into the unknown has almost commenced.
Pretty Typical to my usual attitudes displayed in the producing of my HiFi System.  

@pindac regarding...

Chassis mount connectors - These would be good ifoyu like Silver plated copper
Silver plated female XLR chassis mount socket | Hifi Collective

Otherwise go for the Gold plated Copper

RE:  Any thought on adopting this as a approach will be well received.

You can use the Helix design internally - one DIYer I know of replaced all his power wires in all components with the helix and was very impressed with the outcome
- so the Helix XLR leads should also work very well

RE: If the Double Helix is a Good Idea to be used within the Power Amp's then this again will be replicated within the Pre' Builds.
Any thoughts are welcome.

Again - I see no reason not to use the helix XLR wherever possible

Is it really necessary though?

Well - my answer to that is - if you want the very best fidelity and money is not object - why not

I have a power distribution box and my last modification was replacing the 1 foot of neutral wire with UP-OCC bare copper (the Air Adaption) inside teflon tube and it made a discernible improvement for the better.

But as you may have read in this thread, not everybody likes the UP-OCC wire and particularly the "Air" adaption.

So some changes may not be for everyone.

Hope that helps - Steve

Additional Advice Required.
The Power Amp's as previously informed are going to be altered to be a Balanced Operation, swapping the Chassis Female RCA's for 3 Pin Female XLR's.
Unfortunately I am restricted by the engineers request to use one Connection Port, RCA Connection will not be available.
The suggestion is to reconfigure the Male XLR's if  unbalanced is wished to be achieved at some time.

I am trying to search out a High Puity Metal Female XLR to mount in the Chassis.
I have found Pure Copper with Gold Plating and Tellurium Copper with a Gold Plating.
The Types found with the metal above are not with a Locking Mechanism between the connectors.
Any thoughts on the Quality of a XLR connector/connection will be well received.
 
The Engineer has informed me that the New Cable to be used within the Amplifier will be a Microphone Cable.
I have been thinking this one over and a thought that has developed and not yet discussed with the Engineer, is if the internal wire can be a pre assembled Double Helix Design.
Any thought on adopting this as a approach will be well received.

A Pre Amp that looks like it will be my final Pre', had been on hold as a Build Project, due to having been loaned a version of the same design built as a Stereo Pre'.
My Pre Build is now going to be redesigned and produced as a Balanced Pre, some of the parts are already being acquired.
Again the XLR's chosen for the Power Amp will also find their way onto the Pre' Chassis.
If the Double Helix is a  Good Idea to be used within the Power Amp's then this again will be replicated within the Pre' Builds.
Any thoughts are welcome. 

It is proving difficult to find information on XLR usage reviews from comparisons outside of the sources of infoormation within this thread and the Links that can be sought.    

The Following is a report I have made on another Thread.
The Report is about Standard 5 Pin DIN to RCA IC’s, with Three Different Production Methods used for the Wires.
I will assume D.U.C.C is the Purist Copper, then PC Triple C and OCC.
I will assume that D.U.C.C have a crystal shape and alignmement that differs to OCC.

I am in a position to make a PC Triple C Double Helix IC, as the Wire materials are now with me.

The System used is a SS System.
It is familiar to me and I have had appriximately 20-30 Hours of listening to it Prior to COVID, I also got a few hours listening during 2020 when restrictions allowed for it, and when I loaned the D.U.C.C. IC’s
_________________________________________________________

On Friday of this week an opportunity was taken to visit a friend now we can visit to anothers Home in the UK.
COVID restrictions on Travel are eased and well received.

During this Visit the Resident HiFi was on the agenda, as well as Cables.
Three Cables were put to use as Tonearm Phono Cables.

OCC is the resident Cable Wire, D.U.C.C Wireand PC Triple C Wire were to be compared to OCC and each other.

OCC was first in use and it was delivering the performance to the ususal very high standard.

The exchange to D.U.C.C was immediately noticeable, there was a clearer insight to the presentation.
The Vocal became noticeably separated and the space around certain instruments was present.
A richness was also perceived, which was an addition to the authority of the performance.

The PC Triple C was the last up for the demonstration.
This was even more noticeable for the Clarity Perceived over the OCC.
There was a lift and lightness/finesse noticed to be present across the frequency range.
The off centre seat was also offering a insight into the performance with an added information, when not in the Centre Seat the performance did not appear to be at a loss.
The sound stage had taken on a new dimension.
Both the system owner and myself were of the opinion that the
PC Triple C has produced a delivery that is feeling much more real and honest when compared to OCC.
We were as a end discussion wondering how the combination of
PC Triple C and D.U.C.C would combine.
The thoughts were the Clarity of the two wires are very similar, the extra lift and dimension of the soundstage of PC Triple C, along with separation ability and rich tone offering from the D.U.C.C could be a wonderful marriage.

@ Steve,
thx for your thoughts.

I was surprised about the positive effect of the “shielded L” conductor, since the LPS only draws approx 60mA at 230VAC. This is a low current load on 2x 16 AWG wires and the induced EMI should be low. 
I would expect, that the positive effect could be even greater on higher current load situations, ie higher wattage devices.

Yes, the shield is only connected on the mains plug, not the IEC side.

2 reasons, I did not apply the “Air adaption”:
- safety / with having a conductive Metall shield on the L conductors I want to be on the save side.
- on my LPS for the digital audio components I do not favour the “naked” sound, could “sound” too lean.

@mawe - my thoughts...

• the shielding should "drain" any EMI generated noise created by the current passing through the LIVE conductor
• this should result in less noise being induced into the neutral conductor
• this should result in a quieter background
• the same shielding technique is used on each twisted pair in CAT8 cable, to achieve higher bandwidth transmissions

You might want to try the same thing, but apply the Air adaption i.e.

• 2x 16 AWG Neotech BARE OCC solid core wire inside a teflon tube
  
• then insert that assembly inside a cotton tube
• and finally insert that assembly into the shielding
• NOTE: do not use the teflon tape

This would improve the overall performance and probably improve on the quiet background

I assume you are only connecting the shield at the mains plug end of the power cable (i.e. a floating shield) and NOT at both ends.

Keep us posted - steve

Update on making a helix power cord:

Wonder, if someone has done it and if so, what is your experience?

What I did today:
A 1m long 230V power cord tested on my DIY linear power supply for my streamer and DAC, which delivers 12VDC and 5VDC. The DAC uses only 8 VA and the streamer less than 4 VA.

L =
2x 16 AWG Neotech OCC solid core in PTFE twisted together (2 x / 1cm). Wrapped plumbers PTFE around it.
Added a cotton sleeve on top.
Put this into a braided copper shielding, which is connected to mains plug for drainage.
N = 2x 2.5sqmm Jantzen silver plated copper stranded wire in PTFE and same for GND coiled around a 8mm Aluminium rod. Slides over the “L” conductor. It is a very tight fit.

Plugs are SonarQuest Silver plated with clear housing.

Whats new compared to my former PC with basically the same configuration is the shielding of the inner L conductor by using the braided shielding.

I think it is better than without the shielding. Seems to have a quieter background. No loss of dynamics.

@mawe
Excellent - thank you so much. That was also my guesstimate based on your previously described observations regarding sound quality vs AWG.

Your input has been highly informative and much appreciated.

@williewonka 
Thank you for explaining the road from initial trials to where you are today. That nailed a few uncertainties and corrected some misunderstandings.
So far - we are observing tremendous gain in sound quality based on your cable design. Now we just need to extract the final drops of musical enlightenment choosing the best wires for our individual systems.

@ provst

Are you using solid core or stranded wire from Neotech for the ground wires?

yes, solid core.

Yes ignore yesiamjohn’s comment as he has not built one of these or listened to one.  He likes to provoke.  These double helix designs make some of the best sounding ICs, digital cables and USB cables I have heard.  No doubt about it. 

Steve, ignore the uninformed comments. I have grannyring's version of the Helix design - 2 sets of RCA cables , and both digital spdif and usb cables, and they offer great musicality. 

yesiamjohn 's posts here and elsewhere indicate that he is thread polluter and best ignored. 

@ yesiamjohn - regarding your statement...

Come on lets not spread false info. SPDIF, USB, etc. all need to be impedance matched. This would be a bad idea for those types of cables.

Then - if you possess the knowledge to make such a statement please explain why many people who have actually tried the helix cables, prefer them to some very expensive impedance matched cables from some of the top brands.

They actually trust their ears and not what others "believe to be so"

It would appear that you have NOT tried the helix cables, so I suspect your thoughts are based on conjecture and "old school" thinking and not on actual trial and observations

I have received very negative comments from many others in the past, but the FACT remains, the Helix cables are outperforming some TOTL cables from established brands like Nordoist and Inakustik, to name but a few

You are of course free to believe whatever you want, but it is you that will be missing out on some very fine cables

Also, as you may have read, this thread is for the benefit of others that are interested in the continued development of the Helix design.

Regards - Steve

Come on lets not spread false info. SPDIF, USB, etc. all need to be impedance matched. This would be a bad idea for those types of cables. Maybe it will do no damage to the power delivery lines of USB. The added inductance of the air coil may even help.   I just realized you made a spark plug wire.

• OK, so let's take a look at the history of the Helix

1. I first started the Helix design with a single Live or Signal wire and that had a thicker gauge neutral - approximately twice the gauge
2. The thicker gauge neutral provided significant sonic benefits
3. The power cables having a thicker gauge neutral looked strange, so I used two 12 gangue neutrals ONLY to have a thicker neutral - nothing to do with the double shotgun approach
4. Then the double shotgun approach was introduced for the interconnect signal and neutral wires, but I found that one soruce sounded better with a double signal wire and a single neutral wire
5. The double live was then introduced into the Power cables, which already had a double neutral anyway 
6. The speaker cables adopted the double signal wire, but kept the 10 gauge neutral, however some people have adopted a 2 x 12 gauge neutral
7. The "Air" was the latest revamp of the entire lineup
8. Then following on from Wig's success with the Solid Neotech UP-OCC copper for the neutral on his power cables I then tried a single wire Solid UP-OCC Neotech on the Interconnect neutral and it too proved very good
9. I then decided to try a single wire neutral  on my PC's using the stranded Neotech UP-OCC wire to see if it would provide improved sound just as the Solid Neotech wire had. 
10. I chose stranded wire because the solid takes a lot of effort when stretching  the coils along the Live Conductor and I wanted to see if the stranded was easier - it was

So I posted my findings and @wig confirmed my observations were very similar to his single Neotech UP-OCC solid copper neutral.

Why did I choose not try a double helix neutral? Simply because Wig had used a single wire on his PC version and I wanted to see how the two wires compared.

So I hope that has cleared up why I chose to go with a single wire

So here I am with a mix of cables 

My interconnects

• use a single 16 gauge solid UP-OCC Teflon Helix neutral 
• with a bare 2 x 18 gauge solid UP-OCC  in teflon tube signal wire

MY speaker cables 

• use a single 10 gauge mil-spec Helix neutral wire
• with a bare 2 x 16 gauge UP-OCC copper in a teflon tube signal wire

My heavy duty power cables

• use a single Helix 12 gauge stranded UP-OCC Teflon neutral
• with a bare 2 x 14 gauge solid UP-OCC in teflon tube Live wire

My Source power cables

• use a 2 x12 gauge stranded Mil-Spec neutral
• with a bare 2 x 16 gauge solid UP-OCC in teflon tube Live wire

The sound my system now produces is stunning - better than any system I have auditioned

What has surprised me about the latest adaptions on the helix geometry is just how good the sound now is and I find it hard to believe that adding a second UP-OCC neutral to my Interconnects or my power cables will improve the sonic performance in a significant way - so I do not plan on changing my cables in the near future - I want to enjoy listening to some music - instead of listening for improvements.

But by all means, somebody try the dual UP-OCC neutral on the Interconnects and the dual stranded UP-OCC copper on the power cables and see if they sound significantly better then a single UP-OCC neutral.

Hope that answers the many questions raised in the last few posts

Regards - Steve

@mawe 

Excellent - just as Chris Venhaus describes his cable.

I’m contemplating mixing things and design principles up a bit. Incorporate Steve’s idea by twisting the 28GA and 24GA as you describe, put them into Teflon tubes, intertwine them and make a double helix from 24 and 22GA Neotech UP-OCC PTFE. Could prove worthwhile....?!

Are you using solid core or stranded wire from Neotech for the ground wires?

@ provst reg VH Audio balanced IC

http//www.venhaus1.com/diysilverinterconnects.html

basically it is the above linked design.

I use to buy a 6 mm twisted robe from home depot which consists of min 3 smaller robes twisted together. (1€/m). 
I than cover the robe with plumber- PTFE tape by twisting it around the robe over the full length. This prevents the robe to "split" when coiling the wire onto it and does a kind of insulation from the base material of the robe, which mostly is a kind of PE material. This robe should now show 3 "grooves" twisting along the run of the robe.
These "grooves" are now my "spacers" between the +, - and GND wires.
I then prepare the conductors by using 2 wires (1x 28 and 1x 24 AWG of 7N OCC silver in cotton for + and -) and twist them by hand, 1 twist every 1 cm.
Then I twist these double conductors along the robe in the grooves of the robe. After doing this for the 3 wires I use again the plumber PTFE tape and run this twice over the whole construction. This does a kind of fixation of the conductors to reduce "vibrations" from external and internal and gives it a neat look.

@aniwolfe 

I fully agree. 
Steve is definitely on the path of Neotech now.
I was just curious about why he had skipped the second helix for Neutral when using Neotech. That was one of my original two questions.

@mawe

Highly inspiring and informative post!
I sincerely thank you for the wealth of experience you’re sharing.

You’re absolutely correct, when stating the requirements for PE, N and L here in Europe. I hadn’t put sufficient notice to this part, as I was inspirationally and blindly following the adventures of Steve and others. The legislation in US can of course be totally different, as they are running at lower voltage.
Now - situation is quite clear. If I want to run double helixes on Neutral, I will also have to have a double run of PE to fulfill requirements. Not the way to go..There is also another requirement stating that Live conductor cannot be less than half of PE. That requirement is fulfilled though.
Thus - suddenly reinvestment in Neotech was cut by half when only one helix is appropriate and correct.

Great information on solid core vs stranded vs size in conjunction to sound quality.
Would you mind detailing how you made a balanced interconnect using the principles of VH Audio? I studied their description, but it did not sound as a straight and easy path to follow.
I can easily convert the balanced cable on trial here, as I have double helixes, so it will be quite simple to take them apart in two separate strings. So far I have only used Duelund 20GA and 18GA Neotech UP-OCC copper as signal (ve+ and ve-) and mil spec as helix. I’m not sure I have hit the right combination yet, which is why your take on a balanced cable could provide some new insights. So far Neutrik has been the choice of connector while in trial mode, but Oyaide is in for the more permanent setup.

@provst
I am going to assume Steve prefers 1 Strand of 12g Neotech over 2 Strands of 12g Mil Spec for the Neutral cable on the powercord?

From Steve’s website for Power Cable build:
" The Neutral Conductor...

The Neutral Conductor is made from two lengths of the Mil Spec 12 AWG Silver Plated Copper Wire listed above.

Why two pieces? - this effectively make the neutral wire a 9 gauge conductor, which I have found performs much better than a single 12 gauge wire, resulting in faster dynamics, better bass performance and control and more natural imaging."

@ provst 
few comments to your topics:

1.) PCs 230V AC 
I found no difference for neutral using 2x 1,3sqmm or 1x 2,5sqmm Jantzen wire.
Be aware, being in 230V country, the PE (Ground-) wire must be minimum the size of the L/N conductors. With the double neutral helix like Steve proposes, this is not given.
If the extra expenses for Neotech OCC as N is worth the gain in sound, I do not beleave, since you already have purchased the MIL wire. Solid core vs stranded- well, my experience is, that solid core thicker than  16 AWG is not “sounding” good in PCs (230V country). This is the reason, I use stranded Jantzen silver plated wire as neutral.
Its all personal taste and component synergies. In some applications I do not like the helix PC with Neotech OCC 2x 16 AWG at all. Prefere stranded wire in different configuration.

2.) Balanced IC as helix design
I do not believe, the helix design is best suited for balanced IC, unless you do 2 single ended (RCA) cables for 1 XLR cable. One, where centre wire is ve+ and an other where centre wire carries ve-.
The ve+ and ve- in the helix design are “undefined “ running next to each other.

A much better design for Balance IC is the VH Audio receipe, where + and - and GND is “ at controlled distance to each other, having capacity and inductance within the cable “controlled “.

I do not like the Neotech OCC copper wire in the IC’s. Have tried a few different configurations with different wire diameters.

My “best” sounding balanced IC is made according the VH Audio receipt but with 1x 28 AWG and 1x 24 AWG VH Audio OCC silver in cotton wire twisted for ve+ and ve-  and 1x 24 and 1x 22 AWG Neotech OCC copper in PTFE as ground.
Connectors are ETI Kyro silver XLR soldered with Cardas solder.

This balanced VH Audio wire with Neutrik silver plated connectors outperforms the Neotech OCC copper in the same design with ETI Kyro plugs easy.

The ETI Kyro XLR plugs are 10x more expensive than the Neutrik. Of course they are not 10x better, but surprisingly audible better, more than I expected.

The Neotech XLR cable sounds impressive and really great Hi-Fi, the VH Audio sounds like “music” 
Difficult to describe until you experience it yourself. It’s got NO “silver” sound, it is smoother, richer, more texture, air, ambient and bass is better. Sounds weird? Yes, but that’s what I hear with my ears, my brain, my equipment in my room.

If the equipment and the speakers are not at a very high level, it may be different, since the amount of micro details could show all the flaws in the chain.

just my 2 cents...

@aniwolfe 

Really?? - I was of the impression, that people on here argued for double shotgun principle on interconnects, power but also on speaker cables...

You are correct, that D. Schroeder on his website only published his findings on interconnects, but I think I saw somewhere, that he too would investigate if the effect was also present in speaker cables. Could be wrong though!

Anyways - if this turns out to be the guideline then we’re in for saving serious money as Neotech don’t come cheap.

Then again - why the recommendations to go with double helixes on power cables?

@provst

Double Shotgun (Schroeder Method) they are referring to is for Interconnect only. Check Doug Schroeder’s Method on Audiogon Forum. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/doug-schroeder-method-double-ic?highlight=doug%2Bschroeder

@williewonka 

If there are benefits to be had using a double helix even with Neotech, then we must consider going with that option.

So far comments from @grannyring and others have been favourable towards the double shotgun principle, which is why I asked questions regarding the return to single helix in the first place, when changing to Neotech. It made us wonder, if the double helix had been skipped or deemed unnecessary when using Neotech.

I also note that you, Steve, recommends the stranded Neotech for making helix. I noted there were some brief comments regarding the solid core wire being too stiff making the cables more or less unsuitable for using between units. We made a trial on one meter of 12 GA solid core, where one was controlling the drill and the other was guiding the wire onto the rod. It was fairly easy to work with the 12 GA in that way, so if the solid core wire is better but impractical in use, then we are only left with stranded Neotech wire as an option for helixes. 

Any comments regarding solid core versus stranded for helixes will be highly appreciated.

- Steen

@provst - @aniwolfe 's suggestion could have some merit, as there may be some "screening benefits" from having a double PE, but I have never tried it and EMI and RFI is not an issue I have identified as being problematic in my home

Or - you can simply leave the ground wire as a single conductor.

I have tried using Mil-Spec for the PE, and it  does not appear to affect sound quality.

Regards

@jambaj0e Regarding...

@williewonka I have seen USB, but what about micro USB and type C? Also, what about coaxial Bnc cables?

A USB Micro cable would be very difficult to fabricate because of the thickness of the wires.

But you could build a standard USB cables and use an adapter

Attaching wires to BNC connectors would be difficult

However - the IC's also make an excellent SPDIF cable just as they are

Regards

@aniwolfe 
The design outline and construction of power cables we followed when purchasing parts, were those described in this thread:

Neotech in either Air-configuration or with PVC (as we are running 230 V) for Live conductor, double helixes using mil spec for Neutral and a single helix using mil spec for Protective Earth.

We prefer to make the all helixes in one go, ie. all three in this example, as that is far more easy than make one helix at a time and then join afterwards. Hence - the time is now, before we start making helixes, that a change in conductors must be made.

From Steve’s latest reply the recommendation is a single helix for Neutral made of Neotech and then still use the mil spec for PE. The choice for mil spec on PE is my assumption as Steve has not given any direction regarding changes to this conductor.

@provst 
@williewonka 

For Powercables that have two TFA Mil Spec Helix. Wouldn't you just use the two TFA 12g wire for the Ground and get a single 12g strand of Neotech for the Neutral?