Duelund conversion to DIY Helix Geometry Cabling

https://www.partsconnexion.com/TRADEIN-87550.html    parts connextion has a dual 16g  duelund  interconnect

@grannyring - congrats on the upgrade to VH Audio Solid silver. Sounds like it was worth the effort and expense.

I've used a single strand of the VH Audio 18 gauge for the live conductor in the Power Cables to the source components - today I heard their benefit when I upgraded my last power cable - what an improvement!

 @rx8man - glad to hear you too are having a very positive Helix experience.

The Helix excitement just keeps building - thanks to everyone for your efforts and courage for making the Leap to "The Helix"

And a special thanks to those members that are building the cables for other people - much appreciated.

Regards - Steve.

Power Cable Update.

So today I just completed the last Power Cable upgrade - to the Neotech OCC 12 gauge solid copper.

So basically from the outlet I have...
- 1 x 11ft extension cables with 12 gauge Neotech wire in cotton insulation, that has a dual outlet in a box on the end of it
- 1 x 12 gauge Neotech OCC 12 gauge with cotton insulation into my amp
- 1 x 12 gauge Neotech  OCC 12 gauge with PVC insulation into my Power Distribution box

From the distribution box I have
- 1 x 18 gauge solid silver VH Audio to my Phono stage
- 1 x 18 gauge solid silver VH Audio to my Bluesound Node 2i

The neutral and ground wires are all 12 gauge Silver plated Mil-soec

The change from the last report is - I now use bare Neotech wire with a PVC insulation...
- I purchased the Neotech with Teflon insulation and stripped the insulation
- The PVC insulation is simply clear plastic pipe from the hardware store - cost me $1.35 CDN for 5 ft - much cheeper than Teflon tube

The tube is about 5 mm thick with an internal diameter of 3mm

I did try setting it alight to ensure it was not a fire hazard - it resisted the test nicely.

Bottom line - the system again instantly responded with an even better and more spacious image - pretty much 3D, including the perception of height.

I would assume teflon would have the same effect - but at around 30 times the price - ouch!

I think the advantage here is the amount of Air around the bare wire.

The biggest advantage of using the PVC pipe - the live wire is now better  protected from accidental spills

I think I'll change the other PC's that have cotton insulation - just to be safe :-)

Regards - Steve

Grannyring built me an RCA Double Silver Helix Digital that makes my system so listenable and fatigue-free, I don’t want to leave the room.

I can attribute this by not only the nature of the Helix design, but the quality components used and build procedure described above.

It’s not "only" the usual descriptive of improvements wrought by it.

The entire soundscape from top to bottom is devoid of any digital artifact (jitter) which, in turn, allows music to emerge unscathed, in a quiet, smooth, natural, flowing form.

This, in turn, improves the frequency range from the lowest registers to the extreme highs and everything between.

I also had a very robust, Helix Power Cable made by member Aniwolfe, that I use for the main line coming into my Inakustik conditioner that works wonders eliminating AC noise issues, can’t speak highly enough about it.

I have been building ICs, USB and digital cables with the VH Audio 18 gauge solid core SILVER Airlock wire in place of copper and the difference is not small. In my system, and others of high quality, the sonic gains are substantial.

The realism and micro detail retrieval is substantially improved. My system is playing music with a new level of realism that I have never heard before. All of the full bodied bloom of copper is still there, but even more refined and resolving. I have not liked one single brand or type of silver conductor in my builds until I tried this VH Audio conductor. All the silver wire I had tried in the past just sounded too thin or lean. NOT the case with the 18 gauge VH Audio Silver solid core.

My system’s mids and highs are as smooth as butter. I cannot overstate how amazing the Double Helix builds are using VH Audio silver. Yes, I am talking about the double. I find this conductor better sonically
than the Mundorf silver/gold. The Mundorf lacks the bottom end heft and weight while sounding not as smooth and extended on top. The realism of the VH silver is also better.

Now, the cost of this silver conductor has almost doubled in price over the last month as silver is up. ($39 foot) So these are expensive builds, but the cables are outperforming $6000-$8000 branded cables in systems.

I have not heard any cable, at any price, sound this wonderful. I am sharing this for those looking for the best possible cabling for their high end system. I have only built ICs, digital cables and USB cables thus far. Speaker cables would be far too expensive for me with this wire. The silver wire was only used on the USB data wires and the positive runs in digital and IC cables. The 16 gauge, silver plated, stranded copper wire from Take Five Audio was used for the USB power ground and negative runs on the digital and IC cables.

Use WBT 4% silver solder and be sure to cover the twisted pair of 18 gauge VH silver used on the positive runs of the ICs and digital cables with two layers of unbleached pure cotton tubing to damp unwanted vibrations. I use 4-5mm cotton tubing and then a second 7mm covering. I also use KLE Absolute Harmony plugs for my RCA builds. On the double helix I use a 4 to 1 length ratio of TFA wire to VH Audio wire. For example, if building a 3 foot set of Double Helix ICs, then you would need two 12 foot lengths of the TFA wire in addition to the two 4 foot lengths of the VH Audio wire.

UPDATE- RE: the Classic RCA.

After about 100 hours there seemed to be no more improvements, but then the wires had been used for some weeks, so it was just the RCA’s and solder that needed burn-in

While this is a very capable RCA plug i.e. compared to the competition from other brands, it does not provide the same level of performance as the Pure harmony and Absolute harmony models.

Based on my previous auditions of the Silver harmony and Copper Harmony - I believe the performance to be between the Copper Harmony and the Silver harmony i.e. ON MY CABLES...
- bass was as deep, but a little less detailed & textured
- the top end was a little less crisp and lacked some fine details
- image was not quite as large and lost a little of the focus
- dynamics were a little slower - they lacked that crispness of the Absolute Harmony
- overall clarity was very good
- Venue acoustics, while present, lost a little of their sparkle
- there was no change in tonal quality - very neutral

I would definitely use the Classic RCA on my A/V system for either Analogue or Digital IC’s, or on a good second/office system.

If you have not tried the Harmony range, the Classic Harmony RCA will give you a very good indication of the sound you can achieve with the other RCA’s in the Harmony lineup

Hope you find this useful - Steve

.

@grannyring - I think Jeff has it right.

Initially, I was asked to review each of the plugs as they were released. But after testing each of the plugs I always thought the Copper Harmony and the Pure harmony were not really needed. Then they came out with the Classic and I was quite puzzled..

The Classic Harmony I have burning in at this moment played some unusual tricks in the first 30 hours (i.e. compared to the rest of the lineup).

Initially they sounded very nice. Then they became quite "in your face" and a bit heavy in the bottom end between 10-20 hours, but they are now settling down to that nice neutral performance that I had been expecting from a Harmony RCA

I’ll give them a week to burn in and report back. But right now, they seem to be a little less detailed and not as focused as the Absolute Harmony.

For other readers I would like to clarify that the differences between each of the harmony plug models is "marginal’ in the context of general listening. But in a controlled audition with select tracks, the improvements in "fine details" between each model are quite discernible.

But compared to the competition, they are an extremely good RCA plug.

Regards - Steve

Thank you for the explanation and alternatives Steve.

@maxima95 - until recently, I too was concerned about this aspect.

Here is my thought process
We hear a lot from cable manufacturers about the safety aspect of cables, but home audio cables are "normally" fairly stationary.

But if you are selling a cable you cannot be certain of the use it will be put too, so you design in LOTS of additional "protection"
e.g. Furutech cable is perhaps one of the safest cables around - it can withstand many harsh chemicals - just the thing you need for home audio :-)

DH Labs realized this when they designed a line of bulk cable for home audio use - it used great copper like Furutech, but it was not shielded and the outer sleeve was not chemical resistant

There are people out there that has a maze of cables around their system and are not too careful in how they handle them. The result is cable can get worn and break

WRT MY helix cables
- I only touch/remove any of my cables a few times a year
- they are not stepped on or abused
- I always hold the plug when removing them - not the cable
- they do not have liquids poured on them
- they are not subject to extreme temperatures

So I have become more comfortable with using Cotton, especially on the live wire, because it is inside a "cage".
- The wires around it are protected with Teflon.
- The live wire cannot be touched by people under "normal" operation.
- The only "threat" with cotton is if someone were to spill water on them and I am careful not to have water around my entire system.

Is there a possibility that the wire will heat up and set fire to the cotton insulation ?
- well that should not happen under normal operating conditions because the solid core wire I use is capable of handling up to 34 amps
- that’s 19 amps over the "standard" 15 amp breaker trip current.
- So the breaker should trip long before the wire gets hot enough to ignite the cotton.

So fast forward to my later post which mentions using Teflon tube - the main reason for this was to provide an alternative to cotton for people that might be concerned about using cotton.

WRT the difference between the Dielectric Constant values of the two sleeves
- I believe the difference in sound quality between the two would be distinguishable if you listened intently.
- So either is a good choice

I leave it up to the individual to use whichever insulation method suits their own needs in order to achieve the performance they feel is safe.

@wig has reported excellent results using the 12 gauge solid core without removing the Teflon insulation, so that is a third very safe option.

So to answer your question
- It is probably more prudent to adopt the insulation that you are comfortable with
- perhaps leave the Teflon Insulation in place
- it will not keep you awake at night
- the sound quality will still be excellent

The choice is yours...
- Cotton
- Teflon tube
- or - Leave the Teflon insulation in place

We all have limits to the things we are willing to try in this crazy hobby

BTW - I do understand you concerns - I check my cables frequently during the burn-in process for changes in temperature.. They have always remained at room temperature.

I hope that helps

Regards - Steve

" ... The DIYer also raised concerns about using cotton sleeve, since he is in Europe where the voltage is 230v. ,,,"

Steve - I lifted this from one of your previous posts.

I realize there is a sort of cage around it, but I was wondering about the safety of the cotton with 120V.  

Jeff at Sonic Craft told me this a year ago.  He only stocks the Classic and Absolute stating the others are a waste of time to carry. I trust his ears as he knows what he is talking about. 

Me again :-)

I’ve just tried a couple of things

1. a 14 gauge Silver Plated Mil-spec wire as the neutral on an interconnect and the results were very similar to the double 16 gauge. But I had to use a 1/8" rod, which provided only just enough space to get the 2 x 18 gauge VH audio wires to pass through the coil
2. I tried the Classic Harmony RCA on my best cable. While this is the entry level RCA plug from KLE Innovations, its performance was quite surprising, i.e. compared to the Absolute Harmony that it replaced.

Based on how the performance of the Classic Harmony compared to the Absolute harmony, I believe it is probably as good, if not slightly better than the Silver Harmony.

It left me very confused ..
- why would KLE Innovations introduce a product that performs this good, since it appears to compete with the Copper and Silver Harmony RCA’s

Compared to the Absolute Harmony it lacked just a little in the following areas...

1. Dynamics - not quite as crisp
2. Image size was a tad smaller and lacked a little precision i.e. not as focused
3. Clarity & details were a little less accurate

It might be a good, affordable solution for Digital SPDIF cables ? Unfortunately, all of my streaming is accomplished view Ethernet, so I cannot verify that

It is definitely targeted to a more budget conscious buyer - BUT, it definitely will not disappoint. It’s a very good RCA plug.

Regards - Steve

NEOTECH Wire Update

A fellow DIYer has just made me aware of this company
http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/

NOTE: the pricing on this site is Euro's - but I have convert to UK pounds below to keep comparisons simple

They have the 12 gauge Neotech Ultra Pure 7N Onho Continuous Cast (UP-OCC). wire - but with PVC insulation priced at  £17.34 / meter including VAT.
i.e. More affordable than the Teflon version.

However the dielectric constant of PVC is 4.0 (as opposed to Teflon's 2.1)

But If you are planning on using the cotton or silk sleeve in place of the the insulation it would be a significantly cheaper option.

The DIYer also raised concerns about using cotton sleeve, since he is in Europe where the voltage is 230v.

I recommended that he use this slightly larger Teflon tube.
https://www.takefiveaudio.com/products/473-ptfe-10-tubing/

 The tube would have air between a large portion of the surface of the wire wire and the side of the Teflon tube, unlike a molded insulation.

The combined Dielectric constant (i.e. air + teflon) would probably be in the range of 1.5-1.6, which is much better than a molded Teflon insulation and only marginally worse than cotton or silk.

Since I have not used this wire I cannot confirm that the PVC wire is (performance wise) identical to the Teflon version, but it is UP-OCC.

Regards - Steve
 
 

@mawe - the price you show is correct.

My sincere apologies to everyone

I clicked on the wrong link by mistake

Taking exchange rate into account the UK price translates to $28.28 / meter, which does in fact make Sonic Craft the cheaper of the two.

Thanks for picking that up

Regards - Steve

@ Steve (williewonka) : ?????

Your last post:
OK - Just did some math on the Neotech 12 gauge wire (Teflon)
- Sonic Craft - $7.66 US/foot
- Hifi Collective - £4.39+vat/Meter

where did you see these prices from Hi-Fi Collective???

when I look up their page I find the following:

SOCT-12: AWG 12, 1 strand of 2mm wire, diameters, inner: 2mm, outer: 3.4mm, 300V, 30A rated.
PRICE (1 metre): £21.76+vat+p&p
Steve, I will purchase from you, if you get these good rates 😉👍🏼

Why did you use Duelund 16 gauge in the power cord? Not sure that recipe delivers all that the Helix design offers sonically.  

I ordered a LessLoss c-Marc power cable and will compare it to my Helix cable (4 runs VH 18g a, neutral and ground with 3 and 2 runs Duelung 16 ga).
The LessLoss has implemented a helix geometry at multiple levels, so this will be interesting.

Wonder if this is the same exact wire? Jeff at Sonic Craft usually has very competitive pricing! I am now using his Neotech 16 gauge solid core copper in Teflon as my outer Helix conductor for my USB cable. Will try it for ICs soon. Always used this wire (14 gauge) for my power supply needs when building tube gear. Like it a lot.


USB cables made using Helix design principles are simply outstanding.

@wig  - your observations WRT any improvements observed when you replace the Teflon with Cotton sleeve will be most valuable.

Based on my own observations with similar power related approaches, I think you should experience a discernable improvement in clarity, image definition and artist separation/focus.

As always, your efforts and observations are most valuable and are very much appreciated.

Regards - Steve

@ williewonka

Yes, the teflon insulation was left intact and do plan on stripping the insulation and adding a cotton sleeve.

Wig

@wig re:...

The coating on my Neotech was left intact.

Are you referring to the Teflon insulation?

If the answer is Yes - are you planning on trying the Neotech wire, replacing the Teflon insulation with a Cotton sleeve?

FYI - all of my solid state components run between 5-7 degrees Celsius cooler with Helix Power cables

Thanks for the update - Steve

Quick Update on PC:

I converted my 4 runs of VH Audio 18 Ga Solid OCC to the Neotech 12 Ga Solid OCC 5 days ago and removed them from the cooker last night to discern any notable differences. Typically, I burn-in my PC on the cable cooker for 7 days and then run them another 4-5 days on a refrigerator to get them in their sweet-spot... The coating on my Neotech was left intact.

My early observations before complete burn-in is exactly what Steve has mentioned, better focus, improved dynamics/low level details, wider sound stage and just more composed in rendering shadings, depth and my system seems to flow easier...

I also noticed while cooking the Neotech 12ga Cabling that my cooker is significantly cooler than any cable I have ever cooked. My Neotech was purchased from Sonic Craft. Should have both conditioner and amp PC cabling integrated into my system by next weekend : )

Wig

Sonic Craft sell this Neotech wire here in the US. 

@sns and @rx8man - thanks very much for posting your helix experience - it’s great to hear what others are trying and to see that the helix design is getting some very positive feedback from even more Audiogon members.

But wait - there is another Power Cord Update !!!
- you just had to know this one was coming :-)

As per my posting above RE: my 11 ft extension cable
- I tried the same modification on the power cable from the 11 ft extension cable to my amp
- so now I have 12 gauge solid core Neotech OCC copper from the outlet to my amp

I took the same approach
- I replaced the 4 strands of 28 gauge Vh Audio solid copper with a single strand of the 12 gauge Neotech wire.
- I removed the teflon insulation and replaced it with Cotton sleeve (see previous post)

This really opened up the performance of my Bryston B135 integrated amp to new levels of detail
- larger image in all dimensions
- more focused image
- better low end control and details
- improved clarity
- better dynamics

The improvements were barely noticeable immediately, but really started to improve after about 2 days 24/7 playback (I don’t have a burner)

The PC seemed to have settled after about 5 days playing - I haven’t noticed any further improvement

However - i am not sure this level of improvement will be achieved using separates, since I believe most of these improvements are achieved within the pre-amp section of the B135 and not so much in the two power amps.

FYI...
- the B135 is in fact three separate amplifiers in a single case
- each has it’s own power supply (3 separate transformers, smoothing capacitors etc...)

I believe @wig is updating one of his power cables to this latest development - I look forward to reading his feedback

I am planning the same update to the power cable that attaches the extension cable to the power distribution box, which distributes power to my two source components.

Just waiting on the Neotech wire from the UK - I will post my findings in about 2-3 of weeks.

It will be very interesting :-)

Regards - Steve

Winter months ahead will provide that opportunity 🌡❄❄

@rx8man 

It will get much better after 200+ hours and you will begin to hear what they are capable of in the 72+ hour range. Run them 24/7 for a few weeks...

Wig : )

Received a Helix power cord today, constructed as follows:

6ft with 20amp Furutech CF IEC and a 15amp Male CF (Like Furutech)
5 Strands of Copper Solid Core VH Audio. Black Wire Coil with Single White Ground.

Plugs from a Maestro Duplex into an Inakustik AC-3500P, the main PC for my rig.

Sound from top to bottom is even quieter and more startlingly real.

These Helix cables are seriously off the hook.

Haven't visited this thread in a while so unaware of IC recipe. I will have to build some double barrel IC's with the vh audio airlock.
I built my first Helix pc perhaps a year ago, easily heard upgrade over Shunyata Python and Vh audio Airsines I was using. At this point I'm using Helix pc on every major component in system, everyone added only further upgrades sound quality. Originally, I was using Duelund AC rated on hot, started noticing a bit of darkening, rounded bass, highs rolled. Replaced Duelund with Vh audio airlock, lightened up on bass, opened up top end a bit, sound a bit more refined, greater resolution.

Whether built with Duelund or Airlock, the most noticeable improvement heard over many other pc's I've tried over the years is the amazing transparency, never heard pc's sound so open. A couple of differences in my recipe are cryo versions of Parts connexion connex ac plugs and bare wire attachment at ac plug. I use two runs of airlock in source components, four runs for tube amps.

Thanks to Steve for a really great diy recipe, easily best diy recipe for anything audio related I've experienced in many a year in audio. Having auditioned many high end pcs over the years, I can't really recall any I wanted to use on entire system. These are so natural in timbre, tonality, really very little coloration.

Steve - Thanks for posting. 

It is also good to know that there are numerous options available to make a good power cord. 

QUICK UPDATE: I’ve just replaced the live conductor in my 11 ft Helix Geometry extension cable, with a 12 gauge solid copper wire from Neotech
- the wire replaced was 12 gauge Duelund tinned copper with polycast insulation

I purchased the wire from HiFi collective...
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/soct-neotech-solid-core-copper-wire.html

"Neotech`s SOCT type wire is 99.999% high purity UP-OCC copper solid core wire, sheathed in red, heat resistant Teflon. Can be used for speaker wire, mains cable and general hook up wire"

I removed the Teflon insulation and inserted the bare wire into a cotton sleeve to reduce the Dielectric Constant to around 1.3 - down from 2.1 of teflon

The wire is quite stiff, i.e. compared to 4 strands of the 18 gauge Solid copper from VH Audio that I have used in other power cables, but since the description states it is suitable for power cables I assume it is pliable enough to take some reasonable amount of flexing without breaking

The immediate results were quite noticeable
- improved clarity and dynamics
- improved control and a little deeper bottom end.


Now I’m not about to replace the live conductors in my heavier duty cables, but if anyone is constructing new power cables, this wire works out to be a little more affordable and I believe it would perform a little better than the wire from VH Audio, due to it being a single conductor.

My reasoning:
- The wire from VH Audo is 18 gauge, so it requires 4 strands to make a 12 gauge live conductor.

From this link: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html
- 12 gauge single core current carrying capacity = 34 amps
- 12 gauge 4-6 core current carrying capacity = 16 amps

So there should be improvements in the handling of transient peaks.

Initially, I only used stranded wires, for improved flexibility, but it is quite evident that solid wire is superior, i.e. provided you take reasonable care when flexing (no tight 90 degree bends)

Regards - Steve.

@b_mueller  - Thanks for the feedback,   especially pertaining to the use ferrites - good to know.

I've seen other posts that promote them, but I have never used them on my audio system cables.

Cheers - Steve

Hi Steve
Thank you for posting European alternatives to the MilSpec wire, very much appreciated.
I believe you are not alone with your observation that short pieces of different metals inserted to a longer wire change the overall sound. For example, this is how Franck Tchang from ASI produces his interconnects and loudspeaker cables..
In the meantime, I have built and installed my first helix power cable according the posted recipe, from wall to the LessLoss firewall distributor. I have also experimented with ferrites (from 1 up to 14 pieces) that snugly fit around the live wires, and I could replicate what has been posted elsewhere: they suck out the life of the music. 

@mawe - thanks - I was NOT taking into consideration the implications associated with the number of strands and the width of each strand, together with the dielectric constant of the insulation - I was merely looking at the relative conductivity of the metal in each wire type in the electrical pathway.

@rego - thanks also - I forgot to take into consideration the impact of the connectors and the voltage drop across each "section" of the electrical pathway.

Thanks guys - much appreciated

Regards  - Steve
  

@williewonka, 'conundrum' the Extension Cord is obvious weak link in the chain because of Voltage Drop Concerns (contact points etc.).
A dynamic gain is a gain ... suggesting the use of 'Type D' Cable as a replacement for existing  One) Cable 'Type A' and Two) 'Type B' the lesser of the three cables.
Tinned Copper seems to me to be an Ideal choice though ... 

My experience in general with cables, but more on ICs than PCs is, that the lower the dielectric of the insulation, the more “open” and “dynamic” it sounds.
Could be the reason, why you “hear” more dynamic  after replacing the cable with cotton sleeves.
I think, the VH Audio silver cable in cotton sleeve is one of the most open and dynamic wire and
can only be “topped” with bare wire in an oversized cotton sleeve, where the contact area is even more reduced.However, on PCs I think the conductor material is not that important. Using solid core, ideally not bigger than 18AWG ( and than multiple of them to get total required size) twisted in low dielectric insulation with minimum contact area and a good connection is key.

@tomic601 - A friend of mine made a 24 ft long Helix cable

He actually used a 24ft long piece of COAX 
- stripped the outer sleeve and the shielding. 
- wound transformer wire around the outside of the insulation for the helix coil
- added RCA's - not sure if he used Harmony RCA's

He was very impressed with the resulting sound, but it took him and his wife to fabricate the cable.

Hope that helps

Can anyone throw some light on this conundrum  please
- it's bugging me :-)

I decided to replace the Live conductor inside my power distribution box.
- the neutral wires are the same 2 x 12 gauge Mil-Spec wire I use in the power cables
- the wire being replaced was 12 gauge Duelund Tinned Copper.with PolyCast insulation
- the wire replacing the Duelund is 4 x 18 gauge Mundorf Solid Silver/Gold with cotton sleeve insulation

The length of the wire is approximately 12"
- I was very surprised to hear any improvement at all
- but I observed an audible improvement in dynamic response. 

The method of connection of the wire inside the distribution box was the same - only the actual wire changed.

Here are the different wires I use in the cables connecting the electrical pathway...
- Duelund Tinned copper - let's call it wire type "A"
- Solid copper VH Audio - lets call it wire type "B"
- Solid Silver VH Audio - let's call it wire type "C"
- Solid Silver/;gold MUNDORF - let's call it wire type "D"
- And the neutral throughout the entire system is 2 x 12 gauge Silver plated Mil-Spec and all cables have the Helix Geometry

The change occurred only in the electrical pathway of the Source components, which consists of...
-  an extension cable - 11 ft of wire type "A"
- a power cable to the distribution box- 5 ft of wire type "B"
- Distribution box - 1 ft of wire type "D" - previously 1 ft of wire type "A"
- a power cable - 4 ft of wire type "C"

SO - originally I thought that Dynamic performance was related to the conductivity of of the various wires in the electrical pathway i.e. how fast the power propagates through the wire 

If that was the case, then the "limiting factor" should be the wire used in the extension cord - wire type "A" 
However, replacing just a small piece of wire type "A in the distribution box with wire type "D" , i.e. a wire that has better conductivity properties, resulted in improved dynamic response, even though the wire in the electrical pathway preceding it is slower.

So my question is - why does that small piece of wire make any difference at all?

Any thoughts would be appreciated

Cheers

I've just heard back from my European contact and he endorses a stranded Silver plated wire from Jantzen Audio and provided the following links

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/006-0051-jantzen-speaker-cable-13awg.html

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/hook-up-wires/jantzen-audio-hewptfe-fil-cablage-cuivreargent-25mm2noir-p-8071.html?search_query=jantz&fast_search=fs

https://www.blackdotaudio.eu/jantzen-silver-plated-copper-wire-speaker-cable-awg-13-black-1-metre-p-998.html

He has compared it to the Mil-Spec wire from eBay and he prefers the sound of the Jantzen wire. So much so, he is currently in the process of converting all of his Mil-spec helix to the Jantzen wire.

He believes the Chryo-treated mil-spec wire from Take Five Audio is of a higher quality than the non-Chryo'd Mil-spec available in Europe.

Regards - Steve

I’ll ask one of the European DIYer’s where he got his wire from

He may have a couple of options

Stay posted - Steve

I use a dissected eupen GNLM for neutral and earth. They both have emc/ferrit powder around their tinned strands that acts as a rfi filter for the live wire. It really works. No stray voltages, no rfi, low induction. Pitch black background and oomph in spades.

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/10m-Eupen-Kabel-Typ-LP-GNLM-3G2-5-Audio-Line-DIY-Netzkabel-Low-Pass-Netzfilt...

For live I use a (dissected) Ramm Amadeus 5 mk2 

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/cable-metre-cables-hautparleur/ramm-audio-amadeus-5-mk2-speaker-cable...

Sometimes I use for 2x16 awg, sometimes 4x16 awg (power amp), and 4x16awg in starquad for 2 prong equipment. 

Oyaide C-004 on IEC and Viborg 511R on Schuko. Some teflon tape, heatshrink and techflex.  

Very happy with the results. I am done with power cord tweaking. 

@mawe 
Thank you very much, that is excellent advice. I will get wire from that french site you indicated.
I just had an idea - how about using ferrites snugly fitting along the LIVE wires? They could serve dual purposes, removing RFI and keeping the distance to the neutral/ground helix wires.

@ Bruno,
an alternative to the Milspec wire would be the Jantzen Audio 2x2,5sqmm or 3x 1,3sqmm copper silverplated PTFE wire, which you can order from audiophonics.fr.
There you can order as well the Neotech solid core OCC 18AWG in PTFE. Much more cost effective than the VH Audio wire.
I am a Long Time User of VH Audio wires, mainly the solid silver in cotton for interconnects.
But shipping cost, Tax and VAT make them really expensive when landed at your place.
This is the reason, why I swopped to the french site. Their prices are the most attractive in Europe.
 For a power cord I think the Neotech is as good as the VH Audio wire, specially in PCs as the solid PTFE insulation is more robust.
I put the 3 runs 18AWG Neotech in a 6mmx0,6 Teflon tube (ordered from Conrad) and this into a 10mm PVC tube to keep a certain space to the outer neutral coil.
The coiling obviously keeps best with solid core wires. Therefore you can use for the neutral as well some solid core wires. For ground wire I used standard yellow/Green 1,0 or 1,5sqmm solid core wire from the Home Depot market. 

Great thread ! Amazing cross borders collaboration- fun

has anyone built a 4 m ( ish ) interconnect ? If so to Configuration and with what results ?

best to all

jim

Thank you very much for your answers, mawe and Steve.

@Steve, actually I got this idea of using opposite helix directions for neutral and ground from you website. 

http://www.image99.net/blog/files/b4d5249616a56bdabfd28b5580db6cec-79.html

However, after re-reading, I realize I may have misinterpreted. The mixture of two winding directions is not described actually. 

I was planning to use Chris Airlok wire for the LIVE conductor (three runs), and admittedly the Duelund wire for the neutral and ground. But I can see that this stranded wire may not be suited to maintain the helix winds. The thing is that shipping charges from Canada to Europe are prohibitive, especially compared to the cost of the Mil-Spec wire.

Now, I am not sure whether there is an European alternative to the Mil-Spec wire. 

Bruno - just re-reading your post and was wondering which of the wires you mentioned do you intend to intend to use for the LIVE conductor, and which wire you intend to use for the neutral and ground wires?

Either the VH Audio wire or Duelund will be a good choice for the LIVE conductor..

For a 230v cable - if you are using the VH Audio wire for the LIVE I would recommend using a cotton sleeve over the LIVE conductor for added safety

I would NOT recommend either of these two wires for the neutral or ground conductors because they are not robust enough to maintain the helix coil effectively and the VH Audio wire will not withstand any prolonged handling activity.

Mil-spec is still my wire of choice for Neutral.

I would even use Mil-Spec for the ground because of it's superior ability  to maintain the helix coil shape and it's tough Teflon insulation

Regards - Steve

Bruno - Winding the neutral and ground in opposite directions will complicate the build process and will make the cable much thicker.

But - Will it make an audible difference?

If you wound the ground around the Live wire and then would the Neutral wire(s) around the Ground/live wire assembly in opposite directions it would provide a greater gap between the Live wire and the Neutral wire. This should provide some benefit.

However, the power cables I have made are all 120v and not 230v, so the higher voltage may cause more interference., which means the additional space would be an advantage.

Could you please post a link to the site where you read this  - I would be very interested in seeing related information before providing a definitive YES or NO answer

Many Thanks. - Steve

@ Bruno 
I also live in EU and still think you should use min 2x 18awg for the hot/life and 2x 16awg for the neutral + ground. I use this even for my low power LPS Shanti for my AlloUSBridge Signature. If you’re using a high power amp it could be beneficial to use 3x 18awg. I have ordered the SonarQuest Plugs directly from the original China Website and it was flawless regarding delivery, less than 10 days, no Importtax nor addition VAT and shipping cost included. So for 38€ I got IEC and Schuko plug with silverplating in clear housing. I prefer the clear housing, as you can see the better how the cable is fitted into the IEC clamping.

Thank you so much for all your work in this matter - I got inspired and decided to join the bandwagon. I will build power chord with Viborg plugs, Chris VenHaus Airlok copper 18ga wire and Duelund 600VA wire.
Now, I live in Europe with 230V mains. So I conclude current is lower and I will be able to safe on diameter needed for the same power (half the Amps), right?
Also, I have read that running neutral and ground in opposite helix turn might be beneficial. However, does this not make the assembly more difficult and the final cable will be less stable?
I very much welcome your sensible comments.
Best, Bruno