Like @stringreen posted - It would be nice if Chris at VH Audio made his wire in 12 or 14 gage
Perhaps if we all ask for it?
Cheers - Steve
Duelund conversion to DIY Helix Geometry Cabling
I have been an avid user of the Duelund cabling for over two years now and have used them exclusively in my system with great results. I have built many for friends and have used a full loom of interconnects, speaker cables, power cords and an extensive wiring modification for a previously owned balanced power conditioner utilizing Duelund 600V PolyCast wiring which was transformative. My cabling desires can be a little addictive as I have owned and evaluated 40+ brands of cabling costing more than an entire stereo system!
Over the past six months I stumbled upon a thread here on Audiogon in regards to a Helix designed cabling and as you probably already know, I just had to look a little deeper into this cable design…After a month of studying and sourcing parts, I decided to reach out to the designer/architect, Williewonka who gave more insights and philosophy on how the cable came into existence.
That conversation got the ball rolling in converting one of my KLE Duelund interconnects to Steve’s Helix designed which only entailed replacing the neutral with a Mil-Spec 16 AWG silver-plated copper wire with the neural wire being 3 times longer than the signal wire and of course the “Coiling” of the neutral wire : )
After the modification was complete, I was not sure what to expect from the Helix cabling but I was quite shocked with the results with “ZERO” burn-in time…The sound stage became much wider/deeper with a much tighter/focused image and clarity/transparency is like nothing I have ever heard in any cabling regardless of cost. In fact, I just sold a full loom of a commercially designed Helix Cable that’s renowned around the world and has more direct sale than any cable manufacturer; these $200 DIY Helix Cables walked all over them…
I believe you will hear the same results as I have and have heard back from friends who have already modified their Duelunds with the same results; WOW! Remember the cables will need 200+ hours to burn-in and settle into your system. My system is now 90% DIY Helix to include IC, SC, PC and Coax with each cabling adding its beauty of an organic and natural presentation that draws you into the fabric of the music.
You can tailor the sound of your cables using Duelund, Mundorf silver/1% gold, the outstanding Vh Audio OCC Solid Copper or Silver with Airlok Insulation or your favorite wiring and you can change it at any time…
http://www.image99.net/blog/files/category-diy-cables.html
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/difference-in-sound-between-copper-and-silver-digital-cables
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/adding-shielding-to-existing-cables
Enjoy,
Wig
@rx8man - thanks for the post - the enamel "insulation" has Dielectric Constant of around 3.2, which is higher than Teflon. But now I am left wondering if the thickness of the insulation plays a significant role. Like @stringreen posted - It would be nice if Chris at VH Audio made his wire in 12 or 14 gage Perhaps if we all ask for it? Cheers - Steve |
Anticables Web: "How durable is the red coating? The red coating will not wear off under normal conditions. The red coating can be scraped off with a sharp knife edge, yet a sharp knife would also cut any typical cable as well. The great thing about the red coating is it also keeps oxygen off the copper through the life of the cables, preventing oxidation and sonic degradation. This is something no typical speaker cable can do. Cut open a 5 year old set of typical cables, and don’t be surprised if the copper looks discolored like an old penny." And here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/anticables-speaker-wire-have-no-plastic-jacket-insulation |
WRT bare wire - the one advantage of the PVC tube is it is perfectly clear, so I can see any oxidation. The wire is very bright right now and easily seen. I'm wondering if coating the wire with a very thin coat varnish or urethane would work? Anyone know what the coating is on transformer wire? - That is very thin and probably lowers the impact of insulation Cheers - Steve. |
Great stuff! My guess is the 12 gauge with molded Teflon jacket in place would sound even better on your speaker cables. I use 2-10 gauge conductors per leg in my speakers cables as an FYI. Sounded better than a single 10 gauge per leg. These are not Helix cables however. I use Helix jumpers up to my mids and highs. |
Speaker Cable Update. Bare 14 gauge Neotech Solid wire inside PVC tube... First - I would NOT recommend the PVC tube for any cable over 6-7ft long, simply because the PVC is quite supple and "grippy", which makes inserting the bare wire quite troublesome. I believe the Teflon tube would not suffer the same issue and would probably be just as effective..My cables are around 9ft long and it took some effort to get the wire in the tube. So, right from the get-go the 14 gauge Neotech (bare wire) in the PVC tube sounded better than the 2 x 18 gauge Vh Audio wire... - Bigger image - improved Artist separation and focus - more space around artists - slightly faster dynamics - improved clarity - improved details That lasted for about 12 hours and then things started to get a little weird... The image started going a little crazy, with some instruments darting around the image. Also, standing 4ft to the right of center, the central voice appeared to come from the side wall but not from reflections off the wall. But in the listening position it was perfect. With the VH Audio wire, standing in the same position the artist was always in the center. So today was day4 (approaching 100 hours) of the burn-in process and I am glad to report the rather flakey image issues have been "cured" and I think things will improve further. With this wire I now have a full appreciation of what @grannyring refers to as :the "wall of sound". - the image extends in every dimension and very "3D like" - improved Artist separation and focus - really is like "being there" - dynamics are the most realistic yet experienced - improved clarity - again, like being there - improved details - you’ll definitely hear new things on pretty much every track. - speakers? - what speakers? - totally invisible! The only concern I have with going the bare wire route is whether the bare copper will tarnish/corrode inside the PVC (or even Teflon) tubing over time and impact sound quality. I did "seal" each end with a 1" piece of heat shrink (with adhesive on the inside) in an attempt to at least slow down the oxidizing process. Perhaps leaving the Teflon insulation in place might prove to be the best route? - the question is how much does the Teflon (molded onto the wire) impact sound quality? I’ll let you know if I ever have to replace the bare wire :-) BTW - finally fully experiencing that "wall of sound", makes this upgrade well worth the cost and effort. It is immense, enveloping and very compelling. Until the next upgrade :-) Regards - Steve. |
Power Cable UPDATE: So today’s venture replaced the Cotton Sleeve on the power cable to my amp with the PVC tube mentioned above. The cable had been completely burned in - I removed one of the Spade connectors - inserted the wire into the tube - placed heat shrink with adhesive at both ends to "seal" the tube - reattached spade connector and the mains connectors The improvements, although quite small, were immediately discernible. - more detailed venue acoustics - improved clarity, textures and harmonics - more precise image focus and artist placement Orchestral tracks sound more spacious and focused and Pipe Organ music (in a church venue) exhibited an improved "perception of height". I believe there is a downside to being able to reproduce music to this level of detail... - The "engineered" venue acoustics on (some) tracks that were recorded in the studio have a tendency to now sound a bit "fake" - there is just too much echo/reverberations to be believable However, the tracks recorded at the venue sound amazingly lifelike. e.g. there is more separation between the the various sections of the Orchestra in width and depth. Considering the price of this upgrade - About $1.30 - I would say it was worth it. :-) It would seem the key is to reduce the amount of surface area of the wire that touches the insulation. The Dielectric Constant (Dk) of cotton is around 1.3 and Air is around 1.1 I think the PVC tube is now my insulation of choice when using bare wire for the conductor. Teflon would probably have the same effect, but is considerably more expensive in comparison I think I have probably squeezed the last ounce of performance out of my copper power cables - I have no plans to try the same thing with the Neutral wire, it would be far to complicated a venture. Speaker cables are up next for the exact same treatment.. - I’ve decided to try a single 14 gauge bare Neotech UP-OCC wire - inside the same PVC tube Will keep you all posted in a couple of weeks Regards Steve |
@grannyring - thanks for the thoughts - as always very useful. Initially my thought was to try 2 x 18 gauge because it would be a direct comparison of the two brands of wires BUT - After giving this more thought, I think I am going to try a 2 x 16 gauge Neotech AND, as a separate test - a single strand of 14 Gauge Neotech - both bare wire inside the PVC tube that I used in the power cable. I’m thinking both these approaches will probably perform better than 2 x 18 gauge Vh Audio wires Will get back to you once I get the wire(s) Cheers @rx8man - thanks for the update on your power cables So I was wondering if you had tried replacing the Helic PC with one of the Mad Scientist cables to connect the power conditioner to the wall outlet and use the Helix PC for either a source or your amp. If you have tried this what were your observations -preferences? I ask because based on the various things I have tried, having the Helix Power cables connected to a component (vs. the power conditioner) has generally provided better sound. But there are many things at play in a system, so this may not be the case in your system Regards - Steve |
Steve I am thinking your Neotech power cord experience has much more to do with gauge and voltage carried than the sonic qualities of the two brands of wire. I think if the VH Audio wire was offered in 12 gauge would likely sound even better than Neotech. I just don’t think combining 18 gauge conductors for a power cord is ideal. Your results point to that in my opinion. Now I happen to think 14 and 12 gauge conductors would be better for speaker cables than 18 gauge. Even if you combine two 18 gauge conductors I feel the single 12 gauge conductor would be better....within the same brand. This is based on my listening tests with several well touted brands of conductors. No matter the outer insulation the heavier gauge within each brand always sounded better with speaker cables. Improved fullness, bass drive, dynamics and midrange bloom. I would go with the 12 gauge 🤓 for moderate to high power amps with less efficient or moderately efficient speakers. Highly efficient speakers coupled with a low watt tube amp work fine with 16 or 14 gauge provided the length is under say 10 feet. Will the 12 or 14 gauge Neotech wire sound better than two 18 gauge VH Audio conductors in your speaker cables? Really don’t know until you try. While the Neotech gauge is more to my liking will that positive outweigh the positive sonic qualities of the VH wire? Don’t know as I have not compared. I would not use less than two VH Audio 18 gauge conductors in your speaker cables however. Question for you. Neotech sells the solid core copper wire in PVC for $2 per foot less than Teflon. Since it is the same internal wire and you are stripping off the insulation, it would seem smart to buy the PVC version of the Neotech wire. Perhaps you shared this, but I may have missed this. Thank you so much for this power cord discovery! |
@grannyring - re:... Speaker cables would be far too expensive for me with this wire.Since my experience replacing the VH Audio with the Neotech copper in my power cables has been so positive, I’m wondering if the same improvements could be achieved with the speaker cables. i.e. the latest power able upgrade replaced 4 x 18 gauge VH Audio with Air Lok insulation with 1 x 12 gauge Neotech OCC Copper bare inside a PVC tube - the results are stunning Would you have any thoughts as to which of the following options might be the most beneficial? #1 - Two strands of 18 gauge Neotech £6.92+vat+p&p per meter - basically replacing the same gauge Vh Audio wire #2 - One strand of 14 gauge Neotech £13.86+vat+p&p per meter - basically increasing the gauge in a single wire to double that of the 2 x 18 gauge. #3 - One strand of 12 gauge Neotech £21.76+vat+p&p - I think this is overkill for speaker cables, but the improved performance of my power cable was quite compelling Note: - I included prices prices just as a comparison @rx8man - re:... Helix Power Cable made by member Aniwolfe, that I use for the main line coming into my Inakustik conditioner that works wonders eliminating AC noise issues, What power cables do you currently have from the power conditioner to source components? Have you tried the switching them with the Helix cable? Just curious ? UPDATE FOR OTHER READERS... Here is a link to the PVC tube I used to insulate the Live wire on the latest power cable upgrade... https://www.homedepot.com/p/UDP-1-8-in-I-D-x-3-16-in-O-D-x-100-ft-Clear-Vinyl-Tubing-with-Dispenser-... Whilst the temperature range (i.e. up to 160 vs. 200 Celsius) may not be up to Teflon standards, at those temperatures the tube just becomes very pliable and unsuitable for use as a pressure/water hose. As a test - I applied considerably more heat using one of those hand gas lighters that have the "blue flame" - the tube did ignite briefly after quite a long period of time withstanding the intense heat and then went out as soon as I took the flame away. So for me, this pipe makes a very good insulator for Power and speaker cables i.e. if you want to use bare wire for the signal/live wires. At least it WILL NOT present any issues if someone spills coffee on the cable as it would if cotton sleeve is the insulator :-) Also - here's the link for the Neotech PVC insulated wire that is cheaper than the Teflon http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/neotech/neotech-up-occ-hook-up-chassis-wire-page.htm Regards - Steve |
https://www.partsconnexion.com/TRADEIN-87550.html parts connextion has a dual 16g duelund interconnect |
@grannyring - congrats on the upgrade to VH Audio Solid silver. Sounds like it was worth the effort and expense. I've used a single strand of the VH Audio 18 gauge for the live conductor in the Power Cables to the source components - today I heard their benefit when I upgraded my last power cable - what an improvement! @rx8man - glad to hear you too are having a very positive Helix experience. The Helix excitement just keeps building - thanks to everyone for your efforts and courage for making the Leap to "The Helix" And a special thanks to those members that are building the cables for other people - much appreciated. Regards - Steve. |
Power Cable Update. So today I just completed the last Power Cable upgrade - to the Neotech OCC 12 gauge solid copper. So basically from the outlet I have... - 1 x 11ft extension cables with 12 gauge Neotech wire in cotton insulation, that has a dual outlet in a box on the end of it - 1 x 12 gauge Neotech OCC 12 gauge with cotton insulation into my amp - 1 x 12 gauge Neotech OCC 12 gauge with PVC insulation into my Power Distribution box From the distribution box I have - 1 x 18 gauge solid silver VH Audio to my Phono stage - 1 x 18 gauge solid silver VH Audio to my Bluesound Node 2i The neutral and ground wires are all 12 gauge Silver plated Mil-soec The change from the last report is - I now use bare Neotech wire with a PVC insulation... - I purchased the Neotech with Teflon insulation and stripped the insulation - The PVC insulation is simply clear plastic pipe from the hardware store - cost me $1.35 CDN for 5 ft - much cheeper than Teflon tube The tube is about 5 mm thick with an internal diameter of 3mm I did try setting it alight to ensure it was not a fire hazard - it resisted the test nicely. Bottom line - the system again instantly responded with an even better and more spacious image - pretty much 3D, including the perception of height. I would assume teflon would have the same effect - but at around 30 times the price - ouch! I think the advantage here is the amount of Air around the bare wire. The biggest advantage of using the PVC pipe - the live wire is now better protected from accidental spills I think I'll change the other PC's that have cotton insulation - just to be safe :-) Regards - Steve |
Grannyring built me an RCA Double Silver Helix Digital that makes my system so listenable and fatigue-free, I don’t want to leave the room. I can attribute this by not only the nature of the Helix design, but the quality components used and build procedure described above. It’s not "only" the usual descriptive of improvements wrought by it. The entire soundscape from top to bottom is devoid of any digital artifact (jitter) which, in turn, allows music to emerge unscathed, in a quiet, smooth, natural, flowing form. This, in turn, improves the frequency range from the lowest registers to the extreme highs and everything between. I also had a very robust, Helix Power Cable made by member Aniwolfe, that I use for the main line coming into my Inakustik conditioner that works wonders eliminating AC noise issues, can’t speak highly enough about it. |
I have been building ICs, USB and digital cables with the VH Audio 18 gauge solid core SILVER Airlock wire in place of copper and the difference is not small. In my system, and others of high quality, the sonic gains are substantial. The realism and micro detail retrieval is substantially improved. My system is playing music with a new level of realism that I have never heard before. All of the full bodied bloom of copper is still there, but even more refined and resolving. I have not liked one single brand or type of silver conductor in my builds until I tried this VH Audio conductor. All the silver wire I had tried in the past just sounded too thin or lean. NOT the case with the 18 gauge VH Audio Silver solid core. My system’s mids and highs are as smooth as butter. I cannot overstate how amazing the Double Helix builds are using VH Audio silver. Yes, I am talking about the double. I find this conductor better sonically than the Mundorf silver/gold. The Mundorf lacks the bottom end heft and weight while sounding not as smooth and extended on top. The realism of the VH silver is also better. Now, the cost of this silver conductor has almost doubled in price over the last month as silver is up. ($39 foot) So these are expensive builds, but the cables are outperforming $6000-$8000 branded cables in systems. I have not heard any cable, at any price, sound this wonderful. I am sharing this for those looking for the best possible cabling for their high end system. I have only built ICs, digital cables and USB cables thus far. Speaker cables would be far too expensive for me with this wire. The silver wire was only used on the USB data wires and the positive runs in digital and IC cables. The 16 gauge, silver plated, stranded copper wire from Take Five Audio was used for the USB power ground and negative runs on the digital and IC cables. Use WBT 4% silver solder and be sure to cover the twisted pair of 18 gauge VH silver used on the positive runs of the ICs and digital cables with two layers of unbleached pure cotton tubing to damp unwanted vibrations. I use 4-5mm cotton tubing and then a second 7mm covering. I also use KLE Absolute Harmony plugs for my RCA builds. On the double helix I use a 4 to 1 length ratio of TFA wire to VH Audio wire. For example, if building a 3 foot set of Double Helix ICs, then you would need two 12 foot lengths of the TFA wire in addition to the two 4 foot lengths of the VH Audio wire. |
UPDATE- RE: the Classic RCA. After about 100 hours there seemed to be no more improvements, but then the wires had been used for some weeks, so it was just the RCA’s and solder that needed burn-in While this is a very capable RCA plug i.e. compared to the competition from other brands, it does not provide the same level of performance as the Pure harmony and Absolute harmony models. Based on my previous auditions of the Silver harmony and Copper Harmony - I believe the performance to be between the Copper Harmony and the Silver harmony i.e. ON MY CABLES... - bass was as deep, but a little less detailed & textured - the top end was a little less crisp and lacked some fine details - image was not quite as large and lost a little of the focus - dynamics were a little slower - they lacked that crispness of the Absolute Harmony - overall clarity was very good - Venue acoustics, while present, lost a little of their sparkle - there was no change in tonal quality - very neutral I would definitely use the Classic RCA on my A/V system for either Analogue or Digital IC’s, or on a good second/office system. If you have not tried the Harmony range, the Classic Harmony RCA will give you a very good indication of the sound you can achieve with the other RCA’s in the Harmony lineup Hope you find this useful - Steve . |
@grannyring - I think Jeff has it right. Initially, I was asked to review each of the plugs as they were released. But after testing each of the plugs I always thought the Copper Harmony and the Pure harmony were not really needed. Then they came out with the Classic and I was quite puzzled.. The Classic Harmony I have burning in at this moment played some unusual tricks in the first 30 hours (i.e. compared to the rest of the lineup). Initially they sounded very nice. Then they became quite "in your face" and a bit heavy in the bottom end between 10-20 hours, but they are now settling down to that nice neutral performance that I had been expecting from a Harmony RCA I’ll give them a week to burn in and report back. But right now, they seem to be a little less detailed and not as focused as the Absolute Harmony. For other readers I would like to clarify that the differences between each of the harmony plug models is "marginal’ in the context of general listening. But in a controlled audition with select tracks, the improvements in "fine details" between each model are quite discernible. But compared to the competition, they are an extremely good RCA plug. Regards - Steve |
@maxima95 - until recently, I too was concerned about this aspect. Here is my thought process We hear a lot from cable manufacturers about the safety aspect of cables, but home audio cables are "normally" fairly stationary. But if you are selling a cable you cannot be certain of the use it will be put too, so you design in LOTS of additional "protection" e.g. Furutech cable is perhaps one of the safest cables around - it can withstand many harsh chemicals - just the thing you need for home audio :-) DH Labs realized this when they designed a line of bulk cable for home audio use - it used great copper like Furutech, but it was not shielded and the outer sleeve was not chemical resistant There are people out there that has a maze of cables around their system and are not too careful in how they handle them. The result is cable can get worn and break WRT MY helix cables - I only touch/remove any of my cables a few times a year - they are not stepped on or abused - I always hold the plug when removing them - not the cable - they do not have liquids poured on them - they are not subject to extreme temperatures So I have become more comfortable with using Cotton, especially on the live wire, because it is inside a "cage". - The wires around it are protected with Teflon. - The live wire cannot be touched by people under "normal" operation. - The only "threat" with cotton is if someone were to spill water on them and I am careful not to have water around my entire system. Is there a possibility that the wire will heat up and set fire to the cotton insulation ? - well that should not happen under normal operating conditions because the solid core wire I use is capable of handling up to 34 amps - that’s 19 amps over the "standard" 15 amp breaker trip current. - So the breaker should trip long before the wire gets hot enough to ignite the cotton. So fast forward to my later post which mentions using Teflon tube - the main reason for this was to provide an alternative to cotton for people that might be concerned about using cotton. WRT the difference between the Dielectric Constant values of the two sleeves - I believe the difference in sound quality between the two would be distinguishable if you listened intently. - So either is a good choice I leave it up to the individual to use whichever insulation method suits their own needs in order to achieve the performance they feel is safe. @wig has reported excellent results using the 12 gauge solid core without removing the Teflon insulation, so that is a third very safe option. So to answer your question - It is probably more prudent to adopt the insulation that you are comfortable with - perhaps leave the Teflon Insulation in place - it will not keep you awake at night - the sound quality will still be excellent The choice is yours... - Cotton - Teflon tube - or - Leave the Teflon insulation in place We all have limits to the things we are willing to try in this crazy hobby BTW - I do understand you concerns - I check my cables frequently during the burn-in process for changes in temperature.. They have always remained at room temperature. I hope that helps Regards - Steve |
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Me again :-) I’ve just tried a couple of things
It left me very confused .. - why would KLE Innovations introduce a product that performs this good, since it appears to compete with the Copper and Silver Harmony RCA’s Compared to the Absolute Harmony it lacked just a little in the following areas...
It might be a good, affordable solution for Digital SPDIF cables ? Unfortunately, all of my streaming is accomplished view Ethernet, so I cannot verify that It is definitely targeted to a more budget conscious buyer - BUT, it definitely will not disappoint. It’s a very good RCA plug. Regards - Steve |
NEOTECH Wire Update A fellow DIYer has just made me aware of this company http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/ NOTE: the pricing on this site is Euro's - but I have convert to UK pounds below to keep comparisons simple They have the 12 gauge Neotech Ultra Pure 7N Onho Continuous Cast (UP-OCC). wire - but with PVC insulation priced at £17.34 / meter including VAT. i.e. More affordable than the Teflon version. However the dielectric constant of PVC is 4.0 (as opposed to Teflon's 2.1) But If you are planning on using the cotton or silk sleeve in place of the the insulation it would be a significantly cheaper option. The DIYer also raised concerns about using cotton sleeve, since he is in Europe where the voltage is 230v. I recommended that he use this slightly larger Teflon tube. https://www.takefiveaudio.com/products/473-ptfe-10-tubing/ The tube would have air between a large portion of the surface of the wire wire and the side of the Teflon tube, unlike a molded insulation. The combined Dielectric constant (i.e. air + teflon) would probably be in the range of 1.5-1.6, which is much better than a molded Teflon insulation and only marginally worse than cotton or silk. Since I have not used this wire I cannot confirm that the PVC wire is (performance wise) identical to the Teflon version, but it is UP-OCC. Regards - Steve |
@ Steve (williewonka) : ????? Your last post: OK - Just did some math on the Neotech 12 gauge wire (Teflon) - Sonic Craft - $7.66 US/foot - Hifi Collective - £4.39+vat/Meter where did you see these prices from Hi-Fi Collective??? when I look up their page I find the following: SOCT-12: AWG 12, 1 strand of 2mm wire, diameters, inner: 2mm, outer: 3.4mm, 300V, 30A rated. PRICE (1 metre): £21.76+vat+p&p Steve, I will purchase from you, if you get these good rates 😉👍🏼 |
Wonder if this is the same exact wire? Jeff at Sonic Craft usually has very competitive pricing! I am now using his Neotech 16 gauge solid core copper in Teflon as my outer Helix conductor for my USB cable. Will try it for ICs soon. Always used this wire (14 gauge) for my power supply needs when building tube gear. Like it a lot. USB cables made using Helix design principles are simply outstanding. |
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@wig - your observations WRT any improvements observed when you replace the Teflon with Cotton sleeve will be most valuable. Based on my own observations with similar power related approaches, I think you should experience a discernable improvement in clarity, image definition and artist separation/focus. As always, your efforts and observations are most valuable and are very much appreciated. Regards - Steve |
@wig re:... The coating on my Neotech was left intact.Are you referring to the Teflon insulation? If the answer is Yes - are you planning on trying the Neotech wire, replacing the Teflon insulation with a Cotton sleeve? FYI - all of my solid state components run between 5-7 degrees Celsius cooler with Helix Power cables Thanks for the update - Steve |
Quick Update on PC: I converted my 4 runs of VH Audio 18 Ga Solid OCC to the Neotech 12 Ga Solid OCC 5 days ago and removed them from the cooker last night to discern any notable differences. Typically, I burn-in my PC on the cable cooker for 7 days and then run them another 4-5 days on a refrigerator to get them in their sweet-spot... The coating on my Neotech was left intact. My early observations before complete burn-in is exactly what Steve has mentioned, better focus, improved dynamics/low level details, wider sound stage and just more composed in rendering shadings, depth and my system seems to flow easier... I also noticed while cooking the Neotech 12ga Cabling that my cooker is significantly cooler than any cable I have ever cooked. My Neotech was purchased from Sonic Craft. Should have both conditioner and amp PC cabling integrated into my system by next weekend : ) Wig |
@sns and @rx8man - thanks very much for posting your helix experience - it’s great to hear what others are trying and to see that the helix design is getting some very positive feedback from even more Audiogon members. But wait - there is another Power Cord Update !!! - you just had to know this one was coming :-) As per my posting above RE: my 11 ft extension cable - I tried the same modification on the power cable from the 11 ft extension cable to my amp - so now I have 12 gauge solid core Neotech OCC copper from the outlet to my amp I took the same approach - I replaced the 4 strands of 28 gauge Vh Audio solid copper with a single strand of the 12 gauge Neotech wire. - I removed the teflon insulation and replaced it with Cotton sleeve (see previous post) This really opened up the performance of my Bryston B135 integrated amp to new levels of detail - larger image in all dimensions - more focused image - better low end control and details - improved clarity - better dynamics The improvements were barely noticeable immediately, but really started to improve after about 2 days 24/7 playback (I don’t have a burner) The PC seemed to have settled after about 5 days playing - I haven’t noticed any further improvement However - i am not sure this level of improvement will be achieved using separates, since I believe most of these improvements are achieved within the pre-amp section of the B135 and not so much in the two power amps. FYI... - the B135 is in fact three separate amplifiers in a single case - each has it’s own power supply (3 separate transformers, smoothing capacitors etc...) I believe @wig is updating one of his power cables to this latest development - I look forward to reading his feedback I am planning the same update to the power cable that attaches the extension cable to the power distribution box, which distributes power to my two source components. Just waiting on the Neotech wire from the UK - I will post my findings in about 2-3 of weeks. It will be very interesting :-) Regards - Steve |
Received a Helix power cord today, constructed as follows: 6ft with 20amp Furutech CF IEC and a 15amp Male CF (Like Furutech) 5 Strands of Copper Solid Core VH Audio. Black Wire Coil with Single White Ground. Plugs from a Maestro Duplex into an Inakustik AC-3500P, the main PC for my rig. Sound from top to bottom is even quieter and more startlingly real. These Helix cables are seriously off the hook. |
Haven't visited this thread in a while so unaware of IC recipe. I will have to build some double barrel IC's with the vh audio airlock. I built my first Helix pc perhaps a year ago, easily heard upgrade over Shunyata Python and Vh audio Airsines I was using. At this point I'm using Helix pc on every major component in system, everyone added only further upgrades sound quality. Originally, I was using Duelund AC rated on hot, started noticing a bit of darkening, rounded bass, highs rolled. Replaced Duelund with Vh audio airlock, lightened up on bass, opened up top end a bit, sound a bit more refined, greater resolution. Whether built with Duelund or Airlock, the most noticeable improvement heard over many other pc's I've tried over the years is the amazing transparency, never heard pc's sound so open. A couple of differences in my recipe are cryo versions of Parts connexion connex ac plugs and bare wire attachment at ac plug. I use two runs of airlock in source components, four runs for tube amps. Thanks to Steve for a really great diy recipe, easily best diy recipe for anything audio related I've experienced in many a year in audio. Having auditioned many high end pcs over the years, I can't really recall any I wanted to use on entire system. These are so natural in timbre, tonality, really very little coloration. |
QUICK UPDATE: I’ve just replaced the live conductor in my 11 ft Helix Geometry extension cable, with a 12 gauge solid copper wire from Neotech - the wire replaced was 12 gauge Duelund tinned copper with polycast insulation I purchased the wire from HiFi collective... https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/soct-neotech-solid-core-copper-wire.html "Neotech`s SOCT type wire is 99.999% high purity UP-OCC copper solid core wire, sheathed in red, heat resistant Teflon. Can be used for speaker wire, mains cable and general hook up wire" I removed the Teflon insulation and inserted the bare wire into a cotton sleeve to reduce the Dielectric Constant to around 1.3 - down from 2.1 of teflon The wire is quite stiff, i.e. compared to 4 strands of the 18 gauge Solid copper from VH Audio that I have used in other power cables, but since the description states it is suitable for power cables I assume it is pliable enough to take some reasonable amount of flexing without breaking The immediate results were quite noticeable - improved clarity and dynamics - improved control and a little deeper bottom end. Now I’m not about to replace the live conductors in my heavier duty cables, but if anyone is constructing new power cables, this wire works out to be a little more affordable and I believe it would perform a little better than the wire from VH Audio, due to it being a single conductor. My reasoning: - The wire from VH Audo is 18 gauge, so it requires 4 strands to make a 12 gauge live conductor. From this link: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wire-gauges-d_419.html - 12 gauge single core current carrying capacity = 34 amps - 12 gauge 4-6 core current carrying capacity = 16 amps So there should be improvements in the handling of transient peaks. Initially, I only used stranded wires, for improved flexibility, but it is quite evident that solid wire is superior, i.e. provided you take reasonable care when flexing (no tight 90 degree bends) Regards - Steve. |
Hi Steve Thank you for posting European alternatives to the MilSpec wire, very much appreciated. I believe you are not alone with your observation that short pieces of different metals inserted to a longer wire change the overall sound. For example, this is how Franck Tchang from ASI produces his interconnects and loudspeaker cables.. In the meantime, I have built and installed my first helix power cable according the posted recipe, from wall to the LessLoss firewall distributor. I have also experimented with ferrites (from 1 up to 14 pieces) that snugly fit around the live wires, and I could replicate what has been posted elsewhere: they suck out the life of the music. |
@mawe - thanks - I was NOT taking into consideration the implications associated with the number of strands and the width of each strand, together with the dielectric constant of the insulation - I was merely looking at the relative conductivity of the metal in each wire type in the electrical pathway. @rego - thanks also - I forgot to take into consideration the impact of the connectors and the voltage drop across each "section" of the electrical pathway. Thanks guys - much appreciated Regards - Steve |
@williewonka, 'conundrum' the Extension Cord is obvious weak link in the chain because of Voltage Drop Concerns (contact points etc.). A dynamic gain is a gain ... suggesting the use of 'Type D' Cable as a replacement for existing One) Cable 'Type A' and Two) 'Type B' the lesser of the three cables. Tinned Copper seems to me to be an Ideal choice though ... |