Duelund conversion to DIY Helix Geometry Cabling

Thanks mbolek,Yes the message was for you.

@mbolek Hope the Holiday Period has been enjoyed by yourself.

As an inquiry, has the Holiday Period allowed for any additional periods of creating a assessment of the PC Triple C Wire in use.

On another forum that I not a member, but where I have been a influence of the use of this wire, I have seen a reference to SAEC XR 3000 Cables as being potentially the best VFM Cables.

As this individual making this claim has been demonstrated the SL 5000, with SAEC Supplied RCA's and Low Mass / Low Eddy RCA Connectors, they are used to the better end of SAEC PC Triple C Wire Cables.

The statement did not claim to be using SAEC Supplied XLR Connectors or an Exchange XLR Connector.  

@pindac reposting here..

I like the Triple C XLRs very much.   I believe they out perform my previous OCC builds.  Just sensing more clarity, better voicing, overall info that I haven't heard previously with my go to music.

This is a 30" cable with AECO copper/silver XLRs.   (2) 19awg bare Triple C conductors (+, -) inside teflon tubing.  Neotech 16awg for ground (Helix wrap).

May look at replacing some internal hookup wire with the Triple C.   Good stuff...

@mbolek I have read the posts in both threads.

This report is with a content about the impression of the PC Triple C Wire that is quite familiar to me.

There are more than one way to describe the presentation from the wire, but when compared to a OCC Wire, the comments all are off the view there is a change and one for the better.

I stated in the past a further veil has been removed and this veil has allowed for a lucidity that is difficult to imagine can be bettered. There has been new micro details find a way to be audible from the recording. The one that really captured myself in my system was the Vocals of a Female Singer, the control used for the breathing had become tangible, it was a quite unfamiliar encounter when first discovered. All most like Q Sound had been used to produce the effect.

On a friends system who I have encouraged to use the Wire, there commitment to using it has been similar to how yours is looking to develop.

Wand Wire, Hook Up Wire, RCA Phono's, Speaker and Power are now all PC Triple C.

The experience I had of it with a Low Mass / Low Eddy RCA on Chassis and Cable was the best to date for me, the 'Envelope' of the note, was visual, the shaping of the Vocal and Instrument manifested in a manner not experienced before.

This is the most impressive and wanted to be reproduced trait from the Signal I can suggest to be is a worthwhile endeavour to discover how to be achieved.

If the intention is to continue the Signal Path as a PC Triple C Hook Up Wire, have a good think about the Chassis XLR, one temporary trial could be to direct couple the Cable to the Circuitry to see how the Chassis XLR might impact on the SQ.      

Happy new year everyone!

I'll finally try to make some cables.

I found two websites for Sonar Quest, sonarquest.net and sonarquestshop.com.

Do you know if they are legit?

I think the Aesthetix Atlas might be with differential output.

Would someone be able to confirm?

Thanks a lot!

@williewonka, Hi Steve,  After having just read the entire long thread with interest and mounting anticipation I have chosen to build some interconnects using your updated 'Ultimate' recipe. 

Are these intended for analogue or digital duties?

I come from a boat building and sailing background and as a professional delivery skipper (now retired or maybe not 😉) have first hand experience with copper wire under harsh conditions. With regards your mild concern over the deterioration or 'weathering' of the bare wire in a tube, may I offer a suggestion closely aligned with the system you used to exclude the unprotected wire from oxidation.

When I rewired my boat over 30 years ago I went to great lengths to prevent/slow the wiring from electrolysis and salt laden air. A product that I find essential is Silicone Grease, please note this is not to be confused with silicone adhesive. When making a wire-joint or terminating to a connector I slide an appropriately sized piece of heat-shrink onto the wire, allowing for good overlap either side of the join or termination. The join is soldered or when not able to solder it is connected by 'marrying' the wires. A married joint is the least bulky and is made by splaying the strands of both wires then alternating the strands as they are introduced and then twisting the strands on each side in opposite directions.  Once joined I liberally cover the joint with the silicone GREASE, slide the heat-shrink into position and then carefully without heating the central part of the joint heat the ends, effectively creating a pocket of grease that completely excludes any air or moisture. Some grease will be squeezed out as it shrinks which can be cleaned away.

I have used this method to connect bilge pumps where the connection is permanently submerged in filthy bilge water. I have replaced burned out pumps on boats I worked on and found the copper as bright as the day I installed them.  When I sold my boat the new owner asked me to install some gear. To do this I had to cut into joins over 30 years old and found them to be as clean as the day they were made!  This grease is also great for lubricating and being a silicone compound actually nourishes plastics and rubber. It's ability to waterproof will be evident when trying to was your hands after using.  

Not audio related but a light smear of this stuff on windscreen wiper blades will stop shudder, quieten the movement and lengthen their life.

Something else that may prove to be useful is the technique I use for getting cables into tight spaces. The average length of a sailboat mast on the deliveries I did is about 14 to 20 meters and getting wires stuffed into the conduit running inside the mast is a challenge. Here dental floss and a fishing weight/sinker helps. When you described some difficulties getting the wires through the teflon tubing I immediately thought of this:

If the T-tube is suspended in a vertical position it should be little problem getting a weighted length of floss to gravitate through the tube. Floss being surprisingly strong can then be rolling-hitched to the wires and simply pulled through. Fly-fishing tackle shops can supply tiny lead split balls that are crimped to the fishing line. If things are a bit tight simply lubricate using your awesome grease 😎

@lemonhaze

. . . and sailing background and as a professional delivery skipper (now retired or maybe not 😉)

Not! LOL.

Nice to read about tips from a fellow sailor on this forum. Did you see ‘Race of the Century’ on Netflix?

My experience is primarily working the foredeck on ocean-racers. I’ve had the good fortune to see countless sunrises/sunsets during my watches over the years – as well as to hear the gun at the finish line. Also, the misfortune of being pummeled by horizontal rain – with raindrops the size of bullets, pounding into square waves for days at a time, losing steerage by reefs, visiting the masthead while under weigh - and heaving-to during a Force 9. What’s not to love! 😎

Re: audio. IMHO, there’s a commonality with the physics of electricity and the physics of fluid dynamics – hydro & aero. When encountering resistance, the flow of electricity has a similar behavior to micro-climates. The result of ‘friction’ caused by obstacles, colliding vectors, eddying, etc. Occurring at connections/junctions – interaction with insulation – purity of wire – et al. It’s all fascinating!

Please continue to share your knowledge and observations.

_ _ _ _ _

Re: Silicon grease & heat-shrink.   Sounds similar to what Purist Audio Design does with their mixtures to counter EMI.

@lemonhaze - WRT

Are these intended for analogue or digital duties?

The really nice thing about the Helix design with the Harmony RCA plugs, is that they can be used for either duty, without reservation.

You also do not need to worry about the length of the interconnects when used for digital purposes

• I have used lengths from 18 inches to 6 ft and not noticed any degredation of sound from either analogue or digital interconnects
• others report the same for Balanced cables also.

WRT the my comments regarding possible corrosion - turns out my "fears", or perhaps a better word would be suspicions, regarding the possible corrosion of bare wires inside teflon tubes were without merit.

In the 18 months since I implemented the first Helix Image Air adaption, I can report that while the initial brightness of the copper has become a little more subdued after the first couple of months, it now appears that any further dulling has not taken place.

Whereas the piece of "sacrificial" bare wire wire that I placed on top of my audio stand for comparison purposes has now become very dull.

So I believe that the glue in the heat shrink I use has been very effective in sealing the teflon tubes.

Others have used hot glue to seal the tubes, which is also very effective

But it is always very educational to hear of other creative solutions to any problem, so thank you very much for your most informative post.

I’m sure other members will also find it very useful

Regards - Steve

@williewonka, Congratulations on a long thread without the usual cable deniers disrupting flow. Good that you find the interconnects work for both analogue and digital. I need to make up a cable with RCA on one end and BNC on the other end to connect to an old Wadia 15 DAC   I don't remember seeing BNC mentioned, can you recommend a good BNC  connector please.

@steakster, a pleasant surprise to read your post and last night thoroughly enjoyed  ‘Race of the Century’  I have missed a few deliveries from USA because of crew shortage. Would you be interested? Nothing at the minute but who knows?

I have watched clips of the final race before but not with all the build up and background. I had the good fortune once on a stop-over in Bermuda to watch match racing in Hamilton harbour. 17 of the world's top 25 skippers competed. I took the boat owner out to the start line in the rubber duck with food and beer and we closely observed them jockeying for the favoured end of start line which shifted often in gusts. Great fun.

I lived on my boat in Durban harbour east coast of South Africa for 32 years and finally sold it to marry a girl I met at my 21st birthday party. I have been asked why it took me over 40 years to marry her and my answer is much like my audio hobby, I don't like rushing things 😬  We now live in rural Ireland and very little audio interest here.

So my deliveries were local to start which meant most were Durban to Cape Town. The sailor's bible 'Ocean Sailing Passages of the World' warns of waves up to 20 meters in height on this stretch of Indian Ocean seaboard caused by one of the strongest currents on the planet rushing into an opposing SW regularly gusting at over 60 knots equal to Beaufort force 11  This builds character!

On a 35' catamaran delivery from Cape Town to Annapolis for their annual boat show we made it to Barbados 14 hours before hurricane Ivan came through which was full category 5 and at the time claimed strongest ever. Waited for the sea to settle some then set course for US east coast where we encountered hurricane Jeane which had hit Florida then curved North and chased us up the coast with winds steadily increasing. The anemometer broke on the masthead, stuck at 82 knots. I was preparing to head for shelter, nearest being Charleston but radio reported some easterly component in hurricane's heading so I held course. The hurricane became easterly then did a loop de loop and curved back and hit Florida a second time! This is what caused terrible damage as lots of the storm shutters and other precautions had been taken down. With 21 Atlantic crossings I have many stories but not to be told here. Some guns, some drugs, some vanilla and sea rescue and scuppering.

Hope nobody gets seasick'

Charles

@lemonhaze - I'm yet to hear of anyone using the Helx geometry with BNC connectors, so I am unable to recommend that type of connector.

Here's a few from Parts Connexion...

Search Results for: bnc (partsconnexion.com)

Hope that helps

@lemonhaze

Glad to hear that it only took 40 years to make the right decision. Better late, than never. LOL!

It would be fun to swap stories over a few Dark & Stormy’s. Many laughs to share. No doubt, you’ve accumulated a boatload more tales. I’d love to hear the one about scuppering. It sounds like it has mystery and intrigue. As does the rescue. Hearing a Mayday over the radio is always unsettling.

Heavy weather. Heavy seas. Not for the feint of heart. Your loop de loop with Hurricane Jeane must have been a crazy long thrill ride. Anemoneter busted @82 knots – yikes! Finally making port - and celebrating – while fatigued to the bone. Then come the repairs! Been there.

I’d definitely be interested in crewing on a delivery. Though, I’m no longer the spry deck monkey of years ago. But, always up for another adventure.

_ _ _ _

Have you heard this one? Centuries ago, the British Navy used to ‘recruit’ seamen in pubs by offering them pieces of eight – that usually found their way into the bottom of a beer mug. The new recruit would swig down his beer –display the coins - and then be hauled off to a ship. The reason that glass was installed on the bottom of beer mugs is so that pub patrons could look underneath to make sure that they weren’t being surreptitiously recruited.  Myth?

@steakster,  

🙂

@grannyring,  I have found 2 Van den Hul BNC connectors in my stash box which are probably gold plated brass and though not ideal will try them and then compare with another made up helix interconnect using KLE RCAs with cheap BNC-RCA adapters. I think that the cheap adapter might do more harm than good and negate the excellent KLEs.  It's not easy to find a good low mass unit with almost all being brass and then gold plated. The link you provided took me to AECO which is Tellurium Cu. and what appears to be the best of my recent search. Quite pricey!

I am about to order some Teflon tubing and have the choice of 0.5mm or 1.0 mm wall thickness. Is one better for the purpose than the other?

Thanks, Charles

@grannyring,  I apologise for addressing the above post to you by mistake, I intended to send it to:  @williewonka 

Monosaudio are producing Copper BNC Connectors.

I would suggest from experiences introduced to, it would be best to have the same quality connector on the Chassis as well.

@lemonhaze - RE:

I am about to order some Teflon tubing and have the choice of 0.5mm or 1.0 mm wall thickness. Is one better for the purpose than the other?

I’m pretty confident that there would be little to no difference between the tubes, because there is minimal contact area between the wire and the teflon tube

Would it be a different case if the teflon were molded on the wire?

• I think if you had two identical wires, but one had thicker layer of the same Teflon insulation, then it would not perform as well as well as the wire with a thinner layer of insulation

Hope that makes sense

Regards - Steve

@pindac, thanks for the Monosaudio suggestion but unfortunately their BNC connectors are multi-plated which I am trying to avoid. They claim:

4 Layer Plated Process :

1. Oxygen Free Copper Plated

2. Silver Plated

3. Palladium Plated

4. Rhodium Plated

I found these 2 which are more expensive but considering the Oyaide because it will be silver conductor to silver connector. I have not been able to find quality BNC sockets and also don't think I want to try and change out the socket on my Wadia DAC.  It appears to be impenetrable!

The Link is the only other ones discovered with Pure Copper in the description.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33001068191.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.13.406375a1yo5Pfd&algo_pvid=312535a6-b12a-437c-9d12-cede6ba8cd7d&algo_exp_id=312535a6-b12a-437c-9d12-cede6ba8cd7d-6&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2267063768905%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21GBP%2111.05%2111.05%21%21%21%21%21%40211bf31716748435394754958d0715%2167063768905%21sea&curPageLogUid=VbsbwA9KXj7X

Steve,

have you tried 1 x solid core Neoteck Up OCC 12 AWG with original teflon or Cardas Chassis hook up 11.5 AWG wire Instead of 2 x 14 AWG bare OCC for signal In speaker cable

New guy here. Wow, what an amazing thread. I interested in going down the rabbit hole, but I have a few really basic questions that I couldn't find an answer to.

#1  When assembling the dual signal wire interconnects,  what is the reason for shielding the two wires? Why couldn't the wires be touching each other when incorporating the light twist?

#2   Is there a reccomended inner diameter when determining the use? Interconnects or speaker.

#3  After you have made the coil, what is the maximum amount the coil could be stretched  and still function correctly? (Unfortunately,  I have a speaker cable that would need to be 17 feet, so finding a rod long enough could be a problem)

My apologies if I missed where this was covered. Thanks in advance for your help.

Cheers -- JB

@escapevelocity - welcome !

#1 - I assume you mean insulating the two wires ?

• well I first tried two wires in one tube - then someone tried each wire in it’s own tube, so I tried it and it sounded better - improved clarity

#2 - I have tried several diameter helix coils and I have obsereved no difference

• but makeing the interconenct coil as small as possible allows for the RCA casing to move freely.
• for the speaker wire, you have to allow sufficient space for inserting the signal wires down the longer length of cable - it can bind on a tighter coil

#3 I have 9 ft cables and the spacing is about 1 cm

• stretching the coil to almost twice that for a 17 ft cable might not be wise
• i would aim for about 1.5 cm coil spacing at most
• the trick is to provide sufficient coverage to the signal wire and disrupt any external noise interference e.g. like a Faraday cage would

Hope that helps

If you have any more questions just ask - we’re here to help

Regards - Steve

Exactly what I was looking for. 

Thanks

@sasho - apologies for not answering sooner

WRT

have you tried 1 x solid core Neoteck Up OCC 12 AWG with original teflon or Cardas Chassis hook up 11.5 AWG wire Instead of 2 x 14 AWG bare OCC for signal In speaker cable

Unfortunately I have not compared these Gauge/wires in speaker cables

• I did try 1 x 12 gauge vs. 2 x 14 gauge Neotech wires in power cables and the 2 x 14 gauge perfromed better
• I did try 1 x 14 gauge Notech with teflon insulation and 1 x 14 gauge bare Neotech in Teflon tube and the bare wire in teflon tube performed better

From what I have read, the Cardas wire is stranded

• I have tried stranded Neotech wire and compared it to solid Neotech wire, both with Teflon insulation
• The bare wire provided the better performance

From what I have been able to discover...

• electrons generally like to stay within a strand of wire, but will "jump" between strands under certain conditions
• jumping strands takes more energy which results in micro distortions
• these distortions manifest as noise in the signal which impacts sound quality

For those reasons I use only bare wires,

I have also tried 3 and 4 wires in Teflon tubes and found no advantage over 2 wires, which is why I use 2 wires for all signal and live conductors

Seems that using two wires with each wire is inside a teflon tube is the optimum soluton, but I have not been able to ascertain why 3 or 4 wires do not sound better

Hope that helps - Steve

Has anyone made an ethernet cable with this design? How would one go about doing so? 

@donnylovely - not to my knowledge.

Not sure there would be any advantage because...

• each twisted pair is a "ballanced architecture" i.e. 
  • one wire carries D+ve signal and one carries the  D-ve signal
  • there is no neutral wire to connect to the Helix coil
    •  CAT 7 does have a shield, but again, I do not think there is a drain pin on the plug for the shield to connect too,
    • so it is only a floating shield (i.e. not grounded)
    • whereas a USB cable does have a neutral pin on the plug, so the helix coil attaches to that

The wire quality in a good ethernet cable and the Ethernet architecture is capable of carrying todays fastest LAN traffic without losses, so I'm ont sure there is a need for a Helix version

Hoper that helps - Steve

@williewonka, Hi Steve,

I have some parts ordered and about to order the bare solid silver which is fairly pricey. Have you any experience using the next size thinner? I am considering using 22AWG instead of the 20AWG for signal that you recommend and also going to 18 AWG for the neutral rather than the 16AWG in your recipe.

You report on Toddverrone using 24AWG for signal. This gauge would represent a significant saving but as my system is borderline entering into over analytical I would not want to push it any further in that direction.

Thanks.

@lemonhaze - I think you will be OK with the thinner wire

• assuming you are building the signal conductor using 2 x 22 gauge with each wire inside it’s own Teflon tube ?
• The 18 gauge neutral should also be OK with the 2 x 22 gauge signal conductor

RE: analytical sound

• If this is your first Helix Interconnect it will prpobably sound quite different from anything else you have tried and it will require about 200-300 hours break in before sounding it’s best
• you will hear more details, dynamics and clarity with the silver wire, but I’m not sure if I would consider this "analytical"
• small sounds like the reverberations of the venue stand out more
• details are "crisper"
• tsome people prefer the more mellow sound of duelund wire
• I’ve found that using UP-OCC copper for the neutral conductor of the speaker wire proved to be more analitical, so I went back to silver plated milspec for the neutral.
• Perhaps using milspec on the neutral of the interconnect might curb this problem ?
• I found using the silver wire with copper neutral resulted in what I thought was a more complete representation of the music across the audio spectrum.
• I think it’s one of those things you have to try in your system first

Hope that helps - Steve

@williewonka,   Thanks for the prompt reply. Yes this will be the start of my Helix journey.

Giving more thought to this I will now build 3 interconnects. One for digital as per your 'Ultimate' recipe and two for analogue, both using solid silver, one with 20AWG and the other using 22AWG.

It's the only way to truly know which is better for my system.

Regarding power cables, I will be able to experiment a bit more here due to cost. I have some Furutech cable which uses their Alfa 14AWG conductors which I will strip and use for light duty power-cables' neutral. These conductors are silver plated and are similar to the Mil-spec but I will also use the Neotech 14AWG OCC in PTFE for comparison.

@lemonhaze - The Furutech Alpha wire was one of the first wires I used as a Helix PC, because I had used the Furutech bulk cable for some earlier PC’s.

Having said that it was tragic to butcher such a great bulk cable, just for the conductors 😐

Whilst it is a pretty good wire to start with it’s main drawerbacks are

1. it is stranded, which is far less capable than solid wired, but more flexible
2. it is plated, which I have found to be less capable than unplated wires
3. the alpha copper is not as fast (i.e. dynamic) as UP-OCC copper

But it is a very good wire, compared to OFC copper used in many cables, and a great wire to start with

Good luck with your builds

@williewonka, I have abandoned the idea of using the Furutech cable for neutral. After stripping back enough of the two sheaths to expose the 3 inner wires I found that they would definitely not hold their shape 🙄

I am shopping for price which is taking time, especially when some emails go unanswered. There are many Neotech dealers in Europe but most carry limited stock and favour carrying the fast sellers only so I am forced to shop around. I am in Ireland and thought buying from some of the UK outlets would be sensible but for most components they are more expensive!

Previous purchases show that I pay UK tax and then I get taxed again when it reaches Ireland and sometimes, depending on the weather, I get charged import duties too.

I ordered a few meters of this for an IC to compare to Parts Connexion's bare solid AG :

@lemonhaze - CCC copper is  preferred by some to OCC copper - I believe there is very little between them, so this wire should work well.

The dielectric constant of the Polyethylene insulation is comparable to Teflon

Keep us posted as to how they work out

Regards - Steve

@williwonka. Yesterday I made  a one meter power cable for my music server using 2x 14g solid core occ copper with each run in a Teflon tube slightly twisted. 1 x for each neutral and ground. Both 4 meter lengths of ground and neutral wrapped counter clockwise  together, pure copper plated gold spades were crimped and soldered. I used a well broken pair of furutech ncf plugs

With a little over 14 hrs on the cable I’m pleasantly surprised at the SQ. This was my first PC and it took a 3 hrs to complete. 
 

This cable replaced furutech sp 55 n cable and already shows better imaging and inner detail.

I have previously made a couple dc cables with your helix formula with good results.

Regards 

Steve

@tecknik (Steve) - glad to hear the Helix Power cable is proving to be beneficial.

You may hear some degraded quality around the 20 hour mark, but then it gets much better by around 50-60 hours

For my source components (a Bluesound Node 2i and a Simmaudio Moon LP5.3 RS phono stage) I now use a 1 meter PC with 2 x 18 gauge bare UP-OCC solid silver in Teflon tubes for the Live and 1 x 14 gauge solid neotech UP-OCC with Teflon insulation for the neutral.

It proved to be most beneficial and within my budget, but I use 2 x 14 gauge OCC copper (Live conductors) for the PC's on the amp, the Power distribution box and the 11 ft Extension cable to the distribution box.

Thanks for the update on the DC cables as well...

• I no longer have any components that use DC power, so I am unable to try the Helix for that specific application

Please post again if the cables shows any further improvement

Cheers - Steve

@williewonka, in your experience with crimping and soldering how much time does the soldering require to sound its best. I believe I read in one of the topics here someone mentioned 350 hr. In my experience it’s not quite that long but a couple hundred hr.
 

Regards

Steve

I agree with Steve, there’s some noticeable degradation happening in SQ around the 25h mark that is slowly improving from H=45 to 100. From my experience on resoldering banana plugs on broken speaker cables, H=48 is usually how much time it takes to significantly break-in the solder and connector. I use Cardas gold/silver solder and rolled berylium/copper banana connectors.

I found out the Helix cables (interconnect and speakers) sound best after hundreds hours of playing and that would equal to a few months of music listening in my case. I read somewhere that it takes around 700h to break-in cryo parts which could also be an explanation about the long break-in time of these cable.

I have built most versions of these cables (Duelund Poly, Duelund Cotton, UPOCC Teflon and UPOCC Air/Teflon). One thing for sure, all of these cables sound extremely good.

One must remember that all of this is subjective and unless you have only changed one cable in your system, it would be hard to assess and measure the improvment over time. YMMV.

@lemonhaze I have been an advocate of PC Triple C for quite some time now, along with another Wire D.U.C.C.

The amount of individuals now turning to Triple C in my locality as a result of my loaning the Wire for demonstration has increased to quite a few converts.

It is even now in use as a Tonearm Wand Wire by a few of the converted.

@mbolek has now used PC Tripe C to produce Helix Cable and his comments are found in this thread.

The usage period is now quite extended, he might be able to update on his thoughts on the Wire in use.

@ williewonka, 

Im now thinking of making a pair of speaker cables and have a few questions.

For the live wire you’re stating live wire 2 x 14 solid and neutral wire 1 x 12 stranded. Why not 2 x 14 solid and 4 x the length rather then 2.5 don’t you want more coverage of the live wire. Shouldn’t live and neutral wires be the same size 2 x 14 yields a 11 g. Vs 1 x 12 g. 

Have you tried low mass spades ? 

Can I cover the speaker cables in a designer sheath to look more professional or does this affect the sound quality.

You guys are right the cables take a dive around 20 hrs before opening up nicely around 50 hrs I was about to yank them out but something kept catching my attention in the presentation, a naturalness I guess you could say.

regards

steve

@tecknik - see below

For the live wire you’re stating live wire 2 x 14 solid and neutral wire 1 x 12 stranded. Why not 2 x 14 solid and 4 x the length rather then 2.5 don’t you want more coverage of the live wire. Shouldn’t live and neutral wires be the same size 2 x 14 yields a 11 g. Vs 1 x 12 g. 

There are many "permutations" that you can use

• my preferred wires are
  • 2 x 14 gauge for the live and
  • 1 x 10 gauge stranded silver plated mil-spec for the neutral
• I did try 2 x 14 gauge OCC solid wires for the neutral but it sounded way too analytical and harsh - they lost their musicality
• Live and neutral wires do not have to be the same size, but the neutral does have to be larger than the signal wires
  • so 2 x 16 gauge for the live and 1 x 12 gauge for the neutral - or
  • 2 x 14 guage live and 2 x 12 gauge for the neutral

As for coverage - these are NOT screened cables

• the Helix acts like a faraday cage, It disrupts the impact of airborn noise
• the amplitude of airborn noise is very small,
  • i.e. in comparison to the signal in the speaker wires,
  • so their impact is negligeable
  • But in a phono cable, any noise will be amplified over 100 times - a much greater impact to overall sound

I have not tried low mass spades

• with the KLE Innovations spades you get almost 1 sq cm of contact area 
• the contact area of spades tend to be a lot less

Can I cover the speaker cables in a designer sheath to look more professional or does this affect the sound quality.

Yes you can cover them - it will NOT impact sound quality

Regards - Steve

Williewonka got it, thank you.

I just made the helix image air speaker cables with 2 14ga in Teflon tube and 12 gauge in Teflon tube. I just hooked them up and Holy sound stage! Instruments are more separated and everything got bigger. I think I need to move my speakers to get the bass back in the new sound stage. Thanks Steve. Going to make a coax next with silver and then power cables. 

@donnylovely - Glad you are enjoying the Helix Speaker Cables

RE:...

I think I need to move my speakers to get the bass back in the new sound stage.

I know what you mean - I had a similar experience.

HOWEVER - before you go around moving your speakers too much, I would recommend playing a wide variety of music to see if the bass has infact diminihsed

• we get conditioned to certain levels of different frequencies, bass being the most noticeable
• when we change cables and components we attribute the new sound to that change - but could it be the new sound is just how the track was recorded?
• I have a few audition tracks, many of which which I first thought sounded a little too different, so I listened to several other tracks and found that the bass was not lacking, it was just never too prominent on those audition tracks - it was my old configuration that was in fact enhancing(colouring) the level of the bass

Also, give the cables about 200 hours break in before making any other changes.

Nice to hear you plan on making the other Helix Cables - I posted very early on in this thread, the more helix cables you introduce into your system the better it sounds 😀

You might just find that the bass returns when you install the "Coax’ cable 😎

Once you have the cables sorted, then try moving the speakers

Regards - Steve

The bass came back after I ran the cables in overnight. Can't wait to upgrade the rest. Thanks again. 

Oooops - in my post above I wrote

with the KLE Innovations spades you get almost 1 sq cm of contact area

That should have been...

with the KLE Innovations BANANAS you get almost 1 sq cm of contact area

Apologies - Steve 😏

Whilst reading another Threads Post on this forum, I discovered the following that has a range of Connectors.

I have carried out many searches for Copper RCA and XLR Connectors and this site is a new discovery.

I hope it helps with a plan another may be putting in place.

 bocchino audio retail products access index

Williewonka@ what’s the influence of sound by the twisted neutral and ground”does a tighter twist over the live wires increase focus, air or timber of the ac cable.

Regards

Steve

When the System is reassembled, the intension is to be using this design of  Cable.

In the interim, I am having a few changes put in place.

The Power Amp's are to being returned to the Designer/Builder to be converted to work as Balanced and Single End.

Another EE Friend is now commenced with building a Balanced/Single End design of Pass Korg Nutube B1 Design Pre-Amp is being produced.  

The Power Amp' EE has asked for all devices to be in use, to be made available for the final testing to take place, as well as be supplied XLR Cables that can have a Earth Shield detached at One Connector.

The query is, does the Helix Design lend itself to this request from the EE.

I was not quite onboard with the EE's inquiry, when questioning me about the Cables to be built, I am interested in meeting the request from the EE, and to have a Cable available with this as a option, which will be able to have a shield detached.     

@williewonka, many obstacles and delay when ordering from UK or Europe. Strikes and protests severely disrupting my cable building exercise. A word of caution against using dienadel.de for components. Fighting to get a refund after returning some connectors. Also www.acoustic-dimension.com totally useless. They lure you onto their site with cheapest prices but do not keep any Neotech in stock. Basically drop-shipping. Waiting time - several weeks

While waiting for kit to arrive I made up a pair of interconnects using the CCC, the first wire I received. I debated using as is or stripping the insulation for the bare Cu. With no PTFE tubing yet delivered I went with the cable as supplied. The solid Cu. twin wire is 19AWG and measures 5.9mm in width which I tried to fit into a coil of Neotech 16AWG wound on a 5mm fibreglass rod. I had to separate the conductors to get them to lie a little closer together.  I shrunk some heat-shrink tubing over the rod to increase its diameter should I make another.

I inserted these between my Oppo and amp because Spotify runs all day so quickest run-in time. Initial listening was using redbook files from an external HD

I can state that I do not like what I heard, my wife and I simply love them! Whatever we played we heard details that we had not heard before or had not noticed because they were buried or obscured, but detail is only part of it. It was a more immersive experience with the leading edges of notes easily noticed, making percussive sounds exciting and more real. Darbuka, djembe, tablas and congos sounded excellent, better than I've heard before. Piano sounds wonderful with the player's left hand more obvious. There was a fullness in the portrayal now and that was first listen.

Jacob Gurevitsch's guitar sounds gorgeous. Knopfler's guitar on 'you and your friend' pops out. Listening to very well produced Christina Pluhar's -- Los Impossibles recorded in Chapelle de l'Hopital Notre Dame du Bon Secours, the sense of space in the large hall could be heard even before the music started, not ever noticed that before. My system is border-line on the bright side of neutral and was apprehensive about excessive detail but need not have been concerned, the IC provided a fuller sound and with more detail that was welcome.

Steve, perhaps consider changing your handle to willieWOWwonka  😁

I now have about 40hrs play time and yesterday I found a little of the magic missing. More stuff should arrive in a week and I intend to build another IC with twin bare 20AWG AG to compare directly with the Cu CCC.

Let me finish by stating that anyone sitting on the fence should jump straight in.

@pindac, thanks for bringing the CCC cable to our attention. It's the best IC in my collection by far.  Will be able to compare it to the proven IC recipe in about 10 days or so.

@lemonhaze - glad you finally had a positive experience with the Helix 🖕

WRT:

I now have about 40hrs play time and yesterday I found a little of the magic missing.

That will correct itself at about the 60 hour mark.

But... they keep getting better until around 200-300 hour mark, where they finally settle down.

If you have to remove them for any reason you may notice it takes 10-20 hours for the cables to reseat, before they sound their best again.

Keep the thread posted with the results of your upcoming solid silver IC’s

• Is it OCC or CCC silver?
  • if YES - you should notice better dynamics, details and an even more spacious image.
  • if NO - you might find it a little less exciting

Welcome to the Helix!

Regards - Steve