Doug Schroeder Method, Double ic

Doug my double starquad came, out of the box , it sounds amazing, yup it works,I connected it from my Teac dac with vol control , directly to my Norh mono amps...CELANDDER thank you, this cable is very very good...

Doug the starquad or double ic canare without adapters, is very fast and with explosiveness quality, at times in my systems the adapters affects the speed of my system a bit, but without adapters my system speed is really fast...The sound it resembles the double ic with speed, huge soundstage, more depth, layering is superb, it has more effortless tight bass, this cable is so transparently balance with a fresh tone in it, micro and macro  is very good, smooth just right...this just after 10hrs...Vocal is so palpable , Lyn Stanley’s voice is so right and natural on this cable....it’s mind boggling how good Double ic and this cable, I would prefer to audition Teo double ic if I can afford it but I can’t, this starquad is more than enough for me to enjoy the Doug method.....

Celander I almost cancel my order, it took 2 weeks, because Gary told me ,many called in because of flu, wow Iam so glad I did not...it’s worth the wait, ordering one more set.....

By the way I have no affiliation with this company, I found out about this company thru Celander...thanks again

celander

Have you ever discussed the construction of a double XLR cable with Gary?

I did not ask for xlr, I only need rca, but He is willing to do it whatever request I want...

jayctoy, congratulations! Very nice, and motivates me to push into manufactured double interconnect products. 

Currently comparing another set of cables' ICs in both RCA and XLR. So far only the RCA tried, but easily passed my Law of Efficacy in regard to Schroeder Method. This setup is from integrated DAC to amps. Both the integrated DAC and amps allow for XLR, so that is next. I anticipate likewise superb results. 

This is gaining momentum due to real world applicability. This could become one of the more interesting phenomena to appear in recent years regarding cables. 

For those who jump to the end of discussions and do not wish to read previous posts, I repeat the "do at your own risk" nature of the Schroeder Method, and ask that you discuss with your equipment manufacturer. Please do your due diligence. 

Maxima95 , call Gary P I think he will do xlr for you if you decide....very nice guy

Doug without adapters the method is way way much better.. night and day in my system...

My HAVE, Inc. contacts sent me a dual 110-ohm IC assembly terminated with RCA connectors when I ordered a dual 110-ohm IC assembly terminated with AES/EBU connectors. Just sent them an email about it.

Maxima95: They will build anything you want. A dual IC assembly terminated with standard XLR connectors should be viable. They typically need to use a slightly higher gauge StarQuad IC to accommodate all the spliced, paralleled conductors in the connector. Just ask for Gary in sales and specifically ask for the Celander specification of a Dual StarQuad IC assembly. 

Here is the Canare product catalog page for their Canare StarQuad IC conductors:

http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=53

Thank you for the information.

Maxima95: I’ll follow up with a pm to you. 

Many thanks for your help.

Has anyone tried this method with S/PDIF(RCA) or AES/EBU?  Or have any observations on the practicality?  I have a CD transport I still use.

If this has been covered earlier in the thread, I apologize for not looking for it. 

I did one setup with transport (AES/EBU) to DAC and thought it was quite splendid. That's not to say it would be so in every case, but it was a good start. I simply have too many other permutations to put down before expanding in other directions. 

Thank you Doug.

(See my post of 9-25-18, pg 2)
Well I was blown away by using cheap RCA splitters and two sets of ic’s constructed of Duelund tin plated copper 20awg wire with Valab-Star-Tellurium Copper Gold Plated RCA connectors from eBay (eBay seller Valab). I do have on order two sets of Monster solid RCA splitters to replace the cheapies but got impatient and combined the two sets of ic’s into one. HOLLY S---! What a quantum leap in performance. The first thing I noticed after installing the ic’s and booting up the system was clarity and purity of sound. It is so clean. Playing the test files I always use was like hearing different files. So much new information to my ears and all for the better. My speakers (Def Tech Mythos STS towers with powered subs) bass have always been impressive but now they really sound, for lack of a better word correct. I’m hearing my music at a whole different level now. What a wonderful improvement. No voodo nor snake oil just some extra wire.
Thank you Douglas Schroeder

pixelphoto, you're welcome! This is great anecdotal evidence coming in regarding the Schroeder Method. I am told the double cables conjoined versus with splitter are quite a bit better, and this is another instance of it. 

Yeah, this is just good 'ol great fun and discovery. 

Doug ,the one with splitters blue jeans LC 1double ic did very well on my tt to my preamp, the combo Teo Ultra and GC from my Gumby to preamp is good but I prefer the ultra alone, splitters did slow the system a bit, The ultra alone sounds like double ic to me, is excellent cables with very low noise floor...Anyone who would like to try Doug method at your own risk, I will recommend the conjoined ic, less hassle , it’s way much better in my system....music is being flesh out amazingly good, I can’t imagine a conjoin Teo Jr, how good it will be....

Update on my starquad double ic canare, it improves more, after four days it’s fleshing out more music..maybe today I will put it on my other system to see if it will match my other system, this cable for the price I paid 4ft $175 shipped is a give away, I don’t believe HAVe inc, has 30 days free audition....

I did connect it to my vpi tt to jolida 9 Mark 2, it’s way much better than my King cobra aq double ic with y adapters, So I confirm the conjoin is the way to go... speed and articulation is as good while I have it on dac to amp..

I decided to evaluate the recent digital cable HAVE sent to me. The cable is a 2-ft run Dual Canare StarQuad 110-ohm assembly terminated with Canare RCA connectors, wherein the assembly includes two paralleled Canare DA202 IC’s spliced together in the assembly (that is, a Shroeder Method paralleled IC assembly without splitters). My comparator is a 2-ft run stock (i.e., single-run) Canare StarQuad 110-ohm IC terminated with AES/EBU connectors, wherein the cable includes a slightly higher gauge Canare DA206 110-ohm IC. So both digital cables include the same type of Canare StarQuad IC conductor "DNA". See the following links for a description of the two Canare digital cables:

http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=67
http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=66

The test set-up is as follows: CAL Delta CD Transport (output clock jitter at 50psec); test digital cable(s) connected to relevant digital outputs of the Delta; Theta DS PRO Basic IIIa DAC; Dual Assembly Canare audio cable (2-ft length) connecting DAC to Audible Illusions M3A; Teo Audio Ultra (6-ft length) from AI M3A to powered ATC SCM20-2A’s monitors.

I’m hearing even more detail in the complexity of musical presentation with the Dual Canare StarQuad assembly digital cable over the stock Canare StarQuad AES/EBU counterpart. For example, one Radiohead track from Disc 2 of OKNOTOK (#4) include a set of chimes or bells that continuously play throughout the most of the complex portions of that track that I never heard before. On that track, for example, while both cables provided sonic cues to the chimes within the track, the dual assembly displayed greater openness, microdynamics, less smear and more relaxed, organic presentation than the stock IC.

By the way, I had removed my Sonic Frontiers Ultra Jitterbug reclocker from my system before doing any tests. In a slightly different configuration (Teo Audio Liquid Pre passive line stage in place of the AI M3A active preamp), the introduction of the 2 stock Canare AES/EBU digital cables and the SF reclocker introduced smearing into the resultant SQ from the digital signal path, based upon my conclusion of using only one stock Canare AES/EBU digital cable. And I say this with my informed appreciation the Teo Audio passive is a cleaner signal processor than the AI M3A active preamp. The SF reclocker only provided a marginal improvement in jitter reduction (40psec with the reclocker installed vs. 50psec with the reclocker removed). It’s clear the digital cable contributes a lot to the final resultant SQ achieved.

@jaytoy
" I can’t imagine a conjoin Teo Jr, how good it will be.... "

Well it does sound very very good, especially against other cable combinations. This probably in part due to its ability to handle the one big problem the doubling of cable assemblies entails, that is the doubling of system capacitance.

TEO cables have very low capacitance in a standard configuration, and if my reading of the relevant theory is correct, even lower in the doubled configuration. Our assemblies seem by happen-sense to be the ideal signal transfer system for cable doubling ( they retain all the advantages and avoid the one glaring problem ).

Taras22 I suspect the adapters are the one messing up the Teo ultra and GC performance, iam happy how good is the ultra alone.

Taras22 thank you for the Teo  junior conjoin info...

For anyone interested in the HAVE, Inc. products, please understand that they are a custom order house. You order it; you're stuck with it. (No refund-oriented, audition/trial period permitted.) Order from other folks if that bothers you. I would recommend Teo Audio for you in that case.

IMO, assembling a set of paralleled Teo Audio GCII's with splitters yielded a tremendous boost in my overall SQ over single run GCII's. I used the solid Monster products from a China company on Ebay. Perhaps a better splitter would further improve the resultant SQ.

So my HAVE, Inc. contacts sent the correct  2-ft run of Dual Canare StarQuad 110-ohm IC assembly terminated with AES/EBU (XLR) connectors. I compared it against the 2-ft run Dual Canare StarQuad 110-ohm assembly terminated with Canare RCA connectors that HAVE, Inc. sent to me previously. Both digital cables includes two paralleled Canare DA202 IC’s spliced together in the assembly (that is, a Shroeder Method paralleled IC assembly). So both digital cables include the identical Canare StarQuad IC conductor "DNA.” 

Both assemblies sounded very similar, if not identical, in terms of SQ. See my earlier post. 

Celander , my friend told me you can only use 75 ohm on rca  not 110ohm, is there a risk using 110 ohm rca? 

Digital coax connections use 75-ohm cable; digital AES/EBU connections use 110-ohm cable.

In principle, the both of these paralleled assemblies should have lower than optimal characteristic impedance. (To answer your specific question, the dual assemblies should have one-half the characteristic impedance of their single run counterparts.)

In practice, however, both provided better
SQ than a digital cable having the “true” characteristic impedance. I don’t pretend to understand the underlying theory for this result. 

Celander my impression to your response , no risk right, if I will try the rca like you have now, it’s my responsibility to take the risk, like Doug said try it at your own risk.....thank you 

Keep in mind that an RCA connector does not have a characteristic impendance of 75-ohms. Use a BNC connector if you want a connector with a true 75-ohm characteristic impedance. Problem is that most home audio transport and DAC separates have RCA connectors as their S/PDIF coaxial connection. The Canare RCA connectors are quite good for use in 75-ohm coax cables, but they are not true 75-ohm connectors (see the Bluejeans Cable article).

http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=40

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/75ohmrca.htm

Thanks a lot Celander very good info....

@Jayco

   My two Teo Ultra's run with the Schroeder Method using Audioquest RCA splitters ($12.95 ea × 4) yielded noticeably better sound than my single RCA Teo Ultra. I loved the Ultra big step up over previous Game Changer. Trying to Remember exactly, but I would say difference in step up similar from 2 Ultra's using Schroeder Method on par with performance gained moving from Game Changer to Ultra RCA IC. 

Tuffy, I am certain the Teo Audio folks have evaluated their current lineup of IC’s in all permutations. It would be insightful to hear their impressions. 

Tuffy , Iam a Teo Cables fan , I do like their cables a lot, My system consist of Andra Eggleston , monoblock musical fidelity, art audio preamp, schiit Gumby Dac , marantz ah toeb transport, when I tried the GC and ultra combo, it took a while before I realise it was too slow, the speed and articulation wasn’t there. Until Davidten visited , He made a comment that my system is more alive when I switch to vynil, that confirmed my suspicion regarding speed, the moment   I put the ultra alone. Music came alive   Speed is back. Double IC doesn’t always work.i myself Wish the ultra And GC work....

jayctoy, so you are saying that the combination of two different TEO cables in Schroeder Method was not good? I'm trying to understand your comments. This would be the first instance of someone I know who tried using two different cables together in Schroeder Method, and the first time someone said it was not good. 

Please confirm whether I understand this correctly. 

Doug maybe what I mean , when I say Double ic does not always work , I was thinking more of synergy, sorry for the confusion...

Doug double Ic is good but those combo ultra and GC I did not find the synergy , in my main system. The Doug method works on my two vynil set up, and to my Teac dac direct to my Norh mono amps....

Doug as good as the Doug Schroeder method, synergy is required to obtain the musicality and articulation Iam looking for my main system.why at times here at Agon many will share cables are system dependent...One day I would love to try conjoin Teo Jr .Teo Cables are excellent but in my main system with adapters the synergy wasn’t there...

Doug I hope you can convince the audio industry to implement your method, Teo and Have inc does, My starquad canare double ic is excellent, I will try to connect it to my system to see if I will synergies there...

Doug I did put Doug Schroeder Method on its own , so many will see it quickly , originally it’s embedded on the Teo thread, so those who are not interested on the Teo thread will not see it. My intension so many will have the chance to read it Because Iwas already benefited from the Audioquest King Combra combo double ic , before I tried the Teo Combo....

Agree +1

I belong to another audio forum/(cables) and there is a thread started a week or so ago on the Schroeder Method with two members who have actually tryed the Method. The rest are closed minded about it. Some of them seem to think they have all the answers regarding ic's. I feel fortunate I stumbled onto this thread and actually built double ic's and discovered that it works. Keep an opened mind.  

Wow Pixel, glad you are enjoying it, with an open mind.Doug one more happy audiophile😀

Doug onother success from my Yamaha sacd 1000 to my viva integrated, I use Cerious tech graphene ic and Teo GC ic, this combo is musical, fast, transient is there too, I use Audioquest adapters, one has tails, one doesn’t .this is my fourth success , on double ic...

I have evaluated a 6-ft run Dual Canare StarQuad assembly terminated with Canare RCA connectors in place of my 2-meter run of Teo Audio Ultra (single) IC’s between the preamp and powered ATC monitors (see setup below), wherein the assembly includes two paralleled Canare L-4E5C StarQuad audio IC’s spliced together in the assembly (that is, a Shroeder Method paralleled IC assembly without splitters).

Here is the Canare spec sheet:
http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=53

The test set-up is as follows: CAL Delta CD Transport (output clock jitter at 50psec); Dual Canare StarQuad digital assemblies connected to relevant digital outputs of the Delta and into inputs of a Theta DS PRO Basic IIIa DAC; Dual Assembly Canare StarQuad audio cable (2-ft length) connecting DAC to Audible Illusions M3A; Dual Canare StarQuad assembly (6-ft length) from AI M3A to powered ATC SCM20-2A’s monitors. 

Though it’s too early to render a verdict on the Dual Canare assembly, I’m frankly shocked how well it sounds against the outstanding Teo Audio Ultra IC. I’m hearing a lot of the same detail in the complexity of musical presentation, pace and dimensionality with the Dual Canare StarQuad assembly as I enjoy with the Ultra. I would be seriously interested how well a Double Double Ultra sounds by comparison to the Teo Audio Ultra single run IC or this inexpensive Dual Canare StarQuad assembly. 

I haven't read this entire thread, but I wonder why no cable manufacturer hadn't  thought of this method before. Not trying to take anything away from Doug Schroeder, but this doesn't look like rocket science.

Oh the wonders of this hobby.  :-)