12-30-14: Ricred1
I hate this hobby:)! I disconnected my Parasound JC2 and went from the PS Audio Directstream strait into the Parasound A21 amp via balanced cables and it sounds slightly better direct! I tried direct with the PS Audio Perfectwave DAC II and it was terrible... I wish I knew then, what I know now. I could have saved some money. Needless to say, the Parasound JC2 is going up for sale on audiogon! When you get a chance, demo a high quality tube pre in your system and might change your mind. High quality doesn't necessary equate big $$. What fuses are you using in Directstream? Try Synergistic RED Quantum fuses. I believe your DAC uses 2 small 1A slo-blo |
I hate this hobby:)! I disconnected my Parasound JC2 and went from the PS Audio Directstream strait into the Parasound A21 amp via balanced cables and it sounds slightly better direct! I tried direct with the PS Audio Perfectwave DAC II and it was terrible... I wish I knew then, what I know now. I could have saved some money. Needless to say, the Parasound JC2 is going up for sale on audiogon! |
I use a 47 labs Flat Fish transport that is modified with Black Gate caps and an upgraded Super Clock. It is powered by a custom battery ps and sounds superb! I have pics of it in my gallery over on Audio Circle and You Tube, search rodge827 on both to get a good look at it. I can be contacted through both sites to get more pics if necessary.
Chris |
I've owned a number of different CEC Transports and a CDP over the years (although I don't currently own one) and I have always found a special sound do to the belt drive system.
Enjoy... |
Rja -
I look forward to reading about your impressions on the CEC TL3N. This company has been building these outstanding transports for a long time.
Also, tell me about the rest of the gear, including cables/cords, in your system. Keep me posted & happy listening! |
Just bought a new CD transport for kicks, CEC TL3N. Just thought I'd check it out. My first belt drive top loader, very nice. |
I should add, no transport. My next step is to try using a Mac mini and ipad. I need to read a little more regarding the best approach, because the last time I tried using a computer to download music I didn't like it. |
I always like to close the loop when I ask a question. I decided to purchase a Parasound JC2 preamp and PS Audio Directstream DAC. I received both of them a week ago. Improvements, YES; unfortunately I can't tell you what component has had the most impact on the sound. I installed both of them at the same time. |
Knghifi,
Thanks for your response. |
12-13-14: Ricred1
Should I upgrade from the Perfectwave DAC II to the Directstream or keep the Perfectwave DAC II and upgrade my transport from a NAD 565bee CD player to a PS Audio PerfectWave Transport? I just upgraded my preamp and this will be my last upgrade for a long time. Your suggestions are appreciated! My brother upgraded his Perfectwave DAC MKII to Directstream and it was no contest. Also Directstream is more agnostic what's feeding it so probably can't tell the difference between transports. Google Directstream review where several reviewer specifically ask Ted Smith on the design. I'll repeat my suggestion again and also get a Synchro-Mesh reclocker. It has a 30 days money back guarantee so only risk is shipping cost. It sits between your transport and DAC and if the reclocker works as advertised, you should not hear any differences between transports. The LAST thing I would get is a transport. |
Should I upgrade from the Perfectwave DAC II to the Directstream or keep the Perfectwave DAC II and upgrade my transport from a NAD 565bee CD player to a PS Audio PerfectWave Transport? I just upgraded my preamp and this will be my last upgrade for a long time. Your suggestions are appreciated! |
Ray - he is probably just removing veils, jitter and distortion. When you do this, the imaging becomes less diffuse and things seem to "snap" into focus, appearing to relocate. They have not really moved, just focused.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
As a recording engineer, when mixing from multi-track sources I take particular care on where instruments are placed within the soundstage. Regardless of wire, cable, DAC or any other electronics I could never shift an instrument around from 0 degrees to any other place without using my DAW. For the life of me I can't see how this could happen. Imagine Jimmy Page playing his guitar straight in front of you....and then magically....without any movement of source components his sound magically appears 20 feet to the left. He didn't move....nor did his amp...speaker or for that matter the room he was playing in. You have to move the source itself or change the acoustics of the room to get a shift in source placement.
I'm not trying to be a pendant but something is wrong electronically for that to happen. Again. I would check your cables....if you are using balanced cables maybe your right cable has a short and you have essentially lowered the voltage in that channel...thus shifting your image to the left.
It could be something else for that matter....but you really should look into why this is happening.
Best of luck.
Ray |
Nothing is/was wrong with the preamp. I don't have a "new preamp yet"; I'm currently running the PS Audio PWD through the P5. Prior to receiving the new DAC, I was going from my CD player to the preamp. Now I'm going from my CD player via a digital cable to the DAC and from the DAC to the preamp via RCA cables. I won't say all of the changes are due to the new DAC, because I went from a unbalanced to a balanced cable, added the Wireworld Gold Starlight digital cable and changed speaker cables at the same time. I wished I would have changed one component at a time and maybe I could attribute the improvements to one thing. |
Actually, I'm not trying to win. Honestly, there must have been something wrong with your preamp to mess up your soundstage to such a degree...as you describe it, you were almost listening in mono. Since you still have the pre you should plug it back in and check out that it is operating correctly before you sell it.
I have no doubt you are hearing improvements and that your new pre delivers the goods. What I'm questioning is, what was wrong with your prior preamp. |
Raymonda,
Okay you win...I'm not going to argue with you about what I hear in my system. I try to be very careful about not exaggerating my findings. The facts are the soundstage has opened up and there is more spacing between instruments. I look forward to adding the Parasound JC2. |
A properly setup system will never place instruments as radically out of place as you mentioned. Images should never go from center stage to far left. That is not something that cables or equipment will impact to the degree you described.
either something was broken or it is hyperbole. No piece of equipment properly designed and implemented does this, period!
Please review what you have written. If this was actually what you meant you must consider my be point. Otherwise if you believe that a properly functioning piece of equipment is rearranging instrument placement your open to anything. Equipment can improve perceived depth or slightly increase width but an instrument going from 0 degrees axis to 65....well, that is not the way equipment works. 55 degrees to 60, okay....but 0 to anything else is an indication of something seriously wrong. |
I purchased a Parasound JC 2 preamp. I will post my results next week. |
The deal fell through and I still have my preamp. |
11-24-14: Ricred1
My other thought was add a JL Audio sub for now and down the road upgrade my source or preamp. Since you indicated that your P5 preamp has been sold, I assume you are envisioning the possibility of driving your power amp with the balanced outputs of the PW DAC, and the sub with its unbalanced outputs. And as is usually the case with powered subs, the input impedance of the unbalanced line-level inputs of the JL subs is low, e.g., 10K for many or all of them, and IIRC most of them do not provide speaker level inputs. Given that, before purchasing a sub I would suggest asking PS Audio if the balanced and unbalanced outputs of the DAC are independently buffered (i.e., driven from separate output stages). If they are not, adding the sub could very conceivably have adverse effects on the sonics you hear from your main speakers. Regards, -- Al |
Unfortunately I don't have the opportunity to audition a new transport or preamp. My other thought was add a JL Audio sub for now and down the road upgrade my source or preamp. All three options are within the same price range. With the exception of my speakers, I've changed everything over the past two months. Whatever option I choose will be the last change for awhile. |
Nothing is wrong with my system. In addition to the new DAC, I changed my digital cable, speaker cable, and went to a balanced cable from amp to preamp. The soundstage has opened up tremendously. |
If the instrument went from middle to outside the left speaker something is, or was, seriously wrong. A proper set up system regardless of components will never misplace instruments like that. Before you spend another penny you should figure out what is or what was wrong. Calling this an improvement is misplaced. |
Knghifi,
The PWD II is only 2 weeks old. It has pushed my system to a new level. Yes, there is better and/or different, but I'm not willing to play the game. I'll add the PWT and be content for now. |
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I'll make a decision on my next move after I receive the PS Audio PWT. |
Ricred, you seem to listen to music which has a combination of rapid leading edges that need to be handled without intermodulating the treble -- lest they become harsh, and lots of sostenuto in the melodic lines, which instead need mounds of harmonic exposure to sound emotionally involving.
The above, in combination for your need of a well defined three-dimensional space and images,, and a transparent sense of "natural", or '"organic" seems to spell once again the name of the Rowland Capri S2... It can be had with -- or without -- the DAC card.
Others on the thread will have other suggestions... Sonic descriptions in words can go only so far... In the end, you might need to try things out, and see what best fits your musical taste.
|
"I'm assuming changing preamps will take me to yet another level"
It certainly can, but probably not for $2-3K. Good preamps start at ~$10K unfortunately. You might consider a passive transformer linestage. The Music First is very good at around $4.5K.
The fact that driving your DAC direct to amps does not sound better is probably due to either:
1) the DAC does not have low enough output impedance to drive amps
2) the preamp provides a level of isolation between the DAC and amps
3) the volume control technology in the DAC is inferior to the preamp
The likelihood is that the problem is #3.
The best possible of all worlds is to eliminate the preamp without using software volume control. Instead, use a volume technology in the DAC that does not add distortion or noise, such as this:
http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/overdrive-dac
This volume technology is like no other DAC. There are actually no parts added for the volume and no analog circuits being adjusted. No bit decimation either.
The DAC is expensive, but replaces preamp, computer interface and DAC. All you need is a computer, amps and speakers. It recently won a multi-DAC shootout on Audiogon, beating out PWD, Directstream, Mietner MA, Lampizator, APL and others:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1398132150&&&/Absolute-top-tier-DAC-for-standard-res-R
There may be a demo unit for sale soon BTW, at a discount.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Guidocorona,
My priorities are spacing between instruments, imaging,and soundstaging. I want it all done with a neutral, natural sound. The Aerial 7T are very good accomplishing my priorities; therefore I want to maximize their capabilities.
When I added the PS Audio PWD II, my aforementioned priorities improved 30 or so percent. Music that I'm very familiar with had significantly more space and tonality to it. On one CD the lead guitar appeared in the middle, now it's outside the left speaker. My thought process is adding the PS Audio PWT should bring my system to the next level. Why the PWT? I already have the PWD II and it's in my price range.
I'm assuming changing preamps will take me to yet another level. The Parasound P5 performs many functions, but I just need a simple line stage. Why a preamp, because with my current configuration, with the preamp in, I find the music to be more detailed and natural sounding. I've heard significant differences between preamps, that's why I thought that should be the last step. My concern is finding something in the 2-3K range. I always set a range regarding what I'm willing to spend for a specific component.
I listen to Boney James, David Sandborn, Michael Franks, Joe Sample, Jesse J., Najee and many more contemporary Jazz artist. |
Hi RicRed, here are some questions for you...
* what sonic characteristics are missing, or you want to enhance, maximize, or simply modify, through the addition of a preamplifier?
*
In general, what are the most important audible parameters to you?
* What music do you mostly listen to?
Depending on your answers, we might come up with different preamp suggestions.
G. |
I had a PS Audio PWDMKII and it's an excellent DAC. I found the bridge was the best digital input. This was confirmed by several reviews on the PS Audio Direct Stream. The problem is bridge stability requiring frequent power restarts/recycles.
Volume is in digital domain so I prefer using a high quality pre with volume set to 100%.
Aerial 7T are very nice speakers.
If it was my system, I would start replacing your preamp. In your budget, there are many high quality units especially used. VTL, Doshi, Aesthetix, VAC ... Then get the Synchro-Mesh reclocker. It has a 30 days money back guarantee so only risk is shipping cost. If the reclocker works as advertised, it should be agnostic to anything feeding it. |
Ricred1,
the PWT has "very high" sound quality. As others here have pointed out, transports play a major role regarding the overall sound you get from CDs. |
Charles1dad,
I really hope you are correct. Adding the PS Audio PWD II was significant to my ears and if the PWT adds a little bit more I'll be extremely happy. Now trying to find a preamp to complete my system. |
Ricred1,
I believe you'll be happy once you hear the PWT in your system. |
My pictures aren't current, I actually have more room treatment. |
What Sonic difference are you looking to obtain? That would go a long way with recommendations. BTW, you might consider measuring your rooms response and room treatments before spending any more money. That room looks pretty empty and reflective. |
DACs with analog volume control and tube output stages might be better positioned to go direct into amp. I'm thinking products such as Aesthetix and EAR etal. |
I sold my Parasound P5 and ordered a PS Audio PWT. My next step will be a preamp. |
Hard drive is better...imo. transports not as much as other components. And....in most cases, very little. To compare a transport to a tt, arm and cartridge is a far reach. Money would be better spent on other components or software. |
11-22-14: Ricred1
The Parasound P5 is a preamp with a DAC, but the PS Audio Perfectwave DAC 2, sounds significantly better. I don't have a problem with my DAC. I'm trying to find the best way forward. What is the better bang for the buck, new transport or preamp? Again, I want to spend 3-4K? I would keep in mind the possibility that a "better" preamp might, by virtue of presumably being more transparent, bring the sound closer to what you did not like when you tried using no preamp. For that reason among others I suspect that a new transport is likely to be the better choice. Alternatively, I would also give serious consideration to Steve's (Audioengr's) suggestion of his reclocker. Although I have no experience with it, I have heard good reports about the benefits it has provided to at least one audiophile friend whose ears, opinions, and system I particularly respect. Interestingly, also, I note the following statement about the PW DAC II at the PS Audio site: It hasnt escaped us that many of our customers rely on the PerfectWave DAC as their primary music source feeding a power amplifier directly. In fact, that is our preferred method of connection. Just speculating, but perhaps you found inserting your preamp into the signal path to be preferable because its less than perfect transparency is masking the shortcomings of the NAD CDP you are using as a transport. Regards, -- Al |
I just had John Tucker upgrade my Oppo 105 and it is outstanding. One player that does it all. I owned the Ayon CD-5 and the PS Audio PWD MKII and they are not even close to as good as the T105. Something to consider. |
The Parasound P5 is a preamp with a DAC, but the PS Audio Perfectwave DAC 2, sounds significantly better. I don't have a problem with my DAC. I'm trying to find the best way forward. What is the better bang for the buck, new transport or preamp? Again, I want to spend 3-4K? |
Hi RicRed, not all DACs are well suited for direct-to-amp operations... Hence, your mileage may vary.
you can also try a subtly different strategy... Combine DAC and preamp into a single box. E.g. Jon2020 has reported astonishingly good results with his Rowland Capri S2 preamp combined with its DAC card. Total investment just below $4K list. See this short thread:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1413730895&openmine&zzGuidocorona&4&5#Guidocorona |
I connected the DAC directly to the amp and listened for a couple of hours. I strongly prefer the sound with the preamp. With the preamp, the music is simply more musical, detailed, and effortless. Trying to get a home audition of a decent transport to hear if it makes a difference in my system. In addition, I'm going to listen to a couple preamps and compare them to what I hear when I change transports. I'm really trying to determine the best way forward. I only want to spend 3-4K. |
Ricred1, I have eliminated the preamp in my own system since last Winter: currently I have Esoteric X-01 transport via SPDIF into Rowland Aeris DAC.... into Rowland M925 monos via XLR.... into Vienna Die Muzik speakers. The sound is marvellously refined... And not at all edgy. All wiring is Nordost Valhalla II.
Guido |
I'm trying DAC straight into the amp via balanced cables and report my observations tomorrow. Thanks for the food for thought! |
11-21-14: Ricred1
What are the thoughts on removing the preamp and connecting the DAC straight to the amp? As Charles and Rja indicated, this is best determined by trying it both ways. And before reaching any conclusions, you should preferably try both the balanced and the unbalanced connections which are supported by each of the three components. FWIW, though, after looking at the specs and descriptions of the PW DAC II and your Parasound A-21 power amp, and measurements of your Aerial 7T speakers (the sensitivity of which will affect what part of the range of the volume control that is used), in this particular case I see no technical reason for a preamp to be necessary. Whether or not it would be subjectively preferable to include one is another question, of course. FWIW, my own instinct in cases of doubt is to keep the signal path as simple as possible, by not including in it anything that has no clear basis to be included. And if that turns out to be the alternative that is less preferable from a subjective standpoint, to try to determine the reason, and to correct the issue by changing a component rather than by adding a component. Good luck, however you decide to proceed. Regards, -- Al |
Since it apears you play CD's, I also would try the PS Audio transport and use the is2 connection, as Stevechamp suggested. I purchased one for under $1500, and am happy using it with a Yamamoto dac( thanks charles1dad)
I have not tried computer audio, but if it's something you are eager to get into, it seems now would be the time. |
wow some great replies above. my opinion...for what it's worth...is I'd step up the entire digital front end...maybe a used dCS Puccinni...has a pretty good volume control built in. Then down the road a preamp.
I do like a preamp vs digital volume control...but again...in a priority I'd do something like a used dCS Puccini first...get the source as best as you can first. |
Agree with Rja, active preamp vs direct DAC just try both methods in your system and compare. That topic has been discussed it seems a thousand times on audiogon. The answers never change. |
This is variable, some systems sound better with pre while others do better without. Only one way to find out.
I'm currently running DAC direct into amp. |
