Joncourage, you should be very happy with the clear day double shotguns.
They are very good for the money and can compete with some cables costing much more IMHO :) |
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Figured that the LOL crowd would finally make it to the thread. I wonder what took so long? |
Lots of Wiener Wagging going on here! LOL! |
Ya got a great sense of humor. Don't give up so easy. You can't compare Supra with the better SR cables. That's the short answer. You may not like to hear it but that's the truth. If you want to go for the Supras then go for them. In a high end system -- forget about them. You can go to The Cable Company and audition SR. IMHO. |
If I could delete a thread I created, I would have nuked this days ago. Thanks all for helping answer a sincere inquiryI mistakenly posed to a user community I thought would engage enthusiastically in helping a noob, but instead decided it's more important to prove who can piss furthest. Yes, I know there's no "best"; yes, I know everything is system dependent YMMV; yes, I know price is somewhat irrelevant; and yes, I still thought folks might be able to provide their -- subjective -- opinions on the comparative qualities of these cables. At least I know better than to waste my time again in the future. Bravo. |
Listening to loud music is like trying to dodge a bullet when the air is full of lead. Eventually it catches up with most people. It just takes time. Hearing damage due to listening to loud music is cumulative and has been scientifically shown to be irreversible. I'm not outta here. IMHO. |
Musicxyz, and conversely, my hearing is no worse either.
Sabai and Musicxyz, I'm off this thread now.. |
I trained as a classical pianist. Of course, it is hard for many musicians to accept that they have diminished hearing. That's understandable.
Here's a site that is not afraid of discussing this openly:
http://www.hearinglossweb.com/Medical/Causes/nihl/mus/mus.htm
High volume diminishes hearing. This is a widely accepted fact. Oooops. No facts, ma'am. Remember Dragnet? Jack Webb should have said IMHO. But that was in the era before everything had to be politically correct i.e. self-censored.
I have been wearing wax ear plugs (when needed) for the past 35 years and I'm very glad about it. Unfortunately, I forgot them for a Smokey Robinson concert back in the 1980's. I had to walk out because of the high volume. Because I have protected my hearing I am now able to enjoy all the subtleties of the high frequencies -- unlike many of my friends who did to take this simple precaution when attending concerts and who now find themselves hearing pianos instead of triangles. |
Most professional musicians have diminished hearing because of playing for years at high volume. Many musicians have a serious hearing problem. This is a fact. Ooops, facts are not allowed. IMHO. |
My point was simple; everyone can have an opinion and it does not need to be politically correct! I agree with one member on this forum and I appreciate that he was definitive about his cable experience. To be very clear; just because you are a musician, your hearing is no better than anyone else on this forum . |
So Musicxyz, you are saying that all pro musicians are deaf!! You really believe that??? |
Daveyf,I understand your point of view but after working in recording studios and dealing with musicians for a couple of years the one statement I heard consistently from musicians was that they were deaf. This is a forum and my understanding is everyone is welcome to an opinion and this is for you; IMHO. |
Musicxyz, I haven't tested nearly as many cables as you and your friends but I am not surprised at the results you are reporting. There are very few cables I have heard that can reach you on the emotional level.
My system is unconventional in that I run IC's and PC's in series. It's a real mess but I only care about the sound. It consists of Bybee, ASI Liveline and Synergistic Research cabling and "tweaks", for want of a better word. I have found that running cables in series gives a superior result in my system. Where one cable may be very good but not in the excellent zone, two together may produce amazing results. I have discovered this through trial and error. It can be expensive but the results are stunning. I would not be able to go back to a system that uses single cables. |
Musicxyz, you hit the nail on the head. Without the politically correct IMHO after it. I appreciate your comments. I am in my 60's, alas. |
Sabai and Musicxyz, there are many opinions on the sound, or lack of, of various pieces of gear including cables. Sabai puts absolutes into his opinion and insists that because he believes that he hears a better sound that this will be a universal for all listeners. Are there better cables than the Supra's, absolutely, BUT as Audiofeil correctly pointed out, there is no absolutely no correlation between price and the sound of the product. My point is that just because Sabai says it is so, does not make it so for everyone. BTW, Musicxyz, I am a pro musician and I suspect I have a little idea as to what a live artist sounds like in my home, so making inept assumptions about other people isn't productive or accurate, just conceited-again IMHO. |
Sabai: rather than arguing with people who do not respect your honest point of view, just enjoy the emotion of your system and understand that not every person will have the opportunity to hear what a live artist really sounds like in their home. Some people do get what you are saying and respect that you have an absolute opinion rather than being politically correct. |
A posting that does not include the popular IMHO is not ipso facto a confused posting. Confusion must be exhibited in the content and reasoning for the posting to qualify as being confused. My posting was not confused at all. On the contrary. Strong statements are often found less acceptable on these forums than derision from the LOL crowd. I find this very odd.
Do you mean to say that anyone with normal hearing would prefer a LoRad on a high end DAC in a high end system than a Hologram D or an ASI Liveline and that the latter would sound worse than the former to most people's ears? Do you mean to say that anyone making this statement without the popular IMHO is confused? |
I am also in my 50's and have blind tested cables with five other guys for the past 30 years. We have a scoring system and several reference systems that we test on. We have tested over 400 different brands and what Sabai is saying is correct for the most part. Once you have experienced a truly serious cable than it becomes an emotional experience rather than a listening experience. There are very few cables that are capable of creating emotion and I have heard none that inexpensive. I am not saying inexpensive cables sound bad but it is like buying a Toyota, than Honda, than Nissan, you are just moving sideways until you go out and get a Porsche; all of a sudden you are emotionally connected to the car! We have found less than 10 brands that can actually create emotion in your system or in other words put you in the recording studio with the artist. To be honest most cables are average on their best day but there are again a very few cables on the market that once experienced you just cant live without and how do you put a price on emotion? |
I didn't see IMHO after any of Audiofeil's postings. Is this requirement only for those who disagree with him? IMHO. |
Your thinking is very confused. You are talking at cross-currents. Preference is not correlated to quality. What an owner prefers has nothing to do with what he would choose if he were presented with more choices. If an owner prefers Supra but has not heard Synergistic Research or ASI Liveline or another high end cable then he has not chosen the best cable for his system -- if his system is truly high end -- because he is unaware of the better choices out there. A deep knowledge base is indispensable to making informed decisions. Most people make choices that are uninformed -- to one degree or another. IMHO. |
Sabai, I think you are the one that is confused. You keep making these absolute comments regarding your opinions. Problem is that you forget to add IMHO. Your posts are full of these absolutes, which while they may apply to you, they do NOT necessarily apply to anybody else's experience...something you would do well to remember, at least IMHO. |
Your thinking is very confused. You are talking at cross-currents. Preference is not correlated to quality. What an owner prefers has nothing to do with what he would choose if he were presented with more choices. If an owner prefers Supra but has not heard Synergistic Research or ASI Liveline or another high end cable then he has not chosen the best cable for his system -- if his system is truly high end -- because he is unaware of the better choices out there. A deep knowledge base is indispensable to making informed decisions. Most people make choices that are uninformed -- to one degree or another. |
There is absolutely no relationship between expensive cables and what an owner will prefer. All cables are system and listener dependent
To keep spewing that "more expensive is better" smacks of complete inexperience.
But you do it well. |
I cannot say what will work in your system because it is your system and I have no way of knowing. Having used the Supra Sword speaker cables and interconnects and the LoRad and compared them side by side with some high end cables I note that the Supras have a lean, 2-dimensional quality that disqualifies them -- quickly.
If you want to call Supra high end go ahead. But what matters is the sound -- not the label. If you take a high end Synergistic Research or an ASI Liveline and A/B with the Supras you will click on SELL CABLES on Audiogon to get rid of the Supra. It's as simple as that. If the Supras work in your system then that's good. But if you put a really high end cable up against the Supras then your opinion might change -- quickly. For instance, patch in a Hologram D or an ASI Liveline in place of the LoRad and see what happens. It will only take a few seconds of the first track for your ears to decide. |
Well, I'm still interested in some more opinions. Thanks for clarifying your's Sabai.
My interest in these two cables stems from a decent number of positive input on both, here on Agon "what cables do you recommend" threads, and positive trade publication reviews.
Basically, I'm interested in replacing my AQ Rockefeller, since several system upgrades make me feel the rest of my system has outgrown them.
I'm decided on a trial of the Clear Day dbl shotgun, and wanted input on 2 or 3 others.
I'm not looking for "what is the best" cable, I realize there is no such thing. Just which cables have potential for good synergy in my system, and, opinions on the sonic characteristics behind the recommendations.
Unfortunately I don't have unlimited funds to keep cycling through test drives so I'm trying to leverage all the experience out there to narrow the field. |
Sabai, That's a pretty strong opinion against the Supra's. Can we all be certain that you have actually heard the Supra's? I ask this, as I wonder if the hype and the price difference is "clouding" your opinion.:0(
It is VERY easy to condemn a product based on bias and inexperience, OTOH IF you have personally listened to both products and dislike one to the extent that you dislike the Supra's- well so be it....you are entitled to your opinion.
( Please remember that it is YOUR opinion and NOT necessarily a FACT of LIFE).
I have NOT heard the Supra Sword, BUT I do use the Supra Lorad 2.5 power cord with Wattgate plugs and it beat out the Shunyata Taipan Alpha Helix by a mile! In my system and IMHO....YMMV |
People who are happy with Supras have not experienced top cables in a top system. |
Put it this way. Some cables are worse than others. |
I am neither badly mistaken nor inexperienced. Supra are low-end cables. Period. They do not belong in a comparison with high-end cables. Their success is a result of marketing -- not a result of their sonic attributes. The best components will be brought down to the lowest common denominator in the cable chain. Try pairing some high end components with Supra cables and see what happens.
Some SR cables are excellent -- in the active lines. This is system dependent. Not only the cable business but also the component business is loaded with salesmanship and snake oil. Everything in life is loaded with salesmanship and snake oil. What else is new? |
I'd also like some feedback, as I have read good things about the Supra Sword. |
And there should be no comparison as no cable is "better" than another.
Cables are system and listener dependent. This is why many systems are wired with cables that are modestly priced. There is, at best, only a minimal positive correlation between cable price and performance.
I've been doing this for 52+ years and used both very expensive and extremely inexpensive cables. The cable business is loaded with salesmanship and snake oil.
At the end of the day, it's the combination of the system's components and listener's preferences that dictate the best cables for him/her.
If Sabai's inference is SR Tesla is somehow superior to Supra, he is both badly mistaken and inexperienced.
IMO |
Clarification Sabai? Are you saying that one is so much better than the other, or that they're so sonically different it's impossible to contrast them against each other in terms of specifics? |
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