So with high hopes of glorious vinyl sound I purchased the Audio Note M6 phono and the AN S-2 L SUT. The pair replaced my M3 Line and a Lehman Black cube phono stage head amp. Well it didn't work. It sounds like my laptop speakers. No bass, very tinny and almost no gain. Not even listenable. Is the AN S-2 SUT that poor a match for the Denon DL-103? I am pretty sure I have read that others have used this combination successfully. Even my local dealer said it would be a good match.
That's what I thought too. It should not sound this bad. AN don't publish the specs on these. It shouldn't do any harm if I just plug right into the phono and see what the difference is. Any other trouble shooting tips.
Is the SUT new? If so it needs some significant playing time to break in, and it could easily sound bass shy in the early hours. Also, if it is new, you presumably bought it from an AN dealer in which case you should discuss the problem with the dealer. Perhaps he can loan you another SUT to try.
To absolutely clear, I understand that you run the leads from the tonearm into the primary side of the step up transformer, then the output of the step up transfer feeds into the MM input of your preamp.
Is there enough gain from this configuration? Are you listening mostly close to full volume on your volume control setting or at the opposite end of the volume control range? This might tell us something about whether you have problems with too little gain or possible overload of the phono stage.
If you try bypassing the use of the step up transformer (going straight from the tonearm into the MM input), there will probably be insufficient gain, but otherwise, you don't have to worry about doing any harm. If the sound is better, you have an issue with the step up transformer. In the sound remains the same (albeit softer), then you might have a problem with the MM phono stage or the rest of the preamp. If the preamp sounds good with other sources playing into the other inputs, that would me the phono section is suspect. How does the M6 sound with other sources?
If you can take the M6 and step up transformer to your dealer, you can try it there to see what things sound like.
Apart from gain/overload issues, most step up transformers sound reasonably good even when there is not a theoretically ideal match in terms of cartridge source impedance. A really bad, thin sound suggests a failure somewhere and not just a mismatch of components.
Thanks very much for your reply. I discussed it with my dealer who are Audio Note dealers. It would seem there is a problem somewhere. Like you said they confirmed that the combination is not the ideal one but it will sound quite good when working properly. Connection is TT to SUT input SUT output to M6 phono input.
M6 line inputs all work fine.
Next I am going to try plugging the TT into the M6 phono to see if the sound is different albeit quieter.
The Audio Note ANS2/L has a switchable impedance of 3 & 12 ohms. The 3 ohm input is for the Audio Note IO cartridge.The 12 ohm input is for cartridges with an internal impedance of 3-4 ohms.
These inputs are both mismatches with the Denon 103 which has an internal impedance of 40 ohms and will result in a sound bright, thin and no body, exactly as you have described in your opening post. They are also mismatches with the Denon 103R which has an internal impedance of 14 ohms.
Even the ANS2/H is problematical. It is designed for cartridges with internal impedance 3-4 ohms and 15-20ohms. The Denon 103R ( 14hohms ) will work with the ANS2/H but the Denon 103 (40 ohms) will not work.
In fact none of the current product AN transformers will work with the Denon 103 ( 40 ohms ).
Your cheapest solution is to either get your dealer to replace the ANS2/L with the ANS2/H AND buy a Denon 103R
The so called... Plonkers.... have been selling, servicing AN and building ANK personally, not just the dealership for decades. They are very well respected in the industry for their knowledge and integrity.
What you should have said was personally, you disagree with their opinion instead of calling them names.
The 103 and AN S-2 is not a perfect combination but it is an economical one to start with. The S-2 is a good SUT that will allow me to upgrade MC's and reap the benefits when I choose.
Update. I now have my SUT and M6 phono at the dealership and they are checking things out. I will post when I have them back.
Is the Denon a DL 103 or the 103R? Dover is correct on specs. It looks like the 103 at 40ohm is not a good match with either the L or H version. The 103R should work well enough with the H and be marginal with the L. So in reality if you have the 103R it will be ok at best. If you have just the 103 then I doubt it will ever sound that good. Sorry......
Dear PK, In one of the early and now deleted posts, did you not say that you were advised (presumably by your dealer) that the DL103 and the ANS2 should work well together? And now you are saying that your dealer most recently advised you the match is not ideal. If I've got it right about your initial interaction with them, then perhaps Dover's criticism is fair. They led you down the garden path, as it were, and in my mind they ought to make good on correcting the mismatch, again assuming you originally chose the ANS2 per their advice. But perhaps my recollection of your earliest statement is incorrect. (I read this thread a few days ago, before all the deletions. It seems to me the moderators were excessively zealous in deleting so many posts, because I don't recall any nasty or unfair comments worthy of being trashed.) In any case, I think we can say your mystery is solved: Your SUT and the DL103 are not well matched, and for that revelation you can thank Dover. What nonplussed me is the notion that AN will not release the specifications on the ANS2. That seems preposterous for a component that is useless, unless it can be properly matched to cartridge and phono stage. I suppose they market it as what you should use if you buy specific ones of their own AN cartridge offerings. Thus the end user can be kept in the dark, like a puppy dog.
The M6 has a failed coupling capacitor. By Audio Note's own admission they have had problems with copper foil caps of these years and have now gone to a redesigned cap to avoid this. I have recently purchased an M2 phono for a future 2nd system while the M6 is waiting on parts. The M2 has a similar phono stage to the M6..... It works very nicely with the Denon 103 MC and the AN S-2 SUT. So as several have suggested quite strongly the issue was that the Denon 103 and the AN S-2 would not work together... you were very wrong. I would suggest you base you comment on actual experience next time. Some even went so far as to say my trusted dealer had sold me down the river. The funny thing is, as mentioned in my posts, I didn't buy the M6 or the SUT from my dealer. Hmmm.. In addition. I have decided to replace all the old capacitors with the updated AN capacitors to avoid any possible future problems.
When the M6 arrives home I will update the thread for re confirmation.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
