I have noticed more dropouts with tidal in the past few weeks. I suspect, with so many people sheltering at home, that their servers are much more heavily loaded than normal. Have you noticed dropouts from local content instead of streaming? |
The following explanation is based on my understanding of how the Denafrips DACs work from reading their documentation and other postings. I could be wrong in my understanding of the issue.
The Denafrips DACs use an internal reclocker when the DAC is connected using SPDIF or AES, which uses a small FIFO to buffer the PCM samples before they are clocked out using the internal clock to the R2R DAC.
SPDIF (and AES/EBU) assume that the source controls the clock, but as we all know this can introduce jitter resulting in poor performance. By buffering the data and reclocking it, the DAC can all but eliminate the issues with jitter, but this only works well if the source clock is close enough in frequency to the DACs reference clock such that the FIFO can handle the timing differences for the duration of the stream.
If the source clock is operating at a significantly different frequency from DAC clock, or the time between resetting the buffer is too long, the FIFO will either overflow or run out of samples and you'll get a drop out or stutter.
The iPurifier is doing essentially the same thing, but it probably has a deeper buffer than the Denafrips DAC, and/or is smarter about how it uses its buffer. It also likely has a better clock than the Node 2i (or at least is matched better to the DACs internal clock) so the DAC is not having the same issue buffering the data in its internal reclocker.
There may be ways to improve the problem in the DAC's firmware by being smarter about how the FIFO is used (starting the reclocking sooner or later depending on whether the source clock is faster or slower than the DACs reference clock), or perhaps there is a way to increase the FIFO size (if it's implemented in RAM) if the clocks are significantly off.
Assuming this is the issue, this problem will not occur when connecting the DAC over USB since the DAC is in control of the timing in this case instead of the source.
But I also think in @snafujg's case, it's more likely an internet/Tidal issue since he didn't have problems streaming local content and the internet has seen significantly increased streaming demand over the past several weeks due to so many people sheltering at home.
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Last week, I decided to take the plunge and order a Terminator to replace my Yggdrasil (A2 Gen5 USB) that I've had in my system for a little over two years. I've had a chance to compare the Yggy with a few other DACs (similar and lower priced than the Yggy) and to my ears and in my system, the Yggy always came out the clear winner.
I've been listening to my system a LOT more in the past several weeks since I've got my home office set up in the same room as my 2-channel system. I've really been enjoying what it can do, but like most audiophiles, I'm always looking for ways to improve it.
There wasn't anything in particular that I felt was missing with the Yggy. On good recordings, it sounds spectacular. Perhaps the only thing that bugged me was that lower quality recordings were considerably less enjoyable, and there is a lot of classic rock that just doesn't sound that great. I'm not sure if the Terminator is going to help, but we shall see.
The Terminator arrived yesterday afternoon, so I don't have many hours on it yet. I'm hesitant to give any impressions at this point since it is barely warmed up, let along broken in. But right out of the box, I noticed more solidity and impact in the bass, even from my office chair listening position. I have not done any critical listening yet.
I'm hoping to get some feedback from current or previous owners. I currently have my DAC connected to my Bryston BDP-2 over AES/EBU. I have a NUC8i7 running Roon ROCK in another room. I'm considering putting the NUC in an Akasa fanless case with a good linear PS and connecting it via USB to the DAC. This would require investment in a good PS (which I will probably do anyway) and a good USB cable.
Has anyone tried both AES (or SPDIF) and USB and found USB to be better with the Terminator (or other Denafrips DACs)? |
I've now had my Terminator for about two weeks and it's been playing more-or-less constantly since then (about 300 hours). Based on what I've read, I still have a ways to go before it reaches peak performance.
At this point, it is sounding very good. Compared to my Yggdrasil A2, it is comparable or slightly better in every regard. On excellent recordings, it sounds fantastic. On lesser recordings, I still notice a little congestion and slight harshness. The biggest improvements are more energy in the lower frequencies, and more 3-dimensionality (is that a word?) to the sound stage. The presentation is very similar to the Yggdrasil, so I think if you like the Yggdrasil, you'll probably be quite happy with the Terminator.
I do have one issue though. Connected over AES/EBU, I am noticing an occasional hiccup (skip) in the music. I am pretty sure that this is because the Denafrips DACs buffer the digital data in a FIFO and reclock it using an internal clock. This helps to reduce jitter, but if the source clock and internal clock aren't perfectly matched, eventually the FIFO will overflow or run out of data. I am using a Bryston BDP-2 streamer with the upgraded audio board, so I think this is a fairly decent streamer.
This issue has occurred when playing local files as well as Tidal streaming, so I don't think it's a Tidal issue. I'm using a NUC running Roon ROCK as my server, with a wired ethernet connections throughout.
This isn't a huge problem, in that I've only noticed this skip maybe a half dozen times since I've had the DAC and I've been listening 7-8 hours a day since I'm working from home.
As I'm typing this, I remembered that I adjusted the settings in Roon to do sample rate up-sampling (which does slightly improve the sound) about a week ago. I don't remember hearing the skips before then. This would, of course, put more stress on the FIFO buffers inside the DAC since there are a lot more samples to deal with.
Certainly one solution to this is to switch to USB input, but my Bryston doesn't have USB output, so I'll have to decide how to proceed. |
Alvin told me that DACs shipped since Nov 2019 already have this new board. This upgrade applies to DACs purchased before Nov 2019.
Over the last couple days, my Terminator seems to have jumped in sound quality. Maybe it's just the music I've been playing, but it is really sounding nice.
And I haven't noticed any hiccups in the past couple of days (listening all day while I work from home). Perhaps it was only specific recordings which were causing the problem, but I think I'm going to stick with my Bryston streamer for the time being. |
I switched from an Yggdrasil Analog 2 and right out of the box, the Terminator had more authority in the bass, particularly the mid/upper bass. The mid-range and high end was a little rough at first but continued to get better as it broke in. I've not got 1000 hours or so and it's sounding fabulous. |
I'm approaching 1000 hours on my Terminator and it's really sounding great. I'm using Roon ROCK on a fanless NUC through an EtherRegen to a Bryston BDP-2 (upgraded audio card) connected to the Terminator through AES3.
I've found using Roon sample rate conversion to Max PCM Rate (power of 2) with the Precise, Minimum Phase filter, and the Termy set to OS (NOS off) gives me the best sound.
I haven't experienced any hissing or ringing, but did have an occasional skip or hiccup (maybe once or twice a day). This was after I modified my NUC to use an internal SSD drive instead of a USB drive, but before I added the EtherRegen. I haven't noticed any hiccups on the past few weeks, so I'm not sure if it was related to the changes I made, or just a coincidence.
I'm intrigued by the Gaia, but would probably only consider this if I could replace my Bryston and switch to using USB from the NUC to the Gaia and then I2S to the DAC. I'm be interested to hear how this works for people. |
+1 @erik_squires . I was thinking the same thing. But it's his ears and his money. If he likes the sound better that way, that's his choice. |
@luisma31 - yes, I agree that having a good DSD section along with the excellent R2R PCM functionality makes the Terminator an excellent "complete" solution no matter your content type.
While I have very little DSD content in my own collection so I haven't done a lot (read none) of A/B testing of DSD content, it makes sense to me to keep PCM as PCM, and DSD as DSD, since this DAC does an excellent job with both.
I did experiment with converting PCM to DSD just for grins (and since this seems to be a big part of PS Audio's approach), but I preferred the results sticking with PCM. The DAC does a very good job with standard Redbook material (with no alteration before the DAC), but I slightly prefer the sound using Roon to do power-of-2 upsampling. |
@73max, @divertiti - I think I have experienced the same thing. The first couple times this happened, I had assumed it was a bad file being streamed and I just skipped past it. After recently reading this thread, I decided to look at what was playing when it happened today and noticed that Roon had switched to a different album streaming from Qobuz at 192Khz, 24 bit. Restarting the song, it played perfectly.
I recently decided to try using a direct USB connection between my NUC (running ROCK - essentially the same as the Nucleus+) and my Termi instead of using a streamer. I think I heard this problem before switching to the USB connection, but I'm not completely sure.
I also have a Bryston BDP-2 connected via AES3. I'm trying to decided whether to keep this since I now have my Roon server running on a fanless NUC (with LPS) next to my equipment.
I added Qobuz to the mix only a few weeks ago, so it could have started with this. I have very few high-res downloads, so prior to Qobuz, I was using RIPed CDs and Tidal and had a lot less switching between sample rates.
So I'm not sure if this is just an issue with USB, or a broader issue. I'm also not sure if it is a Roon problem or a Terminator problem. My current configuration is using Roon power-of-2 upsampling and NOS turned off on the DAC. |
